379 réponses à ce sujet

[Kalfear]

Yrkoon wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

Amazing how you cant say anything remotely negative about anything Bioware does with out being outright attacked here!.

Well, maybe YOU can't.  But I can.  And so can others.   In my 8 1/2 years on the bioware forums, I've spouted reams upon reams of  negativity  (remote and direct) about bioware, when they did something I disagreed with.    And most of the time I haven't gotten attacked.

Then again, I typically  employ  intelligent arguments.  Not  kiddy-level   troll posts.    

Like this one?

Oh sorry, you were trying to be intelligent again!!!

So sorry!

Amazing how I been here since day 1 and I always meet these so called vets that I never heard of? LOL, guess that explains how/why no one ever responded to their posts before! Yrkoon who???
NM, doesnt matter

[Yrkoon]

Kalfear wrote...


Like this one?

Oh sorry, you were trying to be intelligent again!!!

So sorry!

Oh how witty!!

The point remains.   There's a *huge* difference between criticizing  some action of Bioware's via rational, intelligent debating, vs. simply trolling and whining.  The latter will see you attacked.  (people typically employ fire against trolls)  The former will see... debate.

Kalfear wrote...

Amazing how I been here since day 1 and I always meet these so called vets that I never heard of? LOL, guess that explains how/why no one ever responded to their posts before! Yrkoon who???
NM, doesnt matter 

You haven't heard of me?   I'm crushed.  Absolutely Crushed.

Here's a Post of mine from 2001.  Top of the page, too, so it's easy to find.  Lets see one of your earlier posts...

Edit:  Oh!  Nevermind.  I found your Profile.   Join date: 2003.  Day one, my ass

Modifié par Yrkoon, 12 février 2010 - 08:11 .

[WhyIsThisNecessary]

When was a volunteer in an Oxfam store, some women came into the store and was complaining bitterly about "disgraceful" prices such as £4 and £3 for second hand goods which would cost over £40, new, in the shops. Apparently, if someone wears a garment before you it decreases the value by a factor of 10 or more.



I see this same alien mindset about money in those who complain about £3.50/$5 being a 'ridiculous' price for one hour of entertainment. I mean, do you buy media other than games at any point?



I think these people are time travelers from the 1820s who've forgotten to take into account inflation.

[Dahelia]

WhyIsThisNecessary wrote...

When was a volunteer in an Oxfam store, some women came into the store and was complaining bitterly about "disgraceful" prices such as £4 and £3 for second hand goods which would cost over £40, new, in the shops. Apparently, if someone wears a garment before you it decreases the value by a factor of 10 or more.

I see this same alien mindset about money in those who complain about £3.50/$5 being a 'ridiculous' price for one hour of entertainment. I mean, do you buy media other than games at any point?

I think these people are time travelers from the 1820s who've forgotten to take into account inflation.

I see what you are saying, I guess they don't realize, and no I am not going to use the hamburger type thing at 5 bucks and doesn't even last you an hour, why don't we take another media into example; movies, go to the movie threatre and you pay about 7 bucks for an hour or hour and half movie, you pay 20 bucks to get it on DVD and people are sitting here complaining about 5 bucks. Pathetic I say.

[joey_mork84]

To the OP: This has been said over and over again in this thread in many different ways but.. $5 is not a lot of money. It may seem like it is a lot with the economy the way it is, but really its not. I plan on buying ever bit of DLC I can get my hands on BECAUSE it is only $5-$15. That's not a lot of money to most people, ESPECIALLY for what you get. You have a computer, internet connection, and DA:O.. Assuming these are all legitimate and not pirated/stolen/gifts or other such things that would make them free to you. So assuming you have all these things and had the money to pay for them, you can actually afford the DLC with no problem.. So what's the argument here? What else are you planning on spending those 2,000 or so points on, if not DLC? Nothing? Just let them sit there until you forget about them or something? THAT seems like a waste of money to me. Just my opinion...

[WhyIsThisNecessary]

If you even think about it for more than second, you will see that trying to find a reasonably price for something based on duration is completely ridiculous.

Compare the value of:

a) a 300 page book (£7.99)
a 900 page book (£9.99) (also consider hardback versions)
d) a 50 minute album (£12)
e) a DVD of a 2 hour movie (£14)
f) a travel chess set (£7.99)
g) a wooden chess set (£14.99)
h) a pack of cards (£1.99)

in terms of money spent per hour of entertainment and let us know how you get on.

Modifié par WhyIsThisNecessary, 12 février 2010 - 08:28 .

[Yrkoon]

WhyIsThisNecessary wrote...

If you even think about it for more than second, you will see that trying to find a reasonably price for something based on duration is completely ridiculous.

Compare the value of:

a) a 300 page book (£7.99)
a 900 page book (£9.99) (also consider hardback versions)
d) a 50 minute album (£12)
e) a DVD of a 2 hour movie (£14)
f) a travel chess set (£7.99)
g) a wooden chess set (£14.99)
h) a pack of cards (£1.99)

in terms of money spent per hour of entertainment and let us know how you get on.

^this is a good point too.

Unless your play-style is  seek-and-destroy, then move on to something else, these DLCs are NOT "one shot" deals.  Once you pay for them and download them,  They're yours.   they'll be there for you to re-play as many times as you want.

So you could end up getting several dozens of hours of entertainment for your 5 bucks.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 12 février 2010 - 08:59 .

[JKJEDIKNIGHT]

Why is this a surprise when they are going to charge $40.00 for an expansion pack that they keep hiding the approximate play time on? Could it be they don't want us to know they're charging $40 for a 7 hour trip? This seems to be the growing trend in american merchandising these days. Take Del Ray (Book Company). They make the Star Wars Expanded Universe books. They are currently in the middle of a 9 book series that all the books are being released hard cover. And they BARELY run over 300 pages. The previous series they did, was a 9 book series with 3 hard covers, the series before that, 3 book series, all paperback, and the previous on that was a 19 I think and it had 5 hardcover, the rest paperback. No real reason to do this, unless you're just trying to screw your customer and increase sales. It should also be noted that all the hard covers in those previous series ran easily 500 pages each. Maybe this is why America is getting outsource ALL over the world. We dick our people over and then send millions of dollars over seas to help other countries, all while we have more debt than the rest of the world combined. God bless america people.

[the_one_54321]

I agree with the OP.



Cost vs Benefit is significantly more complicated than $ vs hours.



Comparing an RPG to anything except another RPG gives inaccurate results.

[Dahelia]

the_one_54321 wrote...

I agree with the OP.

Cost vs Benefit is significantly more complicated than $ vs hours.

Comparing an RPG to anything except another RPG gives inaccurate results.

Bull...any form of entertainment can be compared to any other form of entertainment that includes comparing book, movies, music to video games.

[the_one_54321]

Dahelia wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
I agree with the OP.

Cost vs Benefit is significantly more complicated than $ vs hours.

Comparing an RPG to anything except another RPG gives inaccurate results.

Bull...any form of entertainment can be compared to any other form of entertainment that includes comparing book, movies, music to video games.

That doesn't mean the reslts will be worth anything. Comparisons are made within individual markets. Outside markets are an influence only in how they provide alternatives.

[Dahelia]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Dahelia wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
I agree with the OP.

Cost vs Benefit is significantly more complicated than $ vs hours.

Comparing an RPG to anything except another RPG gives inaccurate results.

Bull...any form of entertainment can be compared to any other form of entertainment that includes comparing book, movies, music to video games.

That doesn't mean the reslts will be worth anything. Comparisons are made within individual markets. Outside markets are an influence only in how they provide alternatives.

So you are saying you cannot compare a movie you go to see at the threatre as the same as the DLC you buy? Please, you are entertaining yourself, aren't you? You are enjoying yourself, correct? They are the same.

[the_one_54321]

Dahelia wrote...
So you are saying you cannot compare a movie you go to see at the threatre as the same as the DLC you buy? Please, you are entertaining yourself, aren't you? You are enjoying yourself, correct? They are the same.

You're comparing for the sake of determining appropriate market cost. Quite obviously, they are not the same at all. This is very common, very horrible mistake around here. As often as it is specifically pointed out, it's incredible the way no one can make the connection that the radical difference in $ vs volume is actually a result of the fact that it's an impropper comparison.

[Dahelia]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Dahelia wrote...
So you are saying you cannot compare a movie you go to see at the threatre as the same as the DLC you buy? Please, you are entertaining yourself, aren't you? You are enjoying yourself, correct? They are the same.

You're comparing for the sake of determining appropriate market cost. Quite obviously, they are not the same at all. This is very common, very horrible mistake around here. As often as it is specifically pointed out, it's incredible the way no one can make the connection that the radical difference in $ vs volume is actually a result of the fact that it's an impropper comparison.

Fine...let's go into the "games" part since entertainment is not good enough for you. People here complaining about a 5 dollar DLC are the same people who would pay 25 dollars for a transfer, character name change, race change, sex change, etc on World of Warcraft, the same people who bought the 300+ MSP worth of FABLE 2, Map Packs for COD, and everything else but nooo they gotta complain about a DLC that 5 dollars and over an hour long. It is PATHETIC. A COD Map Pack does 800 MSP, 800 MSP is about 10 dollars...

[the_one_54321]

Dahelia wrote...
Fine...let's go into the "games" part since entertainment is not good enough for you. People here complaining about a 5 dollar DLC are the same people who would pay 25 dollars for a transfer, character name change, race change, sex change, etc on World of Warcraft, the same people who bought the 300+ MSP worth of FABLE 2, Map Packs for COD, and everything else but nooo they gotta complain about a DLC that 5 dollars and over an hour long. It is PATHETIC. A COD Map Pack does 800 MSP, 800 MSP is about 10 dollars...

Um, wrong. I didn't do any of those things. I think paying $15/month for a game that centers around repitition is idiotic. All of those other things are pretty ridiculously priced as well.

[Rictras Shard]

the_one_54321 wrote...

You're comparing for the sake of determining appropriate market cost. Quite obviously, they are not the same at all. This is very common, very horrible mistake around here. As often as it is specifically pointed out, it's incredible the way no one can make the connection that the radical difference in $ vs volume is actually a result of the fact that it's an impropper comparison.

Your entertainment dollar is the same, no matter what form of entertainment on which you spend it. If we wish to compare the amount of entertainment time our money gets us for a game in comparison to a movie, or any other type, then our comparison is perfectly valid.

[Dahelia]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Dahelia wrote...
Fine...let's go into the "games" part since entertainment is not good enough for you. People here complaining about a 5 dollar DLC are the same people who would pay 25 dollars for a transfer, character name change, race change, sex change, etc on World of Warcraft, the same people who bought the 300+ MSP worth of FABLE 2, Map Packs for COD, and everything else but nooo they gotta complain about a DLC that 5 dollars and over an hour long. It is PATHETIC. A COD Map Pack does 800 MSP, 800 MSP is about 10 dollars...

Um, wrong. I didn't do any of those things. I think paying $15/month for a game that centers around repitition is idiotic. All of those other things are pretty ridiculously priced as well.

As many of us have said before, don't like the price, don't like it, don't buy it. No one  forces you to do any of the sort.

[the_one_54321]

Rictras Shard wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
You're comparing for the sake of determining appropriate market cost. Quite obviously, they are not the same at all. This is very common, very horrible mistake around here. As often as it is specifically pointed out, it's incredible the way no one can make the connection that the radical difference in $ vs volume is actually a result of the fact that it's an impropper comparison.

Your entertainment dollar is the same, no matter what form of entertainment on which you spend it. If we wish to compare the amount of entertainment time our money gets us for a game in comparison to a movie, or any other type, then our comparison is perfectly valid.

The value of the dollar is the same. The value of the entertainment is not. That is the only thing that these comparisons illustrate: that the different forms of entertainment are not the worth the same.

Dahelia wrote...
As many of us have said before, don't like
the price, don't like it, don't buy it. No one  forces you to do any of
the sort.

Well, duh. That's why I didn't buy it. Instead, I let them know that I didn't buy it, and why I didn't buy it.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 12 février 2010 - 10:21 .

[Dahelia]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Rictras Shard wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
You're comparing for the sake of determining appropriate market cost. Quite obviously, they are not the same at all. This is very common, very horrible mistake around here. As often as it is specifically pointed out, it's incredible the way no one can make the connection that the radical difference in $ vs volume is actually a result of the fact that it's an impropper comparison.

Your entertainment dollar is the same, no matter what form of entertainment on which you spend it. If we wish to compare the amount of entertainment time our money gets us for a game in comparison to a movie, or any other type, then our comparison is perfectly valid.

The value of the dollar is the same. The value of the entertainment is not. That is the only thing that these comparisons illustrate: that the different forms of entertainment are not the worth the same.

Dahelia wrote...
As many of us have said before, don't like
the price, don't like it, don't buy it. No one  forces you to do any of
the sort.

Well, duh. That's why I didn't buy it. Instead, I let them know that I didn't buy it, and why I didn't buy it.

And someone bought it in your place, till no one buys DLC, there will be no price drop ever. Also, you are saying a Movie and a Game are not the same???

[the_one_54321]

Dahelia wrote...
Also, you are saying a Movie and a Game are not the same???

Are you trying to say that movies and video games are the same thing?

[Dahelia]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Dahelia wrote...
Also, you are saying a Movie and a Game are not the same???

Are you trying to say that movies and video games are the same thing?

Absolutely. They are entertaining. You are whether, seeing it or playing it, living the life you are watching on the screen as your own, you feel the anger, you feel the fright, you feel everything they do. If not, you need to get your imagination in check. Just like a book, you are living the life of the character in the book, you can relate. Games, Books, and Movies are all the same and the same entertainment.

Modifié par Dahelia, 12 février 2010 - 10:29 .

[the_one_54321]

Dahelia wrote...
Absolutely. They are entertaining, you are whether seeing it or playing it, living the life you are watching on the screen as your own, you feel the anger, you feel the fright, you feel everything they do. If not, you need to get your imagination in check. Just like a book, you are living the life of the character in the book, you can relate. Games, Books, and Movies are all the same and the same entertainment.

Comparing the market price of one to the market price of the other shows quite clearly that they are quite different.

[ladydesire]

Coldcall01 wrote...

I've also noted that no-one on this thread has explained why the economy of scale, present in just about every other commercial transaction in human civilisation, appears to have gone totally AWOL when it comes to DLCs.

Economy of scale is present in DLC as well, it's just not to the same scale as the base game. Why do you expect Bioware to charge next to nothing for something that takes as long to make as any of the individual quests in DA? They still have to pay the people that make the DLC the same amount per hour whether the DLC is one hour long or 3 hours long. In case it's not clear, the DLC is a short Expansion, and has most of the same costs associated with it which means that those things have to be done no matter what.

The fact is that only standing customers of DAO or ME2 would buy the DLCs since they are worthless without the vanilla game. Now in most indurstries the consumer is rewarded for being a customer by getting a better deal on the more they purchase.

Well not with EA/Bioware :-)

If I had played Oblivion longer than a few days, I probably wouldn't have bothered buying the DLC for it, as it didn't seem all that worth the cost to me. To me, something needs to fit into the story, like Return to Ostagar or Warden's Keep, or I won't buy it (I never did get the second Mass Effect DLC for that reason). Oh well, if people keep insisting that $5 is too much, I guess Bioware can decide not to make any more DLC.

Modifié par ladydesire, 12 février 2010 - 10:50 .

[Dahelia]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Dahelia wrote...
Absolutely. They are entertaining, you are whether seeing it or playing it, living the life you are watching on the screen as your own, you feel the anger, you feel the fright, you feel everything they do. If not, you need to get your imagination in check. Just like a book, you are living the life of the character in the book, you can relate. Games, Books, and Movies are all the same and the same entertainment.

Comparing the market price of one to the market price of the other shows quite clearly that they are quite different.

They aren't. The same people who play video games are the same people who go out and see a movie or pick up a book and read it especially where I come from, they are entertainment and most movies are fantasy movies, they aren't real, they are to portray something you can close your eyes and picture yourself doing, along with a book. They are the same exact thing, the same exact form of entertainment for MANY MANY people.

[the_one_54321]

Dahelia wrote...
They aren't. The same people who play video games are the same people who go out and see a movie or pick up a book and read it especially where I come from, they are entertainment and most movies are fantasy movies, they aren't real, they are to portray something you can close your eyes and picture yourself doing, along with a book. They are the same exact thing, the same exact form of entertainment for MANY MANY people.

Yet they cost dramaticaly different prices per volume. The point is not that they offer dramatically different kinds of entertainment. The point is that what they are worth is based on market perceptions. And market perception has historically dictated that they are very different things. You cannot take two market items, that command vastly different behaviors within the entertainment market, and treat them as though their cost structures are compatable. They are not compatable.