259 réponses à ce sujet

[-Area51-Silent]

DaeJi wrote...

-Area51-Silent wrote...

But the sexuality of their character is raw emotion, that emotion is the vision or the emotion that is being felt by the person developing the character directly, its a projection of that emotion into a medium that we can see and experience.

Creating somthing that didnt have that, even as simple as a same sex relationship that the artist doesnt feel the emotions for (not to say that they don't completely just not for w/e character), it could still be added in, I just don't believe you would get what you are looking for still.

Maybe as a writer, I'm coming at this a bit differently. But basically, that emotion and vision and stuff... can be faked. Many of the greatest literally works of all time, were done for pay (example: One Flew Over The Cuckcoo's Nest). Writing can be a science, and BioWare are masters of it (if it were not, tropes would not exist).

Perhaps thats true, though for purity in feeling I am not sure. I am looking at this more as painter. I am by no means an expert, but my love of art that puts feeling into me is somthing inescapable. The reason I say it would be hard to fake is the intricate innerworkings of multiple artistic concepts into a single medium that produces somthing that is experienced in a new and unique way.

[Adon 9]

Kyero wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Casey is trying to retcon the F/F relationship in ME1 as well.

He seems to think the asari are asexual now, which is funny.

there was no F/F in ME1. cuz liara isnt a actual FEMALE! if you don't understand why, well i feel sorry for you. and judging you think kelly is > thane veryone in the game. you dont.

This has been addressed back and forth, up and down.

Asari are monogendered, not androgynous, and not hermaphrodites.  They closely resemble human females, and have no male characteristics to speak of.  IF BioWare had genuinely wanted to make truly androgynous aliens, the could have easily made them more androgynous in appearance and behavior (to cite an example from a different game, in Tekken 6 there's a character called Leo whose sex is deliberately left undefined, and can easily pass as either a slender young man with a pretty face or a tomboyish girl who isn't very curvy).

Asari use feminine forms of address for themselves and other asari (she, her, mother, daughter, matriarch, matron), where more neutral terms exist.   And of course there's the old saw that it is extremely doubtful that a straight woman or a gay man would be interested in one due to their complete lack of male characteristics.

Buuuut... I doubt that any of this will register much.  The whole 'ASARI AREN'T FEMALE LOL' bit has become a rallying point for those who want to insist that there are no F/F options anywhere in the game (and somehow Kelly doesn't count either).

[Lord Atlia]

Naltair wrote...

Lord Atlia wrote...

Collider wrote...

Lord Atlia wrote...
Dude you need to search the Tali video on youtube, I agreed with you before someone pointed me in that direction.  Tali was bisexual than edited hetereosexual much in the same way Kaidan was.

That doesn't matter. What matters is the final product. Characters go through many iterations. Had Bioware used their first concept of Jack for example, she would have pink hair. Ultimately they decided to have Tali be heterosexual.

Indeed but the hetereosexual iteration of Tali came so late she still gave out misleading vibes to some peeps because they didn't clean up a lot of Tali's dialogue when it comes to female shepard.

Fallacy we have no idea when this material was actually cut changed or removed.  There is dialog for Tali during the Mordin mission, there is dialog for Samara in Grunt's mission, that content for whatever reason was cut.  There may be whole missions that were cut or repurporsed as was the case with Bring down the Sky.  The final area, where you face the Batarian leader and have to make that choice that was repurposed content originally used for the mission to get Liara.

You can't just point to cut evidence and then say oh my god BioWare is against us this is the proof.  All that proves is that content was cut, for time reasons, the vision, or maybe because Casey just picked it randomly out of a hat.  We don;' have enough evidence to make the call of when and why it was cut.

We just know that it was.

(Edit: Spelling) Darn...you are correct...on both counts as I did not have that information and thus what I said is wrong.  The argument is yours good sir.

Modifié par Lord Atlia, 11 février 2010 - 02:45 .

[addiction21]

Lord Atlia wrote...


Darn...you are correct...on both counts as I did not have that information and thus what I said is wrong.  The arguement is yours good sir.

You are doing it wrong. See here on the internet when you cant argue back or have actually been proven wrong you do not accept it and be nice.
You call them a fanboy, a troll, or maybe a poopyhead and then storm out of the thread claiming victory.
I am docking you two days of waffles.
Also on a side note, I was not able to have a romantic entanglement with a giant space waffle so we are all disapointed in our own ways.

[Naltair]

Waffles for everyone.

[Loerwyn]

Adon 9 wrote...
Asari use feminine forms of address for themselves and other asari (she, her, mother, daughter, matriarch, matron), where more neutral terms exist.   And of course there's the old saw that it is extremely doubtful that a straight woman or a gay man would be interested in one due to their complete lack of male characteristics.

Buuuut... I doubt that any of this will register much.  The whole 'ASARI AREN'T FEMALE LOL' bit has become a rallying point for those who want to insist that there are no F/F options anywhere in the game (and somehow Kelly doesn't count either).

Kelly is an F/F option, but *not* a romance/relationship. It's been stated by BioWare themselves that she's a fling and nothing more.
As for the Asari using the feminine forms of address? Could just be something lost in translation. I don't know how languages work in Mass Effect (because every race on the Citadel speaks perfect English, right?), but it could be due to various things. The Asari could be regarded as female visually, hence why the feminine term is added. But it could be the same principle as boats and cars - A lot of people refer to them as "She" (e.g. "She's a beauty!") with the Asari life stages given feminine names for some other reason (maybe harking back to the feminine appearance or something else).

[PingoBlack]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

As for the Asari using the feminine forms of address? Could just be something lost in translation. I don't know how languages work in Mass Effect (because every race on the Citadel speaks perfect English, right?), but it could be due to various things. The Asari could be regarded as female visually, hence why the feminine term is added. But it could be the same principle as boats and cars - A lot of people refer to them as "She" (e.g. "She's a beauty!") with the Asari life stages given feminine names for some other reason (maybe harking back to the feminine appearance or something else).

Exactly this. it's partialy confirmed, if you ask Aria about using the term Patriarch.

She replies she chose a word, that has no meaning to her people (as in it's not translatable in Asari at all). As a form of insult most other races would not quite understand.

[SithLordExarKun]

Why F/F? ****** ****** ******

[Ferocious7]

PingoBlack wrote...

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

As for the Asari using the feminine forms of address? Could just be something lost in translation. I don't know how languages work in Mass Effect (because every race on the Citadel speaks perfect English, right?), but it could be due to various things. The Asari could be regarded as female visually, hence why the feminine term is added. But it could be the same principle as boats and cars - A lot of people refer to them as "She" (e.g. "She's a beauty!") with the Asari life stages given feminine names for some other reason (maybe harking back to the feminine appearance or something else).

Exactly this. it's partialy confirmed, if you ask Aria about using the term Patriarch.

She replies she chose a word, that has no meaning to her people (as in it's not translatable in Asari at all). As a form of insult most other races would not quite understand.

It doesn't translate because there are no "would-be-men".  The Asari have all of the "assets" that a human female has... minus the hair.  Their voices are even feminine.  They dress feminine.  They refer to one another with feminine titles... yes they can reproduce and are a single gender, but technically they are a race of women who can reproduce with anyone, because they join with their minds.. not their bodies.  The joining of the bodies are not necessary as stated by Liara in  ME1, but is only for pleasure.

So the only difference between them and human women other than the hair, color of skin, and species.... are how they reproduce.

They are not he-she's.  No matter how you slice it, they are feminine.  Imagine if they all looked like guys including their bodies and parts.   Yet they reproduce through their minds.  Would your male shepard be a bit on the gay side for having sex with one, most would agree... yes.  He's attracted to male-sounding and male-looking aliens.  So that would be gay in my opinion.

So those of us straight guys and even women who have lesbian female sheps.... selecting romance with Liara in ME1... no matter how they reproduce, our characters are attracted to female-looking and sounding aliens.   That is F/F.  Just because they reproduce differently, doesn't mean anything.  They have the goods that make a woman a woman... and are BORN that way, not go into surgery to become that way.  They are born sounding like girls, who grow into women.  They refer to one another in feminine terms.   There is more evidence to support that they are the human equivalent of a female than of an a-sexual.

They are not human no, but that is their "translation" since we are speaking of translation of words... hence why they don't have a meaning for Patriarch, yet they do for Matriarch.

[HAGA NAGA]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Adon 9 wrote...
Asari use feminine forms of address for themselves and other asari (she, her, mother, daughter, matriarch, matron), where more neutral terms exist.   And of course there's the old saw that it is extremely doubtful that a straight woman or a gay man would be interested in one due to their complete lack of male characteristics.

Buuuut... I doubt that any of this will register much.  The whole 'ASARI AREN'T FEMALE LOL' bit has become a rallying point for those who want to insist that there are no F/F options anywhere in the game (and somehow Kelly doesn't count either).

Kelly is an F/F option, but *not* a romance/relationship. It's been stated by BioWare themselves that she's a fling and nothing more.
As for the Asari using the feminine forms of address? Could just be something lost in translation. I don't know how languages work in Mass Effect (because every race on the Citadel speaks perfect English, right?), but it could be due to various things. The Asari could be regarded as female visually, hence why the feminine term is added. But it could be the same principle as boats and cars - A lot of people refer to them as "She" (e.g. "She's a beauty!") with the Asari life stages given feminine names for some other reason (maybe harking back to the feminine appearance or something else).

so what is your point? that because Kelly isn't a romance or relationship on the level that the other LIs are that she didn't exist? or that what Femshep and her did in Femsheps Cabin never happened? And therefore, there is no such thing as bisexual or lesbian Femshep in Mass Effect? I'm guessing at all of those things because i'm not sure what point you're trying to make, but if that is it. take a look again:

Dusty Everman wrote...

Spoiler Alert: How to "Romance" Yeoman Kelly Chambers


Does doing this with Kelly count as cheating on your ME1 love interest?  Kelly’s a free spirit, and as such can be more of a bed buddy, hence why “romancing” her doesn’t turn down the picture frame on your desk, or get in the way of your romancing any of the main ME2 love interests.  Will this affect anything in ME3?  Well, we haven’t made the game yet, but the fact that you had Kelly up to your cabin is in your save game.

Straight from Bioware. Read it.  Because i feel like this back-and-forth "Kelly was a romance for Femshep!" - "No she wasn't!",  "Asari are females!" - "No they aren't!" at least for some people has an underlying argument of whether or not Female Shepard Players were ever intended to have the option of being bisexual or lesbian.

The answer is "Yes". Bioware has allowed Female shepard to be bisexual/lesbian (if the player so chooses) and put content in the game to support that.

but all that being said, i'd love to see this thread revived by returning somewhat to its Topic