47 réponses à ce sujet

[wowpwnslol]

When the old forums were active, Bioware stated that mages are not intended to run out of mana. To remove potions spamming you'd need to overhaul the entire mage class, possibly tying willpower to in combat mana regen. I don't think Bio will be doing that until DA2 - or at least DA expansion.

[Exalonn]

Poleaxe wrote...

The combat is based on MMO mechanics- cooldowns, shouts, instants, aoe's, dps vs. tanking. Perhaps you are not used to this?

I'm used to it, but it just doesn't feel right for me in a game where I want to pause and make my next move. Just doesn't feel right

[RetrOldSchool]

I can admit I can feel the potions are a little too spammable, there is no cooldown, though you can't take a potion while being stunned, overwhelmed etc and it is a short (though extremely short) while between downing potions.



I solved it by setting rules: I try to win every encounter without potions (on hard). If I have to use a potion, I usually reloads, except if I feel it was totally impossible to make it otherwise. If a character is downed (potions or no potions) that's also an instant reload.



The only fights this far when I had to use potions were Broodmother (I did it without neither Wynne nor Morrigan, so I didnt have much choice) and the boss in the Circle Tower (I had to use a mana potions for Wynne to be able to keep everyone healed).



Apart from that, reloading have always mad it possible to change tactics and beat the fight without potions.



But if you think the potions are too spammable in DA:O, then Fallout 3 is far worse, you can just pause the game, fill up all health with stimpaks and then unpause. And that's with stims that are actually something the character injects

[Nikatjef]

Greetings,



As stated above, if you are on a PC, you could use combat tweaks to fix the pot spam. One of the things they did in the combat tweaks add-on is make all of the healing pots use a shared cool down, same with the mana pots. Additionally, they have increased the cool down for these pools to something like 30 seconds.



Another thing about the combat tweaks system is that combat feels smoother and more balanced, and more challenging if you use the combat difficulty patch 2.

[Mlai00]

Yup, do yourself a favor and use Combat Tweaks.



And yes, I do feel high and mighty for playing PC games instead of Console games. Once you experience the liberation of game mods and community-made content, you can't go back.



And yes, I did play many console games, all the way up to PS2, XBox, and Wii.

[Sylixe]

cipher86 wrote...

It's hard to put my finger on what it is, but something just feels off.

The fact that the AI script the mobs use is one written for RPG's 20 years ago?  I am not sure it could be any easier to win encounters short of having a god mode turned on.

[Vansen Elamber]

Emissary's sometimes cast healing spells on themselves and other darkspawn, other then that I have not seen any healing from the enemy. And once you kill them and find a health poultice on them you begin to wonder why they had it in the first place....

[Sylvius the Mad]

wowpwnslol wrote...

When the old forums were active, Bioware stated that mages are not intended to run out of mana. To remove potions spamming you'd need to overhaul the entire mage class, possibly tying willpower to in combat mana regen. I don't think Bio will be doing that until DA2 - or at least DA expansion.

The original design called for potions only to increase regen rate - not just give you mana.  That would have solved these people's problems.

The original design also called for Lyrium to be addictive, so potions would become less effective the more you used them.  This, however, ran contrary to their plan to favour tactical planning over strategic planning under all circumstances, so they had to abandon it.

I still think it was a good idea.  I wish they'd used it.

[AlanC9]

Haven't the majority of RPGs featured potion spamming? OK, D&D-based games didn't have magic recharging potions, but they did have wands and scrolls, which do something quite similar.

[AlanC9]

As for the original design, I wonder if it failed in early playtesting.

[1varangian]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

The original design called for potions only to increase regen rate - not just give you mana.  That would have solved these people's problems.

The original design also called for Lyrium to be addictive, so potions would become less effective the more you used them.  This, however, ran contrary to their plan to favour tactical planning over strategic planning under all circumstances, so they had to abandon it.

I still think it was a good idea.  I wish they'd used it.

That sounds far better both lore wise and mechanics wise. Spammable potions just seem like a bandaid for a broken system. Winning or losing a tough fight should never come down to potions. I really hope the Bio-devs read threads like this.

[grieferbastard]

Try using both hands.



Or playing drunk.



Or playing sober if you always play after drinking.

[Andari_Surana]

There is a cool down on health poultices...i believe like 5 sevconds.  At leat in nightmare, dunno about other difficulties.  But...there are seperate cooldowns for each type of poulitice (lesser, normal, etc).  Also, you can't use health poultices if  u get stunned, grabbed, knockedown etc.  You'll need to rely then on a mage with the heal spell.  But the mage heal spell is spammable, as it has a 5 second cooldown.   Plus the mage can stack regeneration. 
Curse of mortality is the only strong counter that enemies can cast to the healing thats available.
 
 

[Schurge]

1varangian wrote...

Potions for sure are to blame. Players having access to basically unlimited healing also has the nasty ripple effect of enemies having super high health that is in no way proportionate to the PC's. That creates an action game type of feel mostly unwelcome in an RPG where the world is expected to make some sense.

The characters also seem to be lacking defense and talents to avoid being hit. Perhaps this has led to the need for health potions which in turn has led into enemies with exponential HP. Even enemy mages don't survive because of defensive spells but rather a huge HP pool which is painfully evident when you mana clash them. I would much rather see epic duels where equally skilled combatants clash steel for a longer time without actually drawing so much blood. Instead we have this potion chugging blood spilling festival of battle. Alistair beating a certain boss 1 on 1 solely thanks to the party's massive potion reserve was an epic duel turned into a huge anti-climax.

As far as mages are concerned, spells have rather short durations and mages toss them around instantly without recital AND cast their most powerful spells on repeat in every fight. This leads to a sort of fast food feel of magic. Seeing Inferno for the first time is awe inspiring. Use it in every encounter all the time after that and it gets old really fast.

I'd have no issue with potions being nerfed the heck up if it wasn't for the fact that I have no defencive or evasion abilities early in the game (besides those seemingly worthless 'stances')... and it doesnt look like I get them later either, and I am an offtank.

Its not like I can manually dodge, block, or parry - not saying they should be added, they don't fit with this combat system... but being melee bloody sucks.

Modifié par Schurge, 11 février 2010 - 08:44 .

[1varangian]

Schurge wrote...

1varangian wrote...

Potions for sure are to blame. Players having access to basically unlimited healing also has the nasty ripple effect of enemies having super high health that is in no way proportionate to the PC's. That creates an action game type of feel mostly unwelcome in an RPG where the world is expected to make some sense.

The characters also seem to be lacking defense and talents to avoid being hit. Perhaps this has led to the need for health potions which in turn has led into enemies with exponential HP. Even enemy mages don't survive because of defensive spells but rather a huge HP pool which is painfully evident when you mana clash them. I would much rather see epic duels where equally skilled combatants clash steel for a longer time without actually drawing so much blood. Instead we have this potion chugging blood spilling festival of battle. Alistair beating a certain boss 1 on 1 solely thanks to the party's massive potion reserve was an epic duel turned into a huge anti-climax.

As far as mages are concerned, spells have rather short durations and mages toss them around instantly without recital AND cast their most powerful spells on repeat in every fight. This leads to a sort of fast food feel of magic. Seeing Inferno for the first time is awe inspiring. Use it in every encounter all the time after that and it gets old really fast.

I'd have no issue with potions being nerfed the heck up if it wasn't for the fact that I have no defencive or evasion abilities early in the game (besides those seemingly worthless 'stances')... and it doesnt look like I get them later either, and I am an offtank.

Its not like I can manually dodge, block, or parry - not saying they should be added, they don't fit with this combat system... but being melee bloody sucks.

I'm thinking both Rogues and Warriors should probably have one more talent tree for active defense modes and talents. Or replace some of their overlapping or useless talents with defensive options.

[Jaulen]

Higher level as a rogue I don't get hit (but it's so annoying! she's always dodging fending off strikes and then she never gets to hit herself! Ah!) so I don't use many potions or healing spells myself (at higher levels), but the NPCs use them (especially my warriors, I usually toss them to the grinder, obviously I am not good at specking warriors)



I have seen enemy AI's chug down health potions. I didn't think they did, but I have seen enemies in mid fight pause, chug a potion and then, *whoosh* up went their health meter. And that's without combat mods.

[Ancastna]

I found the constant switching of characters to be a bit annoying. Especially when in Boss fights.

[ervanol]

Endless potions is endless health. I like it, because if this wasn't the case you need a healer. Healers in this game are mages with healing spells. When mages have to heal they cannot cast offensive spells. Also they have to save manna for their healing spells. In your standard party set up you need two mages, one for healing, the other for damage and crowd control. As it is now you can play the game without a healer.

Nevertheless when I beat an opponent but only after I have burned through almost all of my health potions it doesn't feel like victory, more like cheating. But one can also say, there is a balance issue. You have to enlarge your health bar in an artificial way, so you can outlast the fight.

Modifié par ervanol, 12 février 2010 - 10:46 .

[Challseus]

I would definitely have to agree with people that the potion system should be slightly rebalanced. Whether that's through limiting the actual number of them in the game, limiting how many you can carry, or extending the cooldown, I don't know. To balance things on the other side of the equation, I guess the overall damage output of enemies would have to be revised as well.

EDIT - I guess the combat tweak mod takes care of all of this?

Modifié par Challseus, 12 février 2010 - 02:49 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlanC9 wrote...

As for the original design, I wonder if it failed in early playtesting.

Without major changes to the rest of the game, it would have made DAO way harder.

[Doppelbock]

Ancastna wrote...

I found the constant switching of characters to be a bit annoying. Especially when in Boss fights.

I agree in a way - what would of been cool is being able to do a replay after ....with all the pausing and clicking and manuvering around and being successful and then having the chance to be able to see it all come together on a replay. Kinda like Warcraft...what do you think?

[Time Spiral]

@OP

DAO's combat system is not action. Maybe that's part of it?

It
was intended to be strategic, and is reliant on issuing orders either
while paused, live, or according to an "if, then" tactics engine. When
I press "attack!" it doesn't actually swing a sword, arc an axe, or
hammer, or fire an arrow.Pressing attack "starts the attack engine".

It doesn't feel like "action" is happening, really.
If I see someone winding up for a massive two-handed sweep, and I run away qu, I could be 15 feet away from the person and I STILL GET HIT!? Same thing with spells. Because the "hit" is calculated before the animation starts. There is no hit-detection occuring with the actual weapon, or anything like that. Feels and looks SUPER sloppy.

This is one of my biggest gripes with the combat system.

[Loc'n'lol]

Rulian wrote...

No, it's the fact that you can spam potions while your opponent can not use one, even bosses.

Considering that an elite npc has about 2-3 times as much health as a party member of the same class and level, I'd say it's like they all have an health potion intravenous dispenser...

Overall I'd rather have the combat be more 'fair' (gasp, yes, easier, I've said it) and be limited to maybe one potion for each fight.

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 12 février 2010 - 10:33 .