107 réponses à ce sujet

[Kroniker81]

1.) I do not give a damn about normal difficulty. It's already too easy on Veteran.

2.) This game main strenght is story and story telling so this is a valid argument. You claiming it is a straw man argument just proves how weak your own are actually.

3.) It's bad game design to improve difficulty in the way to prohibit the use of powers and significantly reducing the class feel.

4.) Try playing with a modified *.ini

[Roxlimn]

Kroniker81:



1) This game was not made for you in particular. Whether or not you give a damn about Normal difficulty is not a valid point of discussion. Nobody cares.



2) I am not claiming that adherence to lore is a straw man argument. Look up what a straw man argument is.



3) There is no prohibition of power use on Insanity or Hardcore.



4) Please direct me to the thread that contains the modifications.

[danman2424]

 Ya I hate it when companies screw up with the higher difficulties. One thing Call of duty gets right is that on veteran enemies always go down the same. 1 shot to the head will kill an enemy no matter what and that's why playing the game is so satisfying no matter what the difficulty.

Other games try to artificially pack on the difficulty  by adding pounds and pounds of armor on enemies and making your bullets/powers very weak against them so that you have to waste 10 clips on them before they go down. Yes it might be a little more difficult, but it certainly isn't fun or as satisfying.

Higher difficulties should up the AI, make them faster, more accurate, and do more damage, but they should never pack on extra health to the enemies. Imagine if COD on veteran meant you had to hit an enemy with 10 headshots to put them down instead of one? Completely dissatisfying.

[Kroniker81]

Roxlimn wrote...

1) This game was not made for you in particular. Whether or not you give a damn about Normal difficulty is not a valid point of discussion. Nobody cares.

2) I am not claiming that adherence to lore is a straw man argument. Look up what a straw man argument is.

3) There is no prohibition of power use on Insanity or Hardcore.

4) Please direct me to the thread that contains the modifications.

1.) Likewise nobody cares about your subjective judgments. And yes it is a valid point. Just you saying it is invalid doesn't make it so.

2.) I dont need a lecture from you. Another way of going out of the way to present some real arguments as you did on all the other threads as well like Hoffburgers thread.

3.) You have not played it obviously on higher difficulties.

4.) I have better things to do. But a hint, there is a thread about 55 pages long in which you posted a lot as well and I am pretty sure there were several posts containing the info directly or presenting links for it.

[Roxlimn]

Kroniker81:



1) Fortunately, I don't forward discussion based on subjective judgment. Apart from which, such a statement has no bearing on this point. You don't give a damn about Normal. So what? No one cares. What's subjective about that?



2) I sidestep nothing. Whether or not you need a lecture is a matter of argument, but it is clear that you were not aware of what a strawman argument is and to where it applied. Thus, you need to know what it is first. It was a helpful piece of advice.



3) Prove it. I can relate concrete details about play on 4 classes on Hardcore. You or anyone else can confirm the data.



4) Thank you. I will check out the thread. That said, if you are asking people to try out a modification, then it only makes sense for you to direct them to it, no? What's the point of asking people to try out a mod, then declining to provide sourcing or reference for it? It's totally nonsensical.

[Kroniker81]

Roxlimn wrote...

Kroniker81:

1) Fortunately, I don't forward discussion based on subjective judgment. Apart from which, such a statement has no bearing on this point. You don't give a damn about Normal. So what? No one cares. What's subjective about that?

2) I sidestep nothing. Whether or not you need a lecture is a matter of argument, but it is clear that you were not aware of what a strawman argument is and to where it applied. Thus, you need to know what it is first. It was a helpful piece of advice.

3) Prove it. I can relate concrete details about play on 4 classes on Hardcore. You or anyone else can confirm the data.

4) Thank you. I will check out the thread. That said, if you are asking people to try out a modification, then it only makes sense for you to direct them to it, no? What's the point of asking people to try out a mod, then declining to provide sourcing or reference for it? It's totally nonsensical.

1.) That you say no one cares. Got it finally?

2.) Again side stepping. But w/e I won't comment anymore it's useless with you since it is totally irrelevant. And no I did no use it wrongly. And no you don't want to be helpful. You want to be right. Simple as that. Not that I am different but at least I don't pretend otherwise.

3.) Did you proof anything? What no? Oh snap.

4.) You have been posting in that particular thread a lot.

Modifié par Kroniker81, 11 février 2010 - 11:21 .

[Paeyvn]

Yeah, it does kind of suck that many abilities are rendered largely useless or at best situational on insanity. I personally believe insanity could use improvements, AI improvements being the best possible, but it's not a simple change so I'm not expecting to see it any time soon.



I have to agree and disagree at the same time though dan, they did up the hp a lot and such, but for the most part I don't find them taking 10 billion shots to die even on insane...they definitely do take more than normal, but not an agonizing difference. I do however notice the shots required to die are significantly less.

[gr00grams]

Did you play an adept with biotics working on shields? Is such adept overpowered, more powerful than other classes?" The answer is NO.

Yes actually, I did try the mod. It makes adept insanely OP.
Disable any enemy, regardless of anything makes the only challenge of a fight how long it takes to kill them.

Singularity only burns out fast if you let an enemy with protection into for more than a couple seconds

This is untrue.
I can hold a harbinger on the final run and have enough time for 2 warps from myself, one from Miranda, and time to gun the last remaining bit down without a double cast.

And yeah, it is totally logical that since ME 1 biotics have worsened so much that most cannot really be used until armor AND shields are down and many enemies are just 2 shots away from dying.

This is also untrue. Heavy Warp does the most damage to barriers and armor pound for pound. Last time I checked, that was a biotic move. Again, warp does the absolute most damage per hit to protections except shields. Also, all biotic moves will damage protected enemies. Like you can cast singularity to hold any enemy, and spam throws on it to take out their shields in about 3 or so shots.

How is any of that ineffective?

Like really what is it you guys want? If you run with a full biotic group, i.e. Miranda, Jack and the player character, you can pretty much steam roll anything on any difficulty.

What is it you want?

Modifié par gr00grams, 11 février 2010 - 11:45 .

[Roxlimn]

Kroniker81:

1) No. No one cares about your personal preferences. That is not subjective. If you can refer me to 70 or so people who do, then I'll revise to say that a negligible number of people care about your personal preferences. If you can refer me to 500 000 people who care about your personal preferences on Mass Effect 2, then I'll retract the statement.

2) No.  I don't care whether or not I am right.  I once thought that Singularity did not work on guys with defenses.  I was wrong and happy to change my mind given the data that I confirmed firsthand.  I've also been wrong about how Throw and Pull interact with certain enemies.  I care that there is discussion and that the right data and logic prevail.  Whether or not I happen to be right is peripheral to that.  It just so happens that I'm right a lot of the time because I base my reasoning on logic and data as opposed to hearsay and exaggeration.

3) Talk is cheap. You assert that I have not played on Hardcore. Prove it or shut it.

4) Yes. That does not mean that I know where the ini file modification parameters are. Direct me to them. It serves your interests. If you want me or anyone else to try them out, then provide the data.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 12 février 2010 - 12:01 .

[Balek-Vriege]

Based off my personal expereience on an insanity run this is what I think of each Adept default power:



Biotic Mastery: Less recharge time on all your powers. I always go Nemesis but Bastion + Biotic duration upgrade could make an extra long Singularity. Regardless I always pump this to max after the first mission on a ME1 lvl60 based character.



Singularity: This is your only true crowd controlling ability on Hardcore and Insanity. Until I figured out on insanity (not easily apparent on normal/veteran because things die so fast) that Singularity stuns 95% of enemies with defenses who enter it, I thought the Adept class was gimped. You can lock down some enemies and bosses for an entire fight if need be. Maxed after Biotic Mastery.



Warp: This is your only true damage dealing power on all difficulties. Everything else is based on crowd control. On Veteran and below you will spam this anyways most of the time except during rushes when Pull/Throw combos are faster. However, on insanity I find myself shooting off a lot more Singularities than Warps depending on the situation. Maxed after Singularity.



Pull: Great for normal difficulties and just a utility/gimmicky power on anything harder. Use it to set up a quick detonation with warp or to use as secondary CC if Singularity is keeping a tough enemy from attacking. Also pulling enemies over a ledge in front of them will most likely auto kill them seconds later without any follow up. I max this to Pull Field after Biotic Mastery, Singularity, Warp and my Bonus Power are maxed.



Throw: Not as good as Pull for insanity gimmicks but it has its uses. Basically if your in a tight situation vs. a defenseless tough enemy, it can make a good instinctive reaction power which automatically gives you "predictable" space. Using Pull or Singularity on a defenseless Geth Prime in melee range can make a dicey situation (especially in enclosed spaces) even more dicey when it ends up in an awkward place behind you. Throw just pushes it away and you can keep spamming Throw until its the desired distance away for follow up. It's also a great power to hit defenseless enemies off ledges behind them. I always put my last point in this power as the situations its useful for don't require great force. Hit something enough with Throw it will eventually go somewhere.



Shockwave: I never use it. The last time I used it was the first day I played the game and I reloaded the game to put the point in Throw instead. The power just isn't worth it on higher difficulties when you have Singularity and it's too slow on the recharge to be a utility power like Pull/Throw. Don't waste your squad points here.



In the end Adept not only works on insanity but after a few mission it became fairly easy and fun. You get used to things like the time you can afford to peak out from cover, watching your healthbar adeptly (heheh) from the corner of your eye, using/switching cover correctly and knowing when/how to use your powers. Using an Adept is all tactics and strategy coming into a fight and because of that the Adept player usually ends up being more skilled (at least more perceptive of their surroundings) than players using "easier" classes.

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Hey guys, why it became so personal?
Chill out.

My 2 cents:

I've never ever heard about such ridiculus argument that the game mechanics and lore is based on normal difficulty. Since when in games higher difficulties have different set of rules and lore? Normal difficulty is correct to the lore and works like ME1 but insanity doesn't have to follow the rules?

When I play on insanity I pity biotics. Jack for example. Supposed to be the most powerful human biotic can't do a **** without weapons. Jack vs shielded and armored enemy is completely defenseless. She either has to shoot down the shields and armor or forget about biotics.

This is how increased difficulty should work? A mage whose spells are resisted until he beat the crap out of the enemy with his trusty staff? Imagine that happen in Dragon Age or any other game. This is unjustified, unnecessary, not normal and not logical. Of course the mage still works. He still owns insanity with that staff, magic missile and hold person but where did other spells go? Well first the enemy needs a good bit of beating.

Nobody is bothered with that? This is normal way to increase the challange?

gr00grams wrote...

Disable any enemy, regardless of anything makes the only challenge of a fight how long it takes to kill them.

Hey, this is exactly how I feel playing my soldier and infiltrator. Glad to hear that your adept is finally in line with strongest classes and doing what was advertised. Still sniper rifle remains the winner but biotics are close behind the guns.

[javierabegazo]

I actually really REALLY LOVE playing INSANITY as an Adept, it's a lot of fun and if you plan your character right, it's really rewarding. But certain biotic abilities such as Throw or Shockwave I never really use

[javierabegazo]

Oh, and my Adept has a Sniper Rifle

[Soruyao]

javierabegazo wrote...

I actually really REALLY LOVE playing INSANITY as an Adept, it's a lot of fun and if you plan your character right, it's really rewarding. But certain biotic abilities such as Throw or Shockwave I never really use

Haven't seen you around for awhile!  Guess you've been busy playing the game eh? X3

I had a lot of fun with adepts too.   I think shockwave is the most underrated skill in the game simply because it isnt very good with one point in it, and it doesn't fit the image of the way adepts fight.   I'm gonna try maxing it out first and see if I can't make it sing.  I  suspect  it's better than people make it sound, and just it's role and position make it rarely tested properly.  (I'm guilty of this too, I used it like 3 times because I was having so much fun with the other skills)

[javierabegazo]

Soruyao wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

I actually really REALLY LOVE playing INSANITY as an Adept, it's a lot of fun and if you plan your character right, it's really rewarding. But certain biotic abilities such as Throw or Shockwave I never really use

Haven't seen you around for awhile!  Guess you've been busy playing the game eh? X3

Thanks Actually, I've been totally strapped for time lately between a new job that involves a two hour commute and trying to squeeze in playing time with ME2.

I'm still on my first playthrough of ME2, 40 hours into it and am at around what I assume is the 3/4 point of the story, every squad member loyal Also, I've been playing (mentioned above) as an Adept on Insanity, so that also takes a bit of time but I'm really enjoying it.

but anyways, the new job tried to cheat me out of a bit of money so I quit, so once again, have some more free time

[Soruyao]

javierabegazo wrote...
Thanks Actually, I've been totally strapped for time lately between a new job that involves a two hour commute and trying to squeeze in playing time with ME2.

I'm still on my first playthrough of ME2, 40 hours into it and am at around what I assume is the 3/4 point of the story, every squad member loyal Also, I've been playing (mentioned above) as an Adept on Insanity, so that also takes a bit of time but I'm really enjoying it.

but anyways, the new job tried to cheat me out of a bit of money so I quit, so once again, have some more free time

Hooray for free time   I just finished my second run on my adept and I actually cleared it a good 30% faster. (First was infiltrator.)   But a lot of that is probably knowing where everything is.   How was snipers as an adept? I'm not the best shot so I'm worried I might miss a lot without my sniper time.    AR worked really well for me though.  The GPR took down shields so fast I was just constantly throwing people at things.

I kinda want to do a runthrough as a shotty adept, just for lols.   The new shotgun they just DLC'd seems like it would work pretty well for an adept.

[vhatever]

Shotgun adept. Mwahaha. Sourlamo never disappoints.

[Soruyao]

vhatever wrote...

Shotgun adept. Mwahaha. Sourlamo never disappoints.

Hi vhatever!   Can I have your babies?

[Balek-Vriege]

Flash_in_the_flesh wrote...

Hey guys, why it became so personal?
Chill out.

My 2 cents:

I've never ever heard about such ridiculus argument that the game mechanics and lore is based on normal difficulty. Since when in games higher difficulties have different set of rules and lore? Normal difficulty is correct to the lore and works like ME1 but insanity doesn't have to follow the rules?

When I play on insanity I pity biotics. Jack for example. Supposed to be the most powerful human biotic can't do a **** without weapons. Jack vs shielded and armored enemy is completely defenseless. She either has to shoot down the shields and armor or forget about biotics.

This is how increased difficulty should work? A mage whose spells are resisted until he beat the crap out of the enemy with his trusty staff? Imagine that happen in Dragon Age or any other game. This is unjustified, unnecessary, not normal and not logical. Of course the mage still works. He still owns insanity with that staff, magic missile and hold person but where did other spells go? Well first the enemy needs a good bit of beating.

Nobody is bothered with that? This is normal way to increase the challange?

gr00grams wrote...

Disable any enemy, regardless of anything makes the only challenge of a fight how long it takes to kill them.

Hey, this is exactly how I feel playing my soldier and infiltrator. Glad to hear that your adept is finally in line with strongest classes and doing what was advertised. Still sniper rifle remains the winner but biotics are close behind the guns.

Actually I have seen many Devs of other games use the argument that higher difficulties are there just for a challenge and are not balanced like normal difficulties.  As for lore I find higher difficulties actually make more sense in general.  When it comes to biotics it definately doesn't fit insanity because of the lore/science behnd them.  In reality this is a game not a book so the lore argument doesn't matter much and the balanced for normal difficulty argument doesn't make people feel any better when they're getting their butts kicked with one class and owning with another.

As for the Jack argument I agree there's a discrepancy from the cinematic version of Jack  and the playable version.  Adept Shepard is a biotic god compared to her.  But Jack is kind of off topic since there are other squad members who don't compare to others biotics or not and no Squad member is better than any Shepard.

Biotics (specifically Warp and Singularity) work great the way they are.  The only improvements I would make are to other biotic powers.  I would make Throw able to actually knock back enemies with defenses at 1/2 or 1/4 of the force and Pull able to keep enemies from moving but able to shoot back or just slow them down.  I would not want ME1 biotics where you're basically a Jedi Knight and anything goes.  Instead of biotics being bashed it would be the exact opposite.  The only viable class WOULD be an Adept.

[javierabegazo]

Soruyao wrote...
  How was snipers as an adept? I'm not the best shot so I'm worried I might miss a lot without my sniper time.    AR worked really well for me though.  The GPR took down shields so fast I was just constantly throwing people at things.

I kinda want to do a runthrough as a shotty adept, just for lols.   The new shotgun they just DLC'd seems like it would work pretty well for an adept.

Having a sniper rifle as an Adept is just pure gold It's so much fun, I have Heavy Warp which on Insanity rips out Armor from a Loki Mech with one hit, and I have a maxed out Crippling Slam as a bonus talent which stuns enemies for 8 seconds as well as having a 3 second recharge time! so I didn't need the up close attacks, that's where my sniper rifle comes it

If you're an Adept, I HIGHLY recommend getting SLAM as a bonus talent, if you specialize as an Adept Bastion, your recharge time for Slam will be around 2 seconds and the recharge for Warp feels like it's around 4 seconds. these two abilities are absolutely priceless on INSANITY

[Soruyao]

javierabegazo wrote...
Having a sniper rifle as an Adept is just pure gold It's so much fun, I have Heavy Warp which on Insanity rips out Armor from a Loki Mech with one hit, and I have a maxed out Crippling Slam as a bonus talent which stuns enemies for 8 seconds as well as having a 3 second recharge time! so I didn't need the up close attacks, that's where my sniper rifle comes it

If you're an Adept, I HIGHLY recommend getting SLAM as a bonus talent, if you specialize as an Adept Bastion, your recharge time for Slam will be around 2 seconds and the recharge for Warp feels like it's around 4 seconds. these two abilities are absolutely priceless on INSANITY

Really? Slam? =o  Doesn't that fill the same niche as lift or throw?   Would it be worth losing an ammo power over?  Maybe I'll give it a try.

[Kurupt87]

slam a pulled person = win

[Benny922]

Slam is pretty sweet. I could see it being pretty useful for an adept. I'm not quite sure how people are annoyed that biotics suck on insanity. They suck just as much as tech.

[Soruyao]

So I'm thinking maybe my next runthrough will be maxing shockwave/slam/classmod, with shottyspec. I'll basically be a vanguard without charge. :3



Should be fun.

[javierabegazo]

Soruyao wrote...


Really? Slam? =o  Doesn't that fill the same niche as lift or throw?   Would it be worth losing an ammo power over?  Maybe I'll give it a try.

I haven't tried Armor Piercing Rounds yet, but I don't really need them, because my upgraded Carnifex Hand Cannon plus Heavy Warp always tears through armor. As for other powers, I just bring squad mates and their maxed out ammo Powers evolved to Team Squad Ammo for their effects 

You should REALLY try out a maxed out Crippling Slam. it's really a whole lot of fun. Try casting a Pull Field on 3 enemies, having miranda throw an Unstable Warp, and then cast Slam The enemies turn to rag dolls