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[blank1]

I'm pretty curious how everyone else is misses the outright Hebrew language allegory for Quarians. They had a freakin' San Hedrin to pass judgment on Tali (Which is a popular name in Israel) FFS. Raheel-Leyya (Rachel and Leia for you heathen type :3) star system, solar system named Sheol, planet named Gei-Hinnom in the Sheol system, the "prayer" before Tali's trial which was basically the exact English translation of a Jewish festival blessing (Replace "ancestors" with "God")... if anything, the wandering salesmen with strange goods, etc. They don't really roam around dancing for people and stealing their stuff, ya know? :3

[Chief Savage Man]

Abirn wrote...

Chief Savage Man wrote...

The volus are skilled at finance but hold little military power, much like the Jewish people for most of history. That being said, this thread is headed for disaster.

Israel has one of the most well trained and kick ass armies in the entire world......

That's why I said most of history. Before Israel's ascension, it had been millenia since there was a unified Jewish state with real power.

[blank1]

I've decided that this thread is gay.

[Peer of the Empire]

Chief Savage Man wrote...

The volus are skilled at finance but hold little military power, much like the Jewish people for most of history. That being said, this thread is headed for disaster.

Lol, true.  I am a bit surprised

Dethateer wrote...

Caz Neerg wrote...

Other
than your Quarian comparison, I disagree with both of those.

Hey,
tell you guys what: you come live over here, in Eastern Europe for a
year, and then tell me if the Quarians still remind you of gypsies.

Bioware is trying to make a gypsie existence sympathetic.  And ME:Revelation had a sort of noble savage / communist vibe in its description of the quarian fleet.  As we know, real life doesn't work that way.

Keeping along with this, there's the presidium groundskeeper with his "if only we all had the same DNA" and the codex proclaiming humans mixed brown (yet we have asians and africans)

Still, it's tempered, last game perhaps by another ME1 writer who's blog was posted here sometime back and this game by the need for an entertaining game

Modifié par Peer of the Empire, 10 février 2010 - 10:09 .

[Chuvvy]

Bartarians = Barbarians like Genghis khan's men. Why? because I think the skin around their face looks like a chairmen chow mustache.



Volus = Danny Devito with asthma he's not race but whatever.



Vorcha look like cats that got dumped into a vat of radioactive goo.

[Spazticus]

Caz Neerg wrote...

Spazticus wrote...
You actually proved a point of my post, there. By posing the question on basketball as you did, you're failing to see past the stereotype. In reality, it wouldn't matter one whit to me what race the person is. If they have skills, that trumps everything else, including height. Height won't help you if you lack the agility to block a shot.

As for the second example, that's a terribly weak argument. No one would expect such a woman to plan a bachelor party, because her implied morals, as you paint them, are opposed to events like that. Besides that, if I know someone to be devoutly religious, why would I ask them to get involved with something so objectively secular? If I have a modicum of  understanding of her beliefs, it would probably be offensive, at the very least.

Once again, stereotypes suck. I've been a victim of racism before, both implied and direct. Stereotypes are often a passive way for people to project their racism, and make the targets seem less human, further enforcing those beliefs. Eventually, the stereotype becomes innate to the belief, and then the belief becomes immutable truth. Responding with reason and understanding is just about the only way to break the vicious cycle.

Outside of a limited number of mathematical and scientific facts, there are no immutable truths.  Only perceptions which are more or less justifiable based on available evidence.  If you have never met a group of individuals, and have not seen their skills, then all you have to go on is guess work in picking a team.  If the *only* knowledge you have is of the superficial type which can be gained from looking at someone, a reasonable person who wants to win the basketball game will pick a tall black guy over a short asian.  Granted, I am combining two stereotypes to make the choice easy.  If it were a short black guy vs. a tall asian, the stereotypes would conflict with each other, making them less useful in decision making.

In judging a given individual's fitness for a certain task, you should make use of all available information.  If the only information you have is superficial, then that reduces your ability to make a good decision, but ignoring information just because it is of a type that is considered politically incorrect makes your decision less likely to be a practically appropriate one, not more likely.  Does it suck when a stereotype is applied to a person by others, in a case where it is demonstrably true that the stereotype doesn't fit?  Sure, that sucks.  It also sucks when people refuse to treat someone who *does* fit a stereotype accordingly, out of fear of being condemned for catering to stereotypes.  Which kind of condemnation does happen, probably as often as people are inappropriately stereotyped.

My reference to immutable truth should be contextualized thusly: "In the mind of someone who is racist." Taken strictly in that context, the paragraph as a whole should be more direct. Even in the face of clear evidence to the contrary, racists tend to obstinantly disregard facts that don't meet their stereotypes, and revel in any that do. e.g. "See, they're all like that! You can't trust them!" or whatever the case may be. The point is, the stereotype is used to reinforce the rule, until in the person's mind, it becomes the rule (hence, immutable truth.) Stereotypes aren't inherent evidence, but they are portrayed as facts, only because of a slight ring of truth. You'll rarely see racists use the "positive" stereotypes to praise someone not like themselves, when it's so much easier to dehumanize. Even when they do, there's a sense of condescension or jealousy in it. In the end, it only serves to drive wedges between people.

For my part, it's less about being politically correct as it is about being capable of being a better person. I have the intelligence, conscience, and the option to avoid that behavior. To be able to move beyond that, to understand and deal with the people I encounter on a higher level. So you have two people to choose from, in the pickup game you described. Not knowing their skill levels, and with no time to determine any of it, my inclination is to pick the taller of the two, regardless of race. Just because there's a common stereotype about who would be better.... That doesn't mean it's the determining factor, nor that anyone should ideally play into it. For all I know, the taller guy is highly asthmatic, only there because he was hanging out with a friend, really wants to get back to his college homework, and never played a game in his life.

[NeoGuardian86]

Honostly, this is what the aliens remind me of with their real world counterparts.

Quarians:

Palestinians, more so after doing Tali's loyalty mission. the accent while sounds more East European does sound like Arab immigrant as well. the head dress, the mistake of war and losing their home. the arguements as to whether or not to settle somewhere else or to go to war again. desperate to get a lost home back again.

Though i can see why people would say Jewish and or Gypsy.

Batarians

The Arabs (i'm Arab by the way) shortly after modern day Israel's creation. Basically petitioned to the UN  to keep i all Arab land, UN says no, many stormed out. This is the same sort of set up for the Batarians and Human Alliance in the ME univerese, the Citadel council favors humanity and then the Batarians storm out of the council, and incite terrorism and attacks on Human colonies on the border.

If you want a modern day equivelant, i'd say Iran or Syria...

Volus

stereotypical Jews, at least in the historical sense. a client race to the Turians for their protection, care only for their status economically over each other.

Turians

Sparta without the slavery. Much of their culture is based on the clean-cut military hegemony. Real world Sparta never grew into a giant empire for really two reasons 1) deployment set up did not allow for long distance coverage, and 2) spending way too much time knocking down slave uprisings. They are not politically or diplomatically savvy, thus they lean on the Asari. The Salarian's are just better than the Turians at intel gathering, so they rely on them for it as well.

Asari

The French, i don't mean this in the stereotypical way, they don't seem to value military strength, more so then they value art, literature, music, understanding other cultures, and diplomacy.  These values are universal and long lasting like the Asari themselves.

Salarian

A race that specializes in intel.... basically every secret society or spy agency...

Hanar

Evangelical Christians, the nice kind, almost everything revolves around their creator (the Enkindlers) but their not so pushy about it that it blinds them, they have a heart as well... they did save the Drell from permanent extinction. Even letting them live among the Hanar as equals on their own homeworld.

Elcor

???.... not much to say about them.

Krogan:

Klingons... well... real world equivalent? The Afghans.
Honor above all else, were used to fight a big enemy, then were turned on and obliterated. Now they fight for the highest bidder (US, Al-Qaeda/Taliban, and Afghan goverment), interchangeably at will. Usually fight each other which just emphasizes more the Afghan problem of each area having their own warlord. Their homeplanet (or Afghanistan) was destroyed twice (Soviet then themselves) in (Mass Effect it was themselves than Turians). and they both still lie in ruins.

Modifié par NeoGuardian86, 10 février 2010 - 10:36 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

binaryemperor wrote...

jerryl wrote...
Reapers - USA

LOL, which part are you referring to, the mindless destruction part, or the "better than all life" part?

The singular purpose of reaping the resources of the world and using "lesser" nations as pawns in their corrupt plans for dominance, I think.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Dethateer wrote...
Hey, tell you guys what: you come live over here, in Eastern Europe for a year, and then tell me if the Quarians still remind you of gypsies.

Too true. People that think that the Quarians remind them of gypsies have likely never seen a gypsy, or had a family or three of them living in their town.

[sgrzadka]

this is the absolute worst thread ever and is destined for disaster.

[Forest03]

@ Blank1 - While I find your concept of gypsies humorously stereotypical, thank you for your statements supporting my own ideas of how much of their culture parallels the ancient Hebrews.



@ KnightOfPhoenix - Thanks for the historical tidbits. A concession, perhaps, is in order. I still don't like the gypsy comparisons going around, but there are enough characteristics in the Quarians to compare to a nomadic history - from the different tribes or families, to the practice of sending individuals who have "come of age" to go out into the world and bring back something of cultural, technological, or monetary value.



Now that I think about it, the latter would support the Quarian lore being based partly on Mediterranean and North African traders and nomads, more so than the Volus as I had proposed earlier. Some of the Volus remind me of used car salesmen '



Anyways.



@ sgrzadka - Only if the focus shifts to ignorant stereotypes. Sit in for the history lessons (though some of them are bound to contain inaccuracies).

[Big Yam]

Turians = ****s.  Always on guard duty with long rifles, and Garrus looks like some Colonel Klink with his monacle.

Vorcha = 80's street gangs

[wako58]

sgrzadka wrote...

this is the absolute worst thread ever and is destined for disaster.

QFT....clearly the moderators aren't viewing this forum cause this thread would have been shut down.  Full of fail.

Modifié par wako58, 11 février 2010 - 12:20 .

[Malificis]

wako58 wrote...

sgrzadka wrote...

this is the absolute worst thread ever and is destined for disaster.

QFT....clearly the moderators aren't viewing this forum cause this thread would have been shut down.  Full of fail.

lol no. free speech? this is a discussion not a flame war. take it elsewhere.
bioware most likely had some inspiration for the RACES they created in the FUTURE MASS EFFECT UNIVERSE, WHICH IS THE FUTURE OF OUR OWN. discussion is fine.

[wako58]

Malificis wrote...

wako58 wrote...

sgrzadka wrote...

this is the absolute worst thread ever and is destined for disaster.

QFT....clearly the moderators aren't viewing this forum cause this thread would have been shut down.  Full of fail.

lol no. free speech? this is a discussion not a flame war. take it elsewhere.
bioware most likely had some inspiration for the RACES they created in the FUTURE MASS EFFECT UNIVERSE, WHICH IS THE FUTURE OF OUR OWN. discussion is fine.

Wow....I see you've learned how to use the caps lock key, congratulations.  Next time you can work on coherent sentences.

[Ibby1kanobi]

fanman72 wrote...

 
Quarians - European gypsies
Volus - Jews
Batarian - Some muslim extremist rogue state
Krogan - Mongol hordes from hundreds of years ago

I'm Muslim and I find likening us to Batarians is funny....seeing as how most of the world sees America/Americans as extremists (you relialize that most of the world hates America)....

Racism=Not Fun.


P.S. Did you know, by the way, that a US soilder was convicted of kidnapping, holding, and executing 5 civilian Iraqis a few months ago? He got 5 months in jail....and Muslims are the terrorists....

BTW, this isn't the only incident, there have been many, but our media doesn't report on it.

Modifié par Ibby1kanobi, 11 février 2010 - 12:44 .

[ManBearPig91]

Ibby1kanobi wrote...
I'm Muslim and I find likening us to Batarians is funny....seeing as how most of the world sees America/Americans as extremists (you relialize that most of the world hates America)....

Racism=Not Fun.

Americans, much like the batarians, are adept at hi-jacking large flying objects and crashing them into civillian population centers.

[Ibby1kanobi]

Chief Savage Man wrote...

Abirn wrote...

Chief Savage Man wrote...

The volus are skilled at finance but hold little military power, much like the Jewish people for most of history. That being said, this thread is headed for disaster.

Israel has one of the most well trained and kick ass armies in the entire world......

That's why I said most of history. Before Israel's ascension, it had been millenia since there was a unified Jewish state with real power.

Their army isn't kick ass. They're terrorists. It's not hard to win battles when you have F-15s fighting bi-planes, or machine guns against rocks.

[Ibby1kanobi]

ManBearPig91 wrote...

Ibby1kanobi wrote...
I'm Muslim and I find likening us to Batarians is funny....seeing as how most of the world sees America/Americans as extremists (you relialize that most of the world hates America)....

Racism=Not Fun.

Americans, much like the batarians, are adept at hi-jacking large flying objects and crashing them into civillian population centers.

No, they're adapt at bombing civilians back to the stone age for no good reason. You've committed 100 9-11s against Iraqis up till now.

You invaded Iraq for 2,000 lives, even though they had no connection to the terrorist attacks. You've killed 200,000, and you're surprised why some would fly planes into buildings?

[Malificis]

wako58 wrote...

Malificis wrote...

wako58 wrote...

sgrzadka wrote...

this is the absolute worst thread ever and is destined for disaster.

QFT....clearly the moderators aren't viewing this forum cause this thread would have been shut down.  Full of fail.

lol no. free speech? this is a discussion not a flame war. take it elsewhere.
bioware most likely had some inspiration for the RACES they created in the FUTURE MASS EFFECT UNIVERSE, WHICH IS THE FUTURE OF OUR OWN. discussion is fine.

Wow....I see you've learned how to use the caps lock key, congratulations.  Next time you can work on coherent sentences.

Point still stands, fool.
No, this is the internet. I got my point across. will save coherent and structured prose for essays -.-

[wako58]

I see you expanded your vocabulary as well. Another plus for you. Keep working at it you might acutally learn something. Oh, and by the way...its better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt. We no longer have an doubt about you.

Modifié par wako58, 11 février 2010 - 01:14 .

[ManBearPig91]

Ibby1kanobi wrote...

ManBearPig91 wrote...

Ibby1kanobi wrote...
I'm Muslim and I find likening us to Batarians is funny....seeing as how most of the world sees America/Americans as extremists (you relialize that most of the world hates America)....

Racism=Not Fun.

Americans, much like the batarians, are adept at hi-jacking large flying objects and crashing them into civillian population centers.

No, they're adapt at bombing civilians back to the stone age for no good reason. You've committed 100 9-11s against Iraqis up till now.

You invaded Iraq for 2,000 lives, even though they had no connection to the terrorist attacks. You've killed 200,000, and you're surprised why some would fly planes into buildings?

Wait... I thought they flew planes into the world trade center before Iraq, or am I just confused? And when did I ever say that I was an American?

I admit it's important to remember what a great guy Sadam was. There were rainbows and chocolate rivers and gum drop trees in Iraq before the US invasion. More importantly the children all frolicked in the street. It's not like Sadam ever gassed the kurds or invaded Iran or Kuwait or anything crazy like that.

And after the united states invaved, there was never a civil war between the Iraqis or anything. Nobody ended up dead because they decided to blow up eachother's mosques.

[ManBearPig91]

Modifié par ManBearPig91, 11 février 2010 - 01:03 .

[ManBearPig91]

Ibby1kanobi wrote...

ManBearPig91 wrote...

Ibby1kanobi wrote...
I'm Muslim and I find likening us to Batarians is funny....seeing as how most of the world sees America/Americans as extremists (you relialize that most of the world hates America)....

Racism=Not Fun.

Americans, much like the batarians, are adept at hi-jacking large flying objects and crashing them into civillian population centers.

No, they're adapt at bombing civilians back to the stone age for no good reason. You've committed 100 9-11s against Iraqis up till now.

You invaded Iraq for 2,000 lives, even though they had no connection to the terrorist attacks. You've killed 200,000, and you're surprised why some would fly planes into buildings?

Wait... I thought they flew planes into the world trade center before Iraq, or am I just confused? And when did I ever say that I was an American?

I admit it's important to remember what a great guy Sadam was. There were rainbows and chocolate rivers and gum drop trees in Iraq before the US invasion. More importantly the children all frolicked in the street. It's not like Sadam ever gassed the kurds or invaded Iran or Kuwait or anything crazy like that.

And after the united states invaved, there was never a civil war between the Iraqis or anything. Nobody ended up dead because they decided to blow up eachother's mosques.

[ManBearPig91]

Ibby1kanobi wrote...

ManBearPig91 wrote...

Ibby1kanobi wrote...
I'm Muslim and I find likening us to Batarians is funny....seeing as how most of the world sees America/Americans as extremists (you relialize that most of the world hates America)....

Racism=Not Fun.

Americans, much like the batarians, are adept at hi-jacking large flying objects and crashing them into civillian population centers.

No, they're adapt at bombing civilians back to the stone age for no good reason. You've committed 100 9-11s against Iraqis up till now.

You invaded Iraq for 2,000 lives, even though they had no connection to the terrorist attacks. You've killed 200,000, and you're surprised why some would fly planes into buildings?

Wait... I thought they flew planes into the world trade center before Iraq, or am I just confused? And when did I ever say that I was an American?

I admit it's important to remember what a great guy Sadam was. There were rainbows and chocolate rivers and gum drop trees in Iraq before the US invasion. More importantly the children all frolicked in the street. It's not like Sadam ever gassed the kurds or invaded Iran or Kuwait or anything crazy like that.

And after the united states invaved, there was never a civil war between the Iraqis or anything. Nobody ended up dead because they decided to blow up eachother's mosques.