264 réponses à ce sujet

[MonkeyLungs]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think you're misunderstanding the concept of software patches. If a system is working as designed, we're not going to patch it. What you're asking for is to change the game, not fix it, and that is not the usual purpose of patches.

We cannot and will not customize the game for each individual who happens to like or dislike specific parts of the game, just as authors do not routinely re-write passages in their book to satisfy individuals who happen to want something changed.

not liking something is fine. Preferring something else is fine. Asking for a feature to be removed because you don't like it is selfish and unreasonable. There are thousands upon thousands of other players out there, each with his own opinions and preferences. You wouldn't like it if they called for us to "patch out" something you enjoyed, would you?

Well most  players, and every review I have read has had something negative to say about scanning. Just throwing that out there for you.

[MonkeyLungs]

So you fall in the minority of people that think scanning is fun. No worries. I stand by my statement. Most players don't enjoy scanning. Will most of us put up with it and do it to gather resources? Sure. Because we like to upgrade our characters. But if you could choose to scan a planet or talk to some NPC's, get into some battles, use your biotic powers, and help out some teammates which one would you choose.



Scanning is completely 'separate-feeling' from the rest of the game. It is like it's own entity within the ME2 experience and it is without any doubt in my mind THE WEAKEST LINK of the entire gaming experience.

[arch4non]

Please make mineral scanning faster.

[MonkeyLungs]

There is probably a poll somewhere on these boards that backs me up.



Most players don't enjoy the scanning. You don't have to believe me.

[Booster008]

BaxterBoy123 wrote...

its not that bad if you are on xbox then just keep tapping left trigger i dont know about PC though...

yes it's that bad on xbox. it's several times worse than PC scanning.

[RhythmlessNinja]

Patch all these whiners while you're at it, they cry like they have some serious injuries that need fixing.

Modifié par RhythmlessNinja, 11 février 2010 - 02:24 .

[mp84]

In reality, I give Bioware props for just saying we're not gonna do something like that.. Not many developers will say that, guess that's the answer for scanning.



Maybe Mass Effect 3 will be different though, so we'll see.. hehe

[Jim_uk]

I didn't mind the Mako exploring, there was nothing wrong with it that running a smoothing tool over the landscape wouldn't have fixed. I really dislike the scanning, it gets boring after the first planet, by the end of the game it's become a real chore. I can understand why you wouldn't want to patch out a "feature" but maybe adding an autoscan upgrade would be an option. PC users need not despair though, just grab the save game editor and add the resources through that, then you only have to quickly check planets for side missions. www.masseffectsaves.com/mods.php

[Taiko Roshi]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think you're misunderstanding the concept of software patches. If a system is working as designed, we're not going to patch it. What you're asking for is to change the game, not fix it, and that is not the usual purpose of patches.

We cannot and will not customize the game for each individual who happens to like or dislike specific parts of the game, just as authors do not routinely re-write passages in their book to satisfy individuals who happen to want something changed.

not liking something is fine. Preferring something else is fine. Asking for a feature to be removed because you don't like it is selfish and unreasonable. There are thousands upon thousands of other players out there, each with his own opinions and preferences. You wouldn't like it if they called for us to "patch out" something you enjoyed, would you?

That is very correct. In this case there are thousands upon thousands of players who detest scanning. As in another thread. I think the OP should instead of asking for you to "cut" the terrible mini-game completely, patch in an OPTIONS menu which helps FINE TUNE a number of the games features. Systems Shock did it way back when. why can't ME have it?

Modifié par Taiko Roshi, 11 février 2010 - 02:37 .

[RhedmondBarry]

After your first playthrough you get 50,000 of each resource and then combine that with only about an hour of scanning and you're pretty much done scanning for that playthrough. Not too tedious, but my left index finger (Xbox 360, LT) can certainly feel for some of you.

[durasteel]

I like the upgrade system 100% more than the inventory system, personally.  I even think that scanning for resources from orbit makes a lot more sense than driving up the side of a mountain to decrypt a rock.  That said, I think scanning sucks as it is currently implemented.

The scanning process is not a challenge at all, it is merely a chore.  There is no way to "fail" the scanning, no plot element is hidden in the palladium, and even the cost of the probes is trivial.  There is, therefore, no real reason to compel the player to rub the beach ball.

The Normandy has a full crew compliment, and an advanced AI.  Hell, EDI provides running commentary the entire time, and seems to be in charge of actually dispatching the probe at your command.  Why can't EDI just handle the whole thing?  Why is the Commander the only one on the entire ship capable of rubbing the beach ball?

Scanning should be automatic, it should take a little time, and should have a pretty basic animation associated with it.  The current animation is fine, it just needs to run on auto-pilot.  It should take about 20 seconds for EDI to scan a planet.

Now, I'm not gonna say that this should necessarily be done in a patch, or in a DLC, or whatever.  The truth is that it should have been better implemented at release.  If BioWare wants to stick with Mr. Woo's "working as intended" position, that's fine: I'll just download the saved game editor and give Shepard a half million units once I reach the point that I can't stand the thought of rubbing another damn beach ball.  On the other hand, adding in one-click scanning in a patch or DLC might seem like y'all are being responsive.

The implication that you're not willing to consider altering the scanner because you don't tailor the game to individual players is laughable.  No one likes the manual scanner.  Some people don't mind it, most people dislike it, and a few people loathe it.  Do you consider tailoring your games to your player base as a whole?  Of course you do.  That's why people like your games.

I'll keep buying them, playing them, and enjoying them, one way or another.  With regard to this game in particular, I'll enjoy it a lot more if, on subsequent play-throughs, I no longer have to rub the giant beach ball in space.

[corebit]

There is no need to remove the scanning feature, that would be too drastic.

I think a good solution is add a new button called "Auto Scan" in the planet scanning screen. Pressing the button immediately "consumes" an appropriate number of probes, and it automatically adds minerals to you until that planet's status becomes "Depleted".Some hypothetical costs:



A "Rich" planet costs 15 probes.

A "Good" planet costs 10.

A "Moderate" planet costs 5.



If you have less probes than the required amount for each planet, the "Auto Scan" button is grayed out until you buy more probes.

[durasteel]

corebit wrote...

There is no need to remove the scanning feature, that would be too drastic.
I think a good solution is add a new button called "Auto Scan" in the planet scanning screen. Pressing the button immediately "consumes" an appropriate number of probes, and it automatically adds minerals to you until that planet's status becomes "Depleted".Some hypothetical costs:

A "Rich" planet costs 15 probes.
A "Good" planet costs 10.
A "Moderate" planet costs 5.

If you have less probes than the required amount for each planet, the "Auto Scan" button is grayed out until you buy more probes.

I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite post on the BioWare Social Network.

[NeoGuardian86]

it'd be nice if they had the cursor move faster on the 360 version.

but on PC i can live with, you can move the mouse faster than you can on the 360.

[StormbringerGT]

v0x-m4china wrote...

Sorry if this has been suggested, I can't find a search option for the forums.

Honestly, it's just a bad design. My MX Revolution's right click micro-switch is now dying. Wanna know how fun it is playing a cover game when every other time you lean out to aim it fails and pops you back behind cover before you can even line up a shot? Not at all.

On top of that my hand now hurts from my middle finger to my little finger and my wrist. And no the scanner upgrade doesn't help any of that at all. Besides, reducing physical pain should not be an incentive to do something in a game.

I don't even agree with most of the suggestions to "fix" scanning as it just detracts from the gameplay that keeps most if not all of us in this series: combat, conversations, and exploration.

Please just patch this out, add a one click scan button, maybe an auto-scanner that will spend say 5 probes on the top 5 resource sites. Don't let it scan below moderate for balance if you want. I don't really care as long as I don't have to move that crosshair around planets anymore. Make it optional if you think there's someone out there that actually enjoys scanning but... please. This is a really amazing game and any other issues I have can be chalked up to personal preference that don't impact my enjoyment all that much, but breaking my fairly expensive mouse and risking permanent nerve damage is a little much to ask.

I find it hard to believe this made it through testing. And yet, here it is. Is anybody else out there with me on this?

No thank you. I don't mind scanning. Please do not remove a feature I enjoy.

[FitShaced]

v0x-m4china wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think you're misunderstanding the concept of software patches. If a system is working as designed, we're not going to patch it. What you're asking for is to change the game, not fix it, and that is not the usual purpose of patches.

We cannot and will not customize the game for each individual who happens to like or dislike specific parts of the game, just as authors do not routinely re-write passages in their book to satisfy individuals who happen to want something changed.

not liking something is fine. Preferring something else is fine. Asking for a feature to be removed because you don't like it is selfish and unreasonable. There are thousands upon thousands of other players out there, each with his own opinions and preferences. You wouldn't like it if they called for us to "patch out" something you enjoyed, would you?

I don't see how asking for something to be done about a feature that causes pain and breaks equipment is "personal preference." If it was merely that I would not have posted.

In fact I thought I was pretty clear about how I would not post such personal preference requests in anything other than a cordial fan manner. I do believe that would be selfish, asking you to fix a serious issue that can cause damage to person and property in a product I have paid for is not. 

I'm not even sure you actually read my post as it included the suggestion of keeping scanning in as an option for those that may like it and even inferred that this could be fixed with an addition to the game as another upgrade (auto-scanner.)

And thank you for responding to an honest plea by calling me selfish and brushing me of with a line like "working as designed."

Damn, who are you trying to impress. Talk normally.

[Ahglock]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think you're misunderstanding the concept of software patches. If a system is working as designed, we're not going to patch it. What you're asking for is to change the game, not fix it, and that is not the usual purpose of patches.

We cannot and will not customize the game for each individual who happens to like or dislike specific parts of the game, just as authors do not routinely re-write passages in their book to satisfy individuals who happen to want something changed.

not liking something is fine. Preferring something else is fine. Asking for a feature to be removed because you don't like it is selfish and unreasonable. There are thousands upon thousands of other players out there, each with his own opinions and preferences. You wouldn't like it if they called for us to "patch out" something you enjoyed, would you?

Yes I'm sure all 5% of the players who think it doesn't suck monkey ass would be appalled at it disapearing.  I'm actually boggled something this bad could make it into a game that has any playtesting.  Is there some kind of checkbox that you wanted to mark off.  "Add mindnumbingly boring feature that takes way too much of the game time so we can say it is a 30 hour game"  Check...

This is overall a bad ass game, but scanning on its own destroys replayability. 

[UltimateRC]

Pretext: I'm a completionist. I complete my games to within an inch of their life if it still entertains me on some level. I like to read every piece of text, hear every peice of dialogue, go to every corner, discover every area, loot everything. Especially with RPGs. Even more so with BIOWARE RPGs.

When I started ME2 I did just that, I went to every planet, read all their descriptions, mined every last drop out of planets I came across, sure that there was some point to it. 

About half way though my game (30 hours-ish) I started to get bored with this scanning, I'm meticulous when it comes to my RPGs, it was taking 10 minutes a planet at least. I'd already amassed hundreds of thousands of each of the 3 lesser elements. My path to ultimate upgrade was no longer blocked by lack of resources, but by the fact that the game wouldn't allow me to conduct research that I could see sitting their in the computer.

So,
I came to the forums, then I get told here that I'm actually completely wasting my time trying to aquire everything. Would have been nice to have an in-game heads-up ya know? Also, that you can use the right stick on the horizon to speed up scanning.... why? Its pointless, just make the normal scan speed higher. Its not SKILL nor DEPTH, its irrational and arbitrary. Plus, that requires the use of a stick that is barely used in any of the rest of the galaxy-map interface, and has NEVER had a 'hey, use this to turn the planet faster' message. Wheres your usability testing?

In the end, I completely gave up on scanning any more planets, didn't need to. I only went around the remaining ones to see if there were any more N7 missions. Which were few, and rather pointless. Reading descriptions? Entirely boring. OOH, another gas giant inside the 'frost line.' OOH, ANOTHER rocky planet, OOH another planet that looks exactly like the 4 other cricket-ball planets I've already seen. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

Cut the fluff.

The scanning missions are infinitely more tedious than navigating your way through an environment in a bouncy vehicle.

Add to that the fact that I have to wait 5 second every. single. time. Launch 60 probes? Congrats, you've just wasted 5 minutes of your life watching an animation that is not interesting, adds nothing, and serves no purpose.

And another thing, why the **** is commander shepard doing this crap? For one, I have dozens crew members on my ship, most of which I have no idea what their job is, they seem to just sit and chat (or not), or surf the extranet, all day. Why can't one of them do this and I just dictate what level of spike is acceptable to retreive and bomb! job done. Or Edi for that matter? She's obviously already scanned the planet on some level. Why can't she just do everything? Or at least give me target areas?

Additionally, I'm flying around colony planets, registered mining planets, planets in established systems, with various cultures and groups that own them or have operations already set-up on them, and yet, I am still getting hundreds of thousands of units of resources by sending down probes from ORBIT? And all vested parties are OKAY with this? WTF!?

I can understand in some barely-charted terminus systems that I can get resources, but in SOL!? WTF? And if you're going to say that its not economical for anybody else to have got these resources yet, why in the HELL am I doing it? Normandy ain't a mining vessel! Its a goddamn stealth recon and attack ship! Why don't I just buy them?

Seems like someone in design saw the 'tag resources for the continued expansion of the alliance' mission from ME1, and thought it needed some arbitrary mini-game. But it needs a point! I know! Tie it to upgrades! YEAH! Obviously a warship is the best place to do research too!

*SIGH*

To summarise: 
It is the worst part of the game.
It is tedium personified.
You don't communicate to the player how much they should mine, ever.
Its operation (moving to and probing planets) is funded by a finite resource (credits) for a practically (in relation to how much you need) limitless resource.
It is just slow.
Boring soundtrack.
Boring animation.
Animation slows down game, wastes time.
Makes absolutely no sense in the universe context.
Repeated and boring planets aren't needed. DENSITY over breadth.


*phew*
Been wanting to write that for days.

Modifié par UltimateRC, 11 février 2010 - 04:06 .

[hex23]

I personally don't mind the scanning. Then again I'm on PC.



Even so, if this was two weeks ago I could understand the complaints. But now? There is a million "ME2" guides all over the 'net that tell you exactly what planets to scan for what. It's possible to scan a handful of planets and have enough resources to last most of the game.

[Erucolindo]

This forum has gotten to three pages, and i don't want to take the time to read every single entry to see if someone else suggest what I'm about to suggest. If someone else does, then i apologize.

Anyways, I'm a PC user. So what's with all the clicking for scanning?? You are away that you can actually just hold down the Right mouse button and it will still scan just fine. Hold that button down and sweep over the planet in a grid pattern. I start at the top and go from left to right. When I get to the bottom I rotate the planet and repeat. When I get a hit ( i only usually click on big jumps, and not minor ones to save time and probes) i hit left mouse button which stops scanning (so you can let up the right mouse button).

If you scan every planet at first until all your resource bars are well up there, you can switch to only scanning planets until they are labled good or moderate, and then move on. I never ran out of resources after a point.

I don't think they meant for you to click every single time..

Though, all that aside, I will admit that it's still kind of boring after a while. I would much much much rather land on those planets and risk running into random pirates or geth or something to get those minerals then do the scanning. I mean the devs took a small part of landing on a planet and made it so huge while shrinking the potential combant and such down to nothing. Also, mining was worth more in ME1 cause you got creds for surveying it. Now you just get the resource, which you get more then you will ever need. I mean i've got such a surplus of "rare" minerals that i could upgrade my ship several times over.

I can't tell you how many times I saw that a planet was known to harbor pirates or geth or something and all I could do was scan for stuff i didn't really need.

Modifié par Erucolindo, 11 février 2010 - 03:55 .

[UltimateRC]

hex23 wrote...
Even so, if this was two weeks ago I could understand the complaints. But now? There is a million "ME2" guides all over the 'net that tell you exactly what planets to scan for what. It's possible to scan a handful of planets and have enough resources to last most of the game.

If only a handful of planets give you what you need, why even have the other ones? It creates the illusion that you're going to need a lot of resouces, when you don't even need 40% of them.

Why should I have to look at a guide on the internet (i.e. not a heads-up message in the game) to make one of its features less mind-numbingly awful? Probably (this is a guess, yes) hundreds of thousands of people that bought, or will buy, this game will never look at a guide on the internet for it.

Why should I have to look at a guide as to what planets to scan? Any logical systematic approach should yield what you need, but it seems arbitrary and random.

Its a bad feature, no getting around that. As I said, its the worst in the game. And as its pretty much required for any level of success, something needs to be done for the sanity of both current and future players.

I think if Bioware looked at the stats (that I assume they're gathering) then they'd find that a lot of players lost a lot of party members because they didn't upgrade the ship or weapons completely. Because they got so sick of it!

[Randy1012]

Stanley Woo wrote...

not liking something is fine. Preferring something else is fine. Asking for a feature to be removed because you don't like it is selfish and unreasonable. There are thousands upon thousands of other players out there, each with his own opinions and preferences. You wouldn't like it if they called for us to "patch out" something you enjoyed, would you?

What? No video games a la carte?

I want my money back. All of it.

Yes, even for Shattered Steel.

[Erucolindo]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think you're misunderstanding the concept of software patches. If a system is working as designed, we're not going to patch it. What you're asking for is to change the game, not fix it, and that is not the usual purpose of patches.

We cannot and will not customize the game for each individual who happens to like or dislike specific parts of the game, just as authors do not routinely re-write passages in their book to satisfy individuals who happen to want something changed.

not liking something is fine. Preferring something else is fine. Asking for a feature to be removed because you don't like it is selfish and unreasonable. There are thousands upon thousands of other players out there, each with his own opinions and preferences. You wouldn't like it if they called for us to "patch out" something you enjoyed, would you?

Well what if the design for a system turned out to be bad? Wouldn't you at least look at it and see if it couldn't be improved upon? Removing it all together is drastic, but shouldn't it be looked at to see if it can be made less tedious and more useful? Maybe add the chance to find other minerals that can be sold for creds or some salvagable tech from a downed ship like the way a scan of a planet in ME1 would get a prothean data disc?