19 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabresandiego]

Assuming potions are not allowed, which class/build wins?

The obvious choice would be mage with arcane warrior specialization. If you dont finish them with your spells, you finish them off in meelee combat. You can wear the heaviest armor and wield the best weapons with great proficiency. You can even heal yourself if you take any damage. This is a strong pick

A not so obvious pick is a warrior with templar specialization. With this class you have a ranged stun and can wear armor that allows you to have 100% spell immunity. Each attack drains your opponents mana, which means that a pesky arcane warrior will eventually lose all of his sustains and healing abilities. Its down to a 1on1 battle which the warrior should be able to win with his combat abilities and sustains.

My last pick is a dexterity based rogue with stealth. You cannot hit what you cannot see, and even once you do see them their dex is so high that you will constantly miss. This class may beat a warrior 1on1 due to its extremely high defense rating, although its lack of armor and magic protection may be its demise.

So what do you think personally would win 1on1 no potions in this game?

[Random70]

Ok, what the hell...



A couple of assumptions:

1) No Pets. It's not really a mano a mano duel if some ranger brings his menagerie along.

2) No traps: Again, kind of defeats the purpose of a duel.



1) If said battle is taking place in a wide open area, I'm going with a rogue archer. With room to maneuver, stealth + long range attack would be very tough to defeat.



2) If the battle is taking place in a ring, I'll go with a 2H templar/reaver



Against AW: When going against a 100% spell immune opponent an AW is reduced to a feeble melee fighter w/ good AC. Even with a heal spell has no chance against a real warrior.



Against S/S Warrior: Bash and Pummel all day long if you want - I'm running Indomitable. Your high defense will be defeated by Perfect Striking, your high AC will be sundered. No way can your weak single hand attack keep up with a 2-hander.



Against DW Warrior: Your stuns and knockdowns don't work and mine do. That will most likely be the deciding factor. I should be able to put you away before I run out of stamina.



Against DW Rogue: Pray that your paralyze rune procs on your backstab attempt or you'll be dead before stealth cools down. Otherwise I'll knock you down (Pommel Strike) or paralyze you (Frightening Appearance), defeat your defense with Perfect Striking and then demolish you with Sunders and called crits. And don't even think about Dirty Fighting - I'm Immune.



Against Rogue Archer: In a small area you don't have the real estate to play tricks with stealth + range. Better hope that AoS you fire from stealth wins the battle immediately otherwise see DW Rogue. Not even high defense from dex combined with defensive fire and suppressing fire will save you from Perfect Striking.

[Sabresandiego]

No consumables is what I should have stated, rather than just no potions.

I think pets should be allowed, although that does make ranger quite powerful.There are probably alot of balance quirks and game bugs that we arent considering on paper that might make the real situations alot different when played out. For example, this game engine doesnt allow you to hit someone in meelee combat if they are constantly running away from you. Pretty dumb I know, but it means you can avoid meelee combat indefinitely unless you decide to engage.

Stealth may be stupidly powerful when used with arrow of slaying. Then again a mage will defeat any class that doesnt have considerable resistance or immunity. And finally warriors can be 100% spell immune, 100% knockdown and stun immune, and gain 100% chance to hit with precise striking. And dont forget warriors can use archery as well.

I think a ranged attack is a must due to the game engine limitations.Without spell immunity mage would be the hands down winner due to ridiculous spells like crushing prison and forcefield. This perhaps means that being a rogue is an autoloss to an arcane warrior (although 70% spell resistance may be enough to win). Tough call

I think it comes down to warrior archer with templar vs rogue archer with ranger. Actually, stealth + pet would easily win that fight for the rogue, but the warrior would do better against mages with spell immunity.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 11 février 2010 - 02:33 .

[Sabresandiego]

Anyone else have a viewpoint on what 1v1 PVP would be like in this game? (consumables disallowed)

[Sidney]

Mages are the obvious choice since something like crushing prison/paralysis/sleep can disable their foe and the cast time is nil. Once their foe is crippled they can take their time and dismantle them.



Archers with the Scattershot + AoS can get a similar effect although AoS might not give you the instakill but the massive damage should put you far enough ahead of the curve to take down anyone.



Anything that is straight melee is gonna get whacked by the above two because they can disable and horribly wound the melee before they get into range - again their are some counters but talking in generalities.

[Sabresandiego]

Mages are easily the most powerful class if you dont factor in spell resistance. But if you do it changes the game completely.



Another quirk is that melee alone cannot be used because its impossible to hit a moving opponent. You need to have pinning shot in order to be able to slow them down enough to get in range, or some other snare.

[Abreen]

It's an absurd question. Apples and oranges.



Like so many other games, the classes are not balanced against each other. The classes are balanced to work together against computer controlled monsters that make decisions instantly and execute moves instantly.



There is no comparison and no correct answer.



oh! and 1v1 is not PvP!

[Sabresandiego]

1v1 is PVP by definition. PVP means player vs player. 1v1 is 1 player vs 1 player. 1v1 is therefore PVP. Are many games balanced for 1v1 PVP? No they arent, but that doesnt make it not pvp.

[Random70]

Abreen wrote...

It's an absurd question...

Nah, it's just a theoretical exercise. You know, maximizing your strengths, compensating for weaknesses, etc.

[Sabresandiego]

This thread is just for fun, so feel free to add your constructive input. We all know the game isnt designed with pvp in mind.

[shree420]

Clearly the mage if spell resistance is not a factor. 100% spell resist, 2H is the best choice.



But how about Shapeshifter mage, Swarm form? Provided the mage can get it off before the 2H engages and kills him, the mage might have a chance with low hit rate and hit from mana. Or Bear/Spider form with Overwhelm - cannot be resisted. Difficult to know without a test. Of course, if 2H with 100% SR starts off next to mage, no chance.



Haven't played Shapeshifter myself, just theorizing.

[Random70]

m14567 wrote...

I think the dwarven dual wielding rogues would win most consistently. Simply because they can get 100% spell resistance so mages are dead.

Any rogue/warrior can achieve 70%+ through gear even without dwarf/templar (except archer). That, combined with balms and, in the warriors case, high hitpoints would seem to make mages easy prey for either of these classes. Oh, wait, we're talking no consumables, right? So no balms?  Even with that, the mage has an uphill battle here.

m14567 wrote...
Against warriors they can use stealth and get a couple of backstabs in and so warriors are dead. Even if warriors try to kite, a dwarven dual wielding rogue probably has high enough dex that he can use a bow to do decent damage. They can also get a 100 physical resistance to pretty much mitigate any warrior knockdown or stun ability.

A couple of points....
1) At most the rogue is only going to get in two hits before the warrior can turn around. Even with good dice rolls, armor pen, and runes that is most likely less than 200 damage - which won't kill a warrior. And at this point the rogue is toe to toe and 6-8 seconds away from stealth cooldown. It is, of course, a different story if a paralyze rune procs.
2) Frightening Appearance checks against mental resistance, which a high dex rogue is probably lacking.
3) Unless you've put points into CON (and why would you?) a level 25 rogue with Lifegiver has 300 hp. Conversely, a single sunder attack from a 2-hander is going to hit for ~200 - even assuming that neither of the hits is a crit. If both hits crit, the fight is over right now, otherwise a follow up sunder or mighty blow will end it.

The only way I can see a rogue coming out ahead here is to backstab, immediately run away and wait for stealth to cooldown. I wouldn't put $$ on this strat, however.

Modifié par Random70, 11 février 2010 - 07:08 .

[Random70]

m14567 wrote...
Most dex based rogues have defense in the 170-180 range, that will be hard for a two hander to get consistent hits on.  2h usually have crap for defense so the rogue will have no problem hitting.  From what I've read and seen, rogues seem to have the pure dps crown firmly on their heads. There are some vids that show rogues killing in 5-6 seconds certain humanoid bosses that take 2h about 20 seconds.

Try this next time you come up to the Cauthrien encounter with your 170+ defense rogue: Kite her into one of the side rooms and wait until she lights up Perfect Striking. Now engage her and see what happens.

[Random70]

m14567 wrote...

So why not kite her when you see her activate perfect striking? It only lasts 15 seconds and has decent cooldown.

Just so. Merely pointing out that once a rogue's defense has been compromised they are not terribly robust. 
But to get back to the PvP, the 2-hander will probably lead off with frightening appearance which is very difficult to resist against. They also have the aura of pain ability which may well end stealth, negating backstabs (haven't tested this personally).

[Sabresandiego]

Aura of pain should technically prevent a warrior from being backstabbed. That is unless the rogue is able to make it inside the aura and land backstabs before the aura ticks (I believe the damage ticks once every 2 seconds). That would just be luck. Most likely the rogue will be un-stealthed from the aura of pain, so the rogues best bet is to use arrow of slaying from stealth. This ability followed by pinning shot should win the fight.

So far, I think dwarven archer rogue ranger would be the most powerful 1on1 class. Stealth + Arrow of Slaying + 100% magic immune + pets is basically gg to everyone.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 12 février 2010 - 12:16 .

[Sabresandiego]

2 Hand Templar/Reaver Warrior with arrow of Slaying comes in second place in my opinion. You lose stealth and pets, but you gain a ranged stun, backstab immunity from aura of pain, a fear with frightnening presence, and perfect striking.



Few questions though. What is range on frightening appearance? How often does aura of pain tick? Can a stealthed rogue use his pets while he remains stealthed? Do any of his pets have overwhelm or other overpowered abilities? Whats to prevent a rogue from wearing massive armor just like a warrior?

[Sabresandiego]

Is there any stat that improves your ability to detect stealth?