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[Chasedanger]

HeyUder wrote...

Chasedanger wrote...

HeyUder wrote...

Chasedanger wrote...

agathonvasbattlestar wrote...

The only thing I can see is that humans where a prothian experiment that stopped when the reapers came. If Martin Sheen (why the frak is he called tim?) was a prothian you would think humans would be the first race to get space travel after the fall of the prothians.

Humanity is not 50,000 years old in the game and thats when the Reapers wiped out the Protheans. So the Protheans did not start a humanity "experiment". The Reapers flat out told you in the first game that they wipe out ALL read ALL life each cycle. The Protheans were not the first. There were other cycles before them. If humans were created by the protheans they would have been wiped out as well when the Protheans were

Apparently the prothean scientists on Ilos managed to survive the Reaper attack by hiding, but eventually died anyways. I think it's very possible that other protheans managed to hide and lived to tell the tale. All I know is that Protheans, Mass Relays/Effect, and Reapers are going to be key to the story.

And how are you so sure humanity isn't 50,000 years old in the game? How old are they in the game, and when do they say this?

You'd have to read the books, especially Mass Effect : Revelation which by the way before you ask is written by the same person who head writes the games. Drew Karpyshyn. It's a great book if you are a fan of the game. It's stated in there. We are not that old as a species. It states in the book how long we have been around as a species. And once again, even if we WERE around that long, which we weren't the Reapers would have harvested us along with all other sentient life. The book will even explain to you that other races Asari etc have even been around longer than us.

I just looked up (irl) how long ****** sapiens have been around and we're around 200,000 to 400,000 years old as a species. Modern humans are about 50,000.

Just wondering, does Kapshyrn (sp?) give a number that is basically stating that the mass effect humanity is an alternate humanity to our own? IE, humans are a much younger race than IRL? I can't see that being true for some reason, as most of the game is based on some parts of reality. They cited the moon landing of 1969 in a codex entry.

Sorry my bad... I left a 0 off on the 50,000 year cycle. It's 500,000 years. So there you have it let's say we are around 400,000ish years , we've missed out on that last Reaper cycle. I apologize for the confusion.

[Space Shot]

Chasedanger wrote...
And once again, even if we WERE around that long, which we weren't the Reapers would have harvested us along with all other sentient life.

Well, no.  The reapers don't destroy all sentient life.  That's Halo.  The Reapers target advanced galactic civilizations that make use of their Mass Effect technology which has been established to ultimately undermine them (and just them) when they finally return.  Other life forms (like H. sapien) are left free to develop naturally, otherwise the reapers would have nothing but newly evolved single celled organisms to contend with at the end of each cycle.

[HeyUder]

Chasedanger - It's just as Space Shot said. Reapers destroy/consume the intelligent species. As taken from the ME wikia:



"For reasons currently unknown, the Reapers cull the intelligent races of the Milky Way galaxy, returning to dark space with the organics' technology and resources."



And I think you're right, they come every 50,000 years.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

They "harvest" the most advanced species every 50,000 years(or there abouts)



I can't believe I actually posted this, SIGH.

[samuraix87]

well wait aminute didnt liara seem amazed that a human could servive an encounter with a prothean beacon and that whatever that was in the beacon was massive and only a prothean could handle that info inthe beacon just saying luke became a jedi maybe shepard is part prothean

[Zayin]

Here's what I posted in another thread where someone raised the possibility of enough Protheans escaping the last reaping cycle to have a viable population:

One the one hand, it would be a great surprise to find that enough Protheans managed to escape the reaping to still be a viable race. If the Protheans were on the cusp of understanding and fully replicating the Mass Relays, it's possible that other scientists could eventually duplicate the work of the scientists on Illos. If they fully understood that the Reapers guide the technological lines that sentient races follow after finding the Citadel and the Relays, 50,000 years is a feasibly sufficient scifi timeline to create and further a different line of technology. And IF the scientists who went to the citadel somehow were rescued by other survivors the whole technology angle could work even better.

This line of thinking requires a certain number of "If"s to happen but it could have happened. It would be a powerful moment in the story to find Protheans and have them come to our aid. And given the way ME2 was building up the "Gondor Calls for Aid" scenario with different allies, it could be cool to see actual Protheans with a fighting chance in the war that consumed their ancestors. If the Protheans hid somewhere behind a locked Relay and then come back, it's an adequate reason for survival against the Protheans. As it is, even with all the allies we can gain in ME2, the galactic community as we know it doesn't have the strength to repel the Reaper fleet should it find another way into the Milky Way galaxy.

On the other hand, leaving the Protheans dead and gone leaves their story a tragic one. One of the few things we really know about the Protheans is that they knew their race was at an end and they fought to give the future a chance. One of the things I like about certain SciFi stories is that they have tragedy in them. For example, I like aspects of StarTrek but on the whole I'll never enjoy that series as much as others because things are too idealistic and clean in it (yeah, I know that was the series' creator's whole point... but it still doesn't sit right with me). Yeah, StarTrek has its problems but the series has a completely different feel than Babylon5 did. Life isn't perfect and with tradegy a setting feels more plausible. Also, the focus of the Mass Effect story is on Shepard and the humans. The Protheans had there chance and sadly lost it when the Reapers came. If the writing team came back and brought the Protheans back (as Protheans, not Collectors), it takes some of the focus off the humans. It borders on anti-climactic if we have Prothean suvivors appear and save the day. But who knows?

There was a different thread on these forums where someone put out the idea that what if it was the Protheans that somehow encased the Sol System's Relay in ice. The Protheans had studied humanity (and for all we know tinkered with humans). What if the Relay as locked that way to further safeguard humanity under the assumption that by the time Humanity found and uncovered the Relay they might be prepared to use it. If it took longer than one Reaping cycle for Humanity to get to that point, the Relay was still locked and the Reapers likely wouldn't use FTL drives to seek out the Sol System on the chance of life there when no Citadel records indicated life there.)

I don't know if it's what Bioware intended ... and if a Relay can get lost from a nova, one could somehow get trapped in an icy condition around Pluto. Personally, I like the idea that the Protheans saw potential in Humanity and somehow lent a protective helping hand. Wouldn't it be ironic indeed if the Sol System Relay is where the Protheans retreated back to and then used FTL drives to go somewhere else.

In the end, it's Bioware's space opera story. I can't wait to see how it turns out.

Additionally:  I'd much rather have a Blasto the Hanar Spectre as a squadmate than a Prothean.    "Enkindle this!"

Modifié par Zayin, 11 février 2010 - 04:14 .

[HeyUder]

@Zayin: great post. I like the part about the Sol relay (human centrist extraordinaire). Blasto needs to be a key figure in ME3 too.

Modifié par HeyUder, 11 février 2010 - 04:25 .

[Zayin]

Thanks. Glad you liked it. My post was a reply of sorts to the poster Wynne in a different thread who gave an empassioned idea about wanting to meet living Protheans in ME3. They raised some good points.



I wish I could remember where I saw the idea about someone else freezing the Sol Relay. A working searching would be nice here, heh. Someone did encase a Relay in something is the ME equivalent to "burying a Gate" to stop visitors in the Stargate universe. And it was mentioned that various Relays were lost. Oh, the possibilities.



Back to potential squadmates, even if the Protheans are still around and could come aid us in ME3, I don't know if I'd want one as a companion. If you have to move around inconspicuously for any reason, bringing along a Prothean whom certain races' scanning would be sure to notice or recognize (i.e. Council Races especially as of ME2) would draw more questions than you'd probably like. Besides, if the Hanar can train the galaxy's most dangerous assassin, they would have to have some interesting skills ... even if they aren't as physically strong or agile as other races.



Anyway, the hallmarks of a good story are that they stir emotions in the reader/viewer and make them think. Bioware has certainly led a number of us to ponder and consider. Thanks Bioware for the great game!

[NoBrandOnMe]

Why was there only one species with the protheans but there are like ten at current time?

[Rm80]

I believe Mordin says it best when talking to him: more or less everything in the collectors (former protheans) have been replaced with tech parts......there is no salvation for the protheans.



But if Bioware wanted it to happend they would of course find a way to do it

[daguest]

-tim is not prothean, he is human. Or he was. With a family etc... I read it on wiki, sound like it come from the book.

-prothean are dead. What is left of them is some artefacts, and collectors. And according to mordin, there is NO WAY to bring back the prothean using the collector. It's like creating a quarian with a geth, most part of prothean bodies was replaced by tech, and their dna was heavily altered for making collectors.

-Even if a small colony could have survived the reapers, hiding themselves like they did on ilos, like a higly secret military base, they should have show themsleves long time ago, to help galaxy facing the future danger of reapers. They didn't. And according to vigil, reapers were very methodical, wiping species planet by planet, for thousands years. Those hiding on ilos were underground, in a secret laboratory and in stases.



So there is very very little chance any prothean survived the reapers onslaught, and then, there is very little chance he or they could survive so long, and finally, if they did, they should have shown themselves to prepare the galaxy for he upcoming threat.

Prothean extinction is similar to dinosaurs.They are dead. Or alive as collectors. Like dinosaurs are still alive, as bird. You can't recreate a dinosaurs from a bird, and you can't recreate a prothean from a collector. There is no dinosaurs alive, and there is no prothean alive.

Plus, i don't want a prothean on my team. They failed. Shepard won twice. Shepard>reapers>protheans

[Zayin]

People who want the Protheans back aren't saying you can bring them back from the Collector state of being. That branch of Protheans are dead and essentially little more than husks. Yeah, as Mordin pointed out, they have no glands, digestive system or even a soul; technological implants are all that make the bodies "run" now.

However unlikely it is, people have pointed out that it's possible that enough Protheans escaped and established a viable colony elsewhere, hidden from the relays. If Bioware went this route, it wouldn't totally come out of left field as a deus-ex-machina bit. Doesn't mean they will. Even if the Protheans are totally dead and gone, they left their mark: a chance for the future.

Edit:  IF any Protheans outside of Illos survived, given the picture painted in ME1 about the Reaper cullings, they would have had to do so by going to an uncharted planet either in a system without a Relay (which would take time using an FTL drive) or by locking/encasing a Relay.  Going somewhere without a Relay at all would be the most viable option since you wouldn't know what the Reapers could or could not do with the existing Relays.

As for why wouldn't they show themselves?  Pragmatism.  IF you were a part of a race that knew about the Reapers and their culling and had to rebuild yourselves via an Ark and colony, you would NOT go re-introducing yourself to the Galatic community because that would mean you would be put into the Citadel records and the Reapers would likely seek you out again.  You would only reveal yourselves when you were advanced enough to the point where you felt you could stand a chance.  That or you would stay hidden forever with no stellar contact to stay off the Reapers' radar.

Modifié par Zayin, 11 février 2010 - 05:23 .

[Skyblade012]

There is no reason at all to have humanity be a species somehow protected by the Protheans. It would basically ruin the entire story. The Prothean Conduit was a last ditch effort to save the galaxy. Their brightest scientists, their greatest minds, throwing together a final chance to prevent the Reapers from coming. Even that chance failed to protect the Protheans. It only secured hope for the future through incredible luck. Putting another surviving unknown Prothean colony would destroy all that.



The Protheans had their chance. They served their purpose. They gave us a chance at survival. It is our job to take that and run. Let them rest in peace. Look back to the failures of the past if you want. Pray for salvation from the ancients who failed to even save themselves from the onslaught. The Protheans weren't remarkable in the slightest. They built off the technology of those that came before. They didn't even succeed in destroying a Reaper, as some of their predecessors did. I say let them die. Their sacrifice secured the future, there is no need to cheapen that by some miraculous resurrection. The sliver of hope they gave is all we need. We do not require some deus-ex-machina savior (and, yes, that is exactly what this would be). We will avenge the Protheans, and the races that came before. Let them come.

[Zayin]

Skyblade, I respectfully beg to differ.

First and foremost, we are operating on very limited information about the past. Draw whatever conclusions you wish based on the info but you cannot simply dismiss possibilities out-of-hand. There are many factors to consider.

No one is "praying for salvation from the ancients who failed to even save themselves from the onslaught." At least, I'm not doing that. And I already said that if it's the Protheans who jump in and save the day that is a deus-ex-machina answer that diminishes the Mass Effect story. I don't want an anti-climactic finish like that. But as it stands, unless the Rachni have a huge jump in either power or numbers (for those who spared the Queen) as well as the True Geth in their own technolgical advancement apart from Reaper technology as well as Humanity via Reaper tech (for those who spared the Collector Base), whatever Bioware uses to resolve the situation could dangerously approach being a Deus-ex-machina. For example, I've seen a few people put out the idea of somehow redirecting whatever relay the Reapers come through into a Blackhole. That would be a deus-ex-machina.

Also, it's unfair of you to put down the Protheans for falling into the same trap that has been sprung by the Reapers who knows how many times. You are basically mocking someone who got sucker-punched for being punched in the first place. There are likely better examples but that is the best I can come up with off the top of my head.

According the limited lore we know, the Protheans WERE remarkable. You can't dismiss that fact. They were the only race that was on the cusp of understanding and creating their own Mass Relays. They also had an empire that ran the entire Galaxy (as least all the Relays). True, there are other factors that could make the second less awe-inspiring such as if they were the only suitably advanced race in their Reaping cycle and didn't have to battle for dominance. The Protheans created the Conduit and also altered the situation with the Keepers in the Citadel. You cannot logically call the Protheans unremarkable and then go on about their giving a sliver of hope ... one that no other Reaping cycle was given. Also, I put forth that the Protheans were remarkable in that they were able to leave behind enough artifacts and relics spread throughout the galaxy to leave evidence of their existence as a race.
(Devil's Advocate comment: I conceed it is possible that the Reapers leave just enough traces of the dominant race they harvest so that the upcoming races do not question the nature of the Relays and Citadel too much.)

From the limited evidence we have, only once has a race met with even limited success against the Reapers and left evidence of that fact. They STILL lost (see the Derelict Reaper situation). We know of another race that wasn't harvested by the Reapers, as evidenced by the vast number of crypts on their planet (though a volus had a vision and is trying to find a way there in the crypts to combat monstrous machines who are the enemies of beings of light. However, the presence of the crypts only means those beings died inbetween Reapings. There is no evidence (yet) they sufficiently fought off the Reapers. And if they did, what caused them to die off anyway? (But this line of thinking leads to an entirely different discussion. We are speaking of the Protheans.)

The Protheans lost because the trap was sprung. Did the Protheans possibily have any military might that could stand up against the Reapers? We don't know. And it doesn't matter anyway given that all the Prothean people were cut off when the Reapers came and cut off the Relay network. Did the Protheans manage to take any Reapers with them? We don't know. If they did, it's highly unlikely that the other Reapers would have left dead Reapers out in plain sight. The Derelict Reaper was only around still due to its proximity to a failed star; it was an anomaly in the atmosphere of a star and dangerous to approach. And don't forget that anyone who stayed on to study it became indoctrinated so who knows how many times over the Reaper cycles that Derelict was rediscovered and studied by researchers who were inevitably lost. And it was mentioned in ME1 that it's not easy to locate cold things in space with scanners. (It was a slightly different situation since the Mu Relay was cold inside nebula gases.)

Anyway, back to the idea of the Local Cluster from my other post. There are a plausible reasons for the Protheans could have protected humanity, given their interest in early humans. Likely? No. Possible/Plausible? Yes.

As you said, Illos and the Conduit was about saving the Galaxy. It's a tragic setup and a worthy plan by a surviving dozen scientists. It worked! If the Protheans are totally dead and gone and our chance now is their legacy ... that is a great story. I like it and have no problem with that. It is a fitting end for a race whose name has a meaning of "Predecessors."

What I have done is expand on a possibility put forth by others. It's entirely possible that the Protheans helped Humanity if only indirectly.

Possible scenario:
Some Protheans escaped to the Local Cluster because they knew of Humanity from their anthropology & xenobiology studies. (For sake of argument, this would have to be enough Protheans to be a viable, sustainable population if they were to make a reappearance in the Mass Effect Lore.) Why go there? Humanity was not advanced and would be ignored in a harvest by the Reapers if noticed. At this point the only means to increase the probability of survival is to hide.

IF the Protheans were on the run in this way, what are their options?
1) Leave the reach of a Relay. Likely option. Run and hide ASAP.
2) Try to find a way to "close the door behind them" to Prevent Reapers from jumping in behind them and overtaking the refugees. If it is in your means to do so, this increases your survivability.
3) Attempt to hide on a world near a Relay and disgarding spacetravel. (Highly unlikely option. Do not underestimate a genocidal force. If you are wrong, your race is doomed. Again.)

According to the ME lore, the Local Cluster Relay was encased in Ice. This is a somewhat odd situation for a Relay don't you think? True, various explanations would be more than sufficient to explain a frozen Relay and frozen moons near Pluto. But encased in ice is a suitable enough to block active use yet fairly simple enough unlock from "our end" when we were ready. Sensors and even direct line-of-sight (depending on ice qualities) could detect something in the ice. As Evidenced in ME2 with a certain Heavy gun, there is technology to flash-freeze a target. It is not inconceivable to have this on a larger scale. However, for this situation to occur, it is only feasible if these refugee Protheans were not immediately fleeing Reapers through the Relay. However the Relay was frozen would likely take more time than an instantaneous follow-through the Relay by a Reaper.

Immediate benefits of sealing the Relay?
1) Reapers can't instantly appear behind you through the Relay as you flee. This buys your race the luxury of time. Time to plan. Time to try to hide. Time to leave clues (i.e. cache on Mars).  Time to research.  Time for whatever Bioware says they would do.
2) Intentionally or no, a race whom the Protheans studied for whatever reasons benefit from this escape plan. Humans are handed a nearly a free pass to advance and progress to the stars to join the Galactic community at some point. If Humanity didn't make it there in the next Reaping cycle, they would still be safe since there are no records of Earth/Humanity and no records of a working Local Cluster Relay, either. It's not a guarrantee as there are still other factors: stellar environment, global environment, social volitilaty, etc. 

The ME series has established that humans are special, even if for reasons we didn't consider in ME1.  It is possible that the Protheans recognized our potential way back when and wanted to help preserve us?  Possible but doubtful.  If this scenario occurred, it likely occurred because the Protheans were on the run looking out for their race's survival.  Even so, humanity benefitted IF this happened. 

Alright, so some Protheans from a galaxy-spanning empire have escaped the Reaping. What to do now?
1) Stay in the Local Cluster. Unlikely given the lore and human history but they could have left more of an impact on humanity for all we know. Staying within the immediate reach of a Relay is not something you gamble your race's existence with Reapers harvesting worlds. Do not underestimate space-faring, genocidal machines.
2) Continue onward somewhere via FTL drive to a different system with no Relay. More likely option. Even with a Relay temporarily blocked, the further away from a Relay, the safer the Protheans would be. Once a destination was reached, these refugee Protheans could try to rebuild. At this point, the Protheans would logically seek an insular, reclusive cultural stance. Anything that would lead to knowledge of their existence on a galactic scale endangers their race.

Why not meet other races and warn them?
1) This leads to records of their existence and a reason for the Reapers to go looking. Too many clues, physical or verbal would not be wise.
2) Isolation is best shot at continued existence. Sabotaging the Citadel and Keepers could be justified as doing their part for the next "generation" (assuming the refugees knew about it at all) .

All this supposition is just one way Bioware could find a way for Protheans to make an appearance in ME3. All that said, any descendants of Prothean Refugees in this fashion would be culturally different than the Protheans of 50,000 years ago due to norms/mores/laws that would arise about secrecy. Technology speaking, arguments could be made for these Protheans being more advanced or less advanced than the Protheans used to be.

Would Bioware do this? Probably not. The irony of this situation being yet another example of the BattleStarGalactica scenario / Quarian scenario makes it unlikely that Bioware would use such repitition. Also, unlikely since Bioware already went the route of a "mystery race" with the Collectors. Further evidence why it is unlikely Bioware would give us more Protheans.

Even so, this it's possible. And after all, we were just discussion possibilities here in this forum.  And even if we are totally off base, it's fun.

Edit:  Altered for visual format.  Also, apologies if I repeated myself throughout this.  It's late.

Modifié par Zayin, 11 février 2010 - 08:33 .

[armass]

Another human/protheans theory? Thanks Halo...

[Zayin]

A friend of mine said this but didn't get around to posting it so I thought I would:



If a Geth can go around without much reaction from everyone, what makes anyone think it would be different if you had a Prothean in your squad?



This certainly made me laugh.

[Harry Kirby]

i have one massive point to flaw everything that has been said (or maybe some of it) the protheans were never wiped out they were indoctrinated and are now the collectors and in the whole galaxy who's to say a few hundred could not go into hiding