47 réponses à ce sujet

[Thefinalchoice]

I picked Jack in the fight........never got Miranda on my good side after that



It seems that you need a full paragon bar to fix it afterwards, but if you don't let Miranda do anything important on the suicide mission, she should be fine

[Fat Headed Wolf]

I've heard about this problem but have never encountered it myself.

In fact on my two playthroughs I did it (quelling the fight I mean) with about only 40 to 50 percent paragon filled.

Of course, I did do all sidequests on hub worlds before that time and my character is pretty black and white-ish (although he does have a bit of renegade 10 or so percent).

That may have something to do with it....... or I may be talking out of somewhere other than my mouth......

Modifié par Fat Headed Wolf, 11 février 2010 - 03:01 .

[Ahglock]

Thefinalchoice wrote...

I picked Jack in the fight........never got Miranda on my good side after that

It seems that you need a full paragon bar to fix it afterwards, but if you don't let Miranda do anything important on the suicide mission, she should be fine

For those who are worried;

POTENTIAL SPOILER:

I had heard you had to have her loyal for her to survive, it somewhat irks me that I potentially can't get an achievemnt because I don't have a playstyle where I am absolutely paragon or absolutely renegade.  Even if she can survive, I think it is bad game design to force extreme persoanlity types in order to have dialogue options in important story points.  The asari loyalty part is another example, I had virtually no dialogue options because I wasn't an absurd characture of goodness or douchbagness.  Not sure how that implies strong will either. 

SPOLIER ETC.

[Fat Headed Wolf]

Ahglock wrote...

Thefinalchoice wrote...

I picked Jack in the fight........never got Miranda on my good side after that

It seems that you need a full paragon bar to fix it afterwards, but if you don't let Miranda do anything important on the suicide mission, she should be fine

POTENTIAL SPOILER:

I had heard you had to have her loyal for her to survive, it somewhat irks me that I potentially can't get an achievemnt because I don't have a playstyle where I am absolutely paragon or absolutely renegade.  Even if she can survive, I think it is bad game design to force extreme persoanlity types in order to have dialogue options in important story points.  The asari loyalty part is another example, I had virtually no dialogue options because I wasn't an absurd characture of goodness or douchbagness.  Not sure how that implies strong will either. 

SPOLIER ETC.

Yeah we need the old system of Charm/ Intimidate back. Where you actually invest points. 

I thought that I heard that in ME2 there was going to be a skill called "Persuade" or something like that. Where you invested points into it and got Charm/Intimidate based on your higher Morality (Renegade/Paragon).

Maybe it got cut, or I could be just dead wrong.  

Modifié par Fat Headed Wolf, 11 février 2010 - 03:06 .

[Ahglock]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

I'm at the confrontation with Jack and Miranda and have run into the same problem. My Shepard is mostly paragon, but says and does a few renegade things along the way. Basically he's about 75% paragon and 25% renegade. The thing is, because I don't play as a purely black or white character, I'll end up losing two squad members in the end mission.  I don't see how there is anyway I could possibly  get enough points in paragon, with all of the loyalty missions completed, most of the N7 missions completed, and heading into the end game on the main quest.

I have to agree that it was a bad design choice to only be able to diffuse the situation if you are maxed out in one direction or the other. Players who don't play their character as saintly or flat out evil get punished by losing two squadmates. Why is there no room for middle ground?

SPOLIER:::::


Exactly my issue.  Wierdly on the Tali in my first playthrough i was much less paragon/renegade and I was fine.  Maybe because she was a LI.
SPOLIER:::

[Ahglock]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

I think Miranda would beat Jack down so hard.

Overload jack's shields and shoot her a couple times all the while jack is trying to biotic pull Miranda but can't drop her shields quick enough, then Miranda just throws a heavy warp while jack tries to shockwave. Jack just twitches on the floor as Miranda throws one extra heavy warp as jack breathes her last and final breath trying desparately to mutter ... "Cerberus cheerleader has way better biotic powers than me ...why???"

Sadly yes, for a bad ass biotic etc, jack is kind of weak sauce at biotics.  This is a big IMO. But shockwave just seems to blow, yeah it has its uses, but it doesn't seem to pan out nearly as cool as in the adept video.  And pull is just a lackluster singularity. 

[I Redbush I]

Ok thank you for having this as a topic. I played through as a Sentinel and aside from going through the Omega 4 Relay, all I had left was Jack's loyalty mission. When I finished I was completely maxed out as a Paragon. As a Sentinel I used the Guardian skill and helped increase my Paragon score. When Jack and Miranda had the fight, I was unable to use the Paragon option to settle it, so I took Miranda's side and went to talk to Jack. When I got to her, I was still unable to use the Paragon option. Any thoughts?

[Gagoff]

Is there really a need for me to add a spoiler tag now that this is a spoiler thread?

Oh well



SPOILER ::::::::::::



I had pretty high Paragon and Renegade bars, though none of them full when this happened. I still managed to resolve it peacefully. Might be related to me having my class fully upgraded since it adds to charm/intimidate.

Same with Tali



SPOILER::::::::::::::

[Erucolindo]

If you don't want to be pure paragon or pure renegade you can do that, but like very choice in this game it comes with consequences, result. You chose a path, and that path has an end you may or may not like. If choices didn't come with possible negative consequences or positive ones, they wouldn't matter. By your choices have meaning, effect. Not just for you or on you, but on your teamates, it makes for a better, more memorable experience. That's not bad game design, that's great game design. If you wanna be in the middle, then do so, but know that it will have an effect just as anything else would.


You could chose not to take heavy weapons to missions, or go with nothing but a heavy pistol for yourself. As a result, you would still finish the mission, but it may not go as smoothly. Do you then call it "bad game design" because the devs "forced" you to use better guns? You know the guns where they, you had the ability to use them, to aquire them, but you didn't. Would you say you are being "punished" for using heavy pistols? No, because you made a choice.

BTW, I had a full paragon bar for both conflicts and resolved them both. However, I have no idea how to avoid those conflicts since those are one of those things that just happen in a cutscene like some other things. So there was no way to say, "i'll deal with this later"

Modifié par Erucolindo, 11 février 2010 - 03:30 .

[Ahglock]

Holy craps even maxed you got hosed, is this a bug??

[I Redbush I]

Yea I dont know what the deal is, the bar is completely full and I couldnt use Paragon option during the fight or afterwards on the indiviuals. I'm kinda leaning towards it glitching somehow on me, but I tried again later on in the night and it still wouldnt let me do it.

[Sean]

its bugged



I had Paragon maxed and renegade about 1 1/2 bar and wasn't able to do anything, but a little earlier I could stop the Legion/Tali fight

[I Redbush I]

I was able to settle the Legion/Tali situation. I was able to use Tali's Paragon option on her loyalty mission to keep her from being exiled, and yet I couldn't fix the Jack/Miranda fight. I've done 2 playthroughs now and haven't been able to do it either time.

[Moldy Poptarts]

how much paragon do you need for legion/tali?? I got screwed on the jack/miranda fight(just under/on last bar for paragon). Im about half way into the last segment for paragon now. Please tell me im not screwed.

[I Redbush I]

If you got 4 bars on Paragon, then you should be fine on the Legion/Tali thing, if I remember right that is.

[Moldy Poptarts]

Sweet, i was kinda worried cause i just picked up legion before heading into omega 4 and didnt want to fail like with the apparently glitched miranda/jack scenario...that i still cant even fix. Thanks!!

[I Redbush I]

If I am wrong I apologize, but I'm pretty sure you should be fine with that one

[Moldy Poptarts]

i still need to do up legion's dialogue and mission(im assuming he has one and will give me some decent points, lol), so i might be able to max out paragon in that scenario anyways. i was trying to get everyone to live on my first playthrough but oh well, looks like jack may very well end up very dead.

[I Redbush I]

Yea as long as you choose the correct option during Legion's mission then you will get some good Paragon points

[Aedan_Cousland]

Erucolindo wrote...

If you don't want to be pure paragon or pure renegade you can do that, but like very choice in this game it comes with consequences, result. You chose a path, and that path has an end you may or may not like. If choices didn't come with possible negative consequences or positive ones, they wouldn't matter. By your choices have meaning, effect. Not just for you or on you, but on your teamates, it makes for a better, more memorable experience. That's not bad game design, that's great game design. If you wanna be in the middle, then do so, but know that it will have an effect just as anything else would.

Kind of pointless, but.....


::::::::SPOILERS:::::::::





That is a bad design because only characters that are somewhere in the middle lose out on options. If it was a case of say, players with a higher paragon score being able to resolve Tali/Legion and only those with a higher renegade being able to resolve Jack/Miranda, then I'd say it was a good design. When consequences aren't spread out evenly, it is oversight or bad design.

Personally I prefer how Charm/Intimidate was handled in ME1.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 11 février 2010 - 04:12 .

[Moldy Poptarts]

i like the idea of your actions increasing your Ch/In but in practice it can inhibit you. thankfully i play mostly paragon(still ended up with near 45% renegade, lol). Im pretty sure the transfer from ME1 is what saved me from needing to go pure paragon in the end.

[Erucolindo]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Erucolindo wrote...

If you don't want to be pure paragon or pure renegade you can do that, but like very choice in this game it comes with consequences, result. You chose a path, and that path has an end you may or may not like. If choices didn't come with possible negative consequences or positive ones, they wouldn't matter. By your choices have meaning, effect. Not just for you or on you, but on your teamates, it makes for a better, more memorable experience. That's not bad game design, that's great game design. If you wanna be in the middle, then do so, but know that it will have an effect just as anything else would.

Kind of pointless, but.....


::::::::SPOILERS:::::::::





That is a bad design because only characters that are somewhere in the middle lose out on options. If it was a case of say, players with a higher paragon score being able to resolve Tali/Legion and only those with a higher renegade being able to resolve Jack/Miranda, then I'd say it was a good design. When consequences aren't spread out evenly, it is oversight or bad design.

Personally I prefer how Charm/Intimidate was handled in ME1.

What I'm trying to say, but maybe i'm not getting across in the best way, is that you chose to be neutral. Perhaps i should instead say that you chose to make a character who didn't want to bother persuading or intimidating people to get them to do as you liked. As a result of that choice, you can't settle this arguements without losing someone. This leads to you having a different playthrough experience and a different ending then someone like me who went all paragon and was able to settle those things easily and without loss.

There are plenty of situations i think where you "lose out" because you are a paragon or a renegade though. I would argue, for instance, that the coolest conversation options in the game are the renegade interrupts, yet a paragon is denied those things because they would give him renegade points. There are others, but I don't want to invite spoilers.

Really though, are you being punished that badly. You are basically being asked to chose sides, and it's a hard choice. it's supposed to be a hard choice, all that paragon or renegade do is give you the option of not having to make the choice.

All i'm saying is that's it shouldn't be called "bad game design" because there is the potential to have to make a hard choice.