335 réponses à ce sujet

[Whailor]

I don't think that there's the absolute 100% right way and non-right way. If you do all loyalty quests and deck out the ship and select correct people for correct positions then the chances are boosted up significantly. There's probably still a small percentage left somewhere which may dictate that some "weaker" chars may - or may not - die during the "hold the line" moment. Obviously one would leave the strongest defenders back there since that would be the reasonable thing to do. It doesn't matter too much (except for the loyalty check part where platforms fall down) whom you take to fight the Reaper since the player char on it's own is a "powerhouse". So you can go there and take on the Reaper even without any other heavy hitter and with just the support chars.



Mordin seems to retain the small chance to die whenever he's left with the defensive team. It's not a rule of thumb, he can survive but he also has higher chance then the rest to die, it seems. From one side it's logical, he's not a "tank" type but from other side, he could just support the defenders (heals and such) without sticking his head into crossfire and should survive still. In any case, I usually send him with the team back to the ship. Way is cleared by my team so they (crew) don't need some heavy support, besides they may need medical assistance when on board and who else besides Chakwas can provide it then Mordin.



From technies I've heard that Kasumi can also be used in place of Tali or Legion. Haven't tried it yet myself but her profile suggests that it would work. In general you want to have the appropriate specialists on their duties to get the best results. Several chars have skills in few areas but it doesn't mean that they're very good at it. Few chars have biotics but only Samara (or Morinth) and Jack are specialists and thus provide the best shields. Several chars may sound like having experience with leading the teams but specialists in that area are Garrus, Miranda and Jacob.



As for loyalty. Why wouldn't you do the loyalty quests? First and foremost it means more XP. And then improves your companion. Heck it's a win-win situation in any case so there's no reason not to do them, unless you want to kill them all off or are just too lazy.

[hangmans tree]

On my suission I had everyone loyal. Nobody died.



Garrus was leading 2nd team, Samara took the shield job, Legion took a dive in the vent. Sent Jacob to escort the crew.

I was running around with Tali and Jack except for the final fight where Legion changed Jack and was sniping with his widow



No casualties.

[mi55ter]

Chimervera wrote...

Don't know if you have this info already, but on the thread I originally posted this on it was suggested I cross-post here, so apologies if I'm going over stuff that's already been covered.

On the ME LJ comm today they posted scans from a magazine - it's a guide to the SM, and apparently the info is straight from Bioware. It has data such as who dies if you don't upgrade the Normandy, in order of likelihood, the order in which squaddies during the "hold the line" part are likely to die, etc.

Post is here, scans are here and here.

What magazine is this from? It looks pretty legit.

[Pacifien]

Chimervera wrote...

Don't know if you have this info already, but on the thread I originally posted this on it was suggested I cross-post here, so apologies if I'm going over stuff that's already been covered.

On the ME LJ comm today they posted scans from a magazine - it's a guide to the SM, and apparently the info is straight from Bioware. It has data such as who dies if you don't upgrade the Normandy, in order of likelihood, the order in which squaddies during the "hold the line" part are likely to die, etc.

Post is here, scans are here and here.

That's awesome. The most interesting part is the order of deaths for the squad during the "hold the line" sequence. Garrus will die before Samara/Morinth, Legion, and Thane. But does that translate into his defense score with those squadmates having a higher score than him? It's always been assumed Garrus, Grunt, and Zaeed have had the highest scores.

[mi55ter]

Chimervera wrote...

Don't know if you have this info already, but on the thread I originally posted this on it was suggested I cross-post here, so apologies if I'm going over stuff that's already been covered.

On the ME LJ comm today they posted scans from a magazine - it's a guide to the SM, and apparently the info is straight from Bioware. It has data such as who dies if you don't upgrade the Normandy, in order of likelihood, the order in which squaddies during the "hold the line" part are likely to die, etc.

Post is here, scans are here and here.

Bumping this again. These links are too useful to be ignored!

[CC-Tron]

boogie wrote...

Now this is heavy speculation, but I got a strong feeling that
1. You need to kill that ball before it vanishes.
2. Need to pay attention to group chemistry: Even though Miranda's skills (cerb officer) give better squad bonus, she's a touchy primadonna just like Jack is. As opposed to Garrus, he is approved by everyone, as Miranda says "at least he knows what he's doing".

Any opinions or similar vibes?

Miranda's opinion is not always on point here. She says "at least he knows what he's doing" for Zaeed also but he's a poor choice. When choosing Jacob she pompously says "I hope your ready for command Taylor" even though Jacob has arguably more battle leadership experience in his past than she does. Later she suggests that any biotic could do the barrier mission  when you should choose only the best biotic squad members. She was right about the tech specialist though. Miranda may have been built for perfection but her judgement needs work.

Modifié par CC-Tron, 11 mai 2010 - 04:06 .

[Gundar3]

Minus Zaheed and Kasumi, it boggles my mind why those scans or something at least similar are not in the Prima guide.

[mi55ter]

Gundar3 wrote...

Minus Zaheed and Kasumi, it boggles my mind why those scans or something at least similar are not in the Prima guide.

As far as I know, they're not even in the Collector's edition guide...

[Fiery Phoenix]

I probably never mentioned this before, but on my first playthrough (which I finished a couple of weeks ago with everyone alive), I sent Thane to escort the crew back to Joker. Mordin was part of the hold the line team, and he still survived for me. My team for the final boss consisted of Grunt and Samara. I also had both Kasumi and Zaeed downloaded. I really don't know how it ended up that way for me; I guess I was just incredibly lucky. Even though now I realize that my choices weren't exactly the best.



Thought I'd point that out regarding Mordin being too vulnerable.

[mi55ter]

mi55ter wrote...

Chimervera wrote...

Don't know if you have this info already, but on the thread I originally posted this on it was suggested I cross-post here, so apologies if I'm going over stuff that's already been covered.

On the ME LJ comm today they posted scans from a magazine - it's a guide to the SM, and apparently the info is straight from Bioware. It has data such as who dies if you don't upgrade the Normandy, in order of likelihood, the order in which squaddies during the "hold the line" part are likely to die, etc.

Post is here, scans are here and here.

Bumping this again. These links are too useful to be ignored!

[Chimervera]

mi55ter wrote...

Chimervera wrote...

Don't know if you have this info already, but on the thread I originally posted this on it was suggested I cross-post here, so apologies if I'm going over stuff that's already been covered.

On the ME LJ comm today they posted scans from a magazine - it's a guide to the SM, and apparently the info is straight from Bioware. It has data such as who dies if you don't upgrade the Normandy, in order of likelihood, the order in which squaddies during the "hold the line" part are likely to die, etc.

Post is here, scans are here and here.

What magazine is this from? It looks pretty legit.

Sorry for the late answer - damn time zones!
It's in the June 2010 issue of Game Informer, according to the LJ post I saw these in.

Gundar3 wrote...

Minus Zaheed and Kasumi, it boggles my
mind why those scans or something at least similar are not in the Prima
guide.

I bought the CE guide, expecting it to be like the DAO guide, and was severely disappointed. The only things in it that are useful are the maps, the list of upgrades, and the planet scanning guide. In some cases, the guide actually gives misinformation! (The only examples I can think of without getting it out are that it says all squadmates will survive the SM if loyal - clearly wrong - and that Garrus is not a "real" romance, and it doesn't even mention Tali)

EDIT: This is an exact quote from the guide:
"The tech specialist you choose to unlock the door will die unless you have won their loyalty. The level and skills of the specialist are not a factor in their success"
And:
"There is a chance the leader of the second fire team is shot down just as the doors close."
That is all it says about the choices in the SM. Some guide, huh <_<

Modifié par Chimervera, 11 mai 2010 - 12:31 .

[Calesius]

Just got the "No One Left Behind" achievement on my 2nd playthrough!! What a rush that was! Kept saying "Don't you dare die to everyone!" Thanks for the guide, helped out a lot!

[Peppard]

That link and the guide in it ought to be stickied....that lays it out clearly and would save people from bumping old out of date posts

[BobRudell]

Every time my tech dies at the point where the door closes. I have all loyalties but Zaeed and Miranda and use only loyals on the valve opening part. What's going on???? Have played all the way through several times and that is the only casualty. Any explanantion???

[Xaraxiaxalexxa]

2 parts of that Game Informer guide are definitely wrong (I experienced this myself):



1.) THE LONG WALK

Who is your biotic specialist -> Jack, Samara, or Mornith -> Is she loyal? -> Yes -> Barrier holds with no casualties

Picking 'Anyone else' or 'No' = Barrier fails. One of the members in your current battle partie dies, determined randomly.

--> I don't think who dies is determined randomly. I was trying to kill Miranda by having her on my team while picking Thane as biotic specialist (knowing one of my 2 team members would die). Mind you, Miranda was not even loyal! So I made 4 runs:

Zaeed and Miranda: Zaeed dies

Miranda and Jacob: Jacob dies

Miranda and Jack: Jack dies

Jacob and Miranda (order reversed): Jacob dies again

So I am pretty sure the team member that dies is not picked randomly.



After that I was fed up with that biotic mission so I thought I would just pick her as team leader for the second fire team and since she was not loyal she would die that way. This brings us to



2.) Who is leading the second fireteam? (second time) -> Miranda, Jacob, or Garrus -> Is he/she loyal? -> yes -> Fireteam leader survives

Picking 'Anyone else' or 'no' = Fireteam leader dies

Wrong again! I did this twice with an unloyal Miranda as fire team leader, but each time she survived!

So this should be:

A loyal Garrus and Jacob will survive as fire leaders, Miranda will survive in any case (although I haven't tested with unloyal Jacob or Garrus yet)

[Skeane12]

Xaraxiaxalexxa wrote...

2 parts of that Game Informer guide are definitely wrong (I experienced this myself):

1.) THE LONG WALK
Who is your biotic specialist -> Jack, Samara, or Mornith -> Is she loyal? -> Yes -> Barrier holds with no casualties
Picking 'Anyone else' or 'No' = Barrier fails. One of the members in your current battle partie dies, determined randomly.
--> I don't think who dies is determined randomly. I was trying to kill Miranda by having her on my team while picking Thane as biotic specialist (knowing one of my 2 team members would die). Mind you, Miranda was not even loyal! So I made 4 runs:
Zaeed and Miranda: Zaeed dies
Miranda and Jacob: Jacob dies
Miranda and Jack: Jack dies
Jacob and Miranda (order reversed): Jacob dies again
So I am pretty sure the team member that dies is not picked randomly.

After that I was fed up with that biotic mission so I thought I would just pick her as team leader for the second fire team and since she was not loyal she would die that way. This brings us to

2.) Who is leading the second fireteam? (second time) -> Miranda, Jacob, or Garrus -> Is he/she loyal? -> yes -> Fireteam leader survives
Picking 'Anyone else' or 'no' = Fireteam leader dies
Wrong again! I did this twice with an unloyal Miranda as fire team leader, but each time she survived!
So this should be:
A loyal Garrus and Jacob will survive as fire leaders, Miranda will survive in any case (although I haven't tested with unloyal Jacob or Garrus yet)

Miranda cant die before the end of the mission loyal or not

[TudorWolf]

Miranda has plot armour, as she has dialogue in the cutscene after that, so taking her on the long walk bit will automatically lead to the other squadmate being the one taken by swarms (she can be taken on occasion (this is a glitch mind) but she'll just magically reappear after regardless)

She survives as team leader even when unloyal for the same reason. Basically, she's too stubborn to die XD

Modifié par TudorWolf, 12 mai 2010 - 12:14 .

[Pacifien]

The only time the squadmate taken by the seeker swarm is not random is if you have Miranda in the group. She is also the only squadmate who works as the second fire team leader while unloyal.* People have managed to kill her with the seeker swarms by exploiting a glitch, but otherwise, you just have to wait until you either leave her to hold the line or take her (unloyal) to the last battle.

* Ecael's Worst Playthrough thread mentions a special scenario where other nonloyal/non-optimum squadmates manage to make it through alive as the second fire team leader.

Modifié par Pacifien, 12 mai 2010 - 01:15 .

[Heather Cline]

Meh... my very first play through no one died. The actual fact is no one will die as long as everyone is loyal before going through the omega 4 relay. The official strategy guide says so, it's hinted at in the dialogue in game and so on and so forth. Hell Jacob constantly tells you after you complete his loyalty mission that if everyone is to survive going through the relay and the mission everyone's loyalty missions need to be completed. As such make everyone loyal, and the whole tali/legion face off use the paragon or renegade options when the dialogue comes up, same for the miranda/jack face off. That done make sure Zaeed is loyal, either by killing off everyone in the refinery or having a high enough paragon score to talk him into being loyal.



That said, there isn't any reason why your entire squad cannot survive the game.

[Pacifien]

Heather Cline wrote...
Meh... my very first play through no one died. The actual fact is no one will die as long as everyone is loyal before going through the omega 4 relay. The official strategy guide says so, it's hinted at in the dialogue in game and so on and so forth. Hell Jacob constantly tells you after you complete his loyalty mission that if everyone is to survive going through the relay and the mission everyone's loyalty missions need to be completed. As such make everyone loyal, and the whole tali/legion face off use the paragon or renegade options when the dialogue comes up, same for the miranda/jack face off. That done make sure Zaeed is loyal, either by killing off everyone in the refinery or having a high enough paragon score to talk him into being loyal.

That said, there isn't any reason why your entire squad cannot survive the game.

You can have people die even when the entire group is loyal. I've done the suicide mission before specifically geared toward seeing how many squadmates I could kill in spite of having all their loyalties.

Not only that, but it's possible to never get the paragon/renegade options during the Tali/Legion and Miranda/Jack confrontations. Depending on when you finish Miranda's and Jack's loyalty missions, it can be incredibly hard to get the morality check for them.

It's also possible to bring everyone out of the suicide mission alive with only four squadmates loyal.

In spite of all the different outcomes, still felt the suicide mission wasn't varied enough in the end.

[MarchWaltz]

In the video I made (top link in my sig if you are curious) I wanted to kill off the whole team, so I did none of the loyalty missions.

On my first try, 2 people managed to survive.

Modifié par MarchWaltz, 12 mai 2010 - 01:54 .

[mi55ter]

TudorWolf wrote...

Miranda has plot armour, as she has dialogue in the cutscene after that, so taking her on the long walk bit will automatically lead to the other squadmate being the one taken by swarms (she can be taken on occasion (this is a glitch mind) but she'll just magically reappear after regardless)

She survives as team leader even when unloyal for the same reason. Basically, she's too stubborn to die XD

Even the Grim Reaper finds her cold and distant, lol

[Fiery Phoenix]

The only certain way to kill Miranda would be to a) have her unloyal and take her with you to the final fight against the Human-Reaper thingy. That way she'll DEFINITELY die after the fight when the platforms are destroyed. There may be one other way for her to die as well, but I don't know personally.

[Xaraxiaxalexxa]

what I forgot to mention is that after my failures to kill Miranda during the biotic mission and assigning her as team leader for the 2nd fire team while unloyal I finally managed to kill her off during the hold-the-line mission. I did it like this:

Gave Legion to Cerberus

Garrus was killed after being assigned specialist in the vent shafts

Jacob was killed during the biotic mission (Thane as biotic, Miranda and Jacob as squad mates)

Grunt was killed a 2nd fire team leader

Mordin was sent back to the Normandy with the crew

I took Zaeed and Jack as squad mates for the final fight with me

Miranda - being the only unloyal squad member - finally died during the hold-the-line part (the only one to die)

[mnomaha]

This is confusing. I didn't see anyone die, but there was a coffin in the ending. How do you tell who it belongs to if your stuck in a cut scene?