68 réponses à ce sujet

[Auyran162]

Gemini1179 wrote...

NO SPOILER FORUM...

oh come on her death is one off the most widely known facts in the game even before anyone played it.
Also it is true that only scant amounts on decisions mattered in ME2, if even only 50% of important decisions changed things it would mean a Hell of a lot more work. And then in ME3 they'd have your decision in ME1 then what you did in ME2 and maybe go further in ME3! I understand wanting to make a game perfect but, well look at duck nukem, At lest for now perfection means never coming out, or broken, sad but true

Modifié par Auyran162, 11 février 2010 - 06:07 .

[Exitiosus]

Craig McDermott wrote...

LoweGear wrote...
The fact that even some of the little things you do in ME1 changes alot of things in ME2 is already a miracle of gaming in and of itself

Really, it's a miracle that I get an email at my terminal on the normandy?  Or that Nassana Dantius seems to remember me before dying 3 seconds later?

Try playing through again without the ME1 import, the galaxy has a very different feel to it.

I'm playing ME1 again to set the atmosphere because I didn't like the default ME2 settings.

[Gemini1179]

Auyran162 wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...

NO SPOILER FORUM...

oh come on her death is one off the most widely known facts in the game even before anyone played it.
Also it is true that only scant amounts on decisions mattered in ME2, if even only 50% of important decisions changed things it would mean a Hell of a lot more work. And then in ME3 they'd have your decision in ME1 then what you did in ME2 and maybe go further in ME3! I understand wanting to make a game perfect but, well look at duck nukem, At lest for now perfection means never coming out, or broken, sad but true

It has very little to do with Nassana and everything to do with the original post and several that followed. In a NO SPOILER FORUM, there are some spoilers there, however big or small you feel they may be.

[Toastysoul]

There aren't some spoilers here, there are MAJOR plot spoilers in the entire first page. They should really delete this thread for the sake of people that haven't completed the game.

[mattahraw]

I have to agree with the OP, i loved me2 but not showing the new council was a real cop out. I felt like there was very little reward for having a renegade import and a paragon import saved and ready, the game really wasn't very different at all.



It just felt like those MASSIVE decisions at the end of ME1 had almost zero payoff. Left me feeling a little ripped off.



if the massive decision at the end of ME2 has very little to no impact in ME3 i will be very, very let down.



that said it's still an awesome game. Would have liked to see the endgame decisions really impact the citadel at least.

[ScorpSt]

From what I've heard, if Wrex isn't alive, there is no one on the throne. Wrex was the only one capable of uniting the clans and if he's dead, they aren't united.

[Mak89]

The problem though is this. Since you are able to keep these people or not and make these decisions, they can't be a big part. Lot's of people maybe didn't save Wrex, he is confined to a smaller role. Another thing to point out is that this is a completely different story. ME2 is about Cerberus, not the council and alliance. From my point of view getting rid of the council was perfect, they are useless. It is somewhat dissapointing having the small run-ins but for them to make it better that involves more time and work and it's up to them to decide. It's still cool importing your character and choices, but yes if they spent more time with it we wouldn't have this issue. Council though=not a factor anymore.

[MerrickShep]

Craig McDermott wrote...

Council decision: The council's entire role in ME2 was a 30-second long conversation.  Anderson still has his old office in the embassies; he doesn't even show up in the council hologram thing.

Virmire decision: Kaiden showed up out of nowhere and said a couple lines of dialogue.  Great.  I'm assuming Ashley would have showed up in the same place and said the same stuff.

Wrex decision: Again, a few lines of dialogue.  I'm sure that if Wrex is dead there's just a different krogan in the throne area who says the exact same stuff.  Even worse was his replacement squadmate, a generic krogan without the interesting personality and storyline of Wrex.

Nassana Dantius: She recognizes me but as far as I can tell our past experience had no effect on the outcome of the Thane quest.

Everything else from ME1: "Commander, you have a new email at your terminal."

Um Grunt wasn't a Generic Krogan, did you even play the game. He is forged from the most powerful Krogan in history and he doens't have many interesting stories because he was just born.

Other than that I agree with everything else you said.

If the councils dead or alive you still get nothing out of that, Kaiden or Ash just harshly reject you and I would honestly kill them both if I could because they are completly pointless at this point.

I quite enjoyed my encounter with Wrex hopefully there is actually something decent with him in ME3 he is by far the most interesting Mass Effect character.

I'm also disapointed in my reunion with Liara, all I got was a short kiss and then she goes all ape **** about the Shadow Broker. I didn't even feel any connection with her anymore therefore I was not faithful to her becuase she didn't seem to have any interest in me anymore.

[ScorpSt]

MerrickShep wrote...

Craig McDermott wrote...

Council decision: The council's entire role in ME2 was a 30-second long conversation.  Anderson still has his old office in the embassies; he doesn't even show up in the council hologram thing.

Virmire decision: Kaiden showed up out of nowhere and said a couple lines of dialogue.  Great.  I'm assuming Ashley would have showed up in the same place and said the same stuff.

Wrex decision: Again, a few lines of dialogue.  I'm sure that if Wrex is dead there's just a different krogan in the throne area who says the exact same stuff.  Even worse was his replacement squadmate, a generic krogan without the interesting personality and storyline of Wrex.

Nassana Dantius: She recognizes me but as far as I can tell our past experience had no effect on the outcome of the Thane quest.

Everything else from ME1: "Commander, you have a new email at your terminal."

Um Grunt wasn't a Generic Krogan, did you even play the game. He is forged from the most powerful Krogan in history and he doens't have many interesting stories because he was just born.

Other than that I agree with everything else you said.

If the councils dead or alive you still get nothing out of that, Kaiden or Ash just harshly reject you and I would honestly kill them both if I could because they are completly pointless at this point.

I quite enjoyed my encounter with Wrex hopefully there is actually something decent with him in ME3 he is by far the most interesting Mass Effect character.

I'm also disapointed in my reunion with Liara, all I got was a short kiss and then she goes all ape **** about the Shadow Broker. I didn't even feel any connection with her anymore therefore I was not faithful to her becuase she didn't seem to have any interest in me anymore.

When you're talking to Liara, whatever you do, do not select "Liara's needs" from the Investigate menu. You miss out on a very touching scene where Liara explains why she's so mad at the Shadow Broker.

[We Tigers]

Craig McDermott wrote...

Brijenieve wrote...
Will saving Wrex result in saving the universe? Maybe, maybe not. On the other hand, in a real universe, one decision doesn't typically change EVERYTHING either.

One decision doesn't have to change everything, but from the way Bioware was hyping their game I expected the major decisions to have a significant impact.

Saving Wrex is a good example.  It ultimately changed nothing...Why bother even having this decision in the game? 

Honestly, I doubt Bioware was really thinking that far ahead at a lot of the decision points in the first game.  Those decisions were meant to be impactful in Mass Effect, not Mass Effect 2.  What you do with Wrex is more about the drama it creates right there than what it'll do in the future.  Same with the other big decision on Virmire.  They were trying to make the best game they could, and having playthroughs be able to shift that drastically for different players was a big part of it. 

I thought what they did as far as integration into ME2 was pretty good, and that part of the reason there are fewer major "do this, or do that" choices in ME2 are the difficulties they encountered in trying to integrate the choices from the first game.  Since we're in the no spoilers forum, I'll just say that while there are options/choices to conclude most of the loyalty missions, the majority of those really feel like closed loops that 1) add to the quality of ME2's characters and stories, and 2) set up for small NPC interludes or developments in ME3 without having to set expectations too high.

Modifié par We Tigers, 11 février 2010 - 06:40 .

[Vandal3]

It can be difficult to program and implement every little detail from the first game and have them alter the story in some way. The butterfly effect is a **** like that.

[IceTitan]

 Thing is everyone thinks your dead, the e-mails, act more in a way that people are slowly learning your death isn't true anymore, and are finding out. Basicly ME2 is and does feel like a transition game. The choices do show their effects, but it's in the final game that they will have the most impact.

-Where the romances will have their biggest impact story wise.
-Where the battle with the reapers will be worked out certain ways  (killing the council might make it so the Turians/Asary and Solarians refuse to stand with the humans and get caught with their pants down. Refusing to beleive you till the very end.) while maybe leaving the council alive will make it easier to rouse them.
-The rachni again is a massive change.
-Wrex means that the Krogan's will more than likely not rebel, while without Wrex their aid might come at a higher price.


The choices are long term effects not short term. I expected them to just be a side effect, but in ME3 I do expect them to really work and flesh the various choices. Otherwise bioware loses my support forever.

But it's in ME3 combine the choices in ME1 and ME 2 , and the fight with the reapers could end differently, races being wiped out, others surviving, galactic war triggered afterwards, golden age, mass extinction, the list goes on.

It's disapointing that the choices don't seem to be that important in ME2, but it has only been 2 years, and you have been considered dead for those 2 years.

And from the impression I get, ME2 game span happens within less than a year.

Modifié par IceTitan, 11 février 2010 - 07:03 .

[DomerPyle]

i agree. they were all meaningless in me2. but, then again, bioware would've had to work harder to make them have an actual impact (as in, develop two seperate gameplay paths for each decision carried over. and to actually create quests and stuff for each e-mail regarding me1 stuff). and the resulting extra data would've eliminated consoles as a feasible platform for this game.

Modifié par DomerPyle, 11 février 2010 - 07:08 .

[Craig McDermott]

MerrickShep wrote...

Um Grunt wasn't a Generic Krogan, did you even play the game. He is forged from the most powerful Krogan in history and he doens't have many interesting stories because he was just born.

Face it, he was a generic krogan.  He supposedly has genes and imprints from great historical krogan, but no actual personality of his own.  He's an "everyman" krogan, just a belligerent warrior type with no real character.  Wrex was not generic; Grunt is.

MerrickShep wrote...
If the councils dead or alive you still get nothing out of that, Kaiden or Ash just harshly reject you and I would honestly kill them both if I could because they are completly pointless at this point.

I'm also disapointed in my reunion with Liara, all I got was a short kiss and then she goes all ape **** about the Shadow Broker. I didn't even feel any connection with her anymore therefore I was not faithful to her becuase she didn't seem to have any interest in me anymore.

I agree about the Kaiden/Ash encounter.  When I realized how minimal Kaiden's role had become I figured I would just execute him, but selecting the "I don't think so" option when he says he's going to report back to the council unfortunately didn't end with him dead.

I forgot to mention the Liara encounter in OP.  Personally I found the huge 180 that her character took to be ridiculous.  She didn't seem like the same character at all; hopefully they can explain this in DLC or ME3 or it would be better just killing off her character.

[Massadonious1]

Why is waiting until ME3 unreasonable? We're in a trilogy here, folks. Not everything needs to be resolved by the second act.

For example:

The council were always tentative jerkfaces. They only acted on irrefuetable evidence in the first game. While I'm sure people expected more loyalty, do you honestly think they would of just said, "here are 50 Turian dreadnaughts, go do Spectre stuff." based on Shepard's word?

Given their history, and their status (they are still politicians) it makes sense that they will only start caring when the lives of everyone in the galaxy are staring down the barrels of multiple Reaper ships, and not just their own.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 11 février 2010 - 08:12 .

[ToJKa1]

Craig McDermott wrote...

I forgot to mention the Liara encounter in OP.  Personally I found the huge 180 that her character took to be ridiculous.  She didn't seem like the same character at all; hopefully they can explain this in DLC or ME3 or it would be better just killing off her character.

It is actually explained in this game already, just Investigate why she is so angry after completing her second mission.

Personally, i feel like i'm missing half the game when not importing a ME1 character, the decisions the game defaults to just aren't mine, and even those meaningless e-mails add a little flavour to the game world. I was surprised i didn't encounter Toombs' mercenaries, though.

Modifié par ToJKa1, 11 février 2010 - 08:11 .

[Craig McDermott]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Why is waiting until ME3 unreasonable? We're in a trilogy here, folks. Not everything needs to be resolved by the second act.

Not everything needs to be resolved by the second act, but it would be nice to see how your decisions from ME1 are changing the course of events in ME2, even if the storyline hasn't been fully resolved.  The major decisions from ME1 had minor implications at best in ME2, and the sidequests from ME1 are mostly emails.  Even the sidequests that seemed tailored to carry over, like allowing Nirali Bhatia's corpse to be used for research, had no effect.

[bloodstalker1973]

I got the feeling saving Wrex had a major impact on the ME universe. If Wrex there, there are some drastic differences in how where the future of the krogan race is headed. Some things seem less important at the moment, but Wrex definately has a major impact on how things are playing out in krogan society wihich could have huge implications on into the next game.

[Starbiter]

OP is right.

Consider this. The major final decision you make in ME 1 is whether or not to save the council. And in ME 2 it is entirely possible to beat the game without every talking to the council or even setting foot on the citadel.

Continuity fail.

Modifié par Starbiter, 11 février 2010 - 08:56 .

[AntiChri5]

Starbiter wrote...

OP is right.

Consider this. The major final decision you make in ME 1 is whether or not to save the council. And in ME 2 it is entirely possible to beat the game without every talking to the council or even setting foot on the citadel.

Continuity fail.

That post just pretty much owned this topic. Impossible to disagree with.

[screwoffreg]

Starbiter wrote...

OP is right.

Consider this. The major final decision you make in ME 1 is whether or not to save the council. And in ME 2 it is entirely possible to beat the game without every talking to the council or even setting foot on the citadel.

Continuity fail.

Not really if that decision leads over to ME 3.  I imagine on top of your ME 2 decisions, a select "core" of ME 1 decisions will transfer over than could radically change the game.  Rachni, council, and perhaps one or two other things such as who died on Virmire.

[AntiChri5]

screwoffreg wrote...

Starbiter wrote...

OP is right.

Consider this. The major final decision you make in ME 1 is whether or not to save the council. And in ME 2 it is entirely possible to beat the game without every talking to the council or even setting foot on the citadel.

Continuity fail.

Not really if that decision leads over to ME 3.  I imagine on top of your ME 2 decisions, a select "core" of ME 1 decisions will transfer over than could radically change the game.  Rachni, council, and perhaps one or two other things such as who died on Virmire.

Yes, but we are talking about ME 2. Bringing ME 3 into it is alot like talking about Hippoptamous breeding habits. None of us really know enough about it to comment..

[screwoffreg]

AntiChri5 wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Starbiter wrote...

OP is right.

Consider this. The major final decision you make in ME 1 is whether or not to save the council. And in ME 2 it is entirely possible to beat the game without every talking to the council or even setting foot on the citadel.

Continuity fail.

Not really if that decision leads over to ME 3.  I imagine on top of your ME 2 decisions, a select "core" of ME 1 decisions will transfer over than could radically change the game.  Rachni, council, and perhaps one or two other things such as who died on Virmire.

Yes, but we are talking about ME 2. Bringing ME 3 into it is alot like talking about Hippoptamous breeding habits. None of us really know enough about it to comment..

Well it is made blatantly obvious that certain decisions WILL matter.  This thread is like someone complaining that it was lame that something that happens in Star Wars IV or Fellowship of the Ring is not concluded in their first sequel.  A trilogy is a build up, a snowball effect of many different decisions that ultimately lead to a resolution.  You can't expect every major plot point to conclude or necessarily even be addressed in the second game.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 11 février 2010 - 09:08 .

[TuringPoint]

The effects could've hit home in a bigger way, but it's never been done as thoroughly in any other game, and that's the truth.

[Red Viking]

What I liked is that the decisions you made in the first game create your own personal narrative. Your decisions do matter. I would have liked them to have had more of an impact, sure, but I was still pleased that my decisions had an impact in how the story unfolded. After playing through the game, it looks like the intent there was to have your decisions either come to fruition or come back to bite you in the ass in the trilogy's final act while giving you reminders what you had done up until that point.

For example. If you helped this one NPC in the first game, she'll show up again in the second and, if you helped her with the quest she gives you, the game heavily hints that she'll return again in the third game as a potential love interest for Shepard.

Modifié par Red Viking, 11 février 2010 - 09:11 .