93 réponses à ce sujet

[Massadonious1]

Someone divided by zero.

[Talogrungi]

Barker673 wrote...

I agree. Because we are likely going to only be controlling Shepard and making choices (which fleet to send in: Rachni, Alliance, Geth etc.) to attack one certain Reaper, they will serve as a distraction while Shepard and his team sets up a dark energy doomsday device and set it off. 

Except ofcourse something goes wrong and someone has to stay behind to manually detonate it, and the only way to do that is physically set it on a manual collusion course for Harbinger and Shepard has to decide whether one of his crew or himself does it. I can see it now 

Well, my Shepard has already punched a reporter and headbutted a krogan.

Next step, crash a manually driven doomsday missile into a reapers face?

If this happens, I demand that scottish engineer to with me, to deliver the epic last words of the entire ME series: "See you, Harbinger? Take tha' yer scunner!"

Modifié par Talogrungi, 16 février 2010 - 10:08 .

[krylo]

Lordambitious wrote...

Perhaps the reapers are intending to prevent the unrestricted use of Dark Energy Manipulations via Eezo to prevent the acceleration of the expansion of the universe. Once the universe reaches a certain point in its expansion, gravity, the weak and strong nuclear forces will no longer be able to hold things together, first galaxies will fling apart, then star clusters and nebula, then individual systems, stars will prematurely super nova, as gravity will no longer be able to hold them together, then planets will be ripped apart, then molecules and atoms will fly apart. Universal entropy will reach a maximum, and all motion will cease as the very fabric of space will be shredded. maybe the reapers found a way to counter cosmological expansion or reverse universal entropy, and they need to prevent the over-use of mass relays and eezo, so once a galactic civilization reaches it's apex, the destroy it, "ascend" its strongest member species to reaper status, and wait for the next civilization to rebuild, allowing for a galactic "cool down"

Consider this: The Mu Relay was the only relay to link to Ilos, serving as a bottleneck into that and other connected systems, meaning it was probably a highly used relay, and we know the star of the system it was in went Nova.

Mass Relays use mass effect fields to create virtually "mass free" corridors in space that span light years, and we know from the codex that anything in a mass effect field will have its mass either increased or decreased.

Stars are held together by gravity, which is determined by the total amount of matter/energy in a given volume of spacetime. if the star loses too much mass (as can be exampled by a star being eaten by a black hole companion) its gravity will no longer be able to counter the nuclear reactions inside it and it explodes.

Both the Mu and relay and the Haestrom Relay orbit(ed) stars.

If two relays activate and a star happens to be in the "mass free" corridor, its mass will be altered slightly, if temporarily. Perhaps enough abuse is able to destabilise star systems and cause stars to prematurely Nova, and the reapers are simply trying to prolong their own survival by guiding subsequent species down known technological paths and thus control the actual stellar evolution of the Milky Way.

If this were true it'd be easier, faster, and more intelligent for them to just destroy all the mass relays except the citadel and pop in to wipe out any civilization that rediscovers relay technology, as oppossed to waiting until they nearly have everything figured, and have been using the technology for tens of thousands of years to stop them.

Modifié par krylo, 16 février 2010 - 10:09 .

[Tisiphne]

Barker673 wrote...

I agree. Because we are likely going to only be controlling Shepard and making choices (which fleet to send in: Rachni, Alliance, Geth etc.) to attack one certain Reaper, they will serve as a distraction while Shepard and his team sets up a dark energy doomsday device and set it off. 

Except ofcourse something goes wrong and someone has to stay behind to manually detonate it, and the only way to do that is physically set it on a manual collusion course for Harbinger and Shepard has to decide whether one of his crew or himself does it. I can see it now 

But you get a way out, because Liara, being able to reproduce with all species, is able to become pregnant with a baby reaper, which will distract the reapers while the entire team escapes to safety. Then Liara vanishes never to be heard of again...

Also, you will have to upgrade your various fleets with gems iridium, gold platinum, and crafting materials element zero, or they will be worthless in the final battle.

[Abirn]

Amethyst Deceiver wrote...

i think they are setting up dark energy to act as a deus ex machina for ME3

Is it still a deus ex machina if they introduce it before the final part of the trilogy?

[Thompson family]

Tisiphne wrote...

Edit: I bet the Bioware team reads these forums and giggles.

Mighty right on that, I'm sure.

[DirtyVagrant]

It's nothing, don't worry about it, it's not alluding to anything... just let the Reaper harvest come as it should and you won't have worry about such silly things...

[Jigero]

Dark Energy is actually the void, all the black space between stars and astral bodies is Dark Energy and it's the 2nd major force in the universe. Gravity and Dark Energy are always in opposition. We did a study a few years back, As we all though that the universe is expanding due to the Big Bang so we figured that other galaxies that are moving away from our own must be slowing down, But when we measured their progress we noticed they where not slowing down at all but actually speeding up and moving away. This is due to Dark Energy. Dark Energy is anti Gravity, Gravity is created by bodies of mass and it pull things toward it and slows it down, but Dark Energy it's created by the void and pushing things away and speeds them up. The reason when you leave a body of mass you feel "no gravity" is because of dark energy. You actually still being acted upon by gravity but dark energy is canceling it out so space in between is neutral. The reason Galaxies hold together is due to the gravity well of the super massive black hole at the center.

[Kerberus88]

Talogrungi wrote...

Creston918 wrote...

That said, yeah, the Dark Energy hints were perhaps a tad overdone, but it could just be a red herring to throw us off. All we know for sure is that Shepard will need SOMETHING Deus Ex Machina-like in order to stop/defeat/banish the Reapers, since they're way too powerful to confront in any fashion.

Are we sure about this bit?

I mean, Sovereign was badass, and a lot of people are assuming that each member of the reaper fleet will be equally as badass, but is that supported by the evidence?

The Reapers conquer by stealth; they sieze control of the Citadel and lock down the Mass Relay system, allowing them to completely prevent any form of organised galactic defense .. they are then able to systematically clear out each solar system while meeting minimal resistance.

That kinda suggests that they don't want to risk an all-out battle against the combined forces of an allied galaxy, and the logical conclusion is that this is because it's a fight that they might not win.

Given the nature of the ME game mechanics, I don't think that the ending will be simply decided with an epic space battle, the final fight will almost certainly be "Shepard + 2 saves the day! With Assault Rifles!" and I'm pretty sure that Dark Energy will play a part.

Perhaps ME3 will be about building some giant dark energy doomsday device and luring the Reaper fleet within the blast radius, or something.

Finally!! Someone else that has realized that cutting off supply lines and systematically seeking and destroying isn't a powerful move, but a smart one. I've said similar things to what you have right here and been chewed out in other topics. At least someone else on this forum has a sense of tactics.

[przemichal]

It would make COMPLETELY NO SENSE if using the relays could in any way destabilize dark energy and make it harmful (and the Reapers are going to not let that happen). Why? SIMPLE: Because mass relays were actually created by the Reapers so that the civilisations may develop "along the paths they desire". Do you really think that Reapers would create those relays because they wanted to protect the galaxy from their destructive power?
Stupid.

Modifié par przemichal, 16 février 2010 - 09:35 .

[That Confused 1]

This story: http://en.wikipedia....f_Distant_Earth Should be a required read by people over this matter. The issue with the star that is suffering from Dark Energy pre-dates the creation of the Geth and is too new of a situation to be involved with the Reapers directly as the star started to decay in the time line roughly 400 years before Mass Effect 2's start.



In the novel I linked to, Humanity creates a new form of technology that (in theory) is strong enough to not only escape the incoming galactic implosion but to kick start a new "big bang" and ride out the event given if Humanity survives that long. The Reapers/Old Machines have given near mystic reasons to the harvestings deeming it, "accesion" to escape something they deem worse than physical extinction by their hands.

[przemichal]

That Confused 1,

but it is clearly said in the game that the Reapers were involved in the Rachni Wars (somehow, by their agents probably). The Reapers might as well been messing with this Haestrom star.

I honestly think that Dark Energy will serve as a plot device. Luring the Reapers into certain system - then blowing it up, just as someone said. Best guess? This system will be Sol.

[Lordambitious]

krylo wrote...

Lordambitious wrote...

Perhaps the reapers are intending to prevent the unrestricted use of Dark Energy Manipulations via Eezo to prevent the acceleration of the expansion of the universe. Once the universe reaches a certain point in its expansion, gravity, the weak and strong nuclear forces will no longer be able to hold things together, first galaxies will fling apart, then star clusters and nebula, then individual systems, stars will prematurely super nova, as gravity will no longer be able to hold them together, then planets will be ripped apart, then molecules and atoms will fly apart. Universal entropy will reach a maximum, and all motion will cease as the very fabric of space will be shredded. maybe the reapers found a way to counter cosmological expansion or reverse universal entropy, and they need to prevent the over-use of mass relays and eezo, so once a galactic civilization reaches it's apex, the destroy it, "ascend" its strongest member species to reaper status, and wait for the next civilization to rebuild, allowing for a galactic "cool down"

Consider this: The Mu Relay was the only relay to link to Ilos, serving as a bottleneck into that and other connected systems, meaning it was probably a highly used relay, and we know the star of the system it was in went Nova.

Mass Relays use mass effect fields to create virtually "mass free" corridors in space that span light years, and we know from the codex that anything in a mass effect field will have its mass either increased or decreased.

Stars are held together by gravity, which is determined by the total amount of matter/energy in a given volume of spacetime. if the star loses too much mass (as can be exampled by a star being eaten by a black hole companion) its gravity will no longer be able to counter the nuclear reactions inside it and it explodes.

Both the Mu and relay and the Haestrom Relay orbit(ed) stars.

If two relays activate and a star happens to be in the "mass free" corridor, its mass will be altered slightly, if temporarily. Perhaps enough abuse is able to destabilise star systems and cause stars to prematurely Nova, and the reapers are simply trying to prolong their own survival by guiding subsequent species down known technological paths and thus control the actual stellar evolution of the Milky Way.

If this were true it'd be easier, faster, and more intelligent for them to just destroy all the mass relays except the citadel and pop in to wipe out any civilization that rediscovers relay technology, as oppossed to waiting until they nearly have everything figured, and have been using the technology for tens of thousands of years to stop them.

yes, but the reapers are trapped in dark space, the void between galaxies, the only way for them to get back without using a relay would be to power up their own ftl drives and make a hard burn for the milky way, which even at their own immense power levels would take decades, possibly centuries. Not to mention the fact that mass effect cores accumulate a charge that must be grounded into a planet's electromagnetic field or it will discharge into the hull, "fusing bulkheads and frying all systems" and since there are no planets or discharge stations that far out, they would fry before reaching the galaxy the old fashioned way. that and they seem to utilize the cycle of destruction to build their own numbers by genocidally raping the currently dominant species, and so perhaps consider the situation a double victory for themselves.

[Nizzemancer]

Alot of people who haven't read the codex here...

Biotics is the manipulation of dark energy, considering that everyone and their mother is a biotic it's safe to say that the topic of dark energy isn't all that unusual..

Modifié par Nizzemancer, 17 février 2010 - 02:10 .

[addiction21]

Just a sidenote The Reapers ARE NOT ON A 50,000 YEAR CYCLE.

50,000 years is just the span of time from the last time they paid the galaxy a visit.

Sovereigns purpose was two fold. FIrst to monitor the races that pop up and their technological progress and the second to start the invasion when the "fruit was ripe".



I would be highly upset if they use it as a Deus ex to end the threat of the reapers with. "Oh look biotics and the manipulation of dark energy is the Reapers Achilles Heel"

[Bron Avery]

Dark Energy, its serious business.

[atheelogos]

Barker673 wrote...

 I know it's been brought up before on the forums, but after doing a really thorough playthough (My first was a bit of a speedrun, I had a lot of time restrictions) I've noticed a lot of examples of dark energy coming into play.

First, with Gianna Parasini stating that a ton of her investors are apparently seeking Dark Energy information and how to utilise it properly or something. 

Secondly, with the Sun on the Haestrom/Recruiting Tali mission aging to fast because of suspected Dark Energy inside it. I think there were other cases, but these are the only ones I can think of right now.

Couples with the speculation flying around that the Reapers come to our galaxy every 50,000 years in order to purge the galaxy of sapient life to SAVE the Universe from destroying itself, because the manipulation of Dark Energy/Mass Effect fields/Biotics is actually destroying the universe. If that is the big plot twist revealed in ME3, I am going to rage.

Not only did forumites come up with (They also came up with the Illusive Man being Harbinger, for example) but it's such a blatant cheesy story element that I'm really hoping BioWare stays away from this. Thoughts?

I was wondering this myself, but I guess we'll have to wait until ME3 or an exspansion comes out to explain it.

[atheelogos]

Barker673 wrote...

 I know it's been brought up before on the forums, but after doing a really thorough playthough (My first was a bit of a speedrun, I had a lot of time restrictions) I've noticed a lot of examples of dark energy coming into play.

First, with Gianna Parasini stating that a ton of her investors are apparently seeking Dark Energy information and how to utilise it properly or something. 

Secondly, with the Sun on the Haestrom/Recruiting Tali mission aging to fast because of suspected Dark Energy inside it. I think there were other cases, but these are the only ones I can think of right now.

Couples with the speculation flying around that the Reapers come to our galaxy every 50,000 years in order to purge the galaxy of sapient life to SAVE the Universe from destroying itself, because the manipulation of Dark Energy/Mass Effect fields/Biotics is actually destroying the universe. If that is the big plot twist revealed in ME3, I am going to rage.

Not only did forumites come up with (They also came up with the Illusive Man being Harbinger, for example) but it's such a blatant cheesy story element that I'm really hoping BioWare stays away from this. Thoughts?

Also don't forget what Veetor said. He mentioned dark energy when he was talking about the collectors.

[Pauravi]

LtRadczek wrote...

Isn't dark energy what is used for biotic powers and the mass relays?

Is it?  I never saw it defined that way.
Dark energy, in modern terms anyway, is simply a name for an effect that we see -- namely the acceleration of the universe's expansion.  We don't know what causes it, but we certainly see its effects.

Biotics and mass relays use something called, of course, the Mass Effect.  I always hypothesized to myself that it was just a way to manipulate the Higgs field (the hypothesized field created by the Higgs boson that gives objects mass/inertia).

[Pauravi]

Lordambitious wrote...

yes, but the reapers are trapped in dark space, the void between galaxies, the only way for them to get back without using a relay would be to power up their own ftl drives and make a hard burn for the milky way, which even at their own immense power levels would take decades, possibly centuries.

I really don't think it would take that long.  They don't say how far away they actually are, but even if they were, say, 1/3rd of a galactic radius outside the Milky Way, they could make it in a couple years if you assume that their FTL drives can propel them a bit faster than human tech.  Your typical vessel dows about 12 light years per day.  If the Reapers can do, say 50% better (a conservative estimate, IMO), then they could do about ~13,000LY in 2 years time, which is more than 1/4 of the way to the galactic core from the edge.

We don't really have any good idea of what they're capable of, nor the sort of time and distance they need to overcome, which gives them the leeway to write the story however they want.

[That Confused 1]

przemichal wrote...

That Confused 1,
but it is clearly said in the game that the Reapers were involved in the Rachni Wars (somehow, by their agents probably). The Reapers might as well been messing with this Haestrom star.
I honestly think that Dark Energy will serve as a plot device. Luring the Reapers into certain system - then blowing it up, just as someone said. Best guess? This system will be Sol.

Not that cut and clear with the Rachni Wars with their involvement.  What is stated is how the Rachni have ancient genetic knowledge of Reaper existance given via brood mothers, which gives suspect that the Rachni weren't Reaper pawns but a species isolated out of the Mass Relays by choice and developed ultra-aggressive defesnse responses in each Hive to thrawt off assumed Reaper slaves..  If you read the story I suggested, you will find that Reapers have no interest in destroying stars prematurely as this hinders organic harvesting which makes Dark Energy and Dark Matter far more suspect to be the tools of something the Reapers "warned" about and why they must  give "accesion" to organic life to escape the laid out, "doom" of organics.  Harbinger speaks in riddles of a greater threat than the Reapers. 

In the story I detail, the universe (let alone our own Solar System) is failing faster than expected, and Humanity develops technology to escape the destruction and kickstart a new "big bang." after the death of the universe at the hands of Dark Matter.  The Reapers seem to be culling organic life to index each civilization as to survive the coming death of the Universe, which is given manifestion via the rapidly decaying star.

Modifié par That Confused 1, 20 février 2010 - 08:43 .

[Lordambitious]

Pauravi wrote...

Lordambitious wrote...

yes, but the reapers are trapped in dark space, the void between galaxies, the only way for them to get back without using a relay would be to power up their own ftl drives and make a hard burn for the milky way, which even at their own immense power levels would take decades, possibly centuries.

I really don't think it would take that long.  They don't say how far away they actually are, but even if they were, say, 1/3rd of a galactic radius outside the Milky Way, they could make it in a couple years if you assume that their FTL drives can propel them a bit faster than human tech.  Your typical vessel dows about 12 light years per day.  If the Reapers can do, say 50% better (a conservative estimate, IMO), then they could do about ~13,000LY in 2 years time, which is more than 1/4 of the way to the galactic core from the edge.

We don't really have any good idea of what they're capable of, nor the sort of time and distance they need to overcome, which gives them the leeway to write the story however they want.

the point remains though that until they reach a planetary system ( tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of light years away) they have no where to ground and discharge their mass effect cores. either way they would burn out en route. otherwise, why even have the citadel relay in the first place?

[That Confused 1]

And thousands of years is enough time for Humanity and other alien races (with subtle esponiage) to rework Reaper IFF protocols for Mass Relays to reprogram the Relays to tear apart any ships using Reaper IFFs just as the Omega-4 Relay ripped apart any non-Reaper IFF's.

And I want to point out that destruction of Stars and entire Solar Systems that can sustain organic life does not match the motives or agenda of Reapers, which is to collect organic Life (and as we've seen) create more Reapers.  Planets that resist the Reapers get orbital bombardments, not their stars blown to hell.  This is to allow the planet the prospect of giving rise to a new Organic species to collect and further add to their numbers. 

Modifié par That Confused 1, 20 février 2010 - 08:49 .

[Talogrungi]

Pauravi wrote...

LtRadczek wrote...

Isn't dark energy what is used for biotic powers and the mass relays?

Is it?  I never saw it defined that way.
Dark energy, in modern terms anyway, is simply a name for an effect that we see -- namely the acceleration of the universe's expansion.  We don't know what causes it, but we certainly see its effects.

Biotics and mass relays use something called, of course, the Mass Effect.  I always hypothesized to myself that it was just a way to manipulate the Higgs field (the hypothesized field created by the Higgs boson that gives objects mass/inertia).

Yup.

Copy/Paste for convenience:

"When subjected to powerful electrical currents, element zero releases dark energy that can be harnessed to create mass effect fields"

[Nallski]

For all the theories about luring the reapers to a star and making it go supernova it is made clear by Kal'Reegar that it is "too slow an inefficient to be a weapon." He also is pretty sure the Geth are not causing it either. Beyond pointing out that the phenomena pre-dates the Geth, as it is the reason Haestrom was colonized to begin with.