348 réponses à ce sujet

[Sphynx118]

Lmaoboat wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

Yes suuure. Because jack wouldnt attack them because she thought they were all against her when she banged on the mirror glass from her cell trying to get attention? You really think the kids would stay and attack jack while being chased be a murdering squad of guards? Their only chance to escape this hell hole. Use logic man.

You sound like one of those people who thinks Legion is actually out to betray you. Why would she lie to you about what happened? She's the last character to care about what people think of her actions. You really think Bioware is trying to trick you into beliving her side of the story, and that you're the only one who saw through their clever ruse?

Have you even done her loyalty quest dude? It proves she keeps remembering things wrong. She insane. SHe makes up random reasons for killing people. She isnt lying about it she just believes that it happened when later its proven not to. Do the quest if you havent. Then talk about her credability. Again the kids attacking her makes no logic sense whatsoever. So im gonna go with her killing them thinking they were after her when they really werent

[Sassymcgee]

AM50 wrote...

Dude. She wants to rape your brain. That's all she cares about. She is in it for the rape.

She sounds so dreamy.

[newcomplex]

AM50 wrote...

Dude. She wants to rape your brain. That's all she cares about. She is in it for the rape.

Touche.

But what is "rape"?    I mean, from the perspective of a rapist, what compels them to rape.    Domination.    Their is really no other incentive for rape.     One does not "rape" (in the violent sense, not anything like statuory rape) for sex.

What does Morinth desire?   

[Lmaoboat]

Sphynx118 wrote...

Lmaoboat wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

Yes suuure. Because jack wouldnt attack them because she thought they were all against her when she banged on the mirror glass from her cell trying to get attention? You really think the kids would stay and attack jack while being chased be a murdering squad of guards? Their only chance to escape this hell hole. Use logic man.

You sound like one of those people who thinks Legion is actually out to betray you. Why would she lie to you about what happened? She's the last character to care about what people think of her actions. You really think Bioware is trying to trick you into beliving her side of the story, and that you're the only one who saw through their clever ruse?

Have you even done her loyalty quest dude? It proves she keeps remembering things wrong. She insane. SHe makes up random reasons for killing people. She isnt lying about it she just believes that it happened when later its proven not to. Do the quest if you havent. Then talk about her credability. Again the kids attacking her makes no logic sense whatsoever. So im gonna go with her killing them thinking they were after her when they really werent

There's a huge difference between lying to you and lying to herself. What she believed happened is more important to her character than what did happen.

[IceColdFulcrum]

Lmaoboat wrote...

IceColdFulcrum wrote...

QFT

Jack gives you some sob story (okay she was seriously abused as a child) of how everyone hated her and she survived only because she was strong.  But as you come to realize, the other children suffered far worse than she did because Jack was not expendable but the other kids were.  But she is so self-deluded that the obvious truth of her past goes right over her shaved head.

Morinith on the otherhand is careful and deliberate about who she kills.  She understands with perfect clarity what she is and what she is doing.


Both are killers, but if I had to hope that one could reform and join the crew in a productive manner, it would be Morinth.

That doesn't make any sense. The fact that she knows what she's doing and isn't deluded means that there's no chance to "reform" her because she has no problem with what she's doing.

Jack is disconnected from reality in a very real and dangerous way, she is utterly unpredictable and insane.

Morinith can understand that the Reapers are going to put an end to all life in the Galaxy and that includes her.  At worst she can function normally in a crew if she is given shore time from time to time to pursue a victim.  There is hope that she can embrace celabacy and stop doing what she is doing.

[Internet Kraken]

Sphynx118 wrote...

Morinth herself admitts feeling lonely alot.

And she's probably lying just to make you feel sorry for her. She is a master of manipulation. How could somebody that gets high off of killing people feel lonely? It's made clear that she loves what she has become. She just wants to lower Shepard's guard so she can fry his brain.

Imagine never being able to get close to someone because it would kill them.

That would suck. Kind of what I thought of Tali, at least before they introduced that plot-convient miracle medicine. Isolated by a condition you were born with. I would probably be pretty depressed, but I wouldn't start killing people like Morinth.

Imagine being forced to choose betwen prison or execution for a crime as simple as being born. Honestly ppl. If you were in her shoes would you not have chosen freedom?

I would have chosen a comfortable life in isolation. I'd rather not be hunted down by a Justicar. But I can understand her wanting to run. But I can't tolerate her killing people for kicks.

Minus the killing ofc but still. I sure would

You act like her killing people for 300 years is a minor detail that you can just glance over.

Modifié par Internet Kraken, 11 février 2010 - 01:41 .

[Sphynx118]

Internet Kraken wrote...

You guys do realize that saying Jack is a despicable character does not make Morinth any better?

The game constantly points out just how vile Morinth is. There is nothing likable about her. Even I thought she had sex appeal I wouldn't consider that to be a good quality, as she tries to kill you with it.

And while she is addicted to killing, that doesn't make her sympathetic. Keep in mind that her 2 sisters are living comfortable lives in isolation. Ardat Yakshi do not start out addicted. They have to kill some one first. Morinth willingly chose to become what she is.

Where exactly is it stated that her sisters live comfortable lives? It isnt stated? oh ok. For all we know it could be isolation. And she wouldnt know that she was an ardat-yakshi before accidentally killing someone.

[Lmaoboat]

IceColdFulcrum wrote...

Lmaoboat wrote...

IceColdFulcrum wrote...

QFT

Jack gives you some sob story (okay she was seriously abused as a child) of how everyone hated her and she survived only because she was strong.  But as you come to realize, the other children suffered far worse than she did because Jack was not expendable but the other kids were.  But she is so self-deluded that the obvious truth of her past goes right over her shaved head.

Morinith on the otherhand is careful and deliberate about who she kills.  She understands with perfect clarity what she is and what she is doing.


Both are killers, but if I had to hope that one could reform and join the crew in a productive manner, it would be Morinth.

That doesn't make any sense. The fact that she knows what she's doing and isn't deluded means that there's no chance to "reform" her because she has no problem with what she's doing.

Jack is disconnected from reality in a very real and dangerous way, she is utterly unpredictable and insane.

Morinith can understand that the Reapers are going to put an end to all life in the Galaxy and that includes her.  At worst she can function normally in a crew if she is given shore time from time to time to pursue a victim.  There is hope that she can embrace celabacy and stop doing what she is doing.

Insane people can be cured, but if she had no problem with what she's doing, she has no reason to stop.

Modifié par Lmaoboat, 11 février 2010 - 01:40 .

[newcomplex]

Lmaoboat wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

Yes suuure. Because jack wouldnt attack them because she thought they were all against her when she banged on the mirror glass from her cell trying to get attention? You really think the kids would stay and attack jack while being chased be a murdering squad of guards? Their only chance to escape this hell hole. Use logic man.

You sound like one of those people who thinks Legion is actually out to betray you. Why would she lie to you about what happened? She's the last character to care about what people think of her actions. You really think Bioware is trying to trick you into beliving her side of the story, and that you're the only one who saw through their clever ruse?

Legion out to betray me is actually one of the most plausible possibilities logically and casually, I just know from Bioware previous writing, and their fetish for robots and sentient mechanisms that he won't.

Think about it. He gives zero evidence of his credibility, ever single geth you've met trys to kill you. He can easily be a agent of the Reapers, and his loyalty mission could in fact be a ploy to kill the last remaining geth that are still not in the Reapers control.

defenestrated wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

defenestrated
wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

Not saying I don't agree,
but you really don't know that.

Sure, but we also don't know
that Kaidan isn't secretly Wuffles, Destroyer of Worlds. She's
fascinating but everything in the game points to Morinth as an
unrepentant predator.

Theirs no suggestion she isn't willing
to change. I would imagine she would stop killing for fun if someone
cured her of her condition. She wants love. She can't have
love.

Where is the suggestion that she is willing to
change? I'm not going the apologist route for Morinth until she gets a
scene where she's remorseful and Shepard has no chance of ending up
dead.

Loving her with the vain hope she will change
is what its all about [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie].    Maybe one day the bioware will let us change her, be able to love her, without intercourse?   Maybe she'll cause my shep to die in M3?    Who knows.    

Modifié par newcomplex, 11 février 2010 - 02:45 .

[newcomplex]

Internet Kraken wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

Morinth herself admitts feeling lonely alot.

And she's probably lying just to make you feel sorry for her. She is a master of manipulation. How could somebody that gets high off of killing people feel lonely? It's made clear that she loves what she has become. She just wants to lower Shepard's guard so she can fry his brain.

Imagine never being able to get close to someone because it would kill them.

That would suck. Kind of what I thought of Tali, at least before they introduced that plot-convient miracle medicine. Isolated by a condition you were born with. I would probably be pretty depressed, but I wouldn't start killing people like Morinth.

Imagine being forced to choose betwen prison or execution for a crime as simple as being born. Honestly ppl. If you were in her shoes would you not have chosen freedom?

I would have chosen a comfortable life in isolation. I'd rather not be hunted down by a Justicar. But I can understand her wanting to run. But I can't tolerate her killing people for kicks.

Minus the killing ofc but still. I sure would

You act like her killing people for 300 years is a minor detail that you can just glance over.

Theirs a reason they imprison people with the condition.      Wanting to love (and having sex) is a undeniable part of human (and presumable Asari) sentience.      She didn't start out as a serial killer, just as rapists aren't born rapists.    People rape because they felt, or continue to feel, powerless, and they want power.    She wants sex, she wants to be loved, and she can't have that, so she kills through sex (an analogue of rape)

Rapists aren't pittied because they chose to become what they are, she was born unable to love.   

Modifié par newcomplex, 11 février 2010 - 01:44 .

[Lmaoboat]

newcomplex wrote...

Lmaoboat wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

Yes suuure. Because jack wouldnt attack them because she thought they were all against her when she banged on the mirror glass from her cell trying to get attention? You really think the kids would stay and attack jack while being chased be a murdering squad of guards? Their only chance to escape this hell hole. Use logic man.

You sound like one of those people who thinks Legion is actually out to betray you. Why would she lie to you about what happened? She's the last character to care about what people think of her actions. You really think Bioware is trying to trick you into beliving her side of the story, and that you're the only one who saw through their clever ruse?

Legion out to betray me is actually one of the most plausible possibilities logically and casually, I just know from Bioware previous writing, and their fetish for robots and sentient mechanisms that he won't.

Think about it. He gives zero evidence of his credibility, ever single geth you've met trys to kill you. He can easily be a agent of the Reapers, and his loyalty mission could in fact be a ploy to kill the last remaining geth that are still not in the Reapers control.

How can you trust anyone, really? How do we know Zaeed wasn't paid by someone else to kill you? How do we know Grunt wasn't programmed to blow up the ship after a certain amount of time? How do we know Thane isn't really some anti-human terrorist just waiting for the right moment to strike?

[Internet Kraken]

Sphynx118 wrote...


Where exactly is it stated that her sisters live comfortable lives? It isnt stated? oh ok. For all we know it could be isolation. And she wouldnt know that she was an ardat-yakshi before accidentally killing someone.

We know this from Samara. She says that when the condition is discovered, the ardat yakshi are given a choice. A comfortable life in isolation or death. And before you say it, why would Samara lie about her children? She gains nothing from that.

And even if the life of isolation was horrible it wouldn't excuse what Morinth does. She didn't have to kill people. The condition is discovered before an Ardat Yakshi starts having sex, otherwise they would just kill them outright because they are already addicted.

[Exile Isan]

Sphynx118 wrote...
Where exactly is it stated that her sisters live comfortable lives? It isnt stated? oh ok. For all we know it could be isolation. And she wouldnt know that she was an ardat-yakshi before accidentally killing someone.

Samara? She tells Shepard that when an asari realizes what she is (ardat-yakshi) she is given the choice to live her life in seclusion and comfort or to be executed.

*ninja'd dang it

Modifié par Exile Isan, 11 février 2010 - 01:46 .

[Sphirax88]

I actually rather enjoy morinth as a character. She's rather deep were as samara when you try to talk to her pretty much beats you out with her walker. Granted I would have liked a few more conversation options.

[newcomplex]

Lmaoboat wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

Lmaoboat wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

Yes suuure. Because jack wouldnt attack them because she thought they were all against her when she banged on the mirror glass from her cell trying to get attention? You really think the kids would stay and attack jack while being chased be a murdering squad of guards? Their only chance to escape this hell hole. Use logic man.

You sound like one of those people who thinks Legion is actually out to betray you. Why would she lie to you about what happened? She's the last character to care about what people think of her actions. You really think Bioware is trying to trick you into beliving her side of the story, and that you're the only one who saw through their clever ruse?

Legion out to betray me is actually one of the most plausible possibilities logically and casually, I just know from Bioware previous writing, and their fetish for robots and sentient mechanisms that he won't.

Think about it. He gives zero evidence of his credibility, ever single geth you've met trys to kill you. He can easily be a agent of the Reapers, and his loyalty mission could in fact be a ploy to kill the last remaining geth that are still not in the Reapers control.

How can you trust anyone, really? How do we know Zaeed wasn't paid by someone else to kill you? How do we know Grunt wasn't programmed to blow up the ship after a certain amount of time? How do we know Thane isn't really some anti-human terrorist just waiting for the right moment to strike?

Because it would be inconvient for Bioware writers to do so.    On a less meta level, cerebrus did an intensive study on each and every member they have you recruit.    They know that Zaeed, the best merc in the galaxy, isn't going to betray you any more then Miranda will, or they wouldn't have gotten him.    Grunts been educated by the warlord, who has also been studied.

The only unnkown factor here is Legion.

Hey, your ship gets attacked out of nowhere right after you get legion.    

[Lmaoboat]

newcomplex wrote...


Rapists aren't pittied because they chose to become what they are, she was born unable to love.   

Rapists, either by birth or enviromental happenstance, have an overpowering lust for domination. Both Morinth and rapists have to choose to act on it.

[Sphynx118]

Internet Kraken wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...


Where exactly is it stated that her sisters live comfortable lives? It isnt stated? oh ok. For all we know it could be isolation. And she wouldnt know that she was an ardat-yakshi before accidentally killing someone.

We know this from Samara. She says that when the condition is discovered, the ardat yakshi are given a choice. A comfortable life in isolation or death. And before you say it, why would Samara lie about her children? She gains nothing from that.

And even if the life of isolation was horrible it wouldn't excuse what Morinth does. She didn't have to kill people. The condition is discovered before an Ardat Yakshi starts having sex, otherwise they would just kill them outright because they are already addicted.

Isolation and comfortable is like saying "im making a fire under water". It sounds cool but it doesnt work well together. And how exactly is the condition discovered early? You think every asari tests herself regularly for the "ardat-yakshi"? One of Samaras daughters killed someone and then samara took the test. Who knows. Maybe morinth was the one

[IceColdFulcrum]

Lmaoboat wrote...

Insane people can be cured, but if she had no problem with what she's doing, she has no reason to stop.

No, insane people can be TREATED, no former mass murder is going to ever walk out of a mental factility with the doctor's patting them on the back and saying, "That will never happen again, your completely cured."

Do you really think that Jack is going to let someone lock her away, give her drugs and counseling?  The only way to cure Jack involves a bullet embedded deep in that twisted brain of hers.


Morinith has every reason to stop if it threatens her own survival, and she has the ability to do so.

Remember, it's Jack wants to kill Miranda, and nearly does so on the ship.  Morinth sits in her room peacefully without killing or threatening to kill anyone.

[Lmaoboat]

newcomplex wrote...

Lmaoboat wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

Lmaoboat wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

Yes suuure. Because jack wouldnt attack them because she thought they were all against her when she banged on the mirror glass from her cell trying to get attention? You really think the kids would stay and attack jack while being chased be a murdering squad of guards? Their only chance to escape this hell hole. Use logic man.

You sound like one of those people who thinks Legion is actually out to betray you. Why would she lie to you about what happened? She's the last character to care about what people think of her actions. You really think Bioware is trying to trick you into beliving her side of the story, and that you're the only one who saw through their clever ruse?

Legion out to betray me is actually one of the most plausible possibilities logically and casually, I just know from Bioware previous writing, and their fetish for robots and sentient mechanisms that he won't.

Think about it. He gives zero evidence of his credibility, ever single geth you've met trys to kill you. He can easily be a agent of the Reapers, and his loyalty mission could in fact be a ploy to kill the last remaining geth that are still not in the Reapers control.

How can you trust anyone, really? How do we know Zaeed wasn't paid by someone else to kill you? How do we know Grunt wasn't programmed to blow up the ship after a certain amount of time? How do we know Thane isn't really some anti-human terrorist just waiting for the right moment to strike?

Because it would be inconvient for Bioware writers to do so.    On a less meta level, cerebrus did an intensive study on each and every member they have you recruit.    They know that Zaeed, the best merc in the galaxy, isn't going to betray you any more then Miranda will, or they wouldn't have gotten him.    Grunts been educated by the warlord, who has also been studied.

The only unnkown factor here is Legion.

Hey, your ship gets attacked out of nowhere right after you get legion.    

And it would be inconvient for Bioware to claim he was against you all along after writing countless dialouge to the contrary.

Modifié par Lmaoboat, 11 février 2010 - 01:51 .

[IceColdFulcrum]

Exile Isan wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...
Where exactly is it stated that her sisters live comfortable lives? It isnt stated? oh ok. For all we know it could be isolation. And she wouldnt know that she was an ardat-yakshi before accidentally killing someone.

Samara? She tells Shepard that when an asari realizes what she is (ardat-yakshi) she is given the choice to live her life in seclusion and comfort or to be executed.

*ninja'd dang it

How is life living isolated from other people for upwards of a 1000 years considered 'comfort'?

[Axx Bytehoven]

IMHO, Morinth can be redeemed. If she must exist in isolation, perhaps her isolation could include service in defense of the galaxy. I regret Samara had to die to recruit Morinth. I would have preferred a continuing story where Morinth could progress beyond her adolescent and rebellious youth. I guess Samara is really gone, so the story there ends, but it's unfortunate.

[HelterSkelter89]

dark blue/ purple skin, round features, pretty eyes, these are the features that make asari good looking. morinth exhibits none of these features. she is as butt ugly as her mother. together morinth and samara are the ugliest asari in the mass effect franchise. look at how huge her eyes and jawbone are! it's just awful.

[newcomplex]

Lmaoboat wrote...

newcomplex wrote...


Rapists aren't pittied because they chose to become what they are, she was born unable to love.   

Rapists, either by birth or enviromental happenstance, have an overpowering lust for domination. Both Morinth and rapists have to choose to act on it.

On a technical level, nobody has choice, your brains a big biological computer that reads input, analyzes it through past experience and emotional states, and renders an output.

Choice is a human construction.     Obviously, not everyone with an abusive father is a rapist, because we don't lock them up in monasteries.     Therefor, we use "choice" to account for that.     Asari however, make sufferers of the condition live in semi-isolation for a ****ing thousand years (which sounds like torture).    Obviously, that means they have less of a "choice", for reasons I just previously explained.

People inherently want to be loved, they want to belong.     Morinth cannot accept that, so she kills.   

Lmaoboat wrote...

]And it would be inconvient for Bioware
to claim he was against you all along after writing countless dialouge
to the contrary.

I said that already.    It was just verbatim, read into my other points

Modifié par newcomplex, 11 février 2010 - 01:57 .

[Lmaoboat]

IceColdFulcrum wrote...

Lmaoboat wrote...

Insane people can be cured, but if she had no problem with what she's doing, she has no reason to stop.

No, insane people can be TREATED, no former mass murder is going to ever walk out of a mental factility with the doctor's patting them on the back and saying, "That will never happen again, your completely cured."

Do you really think that Jack is going to let someone lock her away, give her drugs and counseling?  The only way to cure Jack involves a bullet embedded deep in that twisted brain of hers.


Morinith has every reason to stop if it threatens her own survival, and she has the ability to do so.

Remember, it's Jack wants to kill Miranda, and nearly does so on the ship.  Morinth sits in her room peacefully without killing or threatening to kill anyone.

Morinth will most likely go right back to killing after she's done with you. She knows what she's doing, and she isn't going to stop unless you followher around with a gun 24/7.

[Lmaoboat]

newcomplex wrote...


I said that already.    It was just verbatim, read into my other points

I was pointing out that the reason we trust Legion is the same reason we trust anyone else.