107 réponses à ce sujet

[mjboldy]

I agree. Being a biotic just seems pointless. By the time you got rid of the barrier and or armor and got to the health bar it just became useless. By the time you got the wheel open the enemy's health is about 3/4 to 1/2 the way full. If you're using a biotic like shockwave, by the time the biotic reaches the enemy, he's either already dead or just about dead and then the biotic finishes him off (even though just simply shooting him would have been faster). I don't even see why this is even the result of balancing. It would be balanced if biotics could use their powers on armor or barriers but it just seems like all they did was weaken them.

[Bloody Hun]

How about biotics working against armor but remain uneffected against shields. It meets in the middle for both ways. They'll be more effective, but not overpowered.

[Frotality]

biotics are a hard thing to balance, tis true; ME2 went in the opposite extreme of the spectrum. they reworked warp to try and make it more useful to compensate, but the end result is that on higher difficulties spamming warp is an adepts only semi-viable means of offense. hardcore and up is really unfair against biotic for some reason; defenses are supposed to make enemies resistant, not immune; doing that with higher difficulties is a rather underhanded way to make it harder.

[TheConfidenceMan]

You can turn off biotic resistance in the PC version. It's fun to play but clearly unbalanced since they changed the power/cooldown system to favor spamming instead of tactics.

[rumination888]

Your first point has merit. No matter how good you are, you still won't be lifting shielded enemies into the air.
Your second point can go either way. I don't agree, but I do understand wanting to make it more useful since its worthless during the plot missions.
Your third point is completely wrong. You can literally spam Charge and survive on Insanity without needing Barrier.

[Soruyao]

1) At the Hardcore and Insanity difficulties the main problem is that certain powers are disabled against certain "barriers". That's just silly BioWare! The easiest fix to this problems is to remove the disability. It keeps the powers balanced but doesn't  "gimp" certain classes. It also doesn't help that during load screens there is a line that says something like "All powers can do damage to shields, armor, and barriers." When in fact you disable that at the higher difficulties where players who have beaten the game go to challenge themselves but still have fun. Some players ONLY play the hard difficulties... why deny them the fun that other players enjoy at lower, less challenging, difficulties? Easy fix. Remove the disability.

The problem is that since adepts can lock people down as easily as they can, and because they can easily chain instant-kills in most areas.   In ME1, the game did not get harder for as difficulty levels went up. (Besides being oneshotted by snipers and rockets.)   It just got slower.   The difference between hardcore and insanity was in how long it took for you to finish off the immunity'd krogan that was helplessly floating above you.

In ME2, the difficulty actually does increase as the difficulty modes come up.  If you want to remove that mechanic, you need to come up with some other way to challenge the class, or insanity mode stops being a challenge entirely.

2) Overload doesn't work against nonsynthetic enemies with a red health bar. They still have weapons and you should still have the opportunity to overheat those since that IS a main statistic of the power that is displayed in the skill tree. Come on BioWare... since when in any RPGish game could you not cast Shock on someone to some sort of advantage? Easy fix. Remove the disability.

I didn't know this =o I agree that this is a problem if it is true, and I support fixing it.   This isn't a biotic though so I'm not sure if it fits the topic title very well.

3) Vanguards do not start with Barrier. This causes a serious balance issue with that class in higher difficulties since you can't actually use the "Vanguard Charge" without immediately dieing. Combine that with already subpar Biotics, and "up close" effective weapons and you have the worst class in the game. Seriously I am not even sure if just Barrier could help the class at higher difficulties. There may need to be an overhaul on the class but... Easy fix at this point... start the class with Barrier in addition to the rest of the skills. Start small would be the best hope in keeping a decent class balance.

Sinosleep has posted numerous videos of a vanguard without barrier charging around all over the place shotgunning people without dying.  Look him up on youtube, he has the same user name there.   It is very doable, and barrier is not required at all.   Is it hard?  Sure.  Should insanity be hard?

Vanguards and adepts are the only class that actually are challenging on insanity.  Every class should be challenging on insanity.  My suggestion then is to nerf the other classes rather than removing the restrictions.

-edit-

Frotality wrote...

biotics are a hard thing to balance,
tis true; ME2 went in the opposite extreme of the spectrum. they
reworked warp to try and make it more useful to compensate, but the end
result is that on higher difficulties spamming warp is an adepts only
semi-viable means of offense. hardcore and up is really unfair against
biotic for some reason; defenses are supposed to make enemies
resistant, not immune; doing that with higher difficulties is a rather
underhanded way to make it harder.

The bolded part is completely untrue.  There are builds that completely ignore warp (except for on bosses) which are perfectly viable.   I used to say : "Just use squad powers."   But then I tried a team with no defense removing squad powers and I pew pewed my way through a few missions.   

Here, have a video :    .   

Sure, I died at the end, but it wasn't because my biotics weren't working, it's because I failed at using cover.  I went through the rest of the mission at a decent pace.   Could I have gone faster if I were another class?  Maybe??  But I think it was definitely fast enough to make it worth jamming someone in the ceiling.

Modifié par Soruyao, 11 février 2010 - 04:08 .

[Ahglock]

Frequently my biotic seem to burn out quick a lift that lasts 3 seconds even though its maxed, singularities that disappear quick etc. I am not sure if it is a bug or biotic resistance, boss, krogan, whatever resistance. But having shields do that would have worked, if my hold on a pull drops to 3 seconds when the shield is up it is still useful but no more so than a sniper rifle.



Side note at the get your bonus weapon talent stage, I wish one of the options had been a fancy biotic amp or a fancy omni tool for the biotic and tech classes. Those with the right weapon skill got fancy pants versions of there weapon like the totally broken widow.



If the fancy pants biotic amp let you partially ignore shields that would be cool IMO, and I'd take it over a different weapon. I want to be better with my adept powers, I don't really care about having a good gun.

[Roxlimn]

XxTaLoNxX:



I have one play experience with an Adept on Hardcore. I specced and respecced her multiple times and tried to use the various powers (excepting Shockwave) as best I could. I respecced her so I could reload a save and then try out a different configuration.



While it is true that Pull, Throw, and Shockwave have limited effects on enemies that still have defenses, it's not true that you can't use them at all, nor is it true that you can only make use of Warp.



At lower character levels, you can use squadmates who have Overload, take Energy Drain, or upgrade Submachine Gun to deal with Shields. Anything else you can take down. Up to about level 10, you need two applications of a power to remove defenses. At about level 14 or so, you need one, and you can even use Area effects to strip the defenses on an entire platoon en masse without expending too much time on it.



Certain targets have more Defenses than Health. These comprise the minority of your enemies, usually bosses, elites, heavy mechs - that sort of thing. Nearly all your enemies will have comparable Health and Defense at hardcore, and quite a few will have significantly more Health than Defenses. Husks and Vorcha most obviously have more. All you need to do to test this out is load a game on hardcore, and then take a few shots at a Vorcha. I guarantee you will bring that Armor down really fast. Takes longer to remove the Health.



Warp Explosion is the singlemost powerful AoE effect in the game - better than Area Reave. Whether you choose to go damage with Heavy Warp Explosion or area with Unstable Warp Explosion, this effect is phenomenally powerful. The Adept is the only class that can deploy it without sacrificing team composition.



You can use Singularity or Pull to set up the WE. Singularity has the advantage of locking down the enemy while you whittle down its defenses, but it has longer cooldown and the curving and speed of deployment isn't as good as Pull. Also, only the Adept has Sing, so you can't ask your mates to Sing for you. It can also be hard to tell exactly if the target still has defenses, whereas you can't aim Pull until the defenses are stripped for sure.



Warp Explosion (as far as I can tell) applies the Warp damage to every target within 5 meters, regardless of their defenses. You can acquire this powerful tool very early - easily before level 10. If upgrade to Heavy Warp, it really does a number on enemies, damaging them and throwing them about. Unstable Warp does less damage, but it's far easier to catch a lot of enemies in the blast since the radius is an absolutely ridiculous 7 m - twice the radius of Incineration Blast.



The fun part about it is that the effects cascade. Once you take down one guy's defenses and Pull-Warp him, you will usually strip some other guy's defenses and then you can Pull-Warp him, too. It makes things go really fast. I suggest trying it out for yourself.



More importantly, part of what makes Insanity and Hardcore more difficult is that you take more damage from incoming fire. For this reason, the effect of both Pull and Throw are correspondingly more powerful on higher difficulty levels than at lower ones. You can see this clearly once you know how to deploy your biotics at the higher levels.



AoE defense stripping followed by Throw Field and Sing plus the occasional Pull Field from an ally pretty much locks down entire encounters. Being able to use Throw Field to just off people instantly is too strong to allow to work unimpeded on the higher difficulty levels. It's barely held in check by that, even.

[SurfaceBeneath]

I think Biotics are pretty balanced on Insanity.



Headshots with a sniper rifle and unbalanced and should probably be toned down.

[Deception_2112]

It was because of this i edited my Adept to have Barrier, Reave, Dominate, Slam and Energy Drain..



Worked quite well, but really some of the biotic powers are useless, whats the point of pulling or pushing someone when they can only be thrown when their armor/shields are gone? It's much faster to just shoot them

[Roxlimn]

Deception_2112:



The point is that you stop the gunfire as soon as the power hits. Also, they remove enemy cover by throwing or Pulling them out of cover when they're in it.



Pull and Throw animation has maybe half a second before it hits on the far side of a room - on near enemies, it's nearly as fast as actual gunfire. So please, relate. How long does it take to completely take down the entire Health of a krogan or merc on Hardcore? I've been playing Hardcore, and without an Ammo power (or a borrowed one) it takes quite a while. Certainly, it takes significantly longer than the power takes to hit. With Tungsten Ammo, you can whittle down an enemy out of cover in maybe a second and a half, provided you hit most of your shots. It's longer for elites, of course. With Pull, you can neutralize one enemy, then take out another, removing gunfire from two enemies at once.



I've used that tactic a lot and it's not useless. With gunfire taking down Vanguards and Pulls taking out normal mercs, I can cut enemy fire by half almost instantly (especially once you acquire Area Overload or Area Energy Drain). Then Warp the Pulled targets for the Warp Explosion.



I can provide detailed instructions on how to use Throw and Pull to profit in the missions where they'd really show great effect.

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Another topic to spend hours writing the same argument hundreds of times. There will always be few people satisfied with new gimped biotics like if it was justified to nerf them. Roxlimn before you say it would be overpowered to allow biotics work on shielded enemies, please mod the game and try it.

Modifié par Flash_in_the_flesh, 11 février 2010 - 03:03 .

[nader911t]

wow, no one from BW cares to comment on these very good points!!

[OriginalDiSarray]

I believe the cool down could be reduced. I'm currently playing on Insanity and once and a while i get flanked by enemies which i could have stopped with a power. This is strongly evident when versing Scions.

[Roxlimn]

Flash_in_the_Flesh:



Of course. I've just finished my Adept and Soldier playthroughs on Hardcore. I think I'm ready to start tinkering with it now that I have a baseline.

[CubemonkeyNYC]

Definition of "Insanity":



"Extreme foolishness; folly.



Something that is extremely foolish." - Dictionary.com



OP's points have been addressed by Bioware. Powers are working as intended. They will never be changed by Bioware.



The game is balanced around normal difficulty. End of story. Insanity requires specific tactics with every class. With infil, it's cloak/headshot ad nauseum. With vanguard, it's charge/headshot ad nauseum. I've sat with a friend playing vanguard on insanity. It works. You have to be extremely aggressive. If you can't get it to work, you're doing it wrong. It's not supposed to be hard, it's supposed to be "insane" (see above).



I've played an adept on normal, an infiltrator on hardcore, and an adept on insanity. I my adept.

[CubemonkeyNYC]

OriginalDiSarray wrote...

I believe the cool down could be reduced. I'm currently playing on Insanity and once and a while i get flanked by enemies which i could have stopped with a power. This is strongly evident when versing Scions.

If you get flanked by Scions, the slowest moving enemies in the game, you are just bad at the game.

[Laterali]

They honestly didn't think it over that well. I remember seeing the Adapt Video, and Christina Norman said something like the only class that can take down an enemy without firing a shot...yeah, on casual.



Since warp is the only biotic useful against Barriers and Armor, I spend most of the time spamming Warp and shooting, and by the time it gets down to just health, you might as well keep shooting. Cause it only take a couple shots to finish them off.

[Roxlimn]

Laterali:



Actually, I JUST finished an Adept run on Hardcore earlier today. For some of those battles, I wasn't even reloading. The video actually said, "the best class at taking down enemies without firing a shot," or something to that effect.



And it's true. I'm playing Sentinel, Adept, Soldier, and Infiltrator concurrently on Hardcore and I've had to fire the LEAST on Adept. Warp is crap at taking down Health by itself - it simply doesn't do nearly enough damage on its own. You could supplement that with gunfire, but with Adept getting only basic guns, it's not like that's all that good, either, if you have to duck into cover half the time.



Best, and most universally useful is using Warp Explosion - use Pull or Singularity first on an undefended enemy, then apply Warp to that enemy. On Hardcore, that enemy will then usually be dead, and he'll trigger a 5 meter explosion, dealing Warp damage to all in the area and throwing them down, regardless of defenses.



Don't spam Warp. Use your other powers. Your game will go faster, and you'll have more fun.

[Laterali]

That doesn't work on Insanity, since almost every enemy is armored or has a barrier, and warp explosion is still warp. I'd love to use all the powers, but like I said, warp is the only useful one, and once armor is gone and it's down to health, you might as well just continue to shoot.

[Roxlimn]

Laterali:



No dude. Don't argue. Listen.



Warp Explosion isn't just Warp. It applies Warp damage to every target in a 5 meter radius regardless of defenses. It's not just Warp. It is the most powerful damage AoE in the game. Area Reave is crap in comparison.



You cannot apply Warp Explosion unless you have a biotic power active on an undefended target. THAT is why you Pull a target that doesn't have defenses - so you can Warp it and trigger the AoE. And no, it's not better or faster to shoot it, unless you're shooting with a grenade launcher.



Don't argue. Boot up your game NOW and try it out. Once the armor or shield is gone, curve a Pull around cover, then trigger the Warp Explosion. If, after extensive use, you still think that applying 200 damage to a 5 meter radius is worse than shooting individual targets one at a time, then I won't push this point further.