264 réponses à ce sujet

[krylo]

Paperghost wrote...

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

I think this is funny. They replaced the Mako with scanning because people were whining about the Mako. Now people are whining about the scanning. I rather they kept the Mako, but if enough people complain about the scanning I am afraid what dumbed down design they will put in to replace it.

i wish people would stop saying this.

The N7 missions replaced the mako missions - scanning planets for minerals is NOT the "replacement".

the fact that you sometimes picked up minerals on the mako stages was not their primary reason for existing - the cut & paste enemy bases and "exploration" were.

I believe the two are compared because driving the mako around on random planets was the worst part of ME1, and scanning is the worst part of ME2.

Though, in truth, there was no allegory to scanning in ME1.  The resources in ME1 served an entirely different purpose, and weren't nearly as necessary.  

You could get all the credits you could ever want without ever finding a single mineral deposit, and the only thing they were good for was scoring you credits.  On the other hand, if you're starting a new game from scratch, you start with 0 of all resources.  If you don't go and scan planets your ship won't be upgraded.  If your ship isn't upgraded you lose at least three members, more if I'm forgetting something.   If you lose three members there you're more likely to lose more members, or have Shepard himself die in the end due to the way the suicide mission works.

Ergo, scanning, at least up to about 25-50k of all resources, is pretty necessary unless you hate your entire squad/character and don't want to see him/her or your squad mates in the sequel.

Unlike the mineral sidequest in ME1 where not completing it has the horrible effect of not maxing out your money QUITE as quickly--but it'll still be maxed, don't worry.

[ryder500]

:ph34r:EDIT: [I respectfully disagree with you.]

I had no problems with it, it gave me a nice break from the action and allowed me some time to think over the story and my decisions.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 11 février 2010 - 05:39 .

[krylo]

ryder500 wrote...

 I had no problems with it, it gave me a nice break from the action and allowed me some time to think over the story and my decisions.

It took you longer than the loading screens to do that?

You either have a very fast computer or a very slow mind.

[Jim_uk]

ryder500 wrote...

:ph34r:EDIT: [I respectfully disagree with you.]

I had no problems with it, it gave me a nice break from the action and allowed me some time to think over the story and my decisions.

Newsflash, you are not to only person with an opinion, you are not font of all knowledge, you are not the centre of the universe and insulting people doesn't doesn't make your opinion count more than others.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 11 février 2010 - 05:39 .

[ryder500]

I like how you made so many assumptions and pretty much just talked as if you were superior to me krylo.



I enjoy taking things slow. Oh and funny enough I may be thinking about other things as well?? Plus I only saw each loading screen for about 2 seconds as I do have a top end pc.



I enjoy reading peoples comments on this forum demanding things to be changed. More than 80 percent of the time it's some little kid who is demanding stuff to be changed whilst using the most generic arguments and hollow points. The devs will look at them and they will just see another whining kid.



Most of the people crying about the mako, scanner etc are just doing it for the sake of it, do yourself a favour and shut up.

[Jim_uk]

ryder500 wrote...

I like how you made so many assumptions and pretty much just talked as if you were superior to me krylo.

I enjoy taking things slow. Oh and funny enough I may be thinking about other things as well?? Plus I only saw each loading screen for about 2 seconds as I do have a top end pc.

I enjoy reading peoples comments on this forum demanding things to be changed. More than 80 percent of the time it's some little kid who is demanding stuff to be changed whilst using the most generic arguments and hollow points. The devs will look at them and they will just see another whining kid.

Most of the people crying about the mako, scanner etc are just doing it for the sake of it, do yourself a favour and shut up.

Now your telling people to shut up on a forum. Do you know what a forum is? do you know what the word means? here I'll help you. www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/forum

• noun (pl. forums) 1 a meeting or medium for an exchange of views.

[GODzilla]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think you're misunderstanding the concept of software patches. If a system is working as designed, we're not going to patch it. What you're asking for is to change the game, not fix it, and that is not the usual purpose of patches.

We cannot and will not customize the game for each individual who happens to like or dislike specific parts of the game, just as authors do not routinely re-write passages in their book to satisfy individuals who happen to want something changed.

not liking something is fine. Preferring something else is fine. Asking for a feature to be removed because you don't like it is selfish and unreasonable. There are thousands upon thousands of other players out there, each with his own opinions and preferences. You wouldn't like it if they called for us to "patch out" something you enjoyed, would you?

Suggestion: Erase all topics, add a new one, insert the above quote, post it, make it read-only then make the whole forum read-only.

Everything one needs to know and understand is in that post!

[ryder500]

You are an idiot and a hypocrite. You tell me that everyone is entitled to their opinion and then you bash me for stating mine? hurrr durrrr



hook line and sinker

[Naughty Bear]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think you're misunderstanding the concept of software patches. If a system is working as designed, we're not going to patch it. What you're asking for is to change the game, not fix it, and that is not the usual purpose of patches.

We cannot and will not customize the game for each individual who happens to like or dislike specific parts of the game, just as authors do not routinely re-write passages in their book to satisfy individuals who happen to want something changed.

not liking something is fine. Preferring something else is fine. Asking for a feature to be removed because you don't like it is selfish and unreasonable. There are thousands upon thousands of other players out there, each with his own opinions and preferences. You wouldn't like it if they called for us to "patch out" something you enjoyed, would you?

Woah! Wait! Someone enjoy's scanning? What is this madness?!

[Jim_uk]

ryder500 wrote...

You are an idiot and a hypocrite. You tell me that everyone is entitled to their opinion and then you bash me for stating mine? hurrr durrrr

hook line and sinker

Where did I bash your opinion? I commented on your inabilty to put it across without insulting people and telling them to shut up.

[ryder500]

I like how you have to keep trying to justify yourself.



Again, hook line and sinker.

[orpheus333]

Patch out shephard. His stubble makes my eyes hurt.

[Jim_uk]

ryder500 wrote...

I like how you have to keep trying to justify yourself.

Again, hook line and sinker.

If it makes you happy I won't reply to you again so you can have the last word and feel better about yourself, do try and do it without name calling.

[krylo]

ryder500 wrote...

I like how you made so many assumptions and pretty much just talked as if you were superior to me krylo.

I talked as if I were superior because I am.

I don't call people gay, faeries, or children for not liking a portion of the game that I enjoy.

I don't go on to further call them idiots and tell them to shut up.

I further don't use lines such as 'hook line and sinker', not to mention that I use proper grammar and spelling most of the time.

All evidence says I'm morally, ethically, and intellectually superior to you, thus I have no problem acting it.

Now, if you feel like perhaps stating your opinion like an adult, and perhaps punctuating a sentence or two, perhaps I will speak with you as though you were an equal.

[Rocketman970]

krylo wrote...

ryder500 wrote...

I like how you made so many assumptions and pretty much just talked as if you were superior to me krylo.

I talked as if I were superior because I am.

I don't call people gay, faeries, or children for not liking a portion of the game that I enjoy.

I don't go on to further call them idiots and tell them to shut up.

I further don't use lines such as 'hook line and sinker', not to mention that I use proper grammar and spelling most of the time.

All evidence says I'm morally, ethically, and intellectually superior to you, thus I have no problem acting it.

Now, if you feel like perhaps stating your opinion like an adult, and perhaps punctuating a sentence or two, perhaps I will speak with you as though you were an equal.

Hook, line, and sinker!!

[Grey_Spectre]

I always got the impression that scanning was supposed to be a little tedious. The reason is that it affects the ending (I won't say how). You don't have to do it. You can decide to be meticulous and scan and you get something for it. Or you can say 'screw it' and go ahead anyway; just be prepared to accept the consequences.



If scanning was quick and simple there would be no reason not to collect practically every resource in the galaxy and upgrade everything you have - which would make the ending less interesting. I agree that no gameplay mechanic should actually cause *physical pain* but I don't believe scanning does...

[krisj451]

Planet scanning is WONDERFUL! I love it!



"not liking something is fine. Preferring something else is fine. Asking for a feature to be removed because you don't like it is selfish and unreasonable. There are thousands upon thousands of other players out there, each with his own opinions and preferences. You wouldn't like it if they called for us to "patch out" something you enjoyed, would you?"



Yah! What Stan said! Self-centered, self-entitled, shallow & fickle - that's what you are OP.

[IggyD]

you don't actually have to spend so much time acquiring the resources for the critical upgrades. Thing is, there isn't much actual incentive to mine the rest in the galaxy.

Modifié par IggyD, 11 février 2010 - 12:54 .

[durasteel]

GODzilla_GSPB wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think you're misunderstanding the concept of software patches. If a system is working as designed, we're not going to patch it. What you're asking for is to change the game, not fix it, and that is not the usual purpose of patches.

We cannot and will not customize the game for each individual who happens to like or dislike specific parts of the game, just as authors do not routinely re-write passages in their book to satisfy individuals who happen to want something changed.

not liking something is fine. Preferring something else is fine. Asking for a feature to be removed because you don't like it is selfish and unreasonable. There are thousands upon thousands of other players out there, each with his own opinions and preferences. You wouldn't like it if they called for us to "patch out" something you enjoyed, would you?

Suggestion: Erase all topics, add a new one, insert the above quote, post it, make it read-only then make the whole forum read-only.

Everything one needs to know and understand is in that post!

It is interesting that you would suggest that the only thing the community needs to know is that their opinions don't matter.  In many game developer's forum communities, that is actually true (thinking of LucasArts,) but the funny thing here is that BioWare has a habit of telling people that it is disregarding their feedback while, at the same time, working to act on that feedback and give the players what they want.

This quote by Stanly Woo might actually contain a hidden promise of a future remedy, considering that historically, a very snarky "no" (from BioWare) is actually a "yes."  We'll see.

Modifié par durasteel, 11 février 2010 - 01:07 .

[krylo]

Grey_Spectre wrote...

I always got the impression that scanning was supposed to be a little tedious. The reason is that it affects the ending (I won't say how). You don't have to do it. You can decide to be meticulous and scan and you get something for it. Or you can say 'screw it' and go ahead anyway; just be prepared to accept the consequences.

If scanning was quick and simple there would be no reason not to collect practically every resource in the galaxy and upgrade everything you have - which would make the ending less interesting. I agree that no gameplay mechanic should actually cause *physical pain* but I don't believe scanning does...

I'm of the opinion that games are supposed to be fun, and therefore anything that is designed to be tedious on purpose is bad game design.

It doesn't have to be simple, but it should be entertaining.  Even a silly minigame like the current hacking/bypassing would be better.  It doesn't even have to be faster.  Just entertaining on SOME level.

[durasteel]

Grey_Spectre wrote...

I always got the impression that scanning was supposed to be a little tedious. [snip]  I agree that no gameplay mechanic should actually cause *physical pain* but I don't believe scanning does...

This is an entertainment product, and I rely on it (and other games) to distract me from The Real World.  The clearest indication to me that scanning for minerals is a game mechanic that needs improvement is that while scanning for minerals, I talk on the phone or watch the news in order that The Real World might distract me from this tedious aspect of the game.

I understand the value of timesinks in an MMO, where a player's ability to tolerate tedium and willingness to delay character progression to focus on a trade skill can ultimately provide a competitive advantage.  I do not see any point, however, to having a time sink in a single player game.

There is supposed to be a sense of urgency to Shepard's mission - hurry up and save the human race.  There is also a sense of urgency to each of the team members' loyalty missions.  It is difficult to maintain a sense of urgency while slowly and methodically rubbing a giant beach ball in space.

[Grey_Spectre]

krylo wrote...

Grey_Spectre wrote...

I always got the impression that scanning was supposed to be a little tedious. The reason is that it affects the ending (I won't say how). You don't have to do it. You can decide to be meticulous and scan and you get something for it. Or you can say 'screw it' and go ahead anyway; just be prepared to accept the consequences.

If scanning was quick and simple there would be no reason not to collect practically every resource in the galaxy and upgrade everything you have - which would make the ending less interesting. I agree that no gameplay mechanic should actually cause *physical pain* but I don't believe scanning does...

I'm of the opinion that games are supposed to be fun, and therefore anything that is designed to be tedious on purpose is bad game design.

It doesn't have to be simple, but it should be entertaining.  Even a silly minigame like the current hacking/bypassing would be better.  It doesn't even have to be faster.  Just entertaining on SOME level.

I'd agree with that. But scanning wasn't watching-paint-dry-i'm-going-to-shoot-myself tedious. That would have been awful game design. A little tedious can be okay if justified.

Put it this way. When I played it, I was a little obsessed about getting every upgrade I could before hitting Omega 4. Then I watched my flatmate play through it. She scanned a handful of planets and then couldn't be bothered with the really expensive ship upgrades. Her jaw was on the floor before she'd even landed on the final mission area and I couldn't stop laughing.

In that regard, I'd welcome an intention to be slightly (slightly!) tedious. Different mindsets, different approaches to the gameplay, different Shepards, different endings. I don't see anything wrong with that, to be honest. I think the point is that I enjoyed the fact that there was a little something about preparing your ship and your crew that could put some players off slightly.

But I agree that there ought not to be any intention to include a ridiculously tedious aspect of gameplay - and this would be especially true for unavoidable parts of the game.

Modifié par Grey_Spectre, 11 février 2010 - 01:19 .

[LoweGear]

... I think I'm one of the few who actually like the scanning mechanic. Hitting a big mineral spike on the oscilloscope gives me a strange sense of joy I can't explain.

However, the reason I don't like scanning anymore than I should is simple: the need to hold down the right click button to initiate the scanning. This forces a player's fingers to stay stretched and rigid for an extended period of time, and with the way you need to move your mouse with the same hand to scan it becomes very painful very quickly. This isn't a problem for the XBox360 due to the way the controllers work, with one hand on the joystick and another one on a button.

IMHO, the best way to remedy the pain initiated with scanning for PC (and if can be, for the 360) is simple: have the scanning activated as a toggle. My suggestion is that once you're in scanning mode, you only need to press the right mouse button once to activate the scanner, which will keep it on until you press it again, which will deactivate it. Given that most players who perform the scan hold their fingers on the right mouse button when scanning anyway, and that the actual challenge of scanning is in finding the location of the anomalies/resources and not in the button pressing, a toggle would ease player's pain when scanning. All they need to do ismove the mouse to search and press the left mouse button to launch probes, all without the pain of holding the right mouse button.

Modifié par LoweGear, 11 février 2010 - 01:26 .

[ryder500]

Whatever happens there will always be kids who can do nothing but whine. There really is no point trying to put out arguments and points to prove a point. Whatever you do to justify it they will always whine.



Thanks for the laugh krylo, if only I had known trolling was this easy on these forums.

[TheConfidenceMan]

Well "whining" is the only way to let them know what people don't like, so get used to it or find another forum to frequent.