335 réponses à ce sujet

[UBER GEEKZILLA]

wait but...i sent grunt to escort the crew...and mordin still lived in hold the line

[Gingeraids]

Skalman91 wrote...

XtremegamerHK47 wrote...

Skalman91 wrote...

I have a question:

How do I get everyone killed? I've tried, but I can't get my shepard to die!
There's always someone left to pull shepard up in the end...

No ship upgrades, no loyalties done, dont recruit Zaeed, make the worst choices possible on suicide mission.

But is it even possible to not get a single loyalty done? I tried and I couldn't get the horizon/IFF missions to trigger until I did some of them

It is possible to not get a single loyalty done. You can do Horizon as soon as you have a certain number of squadmates. On my third runthrough, I was given the Horizon mission after acquiring the first group except for Jack, and everyone was unloyal at the time.

The IFF mission is determined by how many missions you have done up to that point. (Theory anyways, not proven fact on my part) Doing assignments also count towards this 'countdown' in a sense. On my second run through, I had most of the squad loyal (Not Legion or Jack at this point), but the mission was triggered because I had done all of the Illium missions (like the ones for Liara), Loyalty missions for my other crew, and assignments for Normandy Crew (like getting Ice Brandy for Chakwas, the list for the chef/janitor etc etc)

[ebidebby]

Zaeed still does a bang-up job of holding the line, even when he's not loyal. I made all the right choices and didn't lose anyone, despite not having Zaeed and Jack's loyalties (had everyone else). I thought not having Jack's would doom someone, but she held the line just fine (and gave the status update). I took Mordin and Thane in for the final battle and sent the crew back with Tali, so I think that helped quite a bit.

Modifié par ebidebby, 30 mars 2010 - 05:02 .

[Maestro975]

Pardon if this already stated elsewhere, but will Tali or Legion still get killed if you pick Miranda, Jacob, or Garrus, but they're not loyal?

[Maestro975]

Gingeraids wrote...

Skalman91 wrote...

XtremegamerHK47 wrote...

Skalman91 wrote...

I have a question:

How do I get everyone killed? I've tried, but I can't get my shepard to die!
There's always someone left to pull shepard up in the end...

No ship upgrades, no loyalties done, dont recruit Zaeed, make the worst choices possible on suicide mission.

But is it even possible to not get a single loyalty done? I tried and I couldn't get the horizon/IFF missions to trigger until I did some of them

It is possible to not get a single loyalty done. You can do Horizon as soon as you have a certain number of squadmates. On my third runthrough, I was given the Horizon mission after acquiring the first group except for Jack, and everyone was unloyal at the time.

The IFF mission is determined by how many missions you have done up to that point. (Theory anyways, not proven fact on my part) Doing assignments also count towards this 'countdown' in a sense. On my second run through, I had most of the squad loyal (Not Legion or Jack at this point), but the mission was triggered because I had done all of the Illium missions (like the ones for Liara), Loyalty missions for my other crew, and assignments for Normandy Crew (like getting Ice Brandy for Chakwas, the list for the chef/janitor etc etc)

For Horizon to trigger, you need 4 recruits, this includes Zaeed. In order to get all 5, I go to Korlus after I leave Omega, but then I leave Grunt in the tank, and I wait until I've recruited Jack to wake him up.

After you complete Horizon, then you need to complete 5 "non-critical missions" in order to get the Collector Dreadnought mission to open up. Once Collector Dreadnought is complete, then Reaper IFF becomes available. So, yeah, just recruit Tali, Thane, and Samara, then do a couple sidequests.

You need 6 squadmates for Collector Dreadnought. If you have Zaeed, it's possible to skip Illium entirely. One wonders how Kasumi will offset this numbering.

[boogie]

I don't know if anybody seriously cares about this stuff anymore, but just from my experience:



Last weekend I beat the game and two died.

Yesterday I beat 1st mission much faster but legion still died. <load to beginning of mission>

Then I beat 1st mission ultra fast but legion still died.

Then I loaded game before entering Mass4 Relay, but this time I managed to kill the ball that enters my ship <having failed in my original play>

I chose Tali (instead of legion) to tube and Garrus (instead of miranda) to fire team, and eventually nobody died.



Now this is heavy speculation, but I got a strong feeling that

1. You need to kill that ball before it vanishes.

2. Need to pay attention to group chemistry: Even though Miranda's skills (cerb officer) give better squad bonus, she's a touchy primadonna just like Jack is. As opposed to Garrus, he is approved by everyone, as Miranda says "at least he knows what he's doing".



Any opinions or similar vibes?

[Coral Dayton]

I'm on my second run through of it (first time was on the 360, the second time is on the PC) and I got through the first run through with nobody dying. Jack was not loyal, but everybody else was (I did not have Zaeed due to only renting it so I didn't have the Cerberus Network). This is how my team was setup:



*Legion was the techn specialist who ran through the tubes.

*Garrus led the second fire team.

*Miranda and Jacob were my squadmates.



Second section where you go through the seeker swarms:



*Samara was the biotic.

*Garrus led the second team.

*Mordin took the crew back to the Normandy.

*Miranda and Jacob were my squadmates.



Against the Human/Reaper larva:



*Miranda and Jacob were my squadmates.



And with that, everybody survived.



This time around, I have everybody's loyalty, all ship upgrades, yadda yadda.



1st portion:



*Tali is the tech specialist getting cooked in a pressure cooker (aka ventilation systems)

*Garrus is the 2nd squad leader

*Miranda and Jacob were my squadmates.



2nd section:



*Jack is the biotic.

*Garrus is the 2nd team leader.

*Morinth takes the crew back to the Normandy.

*Jacob and Miranda are my squadmates.



Haven't decided who I'm going to bring with me to battle the reaper-hybrid.

[Digsy]

I just beat the mission for the first time yesterday. The whole "system" makes sense based on the outcome of my mission.

I went in to the final assault with all ship upgrades and all members loyal minus Jack (my paragon/renegade meters were all over the place so I never recovered her after her argument with Miranda).

For the first part, I had the following set-up:

Tech Specialist: Legion
2nd Squad Leader: Miranda
My Squad Mates: Garrus & Grunt

For the second part, I had the following set-up:

Biotic: Samara
2nd Squad Leader: Jacob
Escort: Garrus
My Squad Mates: Miranda & Thane

For the final part, my team looked like:

My Squad Mates: Miranda & Grunt
"Hold the Line": Mordin, Jack, Thane, Samara, Jacob, Legion & Tali

I had no idea about the need for strong defensive team members for holding the line or that you could get away with squishy team members for the boss fight. Clearly, I was all over the place with squad mate choices, only because I like their moxie.

Anyway, my final death tally was two members: Mordin and Jack. Based on everyone's explanations, it makes sense that I lose them as they are both squishies and Jack wasn't loyal. For a second, I thought I had lost Jacob as he took a round to the gut when we were closing the doors earlier but he just soldiered on.

Great discussion, interesting to see how you can get such different results in a game.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Figured this topic could do with a bump, maybe it could be stickied too. Might stop people asking the same questions over and over again?

[Arawn-Loki]

Even if you don't have a "Hold the Line" team of linebackers (Garrus, Grunt, Jacob, Zaeed), I'm almost entirely certain Mordin and Jack's high mortality rate "On the Line" and "Back to the Normandy" can be reduced if you get their tech and biotic upgrades, although based on my experience with an unloyal Samara, the hot potato can get passed to an unloyal squadmate; Samara consistently died on the line while Jack and Mordin lived if I got their upgrades and Samara was unloyal. For that matter, I think Samara was loyal on one of my playthroughs and died while Mordin and Jack lived.

Modifié par Arawn-Loki, 06 mai 2010 - 09:17 .

[Zombor]

On my last playthrough I sent Kasumi into the vents and she lived. I've seen a few people mention Kasumi doing the vents, but every guide lists Tali and Legion as the only tech specialists. Is this not widely known because she's only been in the game for a month, or have other people tried it and had her eat a rocket?

[scorptatious]

I was able to do Legion's loyalty mission before the Joker mission. All you have to do is talk to him immedietly after he has introduced himself and joined your team.

[Darker_than_black]

scorptatious wrote...

I was able to do Legion's loyalty mission before the Joker mission. All you have to do is talk to him immedietly after he has introduced himself and joined your team.

Yes, I did that as well.

I figured I might as well post my suicide mission details, mostly for fun ^^


*On this playthrough, everyone survived (except the crew ), and everyone was loyal.

Personal squad: Morinth & Zaeed

Tech Specialist: Kasumi Goto

Second team leader: Miranda


*Second section where you go through the seeker swarms:

Personal  Squad: Miranda and Zaeed

Biotic field: Morinth

Diverson team leader: Garrus

No escort was sent with the crew (so they died...noobs)


*Against the Human/Reaper larva:

Personal Squad: Miranda and Zaeed

Hold the Line: Everyone else

[mi55ter]

Great guide, thank you

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

One thing I found out the other day. If you don't bother recruiting Zaeed until after the IFF. Going to recruit him causes the abduction sequence to fire off after you've spoken to him and gone to head back to the Normandy.

So for anyone who might have sent Legion to Cerberus and not bothered about getting Zaeed's loyalty and wanting a quicker way to get the abduction sequence after the IFF mission, this is a good way of doing so without needing to do 2 missions after.

As for the earlier comment about Kasumi, probably due to her being recent and people not updating their posts.

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 07 mai 2010 - 03:06 .

[NKKKK]

OP, you can put Kasumi as the tech expert.

[MrNose]

Arawn-Loki wrote...

Even if you don't have a "Hold the Line" team of linebackers (Garrus, Grunt, Jacob, Zaeed), I'm almost entirely certain Mordin and Jack's high mortality rate "On the Line" and "Back to the Normandy" can be reduced if you get their tech and biotic upgrades, although based on my experience with an unloyal Samara, the hot potato can get passed to an unloyal squadmate; Samara consistently died on the line while Jack and Mordin lived if I got their upgrades and Samara was unloyal. For that matter, I think Samara was loyal on one of my playthroughs and died while Mordin and Jack lived.

I would love to know if the upgrades matter.  This deserves its own thread I think.  
It bothers me how the biotic upgrades don't seem to matter for the seeker swarm, and how the biotics you have on your squad during the seeker swarm sequence can't save themselves. 
I know that I really wish that damage and armour upgrades affected the "Hold the Line" score your team gets.

It would be cool if Shepard could get varying levels of scarring or damage depending on how many upgrades s/he got.  Or maybe if you get nothing s/he can die easier, or something. All of those heavy weaves should affect your role playing in some way. 

[Kenshen]

SL22 wrote...

I don't get why people assume that Mordin dying when chosen to go through the pipes and then gets shot even when loyal is a glitch, he's a biologist not a techy, it's pretty obvious that he's not suited for the task.

This plus I would add that Mordin is no longer young.  I recall someone saying his kind only live for an average of 40 years and I saw somewhere that Mordin is already pushing 50.  He is an old man and his skills are not what they once were.  Seeing how he is also a doctor I always send him back with the crew.  Figured if they needed medical attention he is the best at providing it.  I also can justify sending Tali back to help with any repairs still needed.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Question: If I have everyone but Tali loyal, have Kasumi escort and take Garrus and Miranda to the final battle, will everyone survive?

[khevan]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Question: If I have everyone but Tali loyal, have Kasumi escort and take Garrus and Miranda to the final battle, will everyone survive?

If Tali is unloyal, don't use her for the tubes, 'cause she'll die there, but if you leave Grunt and Zaeed on the "Hold the line" portion of the suicide mission, they should be enough to ensure everyone lives.  For added safety, Garrus has a good hold the line score, so it may be a good idea to bring, say, Thane to the final fight (he also has sniper rifles, and he has a warp you can use against the Collector's barriers) and leave Garrus on the line with Grunt and Zaeed.  Those three are the "heavy hitters" that'll help boost the score to keep everyone alive.

That should work, even with Garrus with you on the final fight.  I'd recommend saving just before choosing your squad and leaving Garrus behind if Tali dies.

[WereMops]

Snowraptor wrote...

OMG, you guys havent played the first game have you, thats why you should always play the first game, especialy something like mass effect, this Why did he say Hold the line crap is down right silly into how you dont know that, just pathetic making all these theroys in characters and teamates when it was quoted by a Salarian you fought with in Mass Effect 1, and mordin was found of him, but hated speeches, unless your last dying words are to be loyal, We Held the line, our influence stopped the rachni, but before that, we held the line. Our inlfuence stopped the Krogan, but before that we held the line. In the battle today against saren and his geth, we will HOLD THE LINE! Clearly makes no sence why a dying salarian like mordin would say that, nope has to be something else.

I think you're missing the point, the thing is Mordin says he "Doesn't understand the Hold the line thing, he'd rather just do the job and go home" ie implied that he wouldn't do whatever it takes to get the job done  (Hold the line). It's not about his dying words, which is "Tell them I Held the Line" (or something like that I think) but rather about a conversation you can have with him earlier when he remarks about Kirrahes fascination with Hold the line speaches

And yes I've played through Mass Effect 1 about 6 times and Mass Effect 2 10 times now I think (Different classes, gender, renegade/paragon) never lost anyone though, I always make sure I've got maxed renegade or paragon before doing any loyalty mission and I do all available missions before going for the IFF so I just have legions loyalty mission left after that

[Chimervera]

Don't know if you have this info already, but on the thread I originally posted this on it was suggested I cross-post here, so apologies if I'm going over stuff that's already been covered.

On the ME LJ comm today they posted scans from a magazine - it's a guide to the SM, and apparently the info is straight from Bioware. It has data such as who dies if you don't upgrade the Normandy, in order of likelihood, the order in which squaddies during the "hold the line" part are likely to die, etc.

Post is here, scans are here and here.

Modifié par Chimervera, 09 mai 2010 - 12:07 .

[JohnnyBeGood2]

1. On second playthrough I had Miranda do the shield (because she said she could!) and Jack died under her shield at the end (fail Miranda big-mouth).



2. I had Grunt escort the crew back and he survived.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

khevan wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Question: If I have everyone but Tali loyal, have Kasumi escort and take Garrus and Miranda to the final battle, will everyone survive?

If Tali is unloyal, don't use her for the tubes, 'cause she'll die there, but if you leave Grunt and Zaeed on the "Hold the line" portion of the suicide mission, they should be enough to ensure everyone lives.  For added safety, Garrus has a good hold the line score, so it may be a good idea to bring, say, Thane to the final fight (he also has sniper rifles, and he has a warp you can use against the Collector's barriers) and leave Garrus on the line with Grunt and Zaeed.  Those three are the "heavy hitters" that'll help boost the score to keep everyone alive.

That should work, even with Garrus with you on the final fight.  I'd recommend saving just before choosing your squad and leaving Garrus behind if Tali dies.

I sent Grunt back as the escort and took Thane to the final fight.. all survived.

[Khayness]

This "hold the line" hidden stats smells fishy. I got Thane on escort duty and Grunt&Zaeed with me to mow down the last boss, all survived. Deaths are random occurances and they are ashamed to admit it.