93 réponses à ce sujet

[That Confused 1]

True Nallski, the decay rate (while rapid) is not remotely fast enough to impose itself as a weapon to spacefaring races. But in terms of Reapers, the star's decay rate seems to be more in line of an area of denial weapon or a "salt the lands." tactic against the Reapers by something else unseen at this time.

[Pauravi]

Talogrungi wrote...

Yup.

Copy/Paste for convenience:

"When subjected to powerful electrical currents, element zero releases dark energy that can be harnessed to create mass effect fields"

Ah nice, thanks   I didn't remember that.  Perhaps the Higgs boson only interacts with dark energy fields

[Moleculor]

"When subjected to powerful electrical currents, element zero releases dark energy that can be harnessed to create mass effect fields"

Which implies that someone's using eezo to pump dark energy into the star.

Which implies that someone is pumping dark energy into that star that's dying.

Which implies someone is directing dark energy at that star.

Which implies someone has a purpose for directing dark energy at that star.

Whom do we know that probably has an element zero core large enough to generate enough dark energy to influence a star? It's not the geth, since it's been happening for centuries. And it's gotta be at long range, since no one else is in that system.

Thus, I suspect that the 'anti-Citadel', the other end of the Citadel relay that currently rests in darkspace a few hundred meters from the Reaper fleet, is currently focusing a tightly controlled lens-esque effect of dark energy at the core of that star in an attempt to alter its state.

For what purpose? Well, does anyone here know how to create a mass relay? For all we know, it involves a process much like this one. For all we know, the glowing energy at the center of each relay is actually a eezo-influenced star, and the metallic bits around it are the relay itself. The star is the 'brakes' and the metal bits are the 'catapult'. To reach the other end, you just need the 'star' portion.

The star dying to dark energy undergoes the transformation, and voila, the Reapers can reorient the anti-Citadel on this new endpoint and warp in. Once they're there, they're stuck, as there's no metal bits to work as a catapult (but the heretic geth were probably building that bit) to get them back out of the galaxy, but they can fix that once they're here.

Modifié par Moleculor, 20 février 2010 - 09:07 .

[ZennExile]

Here's what happend. One of the interns at Bioware was sitting at home burnin a big fat bowl of Canadian... appatite enhancer... and he/she saw this special on the Science channel called Big Bang Theory and remebered the end of it where they talk about dark energy. That same intern was like "omg guys I got this sawheat idea. Let's use dark energy as the theory on that (takes massive bong rip) you know planet thing where the star is burning the robots."

[Talogrungi]

Moleculor wrote...

"When subjected to powerful electrical currents, element zero releases dark energy that can be harnessed to create mass effect fields"

Which implies that someone's using eezo to pump dark energy into the star.

Which implies that someone is pumping dark energy into that star that's dying.

Which implies someone is directing dark energy at that star.

Which implies someone has a purpose for directing dark energy at that star.

Whom do we know that probably has an element zero core large enough to generate dark energy? It's not the geth, since it's been happening for centuries. And it's gotta be at long range, since no one else is in that system.

Thus, I suspect that the 'anti-Citadel', the other end of the Citadel relay that currently rests in darkspace a few hundred meters from the Reaper fleet, is currently focusing a tightly controlled lens-esque effect of dark energy at the core of that star in an attempt to alter its state.

For what purpose? Well, does anyone here know how to create a mass relay? For all we know, it involves a process much like this one. For all we know, the glowing energy at the center of each relay is actually a eezo-influenced star, and the metallic bits around it are the relay itself. The star is the 'brakes' and the metal bits are the 'catapult'. To reach the other end, you just need the 'star' portion.

The star dying to dark energy undergoes the transformation, and voila, the Reapers can reorient the anti-Citadel on this new endpoint and warp in. Once they're there, they're stuck, as there's no metal bits to work as a catapult (but the heretic geth were probably building that bit) to get them back out of the galaxy, but they can fix that once they're here.

There could also be a Dark Energy superweapon hidden inside the star milennia ago by a former civilization to prevent discovery by the Reapers. Same type of weapon that took down the Derelict Reaper and left a big honkin' groove in Klendagon, perhaps?

[Pauravi]

Lordambitious wrote...

the point remains though that until they reach a planetary system ( tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of light years away) they have no where to ground and discharge their mass effect cores. either way they would burn out en route.

That's why I said that we don't really know what they're capable of.  Perhaps they have technology that allows them to get rid of it in some other way?  It isn't unthinkable.  You're applying the limitations of everyone elses technology to the Reapers, which isn't necessarily a safe assumption.

otherwise, why even have the citadel relay in the first place?

I can think of a few good reasons.

For one, there is the whole "blitzkrieg" aspect.  Immediately destroying the seat of power for all galactic civilization ensures that they cannot mount an effective defense.

It also means that they will have access to all information about colonies and such, so that they know where to hunt everyone down.  If organics are given a chance to hide or destroy that data before they can get to it, it makes their chances of hunting down everyone much smaller, and their genocide becomes both more difficult and less certain to succeed.  Even having all the Protheans records it took a long time.. decades, or even centuries, for them to clean house, and they still missed Ilos.

Another problem is the practical aspect of energy expenditure.  It may be more risky for them to expend so much energy travelling to the galaxy;  it leaves them more vulnerable to counterattacks by organics, especially if they know that they're coming (as is almost certainly the case if they stopped them from using the Citadel relay).

There is any number of reasons that they might prefer it, even if the actual travel is not truly a problem to accomplish.

Modifié par Pauravi, 20 février 2010 - 09:10 .

[That Confused 1]

Talogrungi wrote...

Moleculor wrote...

"When subjected to powerful electrical currents, element zero releases dark energy that can be harnessed to create mass effect fields"

Which implies that someone's using eezo to pump dark energy into the star.

Which implies that someone is pumping dark energy into that star that's dying.

Which implies someone is directing dark energy at that star.

Which implies someone has a purpose for directing dark energy at that star.

Whom do we know that probably has an element zero core large enough to generate dark energy? It's not the geth, since it's been happening for centuries. And it's gotta be at long range, since no one else is in that system.

Thus, I suspect that the 'anti-Citadel', the other end of the Citadel relay that currently rests in darkspace a few hundred meters from the Reaper fleet, is currently focusing a tightly controlled lens-esque effect of dark energy at the core of that star in an attempt to alter its state.

For what purpose? Well, does anyone here know how to create a mass relay? For all we know, it involves a process much like this one. For all we know, the glowing energy at the center of each relay is actually a eezo-influenced star, and the metallic bits around it are the relay itself. The star is the 'brakes' and the metal bits are the 'catapult'. To reach the other end, you just need the 'star' portion.

The star dying to dark energy undergoes the transformation, and voila, the Reapers can reorient the anti-Citadel on this new endpoint and warp in. Once they're there, they're stuck, as there's no metal bits to work as a catapult (but the heretic geth were probably building that bit) to get them back out of the galaxy, but they can fix that once they're here.

There could also be a Dark Energy superweapon hidden inside the star milennia ago by a former civilization to prevent discovery by the Reapers. Same type of weapon that took down the Derelict Reaper and left a big honkin' groove in Klendagon, perhaps?

Or it could be a "Forerunner" solution to the Reapers:  Force a star to go supernova to destroy all possible planets that can produce sapient life to flourish to starve Reaper agendas.

[DRACO1130]

I think that the answer lies within the nature of the Reapers themselves - Sentient Machines that REAP organic life every 50 thousand years - that 'created' the Mass relays to 'shape' organic life into the pattern they wished it to follow - recall Virgil on ILos - the reapers Harvested Protheans - enslaving colonies - stripping planets bare of ALL resources - we know now that they altered protheans into collectors via introduction of technology to replace biology - the reapers immortality originates from biological life - they incorporate biological life in some manner that enables their own immortality - enabling them to continue and perpetuate themselves in dark matter space outside the galaxy - also recall that we learned that each reaper is a 'nation' unto itself - incorporating all the organic life essences it has consumed ? the Human reaper creation effort being undertaken in ME2 - Harbinger believed it to be Humanity's genetic destiny - that it was a positive thing. Consider, had the HUMAN reaper been completed - composed of all the liquefied humans - what of the indomitable human spirit ? Pure speculation I freely admit, but intriguing nonetheless - Why a human shape ? because a Human had, possibly for the first time EVER, interrupted their cycle - thus bringing humans to the forefront as both enemy to be feared and valuable asset to be incorporated.

My personal belief is that ME3 wil repeat the pattern already twice established - Shepard will make the choice - In ME1 - council lives or dies - in ME 2 collector station (which foments HUMAN development of REAPER technology) endures or gets destroyed - in ME3 - choice - Humans become the "NEW" crop of reapers, to endure for another 50 thousand years or instead break the cycle and destroy the reapers and LOSE ALL MASS RELAY TRAVEL ABILITY - consider your galaxy map and examine how FAR apart are even the closest systems - Shepard MUST make the choice - Sacrifice all life for Humanity's immortality or shatter the galaxy and BANISH each species to wherever they happen to be when the mass relays go dark - for the Quarians in particular - this would be a DEATH SENTENCE.



that is PURE speculation - but it 'feels' right to me.

[Lordambitious]

Here's a question that has yet to be asked:



The Relays were created by the reapers so that the tech of organic life would follow a predictable path, and the relays are hundreds of light years apart, they make galactic civilisation possible by creating paths that only take a few seconds whereas via conventional ftl drive, would take decades or centuries to transit (which is why no one bothered mounting an expedition to Ilos without the Mu Relay, it would have been a lifelong trip. and we know that the relays connect to each other, not just any point in space.



How did the relays get where they are now?

[PooPoomonster]

Creston918 wrote...

Bioware's writers are good enough that their "big bad guys" aren't really good guys in disguise, but at the same time they still say stuff like "we're the harbingers of your destruction, we will eradicate all life in the universe," etc. If they were really here to help, why would they ever leave? Why not just pop up next to the citadel and broadcast "Hey, quit messing around with our universe!"

People who came up with that idea are just nuts. There is nothing in the story that fits with that idea.

That said, yeah, the Dark Energy hints were perhaps a tad overdone, but it could just be a red herring to throw us off. All we know for sure is that Shepard will need SOMETHING Deus Ex Machina-like in order to stop/defeat/banish the Reapers, since they're way too powerful to confront in any fashion.

I say the Quarians and the Geth will get together to build a weapon out of Dark Energy that detonates mass effect fields. Boom go the Reapers.

Well the writers set themselves up for some awsome pseudo science.
But since gravity slows time and mass effect fields are usually used to reduce an objects mass/gravity it could be use of mass effect fields accelerate the expansion of the universe and kill it. The Reapers might let the universe heal or something(again pseudo science) and then harvest the best species to let them live on as Reapers, until they can figure out a way to use mass effect without kill the universe.

Also element zero comes from black holes which Steven Hawking says(in the last few years), and I'm quoting here, rape the universe out of existence.
That is actually a concievably ludicrous twist. I could defineately see this ending in Mass Effect 3. It is gloriously science fiction

[PooPoomonster]

Moleculor wrote...

"When subjected to powerful electrical currents, element zero releases dark energy that can be harnessed to create mass effect fields"

Which implies that someone's using eezo to pump dark energy into the star.

Which implies that someone is pumping dark energy into that star that's dying.

Which implies someone is directing dark energy at that star.

Which implies someone has a purpose for directing dark energy at that star.

Whom do we know that probably has an element zero core large enough to generate enough dark energy to influence a star? It's not the geth, since it's been happening for centuries. And it's gotta be at long range, since no one else is in that system.


Thus, I suspect that the 'anti-Citadel', the other end of the Citadel relay that currently rests in darkspace a few hundred meters from the Reaper fleet, is currently focusing a tightly controlled lens-esque effect of dark energy at the core of that star in an attempt to alter its state.

For what purpose? Well, does anyone here know how to create a mass relay? For all we know, it involves a process much like this one. For all we know, the glowing energy at the center of each relay is actually a eezo-influenced star, and the metallic bits around it are the relay itself. The star is the 'brakes' and the metal bits are the 'catapult'. To reach the other end, you just need the 'star' portion.

The star dying to dark energy undergoes the transformation, and voila, the Reapers can reorient the anti-Citadel on this new endpoint and warp in. Once they're there, they're stuck, as there's no metal bits to work as a catapult (but the heretic geth were probably building that bit) to get them back out of the galaxy, but they can fix that once they're here.

Also a great idea. Although I would have guessed black hole or something.

[FataliTensei]

Moleculor wrote...

"When subjected to powerful electrical currents, element zero releases dark energy that can be harnessed to create mass effect fields"

Which implies that someone's using eezo to pump dark energy into the star.

Which implies that someone is pumping dark energy into that star that's dying.

Which implies someone is directing dark energy at that star.

Which implies someone has a purpose for directing dark energy at that star.

Whom do we know that probably has an element zero core large enough to generate dark energy? It's not the geth, since it's been happening for centuries. And it's gotta be at long range, since no one else is in that system.

Thus, I suspect that the 'anti-Citadel', the other end of the Citadel relay that currently rests in darkspace a few hundred meters from the Reaper fleet, is currently focusing a tightly controlled lens-esque effect of dark energy at the core of that star in an attempt to alter its state.

For what purpose? Well, does anyone here know how to create a mass relay? For all we know, it involves a process much like this one. For all we know, the glowing energy at the center of each relay is actually a eezo-influenced star, and the metallic bits around it are the relay itself. The star is the 'brakes' and the metal bits are the 'catapult'. To reach the other end, you just need the 'star' portion.

The star dying to dark energy undergoes the transformation, and voila, the Reapers can reorient the anti-Citadel on this new endpoint and warp in. Once they're there, they're stuck, as there's no metal bits to work as a catapult (but the heretic geth were probably building that bit) to get them back out of the galaxy, but they can fix that once they're here.

Very interesting Idea

[FataliTensei]

DRACO1130 wrote...

I think that the answer lies within the nature of the Reapers themselves - Sentient Machines that REAP organic life every 50 thousand years - that 'created' the Mass relays to 'shape' organic life into the pattern they wished it to follow - recall Virgil on ILos - the reapers Harvested Protheans - enslaving colonies - stripping planets bare of ALL resources - we know now that they altered protheans into collectors via introduction of technology to replace biology - the reapers immortality originates from biological life - they incorporate biological life in some manner that enables their own immortality - enabling them to continue and perpetuate themselves in dark matter space outside the galaxy - also recall that we learned that each reaper is a 'nation' unto itself - incorporating all the organic life essences it has consumed ? the Human reaper creation effort being undertaken in ME2 - Harbinger believed it to be Humanity's genetic destiny - that it was a positive thing. Consider, had the HUMAN reaper been completed - composed of all the liquefied humans - what of the indomitable human spirit ? Pure speculation I freely admit, but intriguing nonetheless - Why a human shape ? because a Human had, possibly for the first time EVER, interrupted their cycle - thus bringing humans to the forefront as both enemy to be feared and valuable asset to be incorporated.
My personal belief is that ME3 wil repeat the pattern already twice established - Shepard will make the choice - In ME1 - council lives or dies - in ME 2 collector station (which foments HUMAN development of REAPER technology) endures or gets destroyed - in ME3 - choice - Humans become the "NEW" crop of reapers, to endure for another 50 thousand years or instead break the cycle and destroy the reapers and LOSE ALL MASS RELAY TRAVEL ABILITY - consider your galaxy map and examine how FAR apart are even the closest systems - Shepard MUST make the choice - Sacrifice all life for Humanity's immortality or shatter the galaxy and BANISH each species to wherever they happen to be when the mass relays go dark - for the Quarians in particular - this would be a DEATH SENTENCE.

that is PURE speculation - but it 'feels' right to me.

That would be awful choice

[Lordambitious]

PooPoomonster wrote...



Well the writers set themselves up for some awsome pseudo science.
But since gravity slows time and mass effect fields are usually used to reduce an objects mass/gravity it could be use of mass effect fields accelerate the expansion of the universe and kill it. The Reapers might let the universe heal or something(again pseudo science) and then harvest the best species to let them live on as Reapers, until they can figure out a way to use mass effect without kill the universe.

Also element zero comes from black holes which Steven Hawking says(in the last few years), and I'm quoting here, rape the universe out of existence.
That is actually a concievably ludicrous twist. I could defineately see this ending in Mass Effect 3. It is gloriously science fiction

actually element zero is created when normal matter (such as a planet) is exposed to the energy of a star going supernova. so, no black hole is involved, the star could go nova and live a happy existance as a white dwarf or pulsar, or neutron star, without getting all black hole ish on us.

[StarcloudSWG]

Think about this in combination:



Star goes supernova through the forced manipulation of Mass Effect fields/Dark energy. Lots of Element Zero is created.



The drive core for a Reaper requires a *lot* of E-Zero.



The Collectors are working on creating a Reaper. Even if they didn't know for a fact which species they'd harvest for a Reaper, they could at least start preparations a few hundred years in advance.

[kraidy1117]

I have a feeling that it will be dark Energy that destroys the reapers for good, or that big ass gun that Cerberus found.

[Kyria Nyriese]

OK a couple of things here:

- Stars that go Nova/Super Nova, don't turn into White Dwarfs, actually white dwarfs are one of the types of stars that usually do nova/super nova.  They can however, turn into Pulsars and black holes.

- Haestrom's star is similar to Sol in that it is considered a G-type Main Sequence Star.  The Dark Energy isn't causing it to nova/super nova, it's causing it to turn into a Red Giant billions of years to soon.  That will be what happens to Sol in about 5 billion years at the last time I read on it before turning into a white dwarf.

While this is science fiction, remember that there is at least some science theory in most true science fiction.

Now as for Dark Energy, I find that it would be very interesting for them to come up with a way for the Dark Energy to be used against the Reapers, however, it would take a lot more background building on Dark Energy in my mind to be able to turn it into a weapon against the Reapers.  I personally think it is a 'red herring'.

That's my 2 creds worth.

[Lordambitious]

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

OK a couple of things here:

- Stars that go Nova/Super Nova, don't turn into White Dwarfs, actually white dwarfs are one of the types of stars that usually do nova/super nova.  They can however, turn into Pulsars and black holes.

- Haestrom's star is similar to Sol in that it is considered a G-type Main Sequence Star.  The Dark Energy isn't causing it to nova/super nova, it's causing it to turn into a Red Giant billions of years to soon.  That will be what happens to Sol in about 5 billion years at the last time I read on it before turning into a white dwarf.

While this is science fiction, remember that there is at least some science theory in most true science fiction.

Now as for Dark Energy, I find that it would be very interesting for them to come up with a way for the Dark Energy to be used against the Reapers, however, it would take a lot more background building on Dark Energy in my mind to be able to turn it into a weapon against the Reapers.  I personally think it is a 'red herring'.

That's my 2 creds worth.

large stars can go super nova, and their dead core that remains is a white dwarf. if the white dwarf is massive enough, its gravity will cause the atoms that make it up to collaps in on themselves, in that the electrons that orbit the atoms will plunge into the nuclei, combine with the protons and form a mass made entirely of neutrons, thus a neutron star is born. if the neutron star is spinning, and there is enough gas in its system, the intense magnetic field of the neutron star will cause the gas to form into beams at its poles, and as it spins, the beams will sweep through space and if lucky into our view (pointed directly at us) causing them to pulse.

my point is is that white dwarfs are the decaying remains of old stars, with masses of about one half to 8 times that of our sun, odds are that our sun will itself will become a white dwarf. White dwarves themselves cannot "go nova" because they are the remains of a star that has already died.

[Reptilian Rob]

I'm really busy right now, but I have a BA in astronomy/physics. So come tomorrow I'll explain Dark Energy in full detail, I promise.

[atheelogos]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

I'm really busy right now, but I have a BA in astronomy/physics. So come tomorrow I'll explain Dark Energy in full detail, I promise.

still gonna do it?
For those who love wiki check the link
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Energy

Modifié par atheelogos, 24 février 2010 - 07:22 .

[Eumerin]

I was all set to go with the "Reapers are creating the dark energy in Haestrom!" theory...  and then I finally noted what Giani Parasini was saying when you speak with her about her likely future assignments.  She says that there's a lot of research hacking going on, it's believed to be external hack jobs, and the hacking is focused on Dark Energy research.

Dark Energy coming up in two different locations within the game?  Probably not a coincidence...  And are the Reapers - i.e. the group that gave the galaxy the technology that currently powers it - likely to be hacking Noveria for research data?  Doubtful, as the Reapers probably know everything that Noveria could discover within the next few millenia.

Someone inside the Galaxy is involved is performing the hack jobs against Noveria.  Someone inside the Galaxy wants information on Dark Energy.  It's possible that it's the Quarian Migrant Fleet that commissioned the hack job, although I personally doubt it (call it a hunch).  But I also wouldn't be surprised if whoever is ultimately responsible for the hacks on Noveria is also somehow tied to Haestrom.  The individual/group could be the ones responsible for feeding dark energy to the star.  Perhaps an Asari group decided to feed the star dark energy a couple of centuries ago (after the Quarians fled).  After all, Asari could easily live long enough to see the resulting changes.  Or it's possible that the group responsible for the hacking was merely aware of the energy present and asked the Migrant Fleet Admiralty Board to recover the data, offering a large reward as compensation.  But regardless of the speculation, the Noveria hacking does raise the possibility that Haestrom's problems aren't connected to the Reapers.

[GnusmasTHX]

Kind of counter-productive to be the biggest user of mass effect technology and element zero, if you're trying to save the galaxy from the use of it.

[Vanaer]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Kind of counter-productive to be the biggest user of mass effect technology and element zero, if you're trying to save the galaxy from the use of it.

It also doesn't make any sense. The Reapers could be in constant monitoring of any and every star system: detect spacecraft? Harvest. Why all the fuzz of having cultures advance to a certain point using your technology? You know that at the moment cultures/species get spacefaring abilities (i.e. Apollo), it's time to harvest? I mean, they're reapers, super hybrid machines. Why do they let you progress so far as to be on the fringe of discovering their dirty little secret?

They almost offer you the chance to fight them... why? It doesn't make sense to me, especially since they consider us an error.

[Godeshus]

 Dark energy is a fresh new discovery in the world of physics, and is slowly gaining popularity in the sci fi realm. I believe Bioware just threw the concept into the game because it's cool. It's just lore and has no actual impact on the story whatsoever.

-godeshus

[Edgar1729]

Eumerin wrote...
Someone inside the Galaxy is involved is performing the hack jobs against Noveria.  Someone inside the Galaxy wants information on Dark Energy.  It's possible that it's the Quarian Migrant Fleet that commissioned the hack job, although I personally doubt it (call it a hunch).  But I also wouldn't be surprised if whoever is ultimately responsible for the hacks on Noveria is also somehow tied to Haestrom.  The individual/group could be the ones responsible for feeding dark energy to the star.

My guess : it was the Shadow Broker. He isn't probably responsible of feeding dark energy to the star, but he seems to be working for the Reapers (or at least he has no objections to that). Information is his forte and it's obvious with Liara on Illium that you're going to find him. 

As for the Dark Energy business, the Tali mission only hints that it would matter in ME3, but we don't know at which scale, and we can only guess how. Statistics tell us one of us will probably guess it right, but there's no actual and solid evidence to "deduce" Dark Energy role in ME3.

Modifié par Edgar1729, 24 février 2010 - 09:30 .