67 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

maxernst wrote...

I think the happiest ending for PC & Alistair would be to leave the throne to Anora, do the dark ritual and go off rebuilding the grey wardens together. Not sure if my PC will be comfortable with the Dark Ritual, though...I guess I'll see what Morrigan has to say when the time comes. If not, I will have a tragic ending...I'll sacrifice myself if Alistair is King, but otherwise it's probably going to be Alistair sacrificed. Sniff.

I did that on my first character and thought it would be a happy ending.  But it bothered me a lot to see Alistair disclaim the throne for himself and his heirs forever.  As long as he's alive, that throne belongs to him.

[RobinMichelleB]

Yeah, regardless of whether you put him on the throne or not, the people still see him as king. Still, I am rerolling my mage female in preparation for Awakenings and Ali is going to come rebuild the Wardens with me. I'm not giving up my man! Plus, it's not in my mage to make him do something he doesn't want to do. She felt trapped by the Circle all her life, so she would never force it on him. *snuggles unhardened (well, personality-wise :innocent:) Alistair*

Modifié par RobinMichelleB, 11 février 2010 - 08:00 .

[Sialater]

I don't mind my PC ending up Chancellor. It's not like she's leaving him to rule alone.

[errant_knight]

ejoslin wrote...

Alistair really doesn't get a happy ending. He's always the one having to make a tradeoff of some kind. He will always have to give up his blood right (hardened he wants it) or being a Grey Warden. And if he does the ritual, it bothers him a lot. Sadly, the happiest ending for Alistair is letting him sacrifice himself -- it gives him a hero's death, and he goes down in legend.

I have to disagree there, but then we disagree about pretty much everything in this game. Except for 'the blight is bad.' I think we agree there.

When Alistair is willing to look out for himself, he wants to be king. That's no longer a sacrifice. The ritual is pretty iffy to him, but is doesn't seem to scar him for life. I can only assume that Morrigan was correct, and he didn't find it as unpleasant as anticipated. So in the male PC ending, he's good to go. The female one is a little more problematic as he may have to give up the woman he loves for the sake of an heir--pretty sad, but you have the option of marrying him. In that case, the only real problem is an heir/concern about the results of the dark ritual. Both are worries, but neither is an obstacle to happiness.

Modifié par errant_knight, 11 février 2010 - 08:03 .

[Addai]

errant_knight wrote...
When Alistair is willing to look out for himself, he wants to be king. That's no longer a sacrifice. The ritual is pretty iffy to him, but is doesn't seem to scar him for life. I can only assume that Morrigan was correct, and he didn't find it as unpleasant as anticipated.

It depends on how you define "happy," probably.  In the post-coronation, he expresses both his discomfort at having to explain what happened to the other Grey Wardens, and his worry for what the ritual will mean in the future.  That's the "but at what cost" part.  We just don't know.  However, the fact is that even if you have an Alistair who's comfortable with being king, he's still got that demon-baby of Damocles hanging over his head.

Modifié par Addai67, 11 février 2010 - 08:29 .

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
When Alistair is willing to look out for himself, he wants to be king. That's no longer a sacrifice. The ritual is pretty iffy to him, but is doesn't seem to scar him for life. I can only assume that Morrigan was correct, and he didn't find it as unpleasant as anticipated.

It depends on how you define "happy," probably.  In the post-coronation, he expresses both his discomfort at having to explain what happened to the other Grey Wardens, and his worry for what the ritual will mean in the future.  That's the "but at what cost" part.  We just don't know, but the fact is that even if you have an Alistair who's comfortable with being king, he's got that demon baby of Damocles hanging over his head.

Exactly.  Not that I have anything else to add, but I wanted to say that because you explained it far better than I did.

[errant_knight]

To me, in a 'potential problem vs dead' situation, potential problem wins every time. Also people always have problems, these are a bit more on an epic scale than most, but if being problem free was necessary for happiness, there would be no happy person anywhere. I doubt Alistair broods like Hamlet over the demon child. he's just not a brooder, and some discomfort...well, maybe, but not very much, and he's in a pretty good mood. Over all, he seems pretty happy.

[Addai]

Alistair not a brooder? Hmm... I'd have to disagree. I mean, think of the whole Duncan thing. Think of the whole "you sent me to a monastery and now I'm bitter" thing. He practically tells you that he's an overthinker. This seems rather a defining characteristic. As for the ritual, even after he learns that the ritual could save his life, he *has to be convinced* to do it and says he's doing it for yours and Riordan's sake. It's the PC Warden who has to take the more pragmatic approach you're suggesting, i.e. better alive with regrets than heroically dead. Alistair prefers the latter if left to his own devices.

Not that I picture his existence a miserable one, if he's either made king or goes off to restore the GWs. I'm all for a happy ending, there just aren't any truly happy endings in this game AFAIC.

Modifié par Addai67, 11 février 2010 - 11:47 .

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

Alistair not a brooder? Hmm... I'd have to disagree. I mean, think of the whole Duncan thing. Think of the whole "you sent me to a monastery and now I'm bitter" thing. He practically tells you that he's an overthinker. This seems rather a defining characteristic. As for the ritual, even after he learns that the ritual could save his life, he *has to be convinced* to do it and says he's doing it for yours and Riordan's sake. It's the PC Warden who has to take the more pragmatic approach you're suggesting, i.e. better alive with regrets than heroically dead. Alistair prefers the latter if left to his own devices.

Not that I picture his existence a miserable one, if he's either made king or goes off to restore the GWs. I'm all for a happy ending, there just aren't any truly happy endings in this game AFAIK.

Well, the Duncan thing was perfectly natural mourning, and the Chantry? What kid wouldn't take that to heart? He doesn't want to do the dark ritual because in many ways he's still a templar. He's afraid it might be evil, not to mention that it flies in the face of everything the warden's believe. Of course he has to be convinced. At the end, he seems completely untormented, though. He expresses none of the kind of heartfelt feeling that he shows when he really doesn't feel good about something. I think we'll have to disagree on this, because I just don't see an unhappy guy there.

[ejoslin]

Alistair has an extremely strong sense of duty -- strong enough that you have to convince him to take on the warden as a mistress rather than it being his natural reaction. He puts duty before his own happiness, for sure. And if you do the buddy ending, you will see how much it would mean to him to take that blow -- he really does want to. He does the ritual for the warden, and even if he hates the warden he can be talked into it, but it does go against his sense of duty, I think.

[errant_knight]

ejoslin wrote...

Alistair has an extremely strong sense of duty -- strong enough that you have to convince him to take on the warden as a mistress rather than it being his natural reaction. He puts duty before his own happiness, for sure. And if you do the buddy ending, you will see how much it would mean to him to take that blow -- he really does want to. He does the ritual for the warden, and even if he hates the warden he can be talked into it, but it does go against his sense of duty, I think.

That kind of ignores the fact that he seems happy with how everything worked out at the end when he lives.

Sure, Alistair is always happy to do his duty, and there's a reason I don't convince him to take a mistress, but that doesn't mean he isn't just as happy to see things work out another way and be alive. Besides, Alistair's willingness to believe that his death makes things better (Duncan, endgame) is a tad unhealthy, even if he's doing it for love at the end. This is especially true since he's convinced that he would be a better ruler for Fereldan than Anora.

[ejoslin]

errant_knight wrote...

That kind of ignores the fact that he seems happy with how everything worked out at the end when he lives.

Sure, Alistair is always happy to do his duty, and there's a reason I don't convince him to take a mistress, but that doesn't mean he isn't just as happy to see things work out another way and be alive. Besides, Alistair's willingness to believe that his death makes things better (Duncan, endgame) is a tad unhealthy, even if he's doing it for love at the end. This is especially true since he's convinced that he would be a better ruler for Fereldan than Anora.

In the buddy ending, even hardened, he says that "Both you and I know that Anora would be better." when talking about what kind of ruler he'd be.  I'm pretty sure he does in the romance ending as well when saying the absolute best king he can be is by stopping the blight before it stops.  He strikes me as quite concerned, actually, over what the ritual will cost.

See, the thing that many women don't see is Alistair wanting to take that blow for a friend, too.  And yes, his reasons are honor, glory, and also, he wants to save his friend's life.  The main difference is he will allow a friend to take the blow, so they instead will have the heroic death.  In the romance death, the emphasis is on the kiss, and not letting the femwarden die -- the buddy death, though, it's very clear how much glory is involved.

[errant_knight]

ejoslin wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

That kind of ignores the fact that he seems happy with how everything worked out at the end when he lives.

Sure, Alistair is always happy to do his duty, and there's a reason I don't convince him to take a mistress, but that doesn't mean he isn't just as happy to see things work out another way and be alive. Besides, Alistair's willingness to believe that his death makes things better (Duncan, endgame) is a tad unhealthy, even if he's doing it for love at the end. This is especially true since he's convinced that he would be a better ruler for Fereldan than Anora.

In the buddy ending, even hardened, he says that "Both you and I know that Anora would be better." when talking about what kind of ruler he'd be.  I'm pretty sure he does in the romance ending as well when saying the absolute best king he can be is by stopping the blight before it stops.  He strikes me as quite concerned, actually, over what the ritual will cost.

See, the thing that many women don't see is Alistair wanting to take that blow for a friend, too.  And yes, his reasons are honor, glory, and also, he wants to save his friend's life.  The main difference is he will allow a friend to take the blow, so they instead will have the heroic death.  In the romance death, the emphasis is on the kiss, and not letting the femwarden die -- the buddy death, though, it's very clear how much glory is involved.

Again, none of that negates happiness if he doesn't die.

I'll have to see what choices are required to get that line you quoted. It's the opposite of what he says during landsmeet, so...I don't know. I wouldn't have thought Alistair would lie, but maybe he's just pulling out all the stops to make sure he gets to make the sacrifice... No idea. Anyway, we both know we're never, ever going to agree, right? I'm going to call it a day.

[ejoslin]

errant_knight wrote...

Again, none of that negates happiness if he doesn't die.

I'll have to see what choices are required to get that line you quoted. It's the opposite of what he says during landsmeet, so...I don't know. I wouldn't have thought Alistair would lie, but maybe he's just pulling out all the stops to make sure he gets to make the sacrifice... No idea. Anyway, we both know we're never, ever going to agree, right? I'm going to call it a day.

On the roof, tell him, "What about being king?"  I think that's what leads to him saying Anora would be a better ruler, that his dying is being the best king he can be.  And at the Landsmeet, he says both that he should be king, but that you should let Anora rule.  He's VERY torn about it.  And yes, he will say both while hardened.

[Addai]

errant_knight wrote...

Well, the Duncan thing was perfectly natural mourning, and the Chantry? What kid wouldn't take that to heart? He doesn't want to do the dark ritual because in many ways he's still a templar. He's afraid it might be evil, not to mention that it flies in the face of everything the warden's believe. Of course he has to be convinced. At the end, he seems completely untormented, though. He expresses none of the kind of heartfelt feeling that he shows when he really doesn't feel good about something. I think we'll have to disagree on this, because I just don't see an unhappy guy there.

Yes, we'll have to disagree.  I find his entire demeanor whenever he mentions the ritual to be one of guilt and worry, and it takes up half your conversation in the post-coronation.  It is obviously on his mind.  I'm not sure what other instances you're referring to with "heartfelt feeling."  Like when he yells about Isolde etc.?

[Raiynsong]

I did Alistair unhardened who ended up putting Anora on the throne, doing the ritual, and he and my elf mage ended up going off together and rebuilding the wardens. That seemed like a happy ending to me. After all, a king is just "politics" but defeating the darkspawn is life itself!



I also did Alistair hardened marrying my HNF and being king. Hardened, he actually WANTS to be king. He is a little concerned about an heir (tho he doesn't dump you like he does if you leave it up to him to propose) but seems very happy that I decide to stay and help him rule. He asks about the ritual but it's more like --well, we"ll deal with that later, see you upstairs, baby... That also seemed like a happy ending.



Alistair unhardened, but being talked into being king, I did on another HNF and he of course snaps at you about that and seems to be trapped. but as long as you stay, it appears as if he "makes do" travelling around the country with his bride, etc...



I guess none of those is a storybook ending, but no one's life is storybook.



I have to say that tonight when I finished the hardened, me being queen version, Alistair seemed really cute about introducing me to everyone as the hero and as his betrothed. A kiss right then would have been pretty storybook---even with the foreshadowing about heirs and Rosemary's (I mean Morrigan's) Baby.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Happiest ending for me is not making him king. Even hardened, it seems there is something lost within that he regrets if you make him king. He's a warrior. When talking about his templar training and years in the Chantry, he pretty much states the only pleasant part he liked was fighting training. Given his rather sensitive nature and his preference for action, he was never really cut out to be king. Such a fate seems like another prison for the poor boy.



Anora works out fine as queen, unless you're a city elf. And personally, even that might be a good thing. Eventually, the elves will get tired of being subservient and purged everytime a ruler has a hair up their ass, and will end up fighting back and gaining freedom and respect the ferelden way: at the end of a sword. And they can then decorate their nice, rennovated al;ienage with the heads of Anora and other nobles who failed to realize they picked the wrong knife ears to kick about.

[Thor Rand Al]

ejoslin wrote...
On the roof, tell him, "What about being king?"  I think that's what leads to him saying Anora would be a better ruler, that his dying is being the best king he can be.  And at the Landsmeet, he says both that he should be king, but that you should let Anora rule.  He's VERY torn about it.  And yes, he will say both while hardened.

 
Ya he does say that on the rooftop n then if your in a romance he gives you that damn kiss, that 1 always gets me, ugh I hate it lol, tears my pc's heart out, then what makes it worse in post-coronation no one comments about you n you're relationship with Alistair.  It's like no one gives a sh*t about the surviving female wardens feelings... 
Anora's happy, she's got her dang throne, everyone else is happy cause the archdemon is dead n the blights over but what about the surviving female Warden.  She just lost the man she loves who she's went through h*ll n highwater to make King n he goes off n sacrifices himself n no one cares. PFFT 
That's why when I go to Zevran when he makes that comment on a bloodbath I so got to agree with him lmao.  My pc's hurting, yep lets have a bloodbath massacre

Modifié par Thor Rand Al, 13 février 2010 - 06:53 .