100 réponses à ce sujet

[Tested-Faythe]

The Adept wasn't nerfed. It was changed.

Think about it a little bit. The entire combat system's tactical depth comes from the Barrier/Armor/Shields system.  Some things work... some things dont.

Now imagine you've made a adept, and you could completely ignore and bypass any and all of those. It would be as easy as spamming singularity, and subsequently warp. No tactical depth involved. The Adept would become vastly overpowered. I mean OV-ER-POW-ERED.

A second point, to compliment my first: People said, in regards to the first Mass Effect, that the soldier was the most boring class, because all you had to do as activate immunity, point, shoot- Repeat. The same effect would have happened to the Adept had they not gone down the road that they did. I for one, am pleased.

The Adept was my first class in  ME2, My favorite in ME1 (BY FAR), and is still in my top 2 for ME2.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Powers like Pull and Throw shouldn't be rendered ineffective simply because someone has armor or a shield up, though. Reduced damage, yes, but enemies should do more than stagger when they're cast. Humanoids should float inches off of the ground like the four legged enemies if they still have defenses up, and they should flop over if Throw is cast. No reason why they should stagger and shake it off.



The damage done should stay the same, the way they react to those two powers should be changed.

[Taura-Tierno]

I think it should really depend on the level of the biotic skill that is used. A heavily shielded and armored Krogan should be able to shrug of a level 1 throw, but should definitely be knocked backwards - if only a little bit - by a heavy throw. But they shouldn't be thrown backwards like crazy, as they are without any kind of protection.



The same should go for all powers, unless they are specifically meant to affect something, i.e. a power that should only affect flesh, should be completely stopped by shields. But not something general like throw, pull or shockwave.

[tetracycloide]

Played on insanity. Spammed Singularity. Subsequently spammed Warp. Other options ineffective. No tactical choices. Uses for pull, shockwave, or throw to few. Why take them? Limits tactics. Limits builds. Original's crowd control overpowered, yes. Traded overpowered for boring. Pigeonholed.

[D4rk50ul808]

Well my experience has been that with a good team of biotics joining you in the fight, it becomes just as overpowered as the first game. Shockwave is the most underrated skill in the game apparently. I think the only thing I didn't use much was Pull because I had Singularity.

[krylo]

tetracycloide wrote...

Played on insanity. Spammed Singularity. Subsequently spammed Warp. Other options ineffective. No tactical choices. Uses for pull, shockwave, or throw to few. Why take them? Limits tactics. Limits builds. Original's crowd control overpowered, yes. Traded overpowered for boring. Pigeonholed.

Doctor Solus?

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

I think it should really depend on the level of the biotic skill that is used. A heavily shielded and armored Krogan should be able to shrug of a level 1 throw, but should definitely be knocked backwards - if only a little bit - by a heavy throw. But they shouldn't be thrown backwards like crazy, as they are without any kind of protection.

The same should go for all powers, unless they are specifically meant to affect something, i.e. a power that should only affect flesh, should be completely stopped by shields. But not something general like throw, pull or shockwave.

I agree, and I meant to bring up those points in my original post.

[Zhaocore]

tetracycloide wrote...

Played on insanity. Spammed Singularity. Subsequently spammed Warp. Other options ineffective. No tactical choices. Uses for pull, shockwave, or throw to few. Why take them? Limits tactics. Limits builds. Original's crowd control overpowered, yes. Traded overpowered for boring. Pigeonholed.

Good god doctor 

[Starbiter]

Only things adepts need are to have barrier baseline instead of useless shockwave (honestly is so bad) and to have singularity do significant damage to shields (note i just mean damage shields and not lift the target until shields are gone).



Do those two things and then adepts are good to go without being to strong

[Dezhem]

Having powers flat out do nothing against shielded/armoured/barrier'd enemies was a very bad move. There should have been alternate effects if defenses were present, like mentioned before.



For example, an enemy with Shields wouldn't be Lifted more than a few inches, an enemy with armor couldn't be knocked over easily and an enemy with a kinetic barrier would have its field weakened by biotic attacks.

[Roxlimn]

Inches? It's a game, people. There are no inches in the game. There are only pixels. At most, you could argue that they have some kind on meter distance scale, but nothing on the level of fine distance measuring as inches.



What is meant, I'm sure, is that the proposal is that higher level Pull should Pull defended guys, but not actually lift them out of cover.



I'm fairly sure that that's brazenly overpowered. Pull has a base cooldown of 3 seconds, and a base duration of 5 seconds. Clearly, none of you people who are proposing changes have even tried to use Pull to advantage.



If a level 2 Pull with a duration of 7 seconds is combined with with a cooldown rate of 2 seconds (after biotic bonuses), then right off the bat, an Adept can lock down 3 enemies per battle, around cover, regardless of defenses. That takes half the combat's enemy firepower out - more if you focus on the elites. If you only have 3 enemies in the battle, then it's frigging waste of time. None of them are going to pose any danger to you apart from the possibility of one-shotting you if their damage was cranked high enough, so that "battle" isn't really a battle - it's just a practice of seeing how fast you can unload bullets on stationary targets.



Having insta-kill control powers do nothing to defended enemies is good. It means you actually have to think about doing away with the defenses before you use your insta-killers.



And don't no one here talk about enemies having only 20% of their hitpoints in Health on the higher difficulties. I've been playing Hardcore, and based on gunfire observations and power ratings, that's obviously and nearly universally untrue. The only enemy that can claim to have that low of a fraction of Health is the YMIR Heavy Mech. Most enemies have a significant fraction of HP in Health, and the Vorcha for sure have most of their HP in Health on Hardcore.

[Jonp382]

tetracycloide wrote...

Played on insanity. Spammed Singularity. Subsequently spammed Warp. Other options ineffective. No tactical choices. Uses for pull, shockwave, or throw to few. Why take them? Limits tactics. Limits builds. Original's crowd control overpowered, yes. Traded overpowered for boring. Pigeonholed.

Hahaha, I loved Mordin. And I agree 100%.

[vhatever]

Maybe when shields and barriers make enemies completely immune to bullet damage, you might have a point.

[miltos33]

In ME1 the adept was an overpowered god, while in ME2 is a powerful and well balanced class that encourages tactical gameplay. Now that I got used to the changes, I think that a well built adept is still more powerful than a vanguard or a sentinel.

[vhatever]

Adept in ME1 wasn't anymore overpowered than vast majority of the other classes. What a idiotic comment.

[vhatever]

Adept in ME1 wasn't anymore overpowered than vast majority of the other classes. What a idiotic comment.

[LoweGear]

I'm not really seeing the uselessness of Shockwave in my playthroughs for some reason... I don't play Adept, but whenever I have Jack on my team, her Shockwave makes blasting enemies into cliffs and overhangs so easy, and the fact that it's an area spell means it can even be used against armored enemies - and this is on hardcore.

[Soruyao]

vhatever wrote...

Adept in ME1 wasn't anymore overpowered than vast majority of the other classes. What a idiotic comment.

Just because the other classes were overpowered too doesnt mean the adept wasn't.   Every class needed nerfing for insanity to actually be a challenge.

Also: Your face is an idiotic comment!    OH yeah! I went there.

Modifié par Soruyao, 10 février 2010 - 12:50 .

[vhatever]

Yes my overpowered sodier and infiltrator in ME1 are really, really feeling less overpowered in ME2, Sorulamo.

Modifié par vhatever, 10 février 2010 - 01:09 .

[Hathur]

If you play on Insanity as an adept, you'll find the class to be one of the best for that difficulty... only outdone by the Sentinel.



By mid game and especially end game, you can get the cooldown on Warp to about 2 seconds with appropriate skills and upgrades... and a maxed out warp is the fastest way to kill most enemies on insanity.. especially collectors. Even my infiltrator can't kill enemies as fast as a properly designed adept.



On insanity, enemies health bars aren't meaningless smears to be wiped out in 1-2 seconds of gunfire like on the other difficulties... so it's actually worthwhile to use throw, lift, slam etc once you remove enemy armor / barrier / shields.



But yeah, on anything below Insanity, you don't need those skills cus enemies have so little health it's better to fire 2-3 bullets into em to kill em rather than take the time to use a biotic... but on insanity where their health can take time to bring down, biotic powers become very useful.

[Soruyao]

vhatever wrote...

You my overpowered sodier in ME1 is really really feeling less overpowered in ME2, Sorulamo.

It is less overpowered.  It can actually die sometimes now.   Immunity > adrenaline rush.    They have to try harder now than they used to, boogerface.

[noru18]

Player adept vs NPC adept (Samara)

NPC sure wins. Better ability, better appearance.

Modifié par noru18, 10 février 2010 - 01:12 .

[Kittykat1984]

actually...based on how biotics suposively work, having shields up makes sense for why they wouldn't work on a shielded foe. Not on an armored foe but shields would just block out the mass effect field as it approached. Kind of like squirting water into a swimming pool. is the swimming pool gonna really be effected?

[FlintlockJazz]

krylo wrote...

tetracycloide wrote...

Played on insanity. Spammed Singularity. Subsequently spammed Warp. Other options ineffective. No tactical choices. Uses for pull, shockwave, or throw to few. Why take them? Limits tactics. Limits builds. Original's crowd control overpowered, yes. Traded overpowered for boring. Pigeonholed.

Doctor Solus?

I was thinking the exact same thing!

[Recnamoken]

Ever thought about that the Engineer was overpowered in ME1? AI Hacking was very strong and very useful. Add a pistol to that that you can use like an ultra precise Assault Rifle with the Skill and you have no problems killing everything in mere seconds. Yes, some classes were nerfed, because most of them were ridiculously overpowered. ME2 is a lot more balanced and i like the feel of the balanced classes. That was one of two things i disliked in ME1, it was to easy and the goddamn friggin POS Mako.

edit:
@tetracycloide
Nice Salarian impression.

Modifié par Recnamoken, 10 février 2010 - 01:25 .