379 réponses à ce sujet

[Yrkoon]

spernus wrote...

Shadowwot wrote...

That $200M is sales not income. OP is forgetting the 5 year development cycle with no money coming in - that's 5 years of rent, utilities, salaries, computer equipment, and other expenses.

BioWare's actual income for their development of Dragon Age Origins will be significantly lower than $200M.

Sure,but it didn't cost that much money either.It was said that for most of the development,10-12 people were working on DA.

Well, I don't know  what you mean by " for most of the development", but that 10-12 people number  can't be right.  Have you watched the End Credits?  The management staff *alone* is close to 3 dozen people, then you have a laundry list of voice-over actors, an entire staff devoted to the music soundtrack,   A whole company of people working on Marketing.  Then QA, then Graphics, And a different staff for each of the platforms.......

Modifié par Yrkoon, 12 février 2010 - 06:43 .

[Fexelea]

LOL at the account fail on sales not income. You mean income not profit.

[Red Frostraven]

metatheurgist wrote...

You know one has nothing to do with the other. How much money they've made on DAO doesn't influence how they set the price for DLC. It's business. They want as much money as they can get. If they can sell DLC at $5, they do so.

Fairness, "giving back to the fans", fan expectation is irrelevant. That's just not the world we live in.

If you think this is wrong, please join the revolution. I think we are overdue for one.

*Looks into the closet, behind the clothes, at a shiny piece of armor*

Any day now, any day :devil:

...
How long can they keep min-maxing profits from customers and call the customers "the market" and basicly tell customers to their faces, "sorry, you're not the market -- you're just a customer".
That's how you LOSE the customers, and how you lose the market.

Mainstreaming of a game series to maximize sales have ALWAYS led to demise, after the initial glory:
The market, the customers, lose faith.
Ironically, they lose faith the the game series and the developers, and not the publishers who ORDER the product to be made.

Rest in peace, Sonic
Rest in peace, Perfect Dark
Rest in peace, Rainbow Six
Rest in peace, Call of Duty
Rest in peace, Battlefield
Rest in peace, Neverwinter Nights (#1 was awesome, #2 was "Meh" -- and I'll not buy #3... Though I WOULD have if Bioware made it, but most people WOULDN'T know the difference which means that if EA wants it made it will not get more resources allocated than what is needed to make the fan-base buy it and be disappointed.)

I just HOPE all those game series fails miserably BECAUSE the publishers keep treating the customers that MADE THE TITLES A SUCCESS like dirt, wanting the most people POSSIBLE to BUY the game, ignoring what people think OF the game 3 months after release.
THEN there's the problem with mainstream reviewers beeing FORCED to give large games good rating only to stay on the good side of the publishers, so that they continue to get the demos for free, BEFORE release.

RAAAAAAAAAAAAGE D:

Seriously: YOU PUBLISHERS MAKE COMMUNISM LOOK LIKE ONE OF HISTORY'S GREATEST IDEAS!!!

I'd vote for STALIN if he'd stop the publishers from abusing customer unawareness to min-max profits and make games turn out as bad as they can get away with; 
I'M A GAMER!

Modifié par Red Frostraven, 12 février 2010 - 07:40 .

[kordz]

That's the name of the game. Learn to make money with the money you already have. Don't want to spend money on a 1 hour adventure? don't buy the game..or stay away from vegas hookers..

[Theinen83]

Miniature Figurines



That's how I feel about DLC. It's like miniature figurines. You know, there are some people, and not just sweet little old ladies, who collect these miniature figurines. They don't take their collection outside of their homes. They don't get online and brag about them. Chances are, if you didn't visit their homes regularly, you'd never know they were a collector. The companies who make these figurines create one figurine in a supremely large number. They then create another figurine in relatively small numbers, and sometimes, the "defect" somehow hits the market. These are worth considerably more. The company itself may only sell it for the same price, but there will undoubtedly be someone who doesn't even collect, will come across one and sell it on eBay for perhaps thousands.

Does that make them "wrong"? No, greedy perhaps, but not wrong. Because they're not ripping anyone off. They are not tricking them into thinking they're buying one thing, but giving them another. They are simply selling an item for the amount that it's worth to the buyer. That's all. No more. No less. If the collector thinks the figurine is overpriced, they don't buy it and keep going.

That's the business of supply and demand. Now, I could get into the costs of making this DLC like everyone else has, but that won't really prove a point since people will always rant about them making the money back and then some (silly me, I thought that was the point of good business). Instead, I'll approach the "short 1 hour worth of play time". That statement in itself is false. Can you honestly tell me you'll only play through DA:O once? I think not. Will you buy the DLC and play through it once, but not touch it on other playthroughs? That simply makes no sense. So that alone means it's not just 1 hour of play time. Next, how often do you use those items? I personally never get rid of the Starfang or Commander Warden armor set. Someone is always wearing it. Shale is a very staple member of my party, especially if my PC is a rogue. That also constitutes towards playtime from the DLC. You couldn't get it otherwise. Then there's the many different responses you'll look for from different party members about different things. It's not like "Whoops, 60mins... that's all you're getting from this DLC....ever. Thank you, come again".

Now that all being said, I'm a PS3 player. I still haven't even touched the RTO DLC. I'm admittedly disappointed at how long this is taking, and have honestly just written it off. I'm not even looking forward to it anymore, and after seeing the items, there's not many that I would use anyway. Will I still buy it when it comes out? Yes. Is it because I'm a Bioware fanboi? Pfft, I'm not a fanboi to anything. I'm interested in how Alistar will respond to returning and perhaps seeing Duncan's remains. I want to hear Wynne's lecture about how she wished she could have done more. I want to see if Morrigan makes fun of Alistar or comments that they all died because they were too weak. I have purposely avoided any and all story spoilers for this reason. If you've been waiting to play it, but have gone and read every single thing that happens and all the walkthroughs, then no, you more than likely won't enjoy it. It's like buying a brand new game and immediately looking for cheat codes. You lose out on the experience. That walkthrough could have been missing out on something. Maybe there was another choice you would've made for a different outcome. You never know.

So when it does finally his the PlayStation Store, I'll pay my 5 bucks and finally return to Ostagar for revenge. Does that make me crazy/stupid? Nah, I just want to get the most enjoyment out of my game, and there are probably many others like me. You still don't quite understand that? Go break that rare $2500 figurine that was given to you as a gift in front of a collector who would have paid more for it if only they had the money. See if they agree.

[Finiffa]

Red Frostraven wrote...
[Seriously: YOU PUBLISHERS MAKE COMMUNISM LOOK LIKE ONE OF HISTORY'S GREATEST IDEAS!!!

I'd vote for STALIN if he'd stop the publishers from abusing customer unawareness to min-max profits and make games turn out as bad as they can get away with; 
I'M A GAMER!

I'm just speechless at so much idiocy.....

[Kalfear]

Coldcall01 wrote...


Gee guys i know you are now part of EA and the bottom line is everything but seriously i am starting to feel very jaded about the DLC strategy.

I hear you.
I made a post elsewhere about expecting 1 hour for every dollar I spend but as is usualy on these forums, the pro Bioware rah rah rah kids pretty much attacked me immediately!
Amazing how you cant say anything remotely negative about anything Bioware does with out being outright attacked here!
I been around longer then most and dont recall when Bioware fans became so brain washed?

Anyways, Im probably going to start skipping Bioware DLCs. I love DA:O and really want to play its DLCs but they have to be worth it to justify the cost and $5.00/hour per customer is just corperate greed.
As it is, I refuse to buy any ME2 DLCs until they return the RPG to that franchise.

Its strange cause I was always a fan of th DLC concept but Bioware/EA just trying to be to greedy with it. To much flash, not enough substance.

[Coldcall01]

Kalfear wrote...

Coldcall01 wrote...


Gee guys i know you are now part of EA and the bottom line is everything but seriously i am starting to feel very jaded about the DLC strategy.

I hear you.
I made a post elsewhere about expecting 1 hour for every dollar I spend but as is usualy on these forums, the pro Bioware rah rah rah kids pretty much attacked me immediately!
Amazing how you cant say anything remotely negative about anything Bioware does with out being outright attacked here!
I been around longer then most and dont recall when Bioware fans became so brain washed?

Anyways, Im probably going to start skipping Bioware DLCs. I love DA:O and really want to play its DLCs but they have to be worth it to justify the cost and $5.00/hour per customer is just corperate greed.
As it is, I refuse to buy any ME2 DLCs until they return the RPG to that franchise.

Its strange cause I was always a fan of th DLC concept but Bioware/EA just trying to be to greedy with it. To much flash, not enough substance.

I agree, that just about how i feel over this DLC bs. I thought it was a good idea too until i realised that under the hood we are being ripped from a pro-rata comparison of the cost of the vanilla game.

Now some people will argue they dont measure value by in-game time, but i see no other way to compare the value of a one hour DLC unless its being compared to what the original game cost.

I've also noted that no-one on this thread has explained why the economy of scale, present in just about every other commercial transaction in human civilisation, appears to have gone totally AWOL when it comes to DLCs.

The fact is that only standing customers of DAO or ME2 would buy the DLCs since they are worthless without the vanilla game. Now in most indurstries the consumer is rewarded for being a customer by getting a better deal on the more they purchase.

Well not with EA/Bioware :-)

[Mordaedil]

Red Frostraven wrote...
Seriously: YOU PUBLISHERS MAKE COMMUNISM LOOK LIKE ONE OF HISTORY'S GREATEST IDEAS!!!

I'd vote for STALIN if he'd stop the publishers from abusing customer unawareness to min-max profits and make games turn out as bad as they can get away with; 
I'M A GAMER!

But... Communism is one of histories greatest and most noble concepts.

The problem is execution and human greed. So... A factual comparison is that publishers make CAPITALISM look like one of histories greatest ideas.

Also, you don't vote for emperors, silly.

[Yrkoon]

Kalfear wrote...

Amazing how you cant say anything remotely negative about anything Bioware does with out being outright attacked here!.

Well, maybe YOU can't.  But I can.  And so can others.   In my 8 1/2 years on the bioware forums, I've spouted reams upon reams of  negativity  (remote and direct) about bioware, when they did something I disagreed with.    And most of the time I haven't gotten attacked.

Then again, I typically  employ  intelligent arguments.  Not  kiddy-level   troll posts.    

Modifié par Yrkoon, 12 février 2010 - 11:09 .

[linkrulesx10]

I bought DLC and I do not regret it.



Dragon age is a great game, this adds a few more features that I enjoy and I think is worth it.

It costs me 5$ for a one hour adventure

A movie ticket costs me like 14 dollers for 1.5-2 hour movie



The DLC is cheaper then a movie, and guess what it is one hours content I can do more then once with each character.



I have bought the DLC do not regret it and do not see it as a rip off if you dont like it don't buy it.

[RetrOldSchool]

Coldcall01 wrote...

I agree, that just about how i feel over this DLC bs. I thought it was a good idea too until i realised that under the hood we are being ripped from a pro-rata comparison of the cost of the vanilla game.

Now some people will argue they dont measure value by in-game time, but i see no other way to compare the value of a one hour DLC unless its being compared to what the original game cost.

I've also noted that no-one on this thread has explained why the economy of scale, present in just about every other commercial transaction in human civilisation, appears to have gone totally AWOL when it comes to DLCs.

The fact is that only standing customers of DAO or ME2 would buy the DLCs since they are worthless without the vanilla game. Now in most indurstries the consumer is rewarded for being a customer by getting a better deal on the more they purchase.

Well not with EA/Bioware :-)

The consumer is in fact rewarded, if we buy the games new we get some DLC for free that you have to pay for if you buy it used. Also gamers who played the free online flash game DA:J a bit recieved even more free items.

When it comes to the full game-time vs DLC time, that logic is pretty confusing.
Riddle me this: If a player buys the CE version for $100 and runs through the game in 20 hours, does that mean that he should pay $5 for 1 hour? And in that case, if the same player decides to take his time with RtO and finish the DLC in 1.5 hours, should he then pay $7.5?
In addition if another player buys the game for $60 regular edition and plays it mutliple times in 200 hours, should that player only pay $0.3?

In addition, IF we say that we decide that 1 hour of DLC should be priced $1 ( I don't think anyone would argue that it would be too much) then would that mean that the game for the 2nd player should be priced $200?

Another problem with that logic is that if we can compare game time to DLC-time, then we end up in a situation where the games that give the most, like DA:O, which is a long game with good replayability therefore should have cheaper DLC than a short game like Uncharted 2? That would punish developers who make long games with lots of incentive to replay the games, while developers of short games would benifit from it.

At the end of the day this whole discussion is about personal opinion of value. Nobody can make a factual objective statement to prove that the fans who buy the DLC is being ripped off. "You guys are blind, BW/EA is ripping you off, 'cause they sold you a 100 hour game for $60 and charge $5 for 1 hour DLC" that statement means that everyone who buy a game for $60 that is less than 100 hours is also ripped off, which everyone knows isn't true.

For me, RtO was well worth 400 MSPoints, but I won't try to convince other people that it's a great deal, because another gamer might feel the other way around.

[wanderon]

Disclaimer: I have read nothing in this thread but the OP and to be sure I barely skimmed that having already had more than my fill of people whining about the cost of DLC trotting out the same cheap ass arguments day after day.

1)The whole minimizing of the content itself just pisses me off. This is a one hour DLC ONLY to a gamer who approaches it as a FPS type run through wham bam thankee mam run right through the middle kill the bad guys you run into don't explore anything thats not totally essential and never play it again.

I spent over four hours with one party and just this morning spent the better part of two hours just getting to the bridge. I have owned it for a couple weeks and already have well over a dozen hours gameplay and have only taken 4 partys there so far and one is only half way through!

2) the whole concept that $5. is too much to pay for such a quality product. Have any of you whiners ever bothered to look at the credits for RTO and taken a gander at the number of people that were involved in this project?

3)Ever considered how many man hours went into putting this product together if that many people were involved?

4)Ever considered the cost of the equipment, resources maintenence and upkeep that just goes into making it available fo you to d/l?

5)Ever considered anything other than the fact that you seem to think it worth even less than one hours minimum wages for one person anywhere in the US?

Too expensive? Don't buy it but for gods sake quit whining about it!

[worksa8]

The DLC prices I can tolerate I suppose...(They should make the DLC a ltitle longer though, but I suppose we can't expect Oblivion/fallout quality DLC from every one)

Not sure what to think of what EA is doing there though...I mean $10 for the DLC things that came new with the game? That makes sense I guess- I think people just don't like being herded by EA is all.

Modifié par worksa8, 12 février 2010 - 03:57 .

[Legbiter]

Coldcall01 wrote...


What is going on? Once the 4 million DAO sales mark is hit you wil have earned approx $200million in revenues just on DAO. I dont begrudge you that as it deserves commercial success but the extra length of greed involved in charging such ludircous amounts for nothing DLCs and now the alleged EA plans to start stiching up the second hand games market is just too much to take.

Sorry, I missed the part where you were forced to buy DA DLCs. It must be in here somewhere because otherwise you'd just be left with a pointless whinge.  

*Edit*

And I sincerly hope that Bioware makes a metric frackton of money off of DA, enough in fact for David Gaider & co. to start each day by doing a line of Bolivian marching powder off a high-class hooker's ass in fact. That means they'll continue to make excellent RPGs.

Modifié par Legbiter, 12 février 2010 - 04:06 .

[worksa8]

Well I've seen people say that a few times, but you could consider the fact that maybe they want the DLC for a more fair price? You might be happy with the pricing, but I guess not everyone else is going to be.

[Legbiter]

worksa8 wrote...

Well I've seen people say that a few times, but you could consider the fact that maybe they want the DLC for a more fair price? You might be happy with the pricing, but I guess not everyone else is going to be.

People shouldn't buy luxury item goods like computer games if price is the issue.

[BGGBBG]

worksa8 wrote...

Well I've seen people say that a few times, but you could consider the fact that maybe they want the DLC for a more fair price? You might be happy with the pricing, but I guess not everyone else is going to be.

If you don't like the price, don't buy the product it's that simple.  Odds are, after there are a few pieces of content available, Bioware will release an upgrade package that will include all of them at a discount. They did it for NWN, so there's no reason not to expect it from DA.

That said, five dollars for content that involves voice actors is pretty darn reasonable.  I'm certain Steve Valentine's services don't come cheaply, and Susan Boyd is probably not much less expensive...not to mention recording engineers and the like.

[worksa8]

I'm fine with the prices, I already have everything so far myself- but still, if they want it for cheaper they are allowed to. Just because you think the price is fair, that doesn't mean they have to. They want the dlc for a cheaper price- or at least longer DLC.

I bought the DLC, but Microsoft makes you get points in bulk, so It cost me almost $10

My gripe is more with microsoft then with bioware. I mean the DLC imo seems fairly priced, still wish it was longer, but I agree with the price.

Thinking about Oblivion and Fallout, the DLC together would cost like as much as a game, but it was several hours long and added tons of new things. This is much smaller dlc, and is really just a few bucks...seems appropriate.

[worksa8]

Legbiter wrote...
People shouldn't buy luxury item goods like computer games if price is the issue.

Just because you CAN buy sometihng, that doesn't mean you have to agree with it's price.

[Jace Surana]

Legbiter wrote...

Coldcall01 wrote...


What is going on? Once the 4 million DAO sales mark is hit you wil have earned approx $200million in revenues just on DAO. I dont begrudge you that as it deserves commercial success but the extra length of greed involved in charging such ludircous amounts for nothing DLCs and now the alleged EA plans to start stiching up the second hand games market is just too much to take.

Sorry, I missed the part where you were forced to buy DA DLCs. It must be in here somewhere because otherwise you'd just be left with a pointless whinge.  

*Edit*

And I sincerly hope that Bioware makes a metric frackton of money off of DA, enough in fact for David Gaider & co. to start each day by doing a line of Bolivian marching powder off a high-class hooker's ass in fact. That means they'll continue to make excellent RPGs.

Amen to that!

People have to understand that the richer Bioware gets off of this RPG, the more they understand that gamers truly care for it and want more and the more they'll be able to afford to make a SEQUEL! I don't care if these jokers are making enough cash to eat caviar off the bellies of jewel-wearing virgin princesses, I'll pay the $5 if they'll keep the content coming.

Modifié par Jace Surana, 12 février 2010 - 05:03 .

[worksa8]

Haha yeah I suppose that's a silver lining right there...

I'm hoping for more content as well =3

[Bibdy]

"I want people to make awesome games for me to purchase, but I don't want them to make money doing it. That's just greedy."

[AlanC9]

People have already given Red Frostraven enough of a pounding. I just want to ask a question:

Red Frostraven wrote...

How long can they keep min-maxing profits from customers and call the customers "the market" and basicly tell customers to their faces, "sorry, you're not the market -- you're just a customer".
That's how you LOSE the customers, and how you lose the market.

Mainstreaming of a game series to maximize sales have ALWAYS led to demise, after the initial glory:
The market, the customers, lose faith


Rest in peace, Neverwinter Nights (#1 was awesome, #2 was "Meh" -- and I'll not buy #3

In what sense was NWN2 "mainstreamed"?

[Rictras Shard]

Red Frostraven wrote...
Mainstreaming of a game series to maximize sales have ALWAYS led to demise, after the initial glory:

Making a game that only appeals to a small, niche audience is clearly the route to great financial success.