264 réponses à ce sujet

[krylo]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

There is probably a poll somewhere on these boards that backs me up.

Most players don't enjoy the scanning. You don't have to believe me.

There is.

It shows something of an even split for PC users on scanning/Mako, which is understandable as I understand the Mako was even worse on the PC than the 360 (and it wasn't well implemented there, either, in so far as side missions go).

360 users, however, show closer to a 3/4 or 4/5 preference for the Mako to the scanning.  Which is, again, understandable as that scanning was more poorly implemented/slower on the 360 than the PC.


However, that means over all it's something like a 60-70% preference for the Mako as opposed to Scanning, which still isn't as large of a division as you seem to assume.

Though I'd extrapolate if the poll would have had a 'both are terrible' option instead of having PC users decide between two things that they don't like, we'd see a much cleaner/fuller preference for just getting rid of scanning, given that it adds nothing to the game except a time sink.

I'd post the poll but finding anything on these forums is kind of a pain considering there doesn't seem to be search option anywhere.  I know the guy who made it had a volus avatar, though.

Modifié par krylo, 11 février 2010 - 04:06 .

[v0x-m4china]

Let me clarify my position.



Firstly, I apologize for my "suggestion," yes in quotes, that it be removed altogether. I don't actually believe that nor would I seriously suggest such a involved change. My inclusion of "patch it out" was to make the thread pop out at people and hopefully call some developer attention to the fact that there are people out here who are actually experiencing physical pain in the scanning process and that official modifications should be made as that's simply not right. Though apparently I did not do so well enough and it has backfired on me as very few people seem to be able to look past that and read for comprehension the rest of my post. I had forgotten what forums were like.



I know how much work it takes to produce a game, that actually removing a feature so ingrained into the game is far beyond expectable and I intended to point out that there were other solutions, and I believe I did. I admit I could have been more clear had I taken the time to do so.



As for my mouse breaking. I don't think of this as much more than an anecdote. Switches only last so long, and I don't lay that solely at the feet of the developers. Hardware dies over time, end of story. It's simply interesting to me that it dies while doing something that also murders my hand. Again I could have been more specific on the matter.



Please just take from this that there are people out here who actually hurt while playing the game, and who enjoy it so much that they will play it regardless of the danger to themselves. I know I'm not the only one, someone has already posted the same experience in this thread and I know there are other threads out there saying the same.



There are many suggestions for improvements that have popped up in this thread and all over these forums, even if you don't like any of them, I hope you care enough about your fans to come up with some solution. And again, disliking pain is not really a "preference." I'm still kind of in awe at that.



And for the record, I actually liked scanning at first, and I still like the concept. The pain I don't.



@FitShaced lol sorry, i just happen to believe that proper language goes a long way to showing intelligence and that you're not merely a troll, few trolls i've ever seen bother with it. and to me this is an important enough issue to involve such an incredible formality.

[Solmanian]

i'm playing on a pc, wat's the scanner upgrade suppose to do?

Also i don't see them removing the system, but as long as we a dev looking at the thread, what the chances of a DLC that allowes us to sell resources? lack of credits is the main reason why we can't fully upgrade before the suicide mission...

[Moldy Poptarts]

I liked the press Y and get minerals/whatever. Scanning would be far more enjoyable if it was faster, i figure out how to scan fast on the 360 but still, doing it any other way is absurd. I have only so much time to devote to the game per day, id rather not have a significant amount of it being allocated to tedium. I liek the user's suggestion of 15 probes for a rich planet 10 for good, etc. Use that for a quick, gimme cash fly by. However that wont give you nearly as many resources if you manually scanned it. Options are good, no? Quick an easy= moderate income while manual = mega bucks/N7 missions.

[Nomen Mendax]

I agree with most people on the thread, scanning is boring, makes no sense whatsoever in the game and should be automated both in the fictional game world and in the the game itself.

I'm also fairly surprised that anyone during play-testing could have found it remotely interesting.  Perhaps working for a cool company like Bioware is so much fun that a few minutes of complete tedium is a welcome break.

[Rocketman970]

krylo wrote...

There is.

It shows something of an even split for PC users on scanning/Mako, which is understandable as I understand the Mako was even worse on the PC than the 360 (and it wasn't well implemented there, either, in so far as side missions go).

360 users, however, show closer to a 3/4 or 4/5 preference for the Mako to the scanning.  Which is, again, understandable as that scanning was more poorly implemented/slower on the 360 than the PC.


However, that means over all it's something like a 60-70% preference for the Mako as opposed to Scanning, which still isn't as large of a division as you seem to assume.

Though I'd extrapolate if the poll would have had a 'both are terrible' option instead of having PC users decide between two things that they don't like, we'd see a much cleaner/fuller preference for just getting rid of scanning, given that it adds nothing to the game except a time sink.

I'd post the poll but finding anything on these forums is kind of a pain considering there doesn't seem to be search option anywhere.  I know the guy who made it had a volus avatar, though.

If you aren't talking about my poll then my apologies, but here is the link:

http://social.biowar...618/polls/1951/

Didn't want to include a "Both Suck" option because I wanted people to have to choose between the lesser of two evils if they didn't like either system.

As for my own opinion, planet scanning makes me want to gouge out both of my eyes with rusty spoons...Worst idea ever to come out of BioWare...Mako please!

[Solmanian]

My suggestion for ME3: remove the whole looking for resources. We see exactly the the same complaints in ME1 and ME2, ppl don't want to breakoff from the game and go on a mining expedetion. So bring back Omni-gel, and use it as a meta-resource. You'll get it from killing enemies (especialy boss-like Ymir's and such), and for completing varius missions/quests. This way the resource gathering will be "streamlined" into the gameplay, and not become an annoying distraction.

[drstg]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Darkest Dreamer wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We cannot and will not customize the game for each individual who happens to like or dislike specific parts of the game.

Not even for me? But, but, I bought Return to Ostagar, I'm a valued customer!

That's it, I'm not buying the next piece of DLC! Bioware will just have to go with one less donut during breaks! Fear my vengeful wrath!

Traitors!

nope, the Dragon Aage team was rather specific about you, Darkest Dreamer. "That Darkest Dreamer," they said. "Let's ignore all his suggestions and make sure the game is not customized for him." i knew it was serious when I saw the memo and found that they had dotted all the i's with frowny faces. Musta been something you said.

and this is why, no matter how much you may not like aspects of this game, you have to love Bioware. 

[krylo]

Rocketman970 wrote...

krylo wrote...

There is.

It shows something of an even split for PC users on scanning/Mako, which is understandable as I understand the Mako was even worse on the PC than the 360 (and it wasn't well implemented there, either, in so far as side missions go).

360 users, however, show closer to a 3/4 or 4/5 preference for the Mako to the scanning.  Which is, again, understandable as that scanning was more poorly implemented/slower on the 360 than the PC.


However, that means over all it's something like a 60-70% preference for the Mako as opposed to Scanning, which still isn't as large of a division as you seem to assume.

Though I'd extrapolate if the poll would have had a 'both are terrible' option instead of having PC users decide between two things that they don't like, we'd see a much cleaner/fuller preference for just getting rid of scanning, given that it adds nothing to the game except a time sink.

I'd post the poll but finding anything on these forums is kind of a pain considering there doesn't seem to be search option anywhere.  I know the guy who made it had a volus avatar, though.

If you aren't talking about my poll then my apologies, but here is the link:

http://social.biowar...618/polls/1951/

Didn't want to include a "Both Suck" option because I wanted people to have to choose between the lesser of two evils if they didn't like either system.

As for my own opinion, planet scanning makes me want to gouge out both of my eyes with rusty spoons...Worst idea ever to come out of BioWare...Mako please!

Looks like the one.

Seems like numbers have changed a bit since last time I saw it, however.  Mako is clearly winning in both arenas now, but it's closer than it was on the 360 last night.

[Phaedra Sanguine]

They all look pretty damn close. I think the playerbase is too spread out on this issue.

[Chuvvy]

corebit wrote...

There is no need to remove the scanning feature, that would be too drastic.
I think a good solution is add a new button called "Auto Scan" in the planet scanning screen. Pressing the button immediately "consumes" an appropriate number of probes, and it automatically adds minerals to you until that planet's status becomes "Depleted".Some hypothetical costs:

A "Rich" planet costs 15 probes.
A "Good" planet costs 10.
A "Moderate" planet costs 5.

If you have less probes than the required amount for each planet, the "Auto Scan" button is grayed out until you buy more probes.

****ING THIS!

[Ahglock]

Paxcorpus wrote...

They all look pretty damn close. I think the playerbase is too spread out on this issue.

It is a bad poll for this issue.  The poll is basically asking which pile of suck do you prefer.  It would be like me asking do you want me to chop off your left foot or your right foot, hey look the poll is relatively close I guess we can chop off either foot.  When really the person wants to keep both of there feet.   

[Chuvvy]

Ahglock wrote...

Paxcorpus wrote...

They all look pretty damn close. I think the playerbase is too spread out on this issue.

It is a bad poll for this issue.  The poll is basically asking which pile of suck do you prefer.  It would be like me asking do you want me to chop off your left foot or your right foot, hey look the poll is relatively close I guess we can chop off either foot.  When really the person wants to keep both of there feet.   

Left **** you left you have betrayed me to many times

[Chuvvy]

Bennyjammin79 wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...

I don't mind it. Then again, I didn't mind the Mako and the elevator rides in the first game, so maybe I'm just weird. It is something you may chose to do or not to do- which is what I love about these games.

This.

I liked the elevators,and the loading screens are just as long and thier boring,atleast you could sort of do something in the elevator.

I don't mind the mining in short burst either but you can't really do short burst if you want to get everything,and the hardest mineral to find (patinum) you need the most of like 300k+ if you take out the 50k for the medical thing it's still up there.

Modifié par Slidell505, 11 février 2010 - 05:16 .

[Mr. MannlyMan]

If we can't have a patch, could we at least get a downloadable research project that gives us a faster scanner? Only the people who want it will download it.

[IggyD]

wait a minute, don't the upgrades and resources cancel each other out?



Why mine resources? to buy upgrades.

Why buy upgrades? to spend resources.

[N0rke]

While I very much dislike scanning planets 'patching out' would be almost impossible. Quite a bit of the game is based off the resources you collect from scanning and it would be way too much trouble to try and 'fix' it. Now a toggle option is a little less far fetched but still very unlikely of happening.

[massive_effect]

v0x-m4china wrote...

Yeah I'm on PC, rapidly clicking RMB is just as bad on my hand as holding it down. And probably worse on the button considering how much clicking is required.

Pumping the trigger on 360 is not any easier.

[glen55]

UltimateRC wrote...

Pretext: I'm a completionist. I complete my games to within an inch of their life if it still entertains me on some level. I like to read every piece of text, hear every peice of dialogue, go to every corner, discover every area, loot everything. Especially with RPGs. Even more so with BIOWARE RPGs.

When I started ME2 I did just that, I went to every planet, read all their descriptions, mined every last drop out of planets I came across, sure that there was some point to it. 

About half way though my game (30 hours-ish) I started to get bored with this scanning, I'm meticulous when it comes to my RPGs, it was taking 10 minutes a planet at least. I'd already amassed hundreds of thousands of each of the 3 lesser elements. My path to ultimate upgrade was no longer blocked by lack of resources, but by the fact that the game wouldn't allow me to conduct research that I could see sitting their in the computer.

So,
I came to the forums, then I get told here that I'm actually completely wasting my time trying to aquire everything. Would have been nice to have an in-game heads-up ya know? Also, that you can use the right stick on the horizon to speed up scanning.... why? Its pointless, just make the normal scan speed higher. Its not SKILL nor DEPTH, its irrational and arbitrary. Plus, that requires the use of a stick that is barely used in any of the rest of the galaxy-map interface, and has NEVER had a 'hey, use this to turn the planet faster' message. Wheres your usability testing?

In the end, I completely gave up on scanning any more planets, didn't need to. I only went around the remaining ones to see if there were any more N7 missions. Which were few, and rather pointless. Reading descriptions? Entirely boring. OOH, another gas giant inside the 'frost line.' OOH, ANOTHER rocky planet, OOH another planet that looks exactly like the 4 other cricket-ball planets I've already seen. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

Cut the fluff.

The scanning missions are infinitely more tedious than navigating your way through an environment in a bouncy vehicle.

Add to that the fact that I have to wait 5 second every. single. time. Launch 60 probes? Congrats, you've just wasted 5 minutes of your life watching an animation that is not interesting, adds nothing, and serves no purpose.

And another thing, why the **** is commander shepard doing this crap? For one, I have dozens crew members on my ship, most of which I have no idea what their job is, they seem to just sit and chat (or not), or surf the extranet, all day. Why can't one of them do this and I just dictate what level of spike is acceptable to retreive and bomb! job done. Or Edi for that matter? She's obviously already scanned the planet on some level. Why can't she just do everything? Or at least give me target areas?

Additionally, I'm flying around colony planets, registered mining planets, planets in established systems, with various cultures and groups that own them or have operations already set-up on them, and yet, I am still getting hundreds of thousands of units of resources by sending down probes from ORBIT? And all vested parties are OKAY with this? WTF!?

I can understand in some barely-charted terminus systems that I can get resources, but in SOL!? WTF? And if you're going to say that its not economical for anybody else to have got these resources yet, why in the HELL am I doing it? Normandy ain't a mining vessel! Its a goddamn stealth recon and attack ship! Why don't I just buy them?

Seems like someone in design saw the 'tag resources for the continued expansion of the alliance' mission from ME1, and thought it needed some arbitrary mini-game. But it needs a point! I know! Tie it to upgrades! YEAH! Obviously a warship is the best place to do research too!

*SIGH*

To summarise: 
It is the worst part of the game.
It is tedium personified.
You don't communicate to the player how much they should mine, ever.
Its operation (moving to and probing planets) is funded by a finite resource (credits) for a practically (in relation to how much you need) limitless resource.
It is just slow.
Boring soundtrack.
Boring animation.
Animation slows down game, wastes time.
Makes absolutely no sense in the universe context.
Repeated and boring planets aren't needed. DENSITY over breadth.


*phew*
Been wanting to write that for days.

Truly outstanding rant.  Well played, UltimateRC.

To all who passed by the post because of its length, I highly commend you to take 2-3 minutes out of your life and read it.

[Starbiter]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think you're misunderstanding the concept of software patches. If a system is working as designed, we're not going to patch it. What you're asking for is to change the game, not fix it, and that is not the usual purpose of patches.

We cannot and will not customize the game for each individual who happens to like or dislike specific parts of the game, just as authors do not routinely re-write passages in their book to satisfy individuals who happen to want something changed.

not liking something is fine. Preferring something else is fine. Asking for a feature to be removed because you don't like it is selfish and unreasonable. There are thousands upon thousands of other players out there, each with his own opinions and preferences. You wouldn't like it if they called for us to "patch out" something you enjoyed, would you?

Ummm I think you're kind of harsh on the guy. Not because you called him selfish and unreasonable but because nobody actually loves scanning...

Honestly have any of you ever said "Yay time to start a new game so I scan again!" And if there is a part of game that is not fun and feels more like work, then why is it even in the game?

[Gemini1179]

Hey Stanley, what about Conrad Verner? Is he patch-worthy? EVERY Paragon import has him responding to what would have been the Renegade solution in ME1. Is that working as intended? This is not sarcasm, I am truly wondering if I'm missing something as far as interpreting the situation goes.

[AtreiyaN7]

I'm on a PC, and I don't have problems...you really don't have to scan obsessively. I prefer scanning to doing Mako mineral surveys (and there are those of us who do like it - wouldn't say "love it" - but it's only tedious if you really try to scour every last bit of ore from a planet).

[Fallensbane]

Scanning does not bother me all that much. Anytime I need the resources I just continue through my rewatch of Battlestar Galactica while doing the scans. 

[Juztinb42]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think you're misunderstanding the concept of software patches. If a system is working as designed, we're not going to patch it. What you're asking for is to change the game, not fix it, and that is not the usual purpose of patches.

We cannot and will not customize the game for each individual who happens to like or dislike specific parts of the game, just as authors do not routinely re-write passages in their book to satisfy individuals who happen to want something changed.

not liking something is fine. Preferring something else is fine. Asking for a feature to be removed because you don't like it is selfish and unreasonable. There are thousands upon thousands of other players out there, each with his own opinions and preferences. You wouldn't like it if they called for us to "patch out" something you enjoyed, would you?

Are you implying that there are people who enjoy planet scanning?