149 réponses à ce sujet

[Lightice_av]

The only way to avert this glitch is to send him to the ship with the survivors or to bring Moridin along for the final fight.

Not true. I left him behind while taking Tali and Miranda with me, and he survived just fine.

[Saurel]

Vanguard Alpha wrote...

The fact is, people ain't doing the loyalty missions, are not doing the 3 essential ship upgrades, and are assigning the wrong people to fulfil roles, for instance people sending thane as the techie, next yourll be using Legion as the biotic specialist../facepalm

One of the things I'm curious about is how Miranda and Garrus are essentially the only two good ALT/Fire Team Leaders.

I picked Zaeed...and he seems pretty logical. But still Tali death .

Samara and Jack are pretty obvious for the biotic shield. Since they make it sound like it requires quite a biotic to do that- if Samara would be able to only get a few through.

Tech also seems obvious: Tali or Legion

But for the fire team I would think:
Good: Zaeed, Jacob, Garrus, ,Miranda
Middle: Grunt and Samara
Bad; Mordin, Jack, and maybe Legion

Modifié par Saurel, 10 février 2010 - 07:49 .

[Fishy]

I figured this has much ..That why in each of my playthrough i always left grunt to hold the line and Garrus. Because they are tough.

[Fishy]

Saurel wrote...

Vanguard Alpha wrote...

The fact is, people ain't doing the loyalty missions, are not doing the 3 essential ship upgrades, and are assigning the wrong people to fulfil roles, for instance people sending thane as the techie, next yourll be using Legion as the biotic specialist../facepalm

One of the things I'm curious about is how Miranda and Garrus are essentially the only two good ALT/Fire Team Leaders.

I picked Zaeed...and he seems pretty logical. But still Tali death .

Samara and Jack are pretty obvious for the biotic shield. Since they make it sound like it requires quite a biotic to do that- if Samara would be able to only get a few through.

But for the fire team I would think:
Good: Zaeed, Jacob, Garrus, ,Miranda
Middle: Grunt and Samara
Bad; Mordin, Jack, and maybe Legion

Actually Jacob's quite good at leading the fireteam

[Saurel]

re:Jacob

I heard he wasn't a sure-fire (e.g. 100% no1 will die)  thing as much as Garrus and Miranda (not sure if that person knew what they were talking about). I'm still curious why loyal Zaeed doesn't work out, since his dossier mentions that he specialized in working with small groups.

Modifié par Saurel, 10 février 2010 - 07:51 .

[Palathas]

Darnalak wrote...

Mordin is the random death guy. So far no one's come up with a reason why he randomly kicks it, so it's generally accepted that you send him back with the crew, or you bring him with you.

Huh? I've never had Mordin die.

My choices are Legion and Miranda for the first pick and I take Samara and Grunt. I then use Garrus(leader), Jack (Biotic) and Jacob(guide) and take Samara(Morinth) and Miranda for the end bit.

The only time I've had people die is when I chose Thane instead of Legion and Samara instead of Miranda for the first leader role. Although I think the only reason Thane died is because I did choose Samara instead of Miranada because I swapped Thane for Legion and left Samara there so Legion copped the rocket in the face.

[DeadlyParasite]

Lightice_av wrote...

The only way to avert this glitch is to send him to the ship with the survivors or to bring Moridin along for the final fight.

Not true. I left him behind while taking Tali and Miranda with me, and he survived just fine.

Glitches are not consistent, so please stop assuming they are.

It's been mentioned many times that this is happening on and off. Sometimes he lives, sometimes he dies, with the exact same team layout, specialist choices, and stats.

Modifié par DeadlyParasite, 10 février 2010 - 07:52 .

[aeetos21]

choose the "go after them" option but before you hit the jump, make sure you knock out legion's loyalty quest - you can still save kelly if you go that route



then, once you're done at the heretic base, go directly to the o4 relay to hit them where it hurts

[Captain Crash]

Ok now I have an explanation for why Mordin died on mine. It was really bugging me. I just couldn't grasp it. But Kelly also died so even if Mordin lived that would still be annoying me!



I was so sure I would survive the suicide mission first time round. Cant believe some random element outside my control stopped it.

[Occams Razor 17]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Dusty Everman wrote...

Mordin's death is not a glitch or bug.  I believe that when people are surprised with Mordin's death, it's during the "Hold the Line" time where you leave crew behind as you and two squad mates move onward.   Tech had their moment in the sun with the tunnel infiltration.  A biotic is key for the protective bubble.  The Hold the Line sequence is time for your soldier types to do their best.

Basically you want your best DEFENDERS to hold the line.  Don't think about offensive solo strikers.  Think about the guys that can dig down and hold a position with moxie.  You want them to hold the line.

Under the hood, each character has a "hole the line" score, which gets a bonus  if the character is loyal.  Characters like Mordin, Jack and Tali are squishy and not exoeruenced with bunkering down and holding out for an extended period of time.  Characters like Grunt and Zaeed are tanks who thrive on this type of work.  The score is tallied for all the team members that are holding the line, and the number of survivors are calculated.  If people are to die, the non-loyals squishies go first through the list to the loyal tanks.  Alas, I think Mordin is at the head of the death list.  Some characters can't survive without help even if they are loyal.  Others can survive even if not loyal.  

Here are some examples for the group holding the line:
Loyal Mordin by himself:  He can't hold the line by himself.  He dies.
Non-loyal Grunt by himself: Grunt lives.  He hunkers down and gets the job done, and doesn't have to worry about helping any one else.
Loyal Mordin and non-Loyal Grunt:   Grunt dies, but Mordin lives.  Grunt is able to hold the line but goofs up helping Mordin... he was just too aggressive without his right of passage.
Loyal Mordin and Loyal Grunt: They both live.

Note it is possible to get non-loyal henchmen to survive through the end game with the proper group holding the line.

So what is a good strategy?  Send back a loyal squishy with the crew, like Mordin or Tali.   Leave your defensive bad asses to hold the line (hmmm, Garrus defended a base all by himself to an extended period of time....)  and take your loyal offensive favorites with you to the end.

As for saving Kelly and the crew, you just need to make sure you go through the Omega-4 relay right after the crew is taken, and make sure you send a loyal squad mate back as an escort.

I knew there were other factors at work! This should be stickied!

I second this sentiment!  

[Snowraptor]

radtz wrote...

OK... Deep Breath....

My first play though with a paragon femshep sentinal, Kelly died beacuse I did a few missions between the IFF and suicide mission so I earned that.  I then reloaded a save I had right before the IFF mission and only did the Legion loyality quest before the suidide mission.  She (and my fish) died agian! 

I let that go and started a manshep renegade engineer.  I did every mission but Legion's loyalty quest including the N&7 ones before the IFF.  I did the IFF then talked to Legion did his loyality quest upgraded stuff in the lab, made sweet love to Tali, then did the sudide mission.  KELLY DIED AGAIN! 

There HAS to be another condition besides not doing quests bewteen the IFF and Sucicide missions.  Do you have to pick the "lets go now" conversation option at the end of the IFF mission?  I alwasy say "later" so I can talk to Legion and do his Loyalty quest. 

My second issue on this play through is that Mordin died.  WTH?  I had every squad member loyal and used the SAME people at the same locations as the other 2 playthroughs.  The only exception is I had Morinth and not Samara so I used Morinth as the biotic (she is as strong as her mother).  Did Mordin die because I didn't use Jack for the biotic barrier? I made sure all squad members spent their squad points before the IFF batte.


FYI: Tali was in the vents; Miranda led first fire group, Garrus the second, Jacob lead the troops back to the ship (No Kelly GRRR); and Morinth was the biotic sheld.  I used Grunt and Legion for the last battle.

Insights would be appreciated.  I am really frustrated.

Dude i would Love to know how this is happening to you because i HATE Kelley, she us ****ing useless!

[Snowraptor]

Saurel wrote...

Vanguard Alpha wrote...

The fact is, people ain't doing the loyalty missions, are not doing the 3 essential ship upgrades, and are assigning the wrong people to fulfil roles, for instance people sending thane as the techie, next yourll be using Legion as the biotic specialist../facepalm

One of the things I'm curious about is how Miranda and Garrus are essentially the only two good ALT/Fire Team Leaders.

I picked Zaeed...and he seems pretty logical. But still Tali death .

Samara and Jack are pretty obvious for the biotic shield. Since they make it sound like it requires quite a biotic to do that- if Samara would be able to only get a few through.

Tech also seems obvious: Tali or Legion

But for the fire team I would think:
Good: Zaeed, Jacob, Garrus, ,Miranda
Middle: Grunt and Samara
Bad; Mordin, Jack, and maybe Legion

You forgot thane, i tested them all and he sucks at everything

[Guaritor]

DeadlyParasite wrote...

Dusty Everman wrote...


Loyal Mordin and Loyal Grunt: They both live.

The problem with that statement is that all my characters WERE loyal and still Moridin died in that sequence.

The only way to avert this glitch is to send him to the ship with the survivors or to bring Moridin along for the final fight.

He was only giving an example... not the exact formula... its not a glitch.

[radtz]

Dusty Everman wrote...

Mordin's death is not a glitch or bug.  I believe that when people are surprised with Mordin's death, it's during the "Hold the Line" time where you leave crew behind as you and two squad mates move onward.   Tech had their moment in the sun with the tunnel infiltration.  A biotic is key for the protective bubble.  The Hold the Line sequence is time for your soldier types to do their best.

Basically you want your best DEFENDERS to hold the line.  Don't think about offensive solo strikers.  Think about the guys that can dig down and hold a position with moxie.  You want them to hold the line.

Under the hood, each character has a "hole the line" score, which gets a bonus  if the character is loyal.  Characters like Mordin, Jack and Tali are squishy and not exoeruenced with bunkering down and holding out for an extended period of time.  Characters like Grunt and Zaeed are tanks who thrive on this type of work.  The score is tallied for all the team members that are holding the line, and the number of survivors are calculated.  If people are to die, the non-loyals squishies go first through the list to the loyal tanks.  Alas, I think Mordin is at the head of the death list.  Some characters can't survive without help even if they are loyal.  Others can survive even if not loyal.  

Here are some examples for the group holding the line:
Loyal Mordin by himself:  He can't hold the line by himself.  He dies.
Non-loyal Grunt by himself: Grunt lives.  He hunkers down and gets the job done, and doesn't have to worry about helping any one else.
Loyal Mordin and non-Loyal Grunt:   Grunt dies, but Mordin lives.  Grunt is able to hold the line but goofs up helping Mordin... he was just too aggressive without his right of passage.
Loyal Mordin and Loyal Grunt: They both live.

Note it is possible to get non-loyal henchmen to survive through the end game with the proper group holding the line.

So what is a good strategy?  Send back a loyal squishy with the crew, like Mordin or Tali.   Leave your defensive bad asses to hold the line (hmmm, Garrus defended a base all by himself to an extended period of time....)  and take your loyal offensive favorites with you to the end.

As for saving Kelly and the crew, you just need to make sure you go through the Omega-4 relay right after the crew is taken, and make sure you send a loyal squad mate back as an escort.

Thanks Dusty.  It all makes sense now. 

[LetoII]

Saurel wrote...

re:Jacob

I heard he wasn't a sure-fire (e.g. 100% no1 will die)  thing as much as Garrus and Miranda (not sure if that person knew what they were talking about). I'm still curious why loyal Zaeed doesn't work out, since his dossier mentions that he specialized in working with small groups.

I can't understand why people think Zaeed is a good choice to lead a team without any casualty. Didn't you do his quest? Didn't you see him set the whole place on fire? This man his a walking danger for his teammates.

[Ulicus]

DeadlyParasite wrote...

Dusty Everman wrote...


Loyal Mordin and Loyal Grunt: They both live.

The problem with that statement is that all my characters WERE loyal and still Moridin died in that sequence.

The only way to avert this glitch is to send him to the ship with the survivors or to bring Moridin along for the final fight.

Who did you take to fight the Human-Reaper? I'm under the impression that if you take two, or even one, of the "hold the liners", Mordin has a chance to pop his cloggs.

[Tamyn]

Thanks Dusty. When I took Grunt with me for the final battle and left Garrus, Mordin survived and Miranda died, but when I took Garrus and left Grunt, Mordin died. I guess I have to leave both of them behind unless I send Mordin back with the crew.

Modifié par Tamyn, 10 février 2010 - 08:02 .

[Creston918]

Saurel wrote...

Vanguard Alpha wrote...

The fact is, people ain't doing the loyalty missions, are not doing the 3 essential ship upgrades, and are assigning the wrong people to fulfil roles, for instance people sending thane as the techie, next yourll be using Legion as the biotic specialist../facepalm

One of the things I'm curious about is how Miranda and Garrus are essentially the only two good ALT/Fire Team Leaders.

I picked Zaeed...and he seems pretty logical. But still Tali death .

Samara and Jack are pretty obvious for the biotic shield. Since they make it sound like it requires quite a biotic to do that- if Samara would be able to only get a few through.

Tech also seems obvious: Tali or Legion

But for the fire team I would think:
Good: Zaeed, Jacob, Garrus, ,Miranda
Middle: Grunt and Samara
Bad; Mordin, Jack, and maybe Legion

How would Grunt and Samara be good squad leaders? Samara is a Justicar, she is ALWAYS fighting alone. She wouldn't have the slightest concept of effective squad tactics. Grunt is a little more possible because of potential knowledge instilled by Okeer, but even so, he's very individual and gung-ho in battle, which are NOT qualities you want in a squad leader.

That said, it's nuts that Zaeed doesn't qualify as a squad leader. I chose him as the fireteam leader my first playthrough, which killed Legion and him. The guy founded the largest merc organization, and he explains that throughout their first years, he was the guy doing all the work with the mercs, while Vido was doing the books. That's not a good squad leader?

Basically the rule is : Don't choose DLC characters for anything, because they haven't been integrated into the final mission.

As for Mordin dying, I think what Dusty is saying is that it heavily depends on who you leave behind to hold the line while you take a few squishies off to kick Terminator ass. My first playthrough I took Garrus and Grunt with me to kill the Terminator, and Mordin died. Other playthroughs I've wound up taking more squishy characters along, and everyone survived, presumably because Grunt and Zaeed are taking the brunt of the tanking duties.

It makes sense in a way, but I dislike that you can't choose characters who should hold the line. I knew Mordin couldn't hold the line, he even says so multiple times during the game, but other than taking him along to do the final fight (which at first seemed like a bad idea), you HAVE NO OTHER OPTION.

They should have let you pick which characters should hold the line, while keeping the rest in reserve or something. That way you keep the squishies out of harm's way, which is exactly what a good leader would do. Then I'd have Grunt, Thane, Zaeed, Legion and Garrus hold the line. 3 Assault rifles plus 2 sniper rifles should easily get the job done.

Modifié par Creston918, 10 février 2010 - 08:13 .

[RiouHotaru]

Thank you, so VERY much. There was just way too much speculation as to what the cause of the "random" Mordin/Tali deaths are. At least we know now what the cause is!

[ShadowWolf_Kell]

Ulicus wrote...

Who did you take to fight the Human-Reaper? I'm under the impression that if you take two, or even one, of the "hold the liners", Mordin has a chance to pop his cloggs.

Garrus and Mordin.  I'd sent Jacob back to the ship since he seemed to be well qualified to lead them to safety next to Grunt.  Jacob isn't a super powerhouse, but he's got some mean defensive abilities and was trustworthy enough to stick to the plan. 

I had no deaths in my playthrough, though if I'd taken Zaaeed over Mordin for the end, Mordin probably would have bit it.

3 x AoE Concussive Shot is awesome.

[sarahN7]

I did only Legion's loyalty mission and only some random chick died (not Kelly).

[Cutlass Jack]

I took Tali & Jack to fight the Human Reaper. After reading that dev post it turned out to be a better choice than I thought since neither are good with 'Line Holding.'

[Akeashar]

I managed to get through without any deaths, and that was with sitting and pondering who to do each time. (Deep thought!)

First Section:
My Squad:  Garrus + Jack
Other Squad:  Jacob (who took Thane as his offsider for the CS)
Vents:  Legion

Sent Back:  Thane  (I figured he'd be up to the task of defending them)

Second Section:
My Squad:  Garrus + Jacob
Biotic Shield:  Jack  (Obvious choice for Raw Biotic Power)
Alternate Team Leader:  Miranda  (Thought I'd swap her in and see how an engineered Tactician did it)

Final Section:
My Squad:  Garrus + Miranda
Everyone else held the line  (I didn't have to choose who would stay back)  Dunno if that was because I chose the 'We've got to get this done first' rather than 'Someone should stay here' option.

Of course, it was the LI Garrus that was the slider. XD  The main part of my concern had been when Miranda had been the alternate team leader, since it looked like she'd been wounded when we met up but was apparently nothing.  And yes, I tended to take Garrus everywhere I went, mainly due to his Overload and for Old Times Sake.  (Wanting a biotic for lots of the missions resulted in Tali being left behind a lot unfortunately)

Modifié par Akeashar, 10 février 2010 - 08:36 .

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Dusty Everman wrote...

The score is tallied for all the team members that are holding the line, and the number of survivors are calculated.  If people are to die, the non-loyals squishies go first through the list to the loyal tanks.  Alas, I think Mordin is at the head of the death list.  Some characters can't survive without help even if they are loyal.  Others can survive even if not loyal.

Wait, I'm confused. Are you saying that the total "survivor score" is the sum of all the various scores provided by the characters holding the line, and that it you have a high enough total score, you could potentially get through without any casualties even if you bring Grunt and Garrus or Zaeed with you? 

To illustrate what I mean: Let's say we replaced loyal Grunt, with his score equivelent in loyal Talis. That is, we'd have a dozen Talis or whatever it takes to equal how much Grunt counts for on the line. Would this group suffer no casualties because their total survivor score is the same as that provided by grunt, or would the fact that each individual Tali is much weaker result in casualties due to attrition? 

[unclee]

In response to the Bioware explanation my question would be this: why did Mordin survive when I took Grunt with me (meaning he wasn't holding the line) yet died when I left Grunt to hold the line?



On both my play throughts the only thing I changed was my final squad. First time I took Garrus and Grunt. Second time I took Garrus and Thane. First play he lives, yet second play he dies? Despite having MORE "defenders" left behind?