48 réponses à ce sujet

[Darkannex]

It was established in the calling that any mating of a human and an elf results in human offspring. The fact that Goldanna is human doesn't discount the servant being elven. I think it's a reasonable assumption as most servants you see are elven, but as far as I know-I don't think it's established. Could be wrong!

[Addai]

Darkannex wrote...

It was established in the calling that any mating of a human and an elf results in human offspring. The fact that Goldanna is human doesn't discount the servant being elven. I think it's a reasonable assumption as most servants you see are elven, but as far as I know-I don't think it's established. Could be wrong!

I'm aware about the half-elven thing, but I would think that if she was an elf it would have been brought up at some point.  There are certainly human servants as well, such as Nan in the HN origin or Valena at Redcliffe.

Modifié par Addai67, 12 février 2010 - 09:20 .

[SusanStoHelit]

I'm pretty sure that it did come up - or maybe I'm just remembering it wrongly. Damn, now I've got to try to remember where I got that impression and find it.



*Reserves space in the case that I can find said information.*

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Until David Gaider says so, I am basically not convinced either way. I don't find Fiona a more convincing mother any more than some unamed servant girl. There's the timeline, the Rowan issue, the amulet, for starters. Certainly, Eamon could have lied about some things, but to cover all bases in story would require the elaborate weaving of a bigger cover story/conspiracy than what was needed, and there's far too many gobby mouths to keep the lid on such a thing.



Remember, it wasn't only Eamon who mentioned Rowan. Loghain, who really had no reason to continue such a facade, mentions the embarassment it would be to Rowan, and how it would reduce her in status. Plus, it would have been a possible threat to Cailan's rule and status as heir. Heirs are usually the elder sons, and the only way I could see a bastard being a threat is if he were an elder sibling.



Remember also, it was originally intended that Alistair was about 32 years of age for the game. This ended up being changed later in development because of story mechanics and gameplay. But the original story intent was that he was the elder of the two siblings. The Calling was written, I think, with timeline in mind.



Thus, I do not think it is Fiona. And personally, I rather hope it is not Fiona, and that Maric has a slew of good looking blond bastards out there, so that there shall always be some unclaimed Therin hotties out there in need of some serious sexytime.

[Darkemorrow]

Who says Maric only had one bastard?

It's good to be the king...

[Leonia]

What if.. Maric had lied to Loghain and Eamon to throw them off the scent? Sigh.. I don't know, it's just hard for me to imagine Maric, given his personality, to be creating heirs left and right. It really tore him up that he couldn't raise Fiona's son. I can't imagine him going through that emotional situation multiple times. There's the possibility of something with Flemeth, it didn't necessarily have to result in Morrigan (if it resulted in a child at all) and that certainly would have been before Rowan died, hmm.. so many theories to consider. I hope we learn the truth some day.

[pudi0072000]

leonia42 wrote...

What if.. Maric had lied to Loghain and Eamon to throw them off the scent? Sigh.. I don't know, it's just hard for me to imagine Maric, given his personality, to be creating heirs left and right. It really tore him up that he couldn't raise Fiona's son. I can't imagine him going through that emotional situation multiple times. There's the possibility of something with Flemeth, it didn't necessarily have to result in Morrigan (if it resulted in a child at all) and that certainly would have been before Rowan died, hmm.. so many theories to consider. I hope we learn the truth some day.

I'm also leaning to the idea of Maric *gasp* lying about a few things. If he were to tell the truth about the kid's age, then Loghain is going to realize that something went down between him and an Orlesian Grey Warden (both of which are evil in Loghain's mind. And if he knew Fiona was the mother, that's even worse since she's a mage and not to be trusted). Were I in Maric's shoes, I'd make some story up about a maid in order to avoid the epic tantrum Loghain would throw. I'm not sure Maric lied to Eamon, as it's sort of hard to lie about the baby's age when the man is raising him, but I can definitely see him misleading Loghain.

Modifié par pudi0072000, 13 février 2010 - 02:17 .

[Leonia]

pudi0072000 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

What if.. Maric had lied to Loghain and Eamon to throw them off the scent? Sigh.. I don't know, it's just hard for me to imagine Maric, given his personality, to be creating heirs left and right. It really tore him up that he couldn't raise Fiona's son. I can't imagine him going through that emotional situation multiple times. There's the possibility of something with Flemeth, it didn't necessarily have to result in Morrigan (if it resulted in a child at all) and that certainly would have been before Rowan died, hmm.. so many theories to consider. I hope we learn the truth some day.

I'm also leaning to the idea of Maric *gasp* lying about a few things. If he were to tell the truth about the kid's age, then Loghain is going to realize that something went down between him and an Orlesian Grey Warden (both of which are evil in Loghain's mind. And if he knew Fiona was the mother, that's even worse since she's a mage and not to be trusted). Were I in Maric's shoes, I'd make some story up about a maid in order to avoid the epic tantrum Loghain would throw. I'm not sure Maric lied to Eamon, as it's sort of hard to lie about the baby's age when the man is raising him, but I can definitely see him misleading Loghain.

Hmm, yeah, good point about Eamon. Eamon had to follow along with the lie though to convince Goldana that the baby that killed her mother was indeed Alistair and the son of Maric. Of course they also tried to shut Goldana up about it, or maybe they wanted her to believe they were shutting her up about it. Hmm, hard to trust that harpy's word isn't it? The whole "Goldana connection" is a bit perplexing.

But certainly, Loghain couldn't be allowed to connect the dots. Maric would have been very protective about Fiona (and Alistair) and had Loghain even suspected Fiona was involved he would probably have found some way to kill her or make her life miserable. But then, Fiona would have been safely far away at Weisshaupt fortress. Or perhaps Maric was buying her time to get to the fortress for safety by making up the whole maid story (which maybe Eamon had given him the idea for, maybe hinting that he had a pregnant servant at his castle or had a servant recently die in childbirth). Maric's not exactly a dumb guy, he could have manipulated all the important people to protect those he loved.

Yes, I think I will be sticking with this theory for now

[Sandtigress]

I don't see why we shouldn't believe that Eamon wasn't in on the whole thing. I don't remember anything that says that Eamon believes in the maid story - its Loghain that says all the stuff about protecting Rowan, if I recall correctly.



I think Eamon knew, and lied to everyone else to protect Alistair's identity. What is curious to me is why Eamon ever told Alistair about his heritage at all, since Fiona's request was that he be raised away from court AND without knowledge of his heritage.



It may be, of course, that Eamon plotted all along to use Alistair for a power grab, or in case such a situation ever came to pass. Let the boy know his heritage but instill in him the fact that he's a commoner and not fit to rule blah blah blah so that he never has confidence in himself, so that when the time is right you put the boy on the throne and become his advisor, king in all but name.

[ussnorway]

pudi0072000 wrote...

How is Alistair NOT Maric's son? He and Cailan look almost identical.



Besides, what's the point in telling some kid he's the King's son, but he has no right to the throne and he should never get any funny ideas. That doesn't make any sense...

Probably the same odious guy who decided that a happy ending consists of convincing your Alistair to sleep with that bottle haired so and so of the wilds.

Congratulations you can both go make a life together now... :unsure:Yer right!

[ejoslin]

ussnorway wrote...

Probably the same odious guy who decided that a happy ending consists of convincing your Alistair to sleep with that bottle haired so and so of the wilds.

Congratulations you can both go make a life together now... :unsure:Yer right!

Is that really so bad?  I thought the sex with Morrigan was the least troublesome thing about that whole scenario.

[pudi0072000]

I don't think there was intended to be any "happy" endings. No matter what you do, someone's going to die or unleash some potentially evil thing into the world. That or your fellow Warden loathes you for betraying him and siding with the enemy.

Sex with a hot girl would be a positive in my way of thinking, even if she is a bit of a b*tch.

Modifié par pudi0072000, 13 février 2010 - 05:01 .

[ussnorway]

Lets test it shall we. Just tell your wife/ girl friend that you decided to screw the neighbour in order to get a job promotion and by the way she is now pregnant with your baby but it was just meaning less sex and you want to continue on as if nothing has happened.



Disclaimer; It’s probably prudent to remove any sharp objects from the house before you try this.

[ejoslin]

ussnorway wrote...

Lets test it shall we. Just tell your wife/ girl friend that you decided to screw the neighbour in order to get a job promotion and by the way she is now pregnant with your baby but it was just meaning less sex and you want to continue on as if nothing has happened.

Disclaimer; It’s probably prudent to remove any sharp objects from the house before you try this.

If my husband or I were going to die unless he had sex with someone else, I'd hand him the flowers and give him a kiss before closing the bedroom door.

Edit:  It's the god baby completely under Morrigan's (or worse, Flemmeth's) control that makes ME nervous!

Modifié par ejoslin, 13 février 2010 - 05:50 .

[ussnorway]

Yes, when he starts asking “who my daddy is?” it should be an interesting family reunion... excuse me but Morrigan & Flemmeth are the same person, at least that’s how I understood it.

[Addai]

It could well be that there's another Maric bastard out there. His marriage with Rowan was not entirely a love match, and she was sick for a while, right? He doesn't seem to be a ladies' man, but neither is he very good at resisting a kind woman's advances (Katriel and Fiona).



No mystery why Loghain goes on and on about Rowan, though.

[Sabriana]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Until David Gaider says so, I am basically not convinced either way. I don't find Fiona a more convincing mother any more than some unamed servant girl. There's the timeline, the Rowan issue, the amulet, for starters. Certainly, Eamon could have lied about some things, but to cover all bases in story would require the elaborate weaving of a bigger cover story/conspiracy than what was needed, and there's far too many gobby mouths to keep the lid on such a thing.

Remember, it wasn't only Eamon who mentioned Rowan. Loghain, who really had no reason to continue such a facade, mentions the embarassment it would be to Rowan, and how it would reduce her in status. Plus, it would have been a possible threat to Cailan's rule and status as heir. Heirs are usually the elder sons, and the only way I could see a bastard being a threat is if he were an elder sibling.

Remember also, it was originally intended that Alistair was about 32 years of age for the game. This ended up being changed later in development because of story mechanics and gameplay. But the original story intent was that he was the elder of the two siblings. The Calling was written, I think, with timeline in mind.

Thus, I do not think it is Fiona. And personally, I rather hope it is not Fiona, and that Maric has a slew of good looking blond bastards out there, so that there shall always be some unclaimed Therin hotties out there in need of some serious sexytime.

I agree. Unless I'm told by the creator of the characters involved that Alistair is Fiona and Maric's son, I'll not believe it. There's absolutely no reason that Maric wouldn't find solace in the arms of a servant woman, as well as with other women. He seems to have been a widower by that time, so there's no reason for him to be chaste. As far as I know, he never took a vow of chastity.

The fact that Maric was a widower also gives credence to the thought that there might be more than one or two royal bastards running around, perhaps even in other countries. Eamon simply pushes Alistair forward as the last and only one in the Theirin line, because he knows he can manipulate him very easily, therefore becoming the true power behind the throne.

[SurelyForth]

There's absolutely no reason that Maric wouldn't find solace in the arms of a servant woman, as well as with other women. He seems to have been a widower by that time, so there's no reason for him to be chaste. As far as I know, he never took a vow of chastity.

If Maric was sleeping around with maids after Rowan had died and Alistair was a product of that, then there would be no need for the subterfuge or even for Maric to not acknowledge him (unless Alistair's mother also didn't want him involved with court).



For me, it comes down to this: The Maric who would bang a maid while Rowan was alive and then cart his son off to be sorta taken care of by Eamon does not fit with the Maric in the books who very much cares about Rowan and is genuinely concerned about the welfare of Fiona's baby but has his hands tied by Fiona's wishes.



That being said, I'm not convinced either way. I would prefer that Alistair be Fiona's son, but I admit it takes a lot of mental gymnastics to make that work given the game lore.

[maxernst]

Sandtigress wrote...

It may be, of course, that Eamon plotted all along to use Alistair for a power grab, or in case such a situation ever came to pass. Let the boy know his heritage but instill in him the fact that he's a commoner and not fit to rule blah blah blah so that he never has confidence in himself, so that when the time is right you put the boy on the throne and become his advisor, king in all but name.

This sounds quite plausible to me.  I don't think  Eamon actively plotted to make Alistair king, but knowing that Maric had only one legitimate heir, he had to be aware that Maric's bastard could come into play at some point.

[Phoenix Swordsinger]

Phoenix Swordsinger wrote...

Mr. Gaider, I have a question if you will. Is Alistair Fiona's son? In which case Goldanna isn't really his sister at all. Or is he still out there somewhere?



'Answer'...



And I'm going to leave this one to speculation, at least for now -- as I've mentioned elsewhere.



I guess this is my non-answer post.

[Gold Dragon]

Sabriana wrote...

Eamon simply pushes Alistair forward as the last and only one in the Theirin line, because he knows he can manipulate him very easily, therefore becoming the true power behind the throne.

And then the PC chooses to become Chancellor him/her self, which means that Eamon returns to Redcliffe, and the PC can also harden Alistair, making manipulation difficult.  Assuming that Alistair (or Male PC) either does the Ritual, or doesn't get Alistair killed....

[pudi0072000]

I'm inclined to think that Eamon isn't necessarily looking to use Alistair as his puppet while he rules from behind the scenes, so much as Eamon believes the Theirin's united the land and have ruled it for generations, and so long as there's someone of Theirin blood, they should be on the throne. But you know, he probably realized as an adviser, he'd have a bit of influence there, and that never hurts. Not a primary motivation, since he does step down if the Warden becomes Chancellor, but I'm sure it was on his mind.

[Addai]

I agree. There seem to be a lot of Eamon h8ters, but the fact is that he does not press his influence on Alistair if you are chancellor. He could easily insist that he stick around in Denerim as advisor, but instead he goes back to Redcliffe without complaint. I really think he has good things at heart. He just doesn't want to go back to the days when the concept of Ferelden almost disappeared.

[turcsika]

It is so much fun to read many usefulness things and to see many woman chatting about a gossip, like at the market!