335 réponses à ce sujet

[nitefyre410]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

This all suddenly makes perfect sense, and as has been said is mostly common sense. I applied my common sense to the situation having just completed the game for the first time about an hour ago. I had all 11 squadmates, and all 11 were loyal. I did the following, and for the following reasons:

Legion in the vents (they wanted a tech expert, so it was either him, Mordin or Tali; I figured a near-emotionless geth was more expendable than one of the organic other choices, should it all have gone horribly wrong)

Samara as 1st strike team leader (she's badass and extremely experienced; Miranda even commented on how she was a good choice for a leader)

Samara as biotic specialist (seemed more dependable than Jack, who I figured might fly off the handle and join the battle herself)

Jacob as 2nd strike team leader (it was him or Miranda for me, and I figured he could take a hit better than Miranda could, what with his combat abilities and Barrier)

Tali took the crew back to the Normandy (the dialogue suggested it would be a clear run back, with no enemies, so I figured I'd keep her out of the line of fire because she's squishy)

Took Thane and Garrus to the final boss, because they're my boys.

That left Samara, Jack, Zaeed, Grunt, Mordin, Jacob, and Miranda holding the line, because Legion died after the first section.

______


I now realise that Samara was the wrong choice for the 1st strike team leader, which makes sense because she's worked alone for so many years. Now I think about it, the bits of speech that came through the radio from Samara during the first section sounded like she was having a hard time of it - from the cutscenes, her team was just her and Jack, with Legion in the vents. Pretty squishy team. By contrast, the second section had Jacob saying confident and positive things over the radio, suggesting he was having a much better time of it.



Anyway, I know where I went wrong now, and although I'm pretty ok with losing just one squadmate on my first run through, I don't mind going back through and quickly running the mission again, choosing Miranda as the first strike team leader.

 

Pick Miranda for the First strike leader and  He won't die. Samara while good choice, is not a Fire team leader... Miranda is a better choice because she knows how to keep it moving in Fire fight and the first section is all about SPEED.   

[Fredvdp]

Makes sense to me. In my first playthrough I sent Zaeed back to the Normandy and brought Garrus and Grunt to the boss. In my second attempt I sent Mordin back to the Normandy because he was the only one who died the first time and decided that the dedence team needed a leader like Garrus. I took Grunt to the boss but Garrus was good enough to get everyone out alive.

[Occams Razor 17]

Snowraptor wrote...

OMG, you guys havent played the first game have you, thats why you should always play the first game, especialy something like mass effect, this Why did he say Hold the line crap is down right silly into how you dont know that, just pathetic making all these theroys in characters and teamates when it was quoted by a Salarian you fought with in Mass Effect 1, and mordin was found of him, but hated speeches, unless your last dying words are to be loyal, We Held the line, our influence stopped the rachni, but before that, we held the line. Our inlfuence stopped the Krogan, but before that we held the line. In the battle today against saren and his geth, we will HOLD THE LINE! Clearly makes no sence why a dying salarian like mordin would say that, nope has to be something else.

Err....I must be missing something, because I didn't see anyone asking why Mordin says "hold the line."  Including me, whom you quoted a few posts up, and implied that that was what the OP was about.  Which is wrong, and suggests that you didn't take the time to even skim the OP before posting in here.  This thread is about why Mordin dies during the section of the suicide mission that is called Hold the Line. 

But if someone truly was confused as to why Mordin says "hold the line" or why this section of the suicide mission is called Hold the Line, you did a nice job kindly explaining it to them.

[Daeion]

I had everyone loyal, lost Thane in the begining, used Jack for my biotic, sent Zaeed back with the crew, and then took Samara and Tali with me for the last encounter, everyone survived

[Autoclave]

I've read somewhere that you shouldn't say "We'd better hurry". Some ppl say that Mordin is more susceptible to die in this case.

[Daeion]

Autoclave wrote...

I've read somewhere that you shouldn't say "We'd better hurry". Some ppl say that Mordin is more susceptible to die in this case.

I think I accidentaly picked that option and he lived.

[mattp420]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

...they wanted a tech expert, so it was either him, Mordin or ...

For future play through reference, bioengineer ≠ tech expert.

[vm323]

now i get why an unloyal Zaeed lived but an unloyal jack did not but mordin lived to which is wierd but w/e

[Kyero]

Fi anyone loyal died vits because your a bad leader.

[sheridanmovieguy]

Mordin never has major role in my suicide mission and he always lives. I mean...I guess he's supposed to be there. He's there in the big speech scene, but I never see him "holding the line", and he never dies. He's loyal and so is everyone else, and there are like seven other people with him I guess, so it makes sense why he lives.



If he dies it might have something to do with not upgrading his omni-tool maybe?

[Occams Razor 17]

sheridanmovieguy wrote...

Mordin never has major role in my suicide mission and he always lives. I mean...I guess he's supposed to be there. He's there in the big speech scene, but I never see him "holding the line", and he never dies. He's loyal and so is everyone else, and there are like seven other people with him I guess, so it makes sense why he lives.

If he dies it might have something to do with not upgrading his omni-tool maybe?

Who did you bring with you to the boss fight and who did you send back with the crew?

[Kyero]

If you chose anyone else but legion as tech spec, your a bad leader

[sheridanmovieguy]

First two times I sent Grunt back with the with the crew and brought Miranda and Tali with me to the last boss. The most recent time I sent Samara back and still took Miranda and Tali.

[MaaZeus]

Kyero wrote...

If you chose anyone else but legion as tech spec, your a bad leader

...or Tali. Both are gods of all tech.


In any case, OPs post does make sense. I always sent Mordin with my crew. While he is a soldier, he is a spec-op type AFAIK.  He isnt meant to tank down and "hold the line", he works in the background. Plus he is a doctor, and god knows your crew you saved needs one. To support Chakwas that is. It always made most sense to me this way. Everyone has survived so far. I only lost Jack once because I though she would make a good "distraction team leader". Thought she is an expert on causing havoc with her psycho attidute and insane biotic powers, perfect disctraction that is.

[StaR_JeS]

Great post, OP. Makes sense. Will now forever call that part in the game "Holding the Line."

[Occams Razor 17]

sheridanmovieguy wrote...

First two times I sent Grunt back with the with the crew and brought Miranda and Tali with me to the last boss. The most recent time I sent Samara back and still took Miranda and Tali.

I'm thinking Tali is considered squishy, so taking her with you helped the Line.  By the info, sending Grunt back should have made it more likely for someone to die, but did you have Zaeed?  I think he might have a high Hold the Line score, which would've helped.  I haven't downloaded him, so I can only go off of what others have said.

I'm thinking the ideal is something like this:
Tech: Tali, Legion
Leader: Miranda, Garrus
Biotics: Samara, Jack
Hold the Line: Grunt, Garrus, Zaeed
Crew/Boss Fight: Anyone squishy who you wouldn't want on the Line (Mordin, Tali, etc)

[Zhijn]

The random factor of Mordin's death or any other squishy is so tiny if you just do things the right way. Iv gone thru 3 games with same result, and everytime mordin & tali were on the "hole the line" and came out ok.

You can really only screw up if want it to screw up, or didnt pay attention of the roles your crew have.

Thats just my expirence.

Modifié par Zhijn, 11 février 2010 - 08:31 .

[stillnotking]

Well, it's nice to have the reason confirmed in the abstract, but it would take a lot of testing to determine exactly how this works in practice. For example, I have never had Mordin (or anyone) die in three playthroughs, despite only sending him as escort once. In my first playthrough I am fairly certain I took Grunt and Garrus on the final mission, although admittedly I could be remembering that wrong. Yet I've read posts from people who sent Mordin as escort in an effort to save him, and still had someone ELSE die on the line. (Usual scenario, everyone loyal, no deaths up to that point etc.)

I really would like to see the game's internal calculations as to who lives and dies. I understand it would be a spoiler, but that's what spoiler warnings are for. Hopefully either BioWare gives us the matrix, or fans are able to tease it out with datamining or repeated testing.

[hgroce15]

 Sucks for Mordin. He was the only one that died on my Insanity playthrough.

Loyal Miranda and Loyal Grunt were with me.
Loyal Tali escorted the group back.
Loyal Garrus, Loyal Zaeed, Loyal Jack, Unloyal Jacob, Unloyal Samara, Unloyal Thane, and Unloyal Legion all survived the Hold The Line area.
Unloyal Mordin died.

With this setup, I guess the only way I could replay it to try and get Mordin to live is to replace Loyal Grunt with Loyal Jack in my party. To give the Hold The Line group a higher score with a Loyal Grunt.

[hgroce15]

double post.

Modifié par hgroce15, 11 février 2010 - 08:45 .

[Kenthen]

This explains a lot. Still though, Zaeed must be crazy good at bunkering down since he's always been the only "tank" left holding the door for me since Garrus is with me and Grunt went back with the crew. Everyone was loyal though but still, makes me feel pretty lucky since I've never lost anyone.

Modifié par Kenthen, 11 février 2010 - 08:48 .

[KevinPage]

If I don't activate Grunt or Legion, will all the remaining member survive if they are loyal and you make the right choices ?

[Br0th3rGr1mm]

Balek-Vriege wrote...
......
Neither: Tali and Mordin

I'd consider Mordin one of the best Offensive crew.  His Incenerate melts armor like butter. 

[DuffyMJ]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

FFTARoxorz05 wrote...

Is there a wiki with these values? Somehow Zaeed, cofounder of a galaxy-wide organization, isn't a good leader and Legion isn't a good tech.  I don't really miss Zaeed, but Legion was cool.

Zaeed was held down by 6 of his own people and shot in the head. Not the sign of a good leader. Also if you listen to his tales, they often involve him being the only one who survived. Not the kind of guy you want to trust to keep your team alive.

Legion should have been just fine as your tech though. He's right at the top with Tali. If he died its probably because you picked a poor fireteam leader.

Garrus was a leader for 2 years and also was betrayed and had his whole squad killed.  He even tells Shepard it was his fault.

Everyone hates Miranda, especially Jack, because she's Cerberus.

People also express dislike towards Jacob even (Tali) because he's Cerberus.

The idea that Cerberus types would be good leaders is pretty dumb.  Miranda, especially considering she says "the best leader needs to command loyalty through experience" and is subsequently called a cheerleader and derided by Jack.  Lame-sauce.