259 réponses à ce sujet

[Laeelin]

I'm a guy, and I prefer to play female characters in single player games. I always have.



For me it's simple.... I would like a f/f relationship in ME for the same reason that I find it hard to play as a renegade.



I'm not comfortable playing a "bad" character. I try to be nice and save everyone and basically be a hero. I'm not comfortable playing the girl in a m/f romance scene. (that sounded a lot dirtier than it's supposed to be)



I did a play-through as a guy and really liked the tali romance. I'd like something like that for a f/f relationship. No need to show anything more than something like what they did with tali. Very sweet and nice.



I'd be happy for them to also add in a m/m relationship for those that want it.



I'm doing my first run through as a female Shepard, and have not saw the Kelly romance as either yet, so for all I know that will have what I want in it.



I'll know in a few days.

[tausra]

-Area51-Silent wrote...

DaeJi wrote...

-Area51-Silent wrote...
It's not for us, the gamers to dictate to them how their art should be. It's for us to experience what they have created through different guiding decisions, in order to experience the story, the art, and the acting.

By putting this game out there for the masses, they have invited people to critique it and voice displeasure where it is found.

As in all art, this is very true! you should be able to make an opinion and critique the game. However, like any art, the lack of an element does not mean intolerance. The lack of Homosexuality in Mass Effect should not equate to intolerance though some of the posts I have read on these boards imply that.

Digital art has the glorious aspect of being modified and improved.  And as such often is modified and improved because of criticsm.

[Nynaeve]

DaeJi wrote...

-Area51-Silent wrote...
It's not for us, the gamers to dictate to them how their art should be. It's for us to experience what they have created through different guiding decisions, in order to experience the story, the art, and the acting.

By putting this game out there for the masses, they have invited people to critique it and voice displeasure where it is found.

Definately, The game is made for the fans and though I don't agree with the "lets just put everything in to please everybody", there is definately room in the mass effect universe to cater to same-sex relationships. The reason these kinds of threads keep popping up is because us, as fans realise the lack of same-sex relationships as standard is a massive hole in what is an amazing franchise

[jlb524]

HAGA NAGA wrote...

There is no slant beyond my straight-forward claim that "F/F Femsheps were denied in ME2". Thoughts?

I agree.  Not only were there no new f/f romances, but I couldn't even continue my old one with Liara, my one true love  

[Nozybidaj]

Ninja Ataris wrote...

I liked the romances in ME2 a lot more than ME1 as well. I found them much more tastefully done.

How so?  What exactly did you find "much more tastefully" done?  Was it Miranda shagging you in the engine room, the only place in the whole ship that has a window into every other room?  Was it Jack cussing you out and manhandling you?  Was it FemShep acting like a woman of the street talking to Jacob?  Was it the huge emphasis BW tried to saddle you with regarding how "hard" it is for interspecies relations?

I'm more than willing to grant you your own opinion, but if you want to use my words just to be contrary I wouldn't mind seeing you explain just exactly how you felt the ME2 romances were tastefully done, let alone better than the ME1 romances.

[Nynaeve]

jlb524 wrote...

HAGA NAGA wrote...

There is no slant beyond my straight-forward claim that "F/F Femsheps were denied in ME2". Thoughts?

I agree.  Not only were there no new f/f romances, but I couldn't even continue my old one with Liara, my one true love  

She's mine!

[Brahlis]

Until they add in a M/M option you really can't complain about not having F/F.



And LMAO @ some of you trying to act like you know more than the damn lead designer of the game.

[tausra]

Funkenstein23 wrote...

tausra wrote...

Funkenstein23 wrote...

DaeJi wrote...

LostScout wrote...
Male Shepard can get a scene with Miranda or Jack.  So yes, much more denied.

Well, some male Shepards wanted to get closer with Jacob or ease Thane's pain in the twilight of his life. What about those Shepards?

You see, this is where I run into a problem with the gay-romance support crowd. Its totally reasonable to want a gay or bisexual character for homosexual Shep to romance. The problem I have is when people start talking about retconning characters into homosexuality. Thane was happily married for many years to a woman, why would he suddenly turn gay? Jacob had a romantic relationship with Miranda, why would he too, magically turn gay all of the sudden?

You can not know all the things Thane has ever done in his life.  He might have been entirely gay, until being entranced by his wife.  Jacob might have experimented, he might not have.  All we see as Shepard is a brief, important moment in the character's lives, not their whole lives.  No one knows the entirety of any characters life, save Grunt.

I would disagree. You learn enough about the characters to have a decent understanding of their pasts. Thane for example was most likely never involved with anyone until he met his wife. The dialogue seems to indicate this, with many comments on his long and lonely life before meeting his wife. BioWare gives you basically the entire life stories of their characters. I know who Miranda's parents are, what her childhood was like, why and how she enlisted with Cerberus, her personality, her tendencies, and more, and I didn't even romance her. The characters are much more set than you are giving them credit for. Which is why I think it would be selfish, and very poor role-playing to want them to change sexualities. I understand the gay community was screwed in ME2, but that shouldn't be fixed with a retcon, it should be fixed with new characters.

You get a brief overview of his life from a altered standpoint.  Maybe to him loneliness is embodied in his many homosexual relationships that always end by the next day.  You know the bullet points of her life, not the small things that make up a life.

[DaeJi]

Ninja Ataris wrote...

I'd say it has with immersion to do as well. If every single LI start turning bi I'd question the validity of it all. Sexual minority is not a broken defense as such, since all the species in ME has to reproduce through sexual acts, thus it's logical to assume 50% of the population aren't bi or gay.

If you were looking a large sample, sure. But in small groups those ratios do not hold true. As for love interests turning bi-sexual, again this story is not static nor are the characters; the fact that you, the player, have control over how they handle certain situations (loyalty missions) and fate (suicide mission) should make this clear. Hell, t.v. shows have less room than that for change and still manage to pull it off. Making Jacob bi-sexual through a DLC would be less jarring than when they made Willow gay in Buffy: The Vampire Slayer.

[ERJAK2]

Funkenstein23 wrote...

tausra wrote...

Funkenstein23 wrote...

DaeJi wrote...

LostScout wrote...
Male Shepard can get a scene with Miranda or Jack.  So yes, much more denied.

Well, some male Shepards wanted to get closer with Jacob or ease Thane's pain in the twilight of his life. What about those Shepards?

You see, this is where I run into a problem with the gay-romance support crowd. Its totally reasonable to want a gay or bisexual character for homosexual Shep to romance. The problem I have is when people start talking about retconning characters into homosexuality. Thane was happily married for many years to a woman, why would he suddenly turn gay? Jacob had a romantic relationship with Miranda, why would he too, magically turn gay all of the sudden?

You can not know all the things Thane has ever done in his life.  He might have been entirely gay, until being entranced by his wife.  Jacob might have experimented, he might not have.  All we see as Shepard is a brief, important moment in the character's lives, not their whole lives.  No one knows the entirety of any characters life, save Grunt.

I would disagree. You learn enough about the characters to have a decent understanding of their pasts. Thane for example was most likely never involved with anyone until he met his wife. The dialogue seems to indicate this, with many comments on his long and lonely life before meeting his wife. BioWare gives you basically the entire life stories of their characters. I know who Miranda's parents are, what her childhood was like, why and how she enlisted with Cerberus, her personality, her tendencies, and more, and I didn't even romance her. The characters are much more set than you are giving them credit for. Which is why I think it would be selfish, and very poor role-playing to want them to change sexualities. I understand the gay community was screwed in ME2, but that shouldn't be fixed with a retcon, it should be fixed with new characters.

Hmmm, first I must commend you on your thoughtful nonaggresive, well thought out disagreement. Secondly, I see your point. Most of the characters do give you a pretty good idea of who they are and what they prefer.
Jacob, Thane, Garrus, and Miranda have already established past  relationships with the opposite gender, some of which imply that they would have no interest in the same gender. (Miranda is debateable)

What breaks the mold here is that Jack has had at least a few "relationships" with women. Arguably her most committed relationship was with a male, but if you have any appreciation for the female form at all, Shep is who you would fall for.

Tali has no established sexual preference at all. She seems to have a Xenophilia thing going but beyond that we really don't know much.

[Lord Atlia]

-Area51-Silent wrote...

All arguments aside as to why it ISN'T there, why should it become necessary for them to write their characters as bi-sexual? I am not saying that they shouldn't have the option and be able to express homosexuality in one of their games, but it shouldn't be a necessity if they do not want to write their characters that way.

While I agree its a little inconsistant with Femshep and Kelly, and some argument can be made with the Asari (not going to rehash it), If Bioware wants to write a game like Mass Effect without having the protagonist be gay/bi then they should have that option, just like if they want to write a game where the protagonist can be gay/bi they should have that option too (like in Dragon Age).

It's not for us, the gamers to dictate to them how their art should be. It's for us to experience what they have created through different guiding decisions, in order to experience the story, the art, and the acting.

See I agree with you on your points but it seems now that Kaidan and Tali were written as bi, I don't know of other characters with junked dialogue but there could be more.  What I more want to know is why said options were abandoned.  If it was due to limited resources + small demand that is justifiable.  If it is due to the fact that removing such content could increase units sold by reducing negative publicity, than that is also justifiable as Bioware is a corporation and thus it holds its shareholders first.  I'm just suprised they had these junk lines two games in a row.

[DaeJi]

ERJAK2 wrote...
Hmmm, first I must commend you on your thoughtful nonaggresive, well thought out disagreement. Secondly, I see your point. Most of the characters do give you a pretty good idea of who they are and what they prefer.
Jacob, Thane, Garrus, and Miranda have already established past  relationships with the opposite gender, some of which imply that they would have no interest in the same gender. (Miranda is debateable)

What breaks the mold here is that Jack has had at least a few "relationships" with women. Arguably her most committed relationship was with a male, but if you have any appreciation for the female form at all, Shep is who you would fall for.

Tali has no established sexual preference at all. She seems to have a Xenophilia thing going but beyond that we really don't know much.

Again, I want to bring up Sky from Jade Empire. Male, married once to woman, had kid, whole nine yards. Still an option for males.

[DaeJi]

Double Post.

Modifié par DaeJi, 11 février 2010 - 12:26 .

[Nozybidaj]

ERJAK2 wrote...


Hmmm, first I must commend you on your thoughtful nonaggresive, well thought out disagreement. Secondly, I see your point. Most of the characters do give you a pretty good idea of who they are and what they prefer.
Jacob, Thane, Garrus, and Miranda have already established past  relationships with the opposite gender, some of which imply that they would have no interest in the same gender. (Miranda is debateable)

I could totally see Miranda swinging both ways, I don't think it would be out of character for her at all.  The rest I agree with.

[Brahlis]

ERJAK2 wrote...
Tali has no established sexual preference at all. She seems to have a Xenophilia thing going but beyond that we really don't know much.

Except for the part where she bones maleShep and shows no sexual interest in femShep, you mean?

Modifié par Brahlis, 11 février 2010 - 12:30 .

[Ninja Ataris]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Ninja Ataris wrote...

I liked the romances in ME2 a lot more than ME1 as well. I found them much more tastefully done.

How so?  What exactly did you find "much more tastefully" done?  Was it Miranda shagging you in the engine room, the only place in the whole ship that has a window into every other room?  Was it Jack cussing you out and manhandling you?  Was it FemShep acting like a woman of the street talking to Jacob?  Was it the huge emphasis BW tried to saddle you with regarding how "hard" it is for interspecies relations?

I'm more than willing to grant you your own opinion, but if you want to use my words just to be contrary I wouldn't mind seeing you explain just exactly how you felt the ME2 romances were tastefully done, let alone better than the ME1 romances.

I should've added I've only played through this game once, as a Paragon Male. As such my character never got along with either Miranda or Jack. My experience was through Tali and Kelly, of which I chose Tali.

Of course, it all comes down to opinion in the end.

[ERJAK2]

DaeJi wrote...

Ninja Ataris wrote...

I'd say it has with immersion to do as well. If every single LI start turning bi I'd question the validity of it all. Sexual minority is not a broken defense as such, since all the species in ME has to reproduce through sexual acts, thus it's logical to assume 50% of the population aren't bi or gay.

If you were looking a large sample, sure. But in small groups those ratios do not hold true. As for love interests turning bi-sexual, again this story is not static nor are the characters; the fact that you, the player, have control over how they handle certain situations (loyalty missions) and fate (suicide mission) should make this clear. Hell, t.v. shows have less room than that for change and still manage to pull it off. Making Jacob bi-sexual through a DLC would be less jarring than when they made Willow gay in Buffy: The Vampire Slayer.

To add to this, and listen carefully here:

Shepard(male or female) is the greatest hero in the history of the galaxy and has done, given, cared,(paragon), comforted, taught more to/about/for these characters than anyone else in their lives.

She risks her life over and over and over to save their beloved little sisters, put to rest the horrors of their childhoods, free them of unfair accusations(while keeping her father's name clean), given them clan and purpose, saved their only child from a life of death and pain, avenged the deaths of their squadmates, gave them the peace of freedom from their 400 year stuggle to kill her daughter.

If any of these people were EVER going to fall in love with ANYONE it would be Shepard.

[Funkenstein23]

tausra wrote...

Funkenstein23 wrote...

tausra wrote...

Funkenstein23 wrote...

DaeJi wrote...

LostScout wrote...
Male Shepard can get a scene with Miranda or Jack.  So yes, much more denied.

Well, some male Shepards wanted to get closer with Jacob or ease Thane's pain in the twilight of his life. What about those Shepards?

You see, this is where I run into a problem with the gay-romance support crowd. Its totally reasonable to want a gay or bisexual character for homosexual Shep to romance. The problem I have is when people start talking about retconning characters into homosexuality. Thane was happily married for many years to a woman, why would he suddenly turn gay? Jacob had a romantic relationship with Miranda, why would he too, magically turn gay all of the sudden?

You can not know all the things Thane has ever done in his life.  He might have been entirely gay, until being entranced by his wife.  Jacob might have experimented, he might not have.  All we see as Shepard is a brief, important moment in the character's lives, not their whole lives.  No one knows the entirety of any characters life, save Grunt.

I would disagree. You learn enough about the characters to have a decent understanding of their pasts. Thane for example was most likely never involved with anyone until he met his wife. The dialogue seems to indicate this, with many comments on his long and lonely life before meeting his wife. BioWare gives you basically the entire life stories of their characters. I know who Miranda's parents are, what her childhood was like, why and how she enlisted with Cerberus, her personality, her tendencies, and more, and I didn't even romance her. The characters are much more set than you are giving them credit for. Which is why I think it would be selfish, and very poor role-playing to want them to change sexualities. I understand the gay community was screwed in ME2, but that shouldn't be fixed with a retcon, it should be fixed with new characters.

You get a brief overview of his life from a altered standpoint.  Maybe to him loneliness is embodied in his many homosexual relationships that always end by the next day.  You know the bullet points of her life, not the small things that make up a life.

I'm sorry but that is a preposterous claim. Your argument is that because something is not directly stated it could be true. That is no different than assuming that Jacob made a living selling shrimp out of a van. I may not know everything about Jacob's pre-service history, but as an intelligent person I am able to make the assumption that he was never a shrimp-salesman. The game never alludes to such in any way, at all. Similarly, the game never, not even once, gives any indication that Thane has ever been involved in a homosexual relationship.

[ERJAK2]

Brahlis wrote...

ERJAK2 wrote...
Tali has no established sexual preference at all. She seems to have a Xenophilia thing going but beyond that we really don't know much.

Except for the part where she bones maleShep and shows no sexual interest in femShep, you mean?

She shows interest. She flirts pretty openly. Never played a femshep have you? (Probably doesn't believe a woman can save the galaxy.)

[DaeJi]

Funkenstein23 wrote...


I'm sorry but that is a preposterous claim. Your argument is that because something is not directly stated it could be true. That is no different than assuming that Jacob made a living selling shrimp out of a van. I may not know everything about Jacob's pre-service history, but as an intelligent person I am able to make the assumption that he was never a shrimp-salesman. The game never alludes to such in any way, at all. Similarly, the game never, not even once, gives any indication that Thane has ever been involved in a homosexual relationship.

I think what their point is is that because their is a lot unknown about them, homosexual attraction could be worked in seamlessly.

Modifié par DaeJi, 11 février 2010 - 12:36 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Brahlis wrote...

ERJAK2 wrote...
Tali has no established sexual preference at all. She seems to have a Xenophilia thing going but beyond that we really don't know much.

Except for the part where she bones maleShep and shows no sexual interest in femShep, you mean?

Interesting verb usage.

Is Tali hiding something specific in that enviro-suit?

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 11 février 2010 - 12:36 .

[WilliamShatner]

Brahlis wrote...

ERJAK2 wrote...
Tali has no established sexual preference at all. She seems to have a Xenophilia thing going but beyond that we really don't know much.

Except for the part where she bones maleShep and shows no sexual interest in femShep, you mean?

Except for the blushing and wanting to be have an intimate suit joining with Female Shepard?

[-Area51-Silent]

frij wrote...

DaeJi wrote...

-Area51-Silent wrote...
It's not for us, the gamers to dictate to them how their art should be. It's for us to experience what they have created through different guiding decisions, in order to experience the story, the art, and the acting.

By putting this game out there for the masses, they have invited people to critique it and voice displeasure where it is found.

Definately, The game is made for the fans and though I don't agree with the "lets just put everything in to please everybody", there is definately room in the mass effect universe to cater to same-sex relationships. The reason these kinds of threads keep popping up is because us, as fans realise the lack of same-sex relationships as standard is a massive hole in what is an amazing franchise

Perhaps, and I do agree that this is digital art which has the room to be changed. However making a character gay/bi/straight for reasons outside of the artists vision of what the character is or is not, is dictating to the artist what his/her vision should be.

While I agree this lacks that particular element, and it is made very clear by the playing community, perhaps in this particular media, that element is left out (I don't know why) because in this particular media it is not part of the artists vision.