104 réponses à ce sujet

[Vaenier]

How do I get more then 100% Paragon? Moronda is still pouting and I cant pick the blue option.

[The Red Winger]

We've had a discussion about this with Kim Stoltz in the technical fourum

http://social.biowar...97668/4#1668021

The bottom line is that the system works on a percentage basis. As you progress the game keeps track of all paragon/renegade options you have available and which ones you choose. Therefore as you get further in the game and more points are available the choices get more difficult, The reason you usually don't have a problem on the ME1 import character is that you get a large bonus to your scores essentially skewing the percentage tables. You don't get this bonus on a new NG+ character. I've commented a couple times in the other thread but it boils down to a system where if you don't play a hardline paragon or renegade and pick the 100% skill not the 70% you will have a very diificult time resolving a cat fight between two women who you have helped immensly and possibly even romanced.

Modifié par The Red Winger, 12 mars 2010 - 12:35 .

[The Red Winger]

Vaenier wrote...

How do I get more then 100% Paragon? Moronda is still pouting and I cant pick the blue option.

@ this point it doesn't matter how many more points you get. You have fallen behind on the percentage available and the choice will never be available. It sucks but just the way they built it

Modifié par The Red Winger, 12 mars 2010 - 12:32 .

[slackbheep]

Edi: just saw the above post by The Red Winger. There's your answer folks~

Thats what you get for starting at level 30, cheaters.

Modifié par slackbheep, 12 mars 2010 - 01:11 .

[GenericPlayer2]

The display for maximum is different from true maximum - about 500 points difference. Others have edited their save games to confirm this - but perhaps the percentage mechanic is always in effect and there is no true maximum.

I have succeeded at the renegade persuade for this fight but you really need to ferret out all the renegade opportunities in the game (like treating Jacob like sh*t in all conversations - not hard tho!). But keep in mind I was still able to miss out on a few renegade opportunities due to my gameplay strategy like re-writing the Geth, picking Samara over Morinth, or keeping the research data from Mordin's assistant. Also, keep in mind telling Reegar to keep firing at the Colossus (+15 renegade points right there) does not kill him, if you take a really really long time killing the Colossus then he dies. From Casual to Insanity, the only time he died was when I intentionally twiddled my thumbs until the Colossus started firing at him instead of me.

Also, because the display is not accurate like I mentioned, don't ease off the renegade opportunities once you get a full bar. .

Modifié par GenericPlayer2, 12 mars 2010 - 01:36 .

[Hammer_Of_God]

Meh. Whatever happined to roleplaying your character instead of focusing on min-maxing your game to achieve an optimal result?
I thought ME2 was a roleplaying game... <_<

Guess I'll just never play the ME2 import if these are the problems you run into for opting to play a real character instead of being rail-roaded into either playing a complete jackass, or a Mother Therissa wanabee

[PingoBlack]

Hammer_Of_God wrote...
Guess I'll just never play the ME2 import if these are the problems you run into for opting to play a real character instead of being rail-roaded into either playing a complete jackass, or a Mother Therissa wanabee

But you are talking about controling your character, not roleplaying.

If you roleplay, i.e. do what you wish, you get to feel consequences. Some bad, sure, but your choices caused that effect. You want to do opposite, you want to direct your character, not play. And that makes sense. You want a specific result. But you are unwilling to do what game mechanics require for that result. The very essence of roleplaying is to have unavoidable consequences of your actions, isn't it?

TBH, this argument is as valid as Zero Punctuation complaining the game is too easy. Finding the dificulty slider and using it, it's not really developers fault he didn't, but complaining about it still made Yahtzee seem like the bloody idiot he always complains about in his reviews.

[GenericPlayer2]

Hammer_Of_God wrote...

Meh. Whatever happined to roleplaying your character instead of focusing on min-maxing your game to achieve an optimal result?
I thought ME2 was a roleplaying game... <_<

Guess I'll just never play the ME2 import if these are the problems you run into for opting to play a real character instead of being rail-roaded into either playing a complete jackass, or a Mother Therissa wanabee

I don't normally have to resolve this dispute because I don't indulge in a Talimancer cover-up at her trial. Still though, people play the game over and over and try different things to unlock all the content. I paid for the game, there is no reason for me to not want to experience all the content it has to offer. But really, other than that, I get by fine without Tali's loyalty.

[Ecael]

Hammer_Of_God wrote...

Meh. Whatever happined to roleplaying your character instead of focusing on min-maxing your game to achieve an optimal result?
I thought ME2 was a roleplaying game... <_<

Guess I'll just never play the ME2 import if these are the problems you run into for opting to play a real character instead of being rail-roaded into either playing a complete jackass, or a Mother Therissa wanabee

No one is forcing you to play a perfect Paragon or Renegade. However, there are consequences for not doing so.

Shepard's persuasive abilities are directly linked to his attitude toward others and toward specific situations. His behavior is shaped by those attitudes -- and vice versa. You are given control of influencing his behavior, but not the other.

[DMC12]

It may seem like you have 100% renegade/paragon, but really you have something like 98% renegade/paragon. I missed the first persuasion option in the fight and went with Legion, even though I was positive that I was 100% renegade. I couldn't talk some sense into Tali afterwards either, so I had to run around the ship and be a complete d**k to my squad mates, accumulating 2-5 renegade points before the option was available to me.

A lame system, if you ask me, they should have had it so that each bar represents a persuasion difficulty if they were going to scrap the charm/intimidate point system. But that's just my opinion.

[Hammer_Of_God]

@ Pingo Black

Mmmm... I see your point your trying to make, & in essence your definition there is correct.
That being said however, ME does tend to attempt to force you to choose a particular path, either black or white, for optimal game play - an aspect of the game I've always strongly disliked & avoided to some extent, always opting for either the paragon or renegade option that I feel best suits & reflects on who my Shepard is, instead of always picking renegade or only paragon for best results.
I don't mind the fact that in doing so I may go for a bad option which inevitably will have bad consequences - thats always alright by me & makes roleplaying enjoyable. I do mind however when a game is structured in such a manner that it encourages you to stick to one line of thinking, & one line of thinking only, to beat the game.

Either way, I've come out of both ME1 & ME2, full squad (barring the character you cant avoid sacrificing in ME1 of course), with no real problems using my approach. So dont mind me, I'm just griping I still adore the game even though I'll never be a fan of the paragon/renagade system.

Modifié par Hammer_Of_God, 12 mars 2010 - 03:01 .

[GenericPlayer2]

Hammer_Of_God wrote...

@ Pingo Black

Mmmm... I see your point your trying to make, & in essence your definition there is correct.
That being said however, ME does tend to attempt to force you to choose a particular path, either black or white, for optimal game play - an aspect of the game I've always strongly disliked & avoided to some extent, always opting for either the paragon or renegade option that I feel best suits & reflects on who my Shepard is, instead of always picking renegade or only paragon for best results.
I don't mind the fact that in doing so I may go for a bad option which inevitably will have bad consequences - thats always alright by me & makes roleplaying enjoyable. I do mind however when a game is structured in such a manner that it encourages you to stick to one line of thinking, & one line of thinking only, to beat the game.

Either way, I've come out of both ME1 & ME2, full squad (barring the character you cant avoid sacrificing in ME1 of course), with no real problems using my approach. So dont mind me, I'm just griping I still adore the game even though I'll never be a fan of the paragon/renagade system.

I can see why people think the game is forcing them down one path or the other. But that is not really the case. You do not need every single person in the squad to be loyal to beat the game without any casualties. Renegade/Paragon persuasion options with Legion/Tali, Miranda/Jack and Tali's trials are there as cop outs, you don't take a side or take a position. The fact is, having either Tali or Legion loyal is good enough, having Samara or Jack loyal is good enough. I have even finished the game, no casualties, with one disloyal person and 2 people not recruited. Trying to have every single person loyal is just completionist mentality.

[DiatribeEQ]

Ackillez wrote...

DiatribeEQ wrote...

100% Paragon. No issues. Guess it pays to be a good guy, eh?

Seriously though, not sure why you'd have a problem.

Lol, resolving it with paragon is a walk in the park...I had sufficient paragon to resolve it with that with a full renegade meter on the side. Doesn't change things. System has become horribly stupid.

Actually, you see more and more folks taking the Renegade route as it often tends to be the "easier" solution to most situations.  Interrogation scene?  Done in what?  3 steps?  Paragon?  about 12.  Go to do the 1st mission that'd get Grunt?  The wounded merc?  You "resolve" his dialogue in about 4 steps as Renegade versus the 7 as Paragon.

[enormousmoonboots]

I think one reason people are having trouble with NG+ is that you don't get a P/R import bonus for it, unlike importing an ME1 character.

[Alratan]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

I can see why people think the game is forcing them down one path or the other. But that is not really the case... Trying to have every single person loyal is just completionist mentality.

It's more than merely completionist mentality. The game basically decides for the player that their Shepard is less capable, less charismatic and ultimately, less good if they aren't 100% paragon/renegade. It's not forcing the player down the path, but it's penalising each player's Shepard and thus how cool they think their Shepard is (which is a big part of roleplaying an elite commander) for not doing so. That's just poor design.

[Akeashar]

Thats one reason why I miss the skill set from ME1 of Charm or Intimidate, and the conversation options they unlocked. And its the main reason I'm not going to NG+ with ME2, because having access to all heavy weapons at the start is a sad trade off to starting with almost a bar paragade from importing.

[NYG1991]

ME2 import im able to paragon the jack/miranda catfight if i have 80%paragon and virtually 0 ren. i svae jacks mission for last one before IFF and respec from commando to shock trooper before going into it so that puts me so its pretty much filled. ive been plying paragon mostly so not sure about tali/legion renegade argument but i think its the same idea. on NG+ you hav to be COMPLETELY renegade to do the hardest renegade dialogue. i had the issue with NG+ trying to settle the catfight once i was high paragon but i had about 3/4 of a bar of renegade that might have messed me up.

[poisonoustea]

I can just imagine I'll have to start a new game to get the 'vital' Paragon option available during the Kasumi DLC. Ohhhhhh that's so fun.

[Geiyu]

Yeah, I've had this problem. But it...oddly enough...only happens between Legion and Tali for me. I can resolve the dispute between Jack and Miranda fine with my Renegade. Even on a NG +. Hell, I can even tackle Samara's mission, and get to intimidate Morinth all the way. Get 100% Renegade, always choosing Renegade options...and then I can't intimidate on the Legion and Tali dispute.



The biggest curve ball this hurls me is this: My Paragon does NOT have this issue. Ever. Never. She can ALWAYS charm all the situations. My Renegade can't intimidate the Tali and Legion dispute, but handles everything else just fine. Guess it's a trade off, my Paragon can't make it through the suicide mission without at least one person croaking, whereas my Renegade has never lost anyone. I'm so confused.

[Pacifien]

Geiyu wrote...

Yeah, I've had this problem. But it...oddly enough...only happens between Legion and Tali for me. I can resolve the dispute between Jack and Miranda fine with my Renegade. Even on a NG +. Hell, I can even tackle Samara's mission, and get to intimidate Morinth all the way. Get 100% Renegade, always choosing Renegade options...and then I can't intimidate on the Legion and Tali dispute.

The biggest curve ball this hurls me is this: My Paragon does NOT have this issue. Ever. Never. She can ALWAYS charm all the situations. My Renegade can't intimidate the Tali and Legion dispute, but handles everything else just fine. Guess it's a trade off, my Paragon can't make it through the suicide mission without at least one person croaking, whereas my Renegade has never lost anyone. I'm so confused.

It's because the Jack/Miranda fight is supposed to be easier to resolve as a renegade while Legion/Tali is supposed to be easier to resolve as a paragon. Also, you don't need everyone's loyalty to make it through the suicide mission, you just have to make the right choices.

Bioware developer Kim Stolz described the process awhile ago, and I recently collected that information in a thread here.

I also wrote what you needed for a guaranteed 100% survival rate on a suicide mission on my blog here. It's a little more detailed than the thread that's stickied on the forum.

[andy christo]

I'm playing on the 360, importing a ME1 Shepard. The first time I played through I was almost full renegade, and was able to use the renegade dialog option to settle Tali and Legion's fight.
The second time I played through (recently... Like as in yesterday) I was almost full renegade again, but wasn't allowed to choose the renegade option. I'm using the same character I did last time, but I'm not doing new game+, I imported the character again (to change job class and play on a higher difficulty). I have been able to use every previous renegade dialog option in previous conversations/events (even Jack and Miranda's fight).

I was distressed at first, but I was able to regain Legion's loyalty by talking to him after the argument.
I just wanted to hear Shepard's renegade speech. Something about crushing them under her heel. I liked that speech.

Modifié par andy christo, 18 juin 2010 - 09:35 .

[CroGamer002]

You have to blow up Geth Heretic base to get Renegade dialogue.

[Vaenier]

It is a flawed design [again]. It forces players to do those missions early before they want to, just to avoid the high level bug where you require more than full bars. Stop sitting there in denial and fix it already Bioware.

[Pacifien]

Vaenier wrote...
It is a flawed design [again]. It forces players to do those missions early before they want to, just to avoid the high level bug where you require more than full bars. Stop sitting there in denial and fix it already Bioware.

It's working exactly how they intended. They wanted something akin to the one or the other decision of Virmire, but this time they gave people a way out. Problem is, people always want the way out and feel the game is bugged when the choice isn't given to them. Goes to show if the developers want decisions to be like Virmire, they can't give anyone a way out and simply have to force the issue.

I've always thought the paragon/renegade feature needed an overhaul anyway. Not because of what happened with Jack/Miranda or Legion/Tali, but because it has far more potential to alter a story dramatically if the developers alter the environment and scenarios in response to your morality.

[Bluko]

I don't get it...

Seriously I don't think I've ever had a problem with Paragon/Renegade dialogue options in ME2. I don't think I've ever encountered a scenario in the game where I didn't have at least the one of the options. Heck lot of the time I usually have both options available and I tend to play mostly Paragon.

Waaayyyy better then ME1. Can't tell you how many times at the start of ME1 both Paragon/Renegade persuade options were blocked even though I invest primarily in Charm/Intimidate. I mean I would be maxed at Charm/Intimidate for my level and I still wouldn't be able to use either option. That was just stupid/annoying.

Never have that problem in ME2. Some of you must be playing way too Neutral or something, which desn't make sense to me. I mean I understand not playing pure Paragon or Renegade, but playing super Neutral makes Shepard seem like they are suffering from a split personality. So one minute you'll be all about working with Aliens diplomatically and then the next minute you'll shout about how bad Turians are?



Also why wouldn't you do Loyalty missions ASAP? The Characters tend to make them sound important. Personally I prefer to have each Squadmate's loyalty as soon as I can so I can level up their unique ability, and it makes them more viable in future missions as well. Just seems to me that Loyalty Missions would be more pressing then recruiting a new Squadmate most times.