149 réponses à ce sujet

[CubbieBlue66]

Interesting...

If memory serves, we've been told that it's possible to have everybody survive if we have as few as 4 loyal characters. This adds a bit of information to that.

We know for sure that if we don't have loyal characters for certain parts, somebody will die. Those parts are:

-The tech expert in the vents (can be done safely by Tali or Legion)
-The leader of the 2nd squad (Garrus, Jacob, or Miranda)
-Biotic expert for the bubble (Jack or Samara)
-Any character to escort the crew back.
-Any characters taken to the final battle

Now we're being told that certain characters (Jack, Tali, and Mordin certainly) are likely to have trouble holding the line.

So if I were to take a guess at constructing a minimal run that still saved everybody, I'd probably do Mordin, Tali, Jack, and Miranda's loyalty missions. We know Mordin, Tali, and Jack for certain. Miranda is a bit of a guess, but we need to do one of the "leader" characters and if I had to guess, she'd have the lowest "hold the line" score... could be Jacob, but I'd put money it isn't Garrus.

Put it all together, and we come up with this:

-Tali in the vents
-Miranda to lead the 2nd team (both times)
-Jack for the bubble
-Send either Tali or Mordin to escort the crew back
-Bring Jack and whichever of Tali or Mordin is still around with you for the final boss.

If I'm correct, that is your minimal "save everybody" run.

Modifié par CubbieBlue66, 11 février 2010 - 11:11 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

CubbieBlue66 wrote...

Interesting...

If memory
serves, we've been told that it's possible to have everybody survive if
we have as few as 4 loyal characters. This adds a bit of information to
that.

We know for sure that if we don't have loyal characters for certain parts, somebody will die. Those parts are:

-The tech expert in the vents (can be done safely by Tali or Legion)
-The leader of the 2nd squad (Garrus, Jacob, or Miranda)
-Biotic expert for the bubble (Jack or Samara)
-Any character to escort the crew back.
-Any characters taken to the final battle

Now we're being told that certain characters (Jack, Tali, and Mordin certainly) are likely to have trouble holding the line.

So
if I were to take a guess at constructing a minimal run that still
saved everybody, I'd probably do Mordin, Tali, Jack, and Miranda's
loyalty missions. We know Mordin, Tali, and Jack for certain. Miranda
is a bit of a guess, but we need to do one of the "leader" characters
and if I had to guess, she'd have the lowest "hold the line" score...
could be Jacob, but I'd put money it isn't Garrus.

Put it all together, and we come up with this:

-Tali in the vents
-Miranda to lead the 2nd team (both times)
-Jack for the bubble
-Send either Tali or Mordin to escort the crew back
-Bring Jack and whichever of Tali or Mordin is still around with you for the final boss.

If I'm correct, that is your minimal "save everybody" run.

Exactly, that is similar to what I said on previous page although am having Samara rather than
Jack, because I've had 2 playthroughs now where Jack has been on the
defence line and in one of them she only had Zaeed and Miranda (of all people lol) as
door defence buddies. Granted in both cases everyone there was loyal, but I just have faith that she can withstand it. Also technically of course you could do both Jack and Samara's loyalty missions but then in Jack's case, side with Miranda during the fight (could do same for Tali and Legion)

[brgillespie]

Who survives the "Hold the Line" bit depends on which characters you leave holding the line. Mordin's death is NOT random.

[CubbieBlue66]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Exactly, that is similar to what I said on previous page although am having Samara rather than
Jack, because I've had 2 playthroughs now where Jack has been on the
defence line and in one of them she only had Zaeed and Miranda (of all people lol) as
door defence buddies. Granted in both cases everyone there was loyal, but I just have faith that she can withstand it. Also technically of course you could do both Jack and Samara's loyalty missions but then in Jack's case, side with Miranda during the fight (could do same for Tali and Legion)

-Your previous playthrough is completely devoid of any predicitive value. You had 3 loyal characters holding the line? How does that in any way tell us what's going to happen if you have one loyal character and SEVEN non-loyal characters (read: targets) on the line?

-Jack was directly referenced by a Bioware employee as being one of the characters that has trouble holding the line. Samara was not. I'd take that over your "faith" any day...

-And why on earth would you do extra loyalty missions with the intent to not gain a character's loyalty in what is supposed to be a minimal run?

[Silver]

immediately after you "acquire" Legion from the derelict reaper, activate him, talk to him and then talk to him again so that he mentions that there is a schism within geth society and gives you the coordinates to "Heretic Station".

I always let EDI integrate the IFF after finding it, then do Legion's loyalty mission (at which time all of my squadmates are loyal) and when I then come back to do another mission, the crew is abducted, I go after them and save them all.



Also, if you want everyone to survive the suicide mission, then you had better have them all loyal to you...

[Kerilus]

So basically the key to have all of them survive can be summed up into three points:

1, Correct selection of job

2. Keep all of the squad loyal

3. Bring only the relatively non-combatant like squadmates to the final battle.

[buptown11]

silverhammer08 wrote...

immediately after you "acquire" Legion from the derelict reaper, activate him, talk to him and then talk to him again so that he mentions that there is a schism within geth society and gives you the coordinates to "Heretic Station".
I always let EDI integrate the IFF after finding it, then do Legion's loyalty mission (at which time all of my squadmates are loyal) and when I then come back to do another mission, the crew is abducted, I go after them and save them all.

Also, if you want everyone to survive the suicide mission, then you had better have them all loyal to you...

Thats what I did last time. Im curious though if I could squeeze another Loyalty mission in between there also so I could see what happens when I bring Legion along to Tali's quest.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

CubbieBlue66 wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Exactly, that is similar to what I said on previous page although am having Samara rather than
Jack, because I've had 2 playthroughs now where Jack has been on the
defence line and in one of them she only had Zaeed and Miranda (of all people lol) as
door defence buddies. Granted in both cases everyone there was loyal, but I just have faith that she can withstand it. Also technically of course you could do both Jack and Samara's loyalty missions but then in Jack's case, side with Miranda during the fight (could do same for Tali and Legion)

-Your previous playthrough is completely devoid of any predicitive value. You had 3 loyal characters holding the line? How does that in any way tell us what's going to happen if you have one loyal character and SEVEN non-loyal characters (read: targets) on the line?

-Jack was directly referenced by a Bioware employee as being one of the characters that has trouble holding the line. Samara was not. I'd take that over your "faith" any day...

-And why on earth would you do extra loyalty missions with the intent to not gain a character's loyalty in what is supposed to be a minimal run?

Sorry, I didn't realise I needed your permission to play the game the way I wanted to. I must also add to that, that if you care to re-read my post nowhere in it did I say that you should do what I do either.

I could elaborate as to why am doing it and the reasoning for my belief, but as you've been such a rude jerk, I don't feel the need to.

I might fail in my mission, I never said it was fullproof and would work. I would only do that if I had done it already and it had been a success. Course getting those upgrades from those 'timewasting' loyalty quests could sway the balance or maybe they won't.

Did Dusty mention every characters chances? No.
Did he give the list of likeliest to least likeliest to fall? Not exactly.

So just because he mentioned Jack but not Samara doesn't really mean much. He did after all say 'Characters like... Jack, Tali and Mordin. Notice the word like, that could easily put at least 2 others on that list. One being Samara, the other being Legion. After all Legion did get clobbered by a bunch of husks remember.

People have had a 6-7 loyal people and Mordin has died. I had 3 and Jack didn't. I can't remember if it was on this topic or another but I pointed out how on both playthroughs Jack was the one whom responded, in the one where there was just her, Miranda and Zaeed she stated they were having a hard time, in the other one, it seemed to be going ok. That to me sounds like numbers at the gate plays a part in it too. Let's look at the numbers shall we.

So am going into the final battle with Tali and Samara with Mordin having gone back with the Crew.
That leaves me with Miranda, Zaeed, Grunt, Garrus, Jacob, Thane, Legion and Jack.

Am going into the final battle with all my 'defenders' defending the door. Me personally, I think Jack will be fine, but if am proved wrong when I play it, I'll accept it.

As I said earlier, I never said you should play it my way, just as much as you shouldn't tell me how to play either.

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

Hmm... I wonder if having "extra" characters adds to the "hold the line" survivability. It makes sense that it would. So would having Zaeed and Kasumi help?

[Kenthen]

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...

Hmm... I wonder if having "extra" characters adds to the "hold the line" survivability. It makes sense that it would. So would having Zaeed and Kasumi help?

Zaeed is supposedly on of the best characters for holding the line along with Grunt and Garrus. Everyone adds something though but from what I understand the most important part is that you have at least one of the "tanks" there to keep things together.

[Jeremy Winston]

So... does this mean that the survival of the character escorting the crew back to the ship is strictly loyal/non-loyal based?



I sent Grunt back because I thought he'd tank to protect the crew. But the implication is that there is very little resistance, since a squishy such as Tali or Mordin can get everyone back alive.



If so, why do they die if non-loyal?

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

If so, why do they die if non-loyal?

Am not entirely sure but I've heard people have it that in some cases when a non-loyal person goes back with the crew sometimes the crew don't make it, sometimes they do. I imagine it depends on who you send back.

A non-loyal member wouldn't stick to the task as much as a loyal one would, now that would come either at the betterment of the crew or not depending on who they are and what they did.

This isn't confirmed but I would imagine that say it were Thane, yes he is a bit of a lonewolf, but during Shepherd's initial conversation he talks of how he was too late to save the lives of some innocent people. Considering that and also his statement that he is dying and sees the suicide mission as a perfect way to go, I would imagine that if you sent him back non-loyal he would die saving the crew. Sure he isn't loyal to you, but I reckon it is within his character that in that circumstance that would be the outcome.

Whereas say if you sent a non-loyal Grunt or Zaeed back... I imagine the crew would die too because the pair of them are a bit reckless. Again I might be wrong, just my thoughts on the matter.

[Jeremy Winston]

Yeah.. I understand that... but logic indicates that opposition is really light. Otherwise, how can a single squishy squad mate get the entire, unarmed, crew back with no problems?



I'm thinking it's just story. Which is fine.

[Tyfreaky]

I think this is a complex equation and that the Dev's are most likely going to be TOO specific with answers.
He was just giving an example not an exact equation or exactly how it works. And I doubt he is going to answer specific follow up questions if he's only giving examples in the first place.


But basically what I think he is saying is:

• You can probably take whoever you need with you as long as your not removing TWO or more of your hold the liners.
• Send your squishies back to the ship not your combat troops.

My guess as to who are the hold the liners:

• Grunt
• Zaeed
• Garrus
• Jacob

I personally  always send Mordan Back unless I'm using him. I find it appropriate to send the doctor back to protect and help take care of the injured.

[lltoon]

Remember the first woman you see die in that pod isn't Kelly. It's a colonist. Just make sure you don't confuse the 2 people.

[Jeremy Winston]

That depends. If you're gonna lose Kelly, she's the one you see go. She's second on the list, and if you delay getting there, then the colonist is already gone Kelly's up.

[NICKjnp]

Read the Dossiers. They tell you who to bring. The hold the line people need to be your power house players.... Grunt, Zaed, Garrus and etc (because they are "holding the line"). Send Mordin to the ship or at least make sure you don't send your tank characters.

[PingoBlack]

Tyfreaky wrote...

My guess as to who are the hold the liners:

• Grunt
• Zaeed
• Garrus
• Jacob

I personally  always send Mordan Back unless I'm using him. I find it appropriate to send the doctor back to protect and help take care of the injured.

[*]From my experience Legion with a sniper upgrade must also have very high hold the line score. I sent Grunt back with crew and Mordin lived, with Garrus, Zaeed and Legion being the only real defenders. Tali and Miranda went with me.

[Toryss]

I lost Tali due to my poor judgement in giving Zaeed the second team; Kelly was lost as well. Personally, I think this makes the story more exciting, and a bit more personal to me. When ME3 comes along, very few people will be playing the same game I am.

[Jeremy Winston]

It was very exciting, especially the way they "almost" kill people, and you're not quite sure until the scene continues.



By the way.. in the final cut scene (after the reaper), one member starts falling, and you grab them and save them from falling over.



Is there any situation where you miss?

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

It was very exciting, especially the way they "almost" kill people, and you're not quite sure until the scene continues.

By the way.. in the final cut scene (after the reaper), one member starts falling, and you grab them and save them from falling over.

Is there any situation where you miss?

Don't think so, all the shep dies runs I have seen he still goes after one, still saves them but after they roll back the other way it then cuts to them lying dead under one of them beams they all get stuck under. Has me wondering if they were thinking of having it that a non-loyal member could die there then decided it was too much hassle or something?

[newcomplex]

Every member of your squad doesn't have to be loyal in order to survive.



To remedy this problem, go to Omega-4 instantly, send Mordin to escort crew back, Legion will be fine as long as the rest of your team is loyal.

[SmilingMirror]

I had kelly and all the squad members survive my first playthrough. I sent Thane to bring back the crew and had Jacob and Garrus come with me for the human reaper. Everyone had loyalty on my squad however.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 12 février 2010 - 05:11 .

[McFuzzi]

Everyone survived on my 1st run including crew. Had all characters loyal.



Leg -> hacker

Miranda -. fire team leader 1st time



Samara - Biotic shield

Garrus - fire team leader 2nd time



Thane took people back to the ship



Shep (Infiltrator) Maranda + Grunt took out the boss.





I geuss Legion + Garrus with sniper rifles, Z for heavy fire power samara + jack + jacob for biotics was plenty enough to hold the line.

[BattleVisor]

Kim Stolz wrote...

What you have to realize about mordin holding his own in his clinic is...he was in a clinic. Noone said he didn't get hurt fighting off random blue suns.No clinic in on the collector base and Zaeed's a really good fighter but if you talk to him in his quarters he talks about missions he's been on and all the people that went with him have died! That's not someone I'd want leading a team into combat .

interesting