103 réponses à ce sujet

[Exile Isan]

STG wrote...
Tali did get both of her squads killed. If Tali fans can't see that, then they're completely blind.

Well, they do say love is blind.

[Aedan_Cousland]

STG wrote...

drwells123 wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

No, I mean Miranda says something along the lines of "Really, Shepard? She got both of the squads that she led killed." Stupid double pronouns.

Ouch. She made herself about 80 million mortal enemies (i.e. Tali fans) with that line.

Tali did get both of her squads killed. If Tali fans can't see that, then they're completely blind.

Miranda also isn't the only one to mention it. If Tali is brought along to fight the Shadow Broker, the SM mocks Liara's choice in companions by saing, "I'm suprised you brought the Quarian, T'soni. Her supposed leadership skills on Haelstron got most of her team killed." Tali is a great engineer but not a leader. Like Zaeed she's better off following orders than giving them.
 
Note that Tali is the only character that the Shadow Broker mocks in this way. He comments on whichever character you bring along with Liara, but the rest he either is impressed by or gloats at the oppurtunity you've presented him with. (i.e., collecting on Garrus' bounty) With Tali you just get a, "Really, Liara?! Why'd you bring her?"

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 02 février 2011 - 06:29 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Exile Isan wrote...

STG wrote...
Tali did get both of her squads killed. If Tali fans can't see that, then they're completely blind.

Well, they do say love is blind.

Actually, many of them do. Which is why you'll see them say she would make a bad Admiral.

I agree with that and for about 12 playthroughs she was my sole LI. I went back and made a romanceless ME1 game so that I could romance her in ME2.

[Exile Isan]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...
Actually, many of them do. Which is why you'll see them say she would make a bad Admiral.

  I know I was just making a joke. I love Tali but I also know that she's not a great leader.

[ADLegend21]

I switch up my fire team leaders, but I ALWAYS Choose Miranda for the first fire team because she gets the job done no matter what and she's got more experience leading teams than anyone on the Normandy whose last name isn't Shepard as someone else saidshe gets teh new weapons on the normandy. She also knows everyone's strengths and weaknesses and her passive skill is an obvious "Hey, good leader here, her power helps the entire squad!!" Tali, Legion, and Kasumi haven't gotten rockets to the face sine my second playthrough when I picked Zaeed. (terrible decision in hindsight) her reactions are incredibly funny, especially Tali's XD

[GodWood]

ADLegend21 wrote...
I switch up my fire team leaders, but I ALWAYS Choose Miranda for the first fire team because she gets the job done no matter what and she's got more experience leading teams than anyone on the Normandy whose last name isn't Shepard

Don't know where you're pulling that from.
No where in the game is it said Miranda has even lead a team (unless you include medical team?) let alone stated she's good at it.
There is however, evidence to suggest that none of your companions like her and nor do they trust her.

Honestly, the only real reason I can think of as to why she's a potential fire team leader is that Bioware needed her alive to give Shepard advice along the Suicide Mission (hence why you can only kill her at the end)

Modifié par GodWood, 02 février 2011 - 06:58 .

[ADLegend21]

GodWood wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...
I switch up my fire team leaders, but I ALWAYS Choose Miranda for the first fire team because she gets the job done no matter what and she's got more experience leading teams than anyone on the Normandy whose last name isn't Shepard

Don't know where you're pulling that from.
No where in the game is it said Miranda has even lead a team (unless you include medical team?) let alone stated she's good at it.
There is however, evidence to suggest that none of your companions like her and nor do they trust her.

Honestly, the only real reason I can think of as to why she's a potential fire team leader is that Bioware needed her alive to give Shepard advice along the Suicide Mission (hence why you can only kill her at the end)

when you talk to her she says somehting along the lines of "I'm just given resources and told to get the job done" and she talks about leading cerberus teams aswell,I don't have all her dialouge in front of me so i can't give specific chats or anything.

contrary to that "evidence" isher getting everyone through alive both times since she knows the squad like the back of her hand and, in the part of my post you cut out, one of the evolutions of her passive skill is called "Cerberus tactician" if that doesn't scream fire team leader, then nothing does

[Breakdown Boy]

GodWood wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...
I switch up my fire team leaders, but I ALWAYS Choose Miranda for the first fire team because she gets the job done no matter what and she's got more experience leading teams than anyone on the Normandy whose last name isn't Shepard

Don't know where you're pulling that from.
No where in the game is it said Miranda has even lead a team (unless you include medical team?) let alone stated she's good at it.
There is however, evidence to suggest that none of your companions like her and nor do they trust her.

Honestly, the only real reason I can think of as to why she's a potential fire team leader is that Bioware needed her alive to give Shepard advice along the Suicide Mission (hence why you can only kill her at the end)

Maybe you should read the little summary of the squad members when you choose specialists on the SM. It states that Miranda is good leader, she is even older than Shepard and has been with Cerberus from a young age, most likely has the most ecperience on the ship (excluding Samara). Plus she is the XO (officialy) and so I would be pissed too if someone else was chosen. And add to this the fact that all her previous missions would be deemed classified by Cerberus so off course you would not know anything about her combat experience. 

[Oblivious]

Miranda has given good advice for the vast majority of the game, whether it be recruiting Mordin ASAP, waiting before getting the Reaper IFF in order to build the team, going after the Collectors when they attack your crew, or even her choices in the SM. The only time I think she made a genuinely bad choice was when picking the biotic specialist, and even that is arguable. "In theory any biotic can do it", in fact any biotic does do it, it's just that, with the exception of Jack and Samara, none of them have the energy for that final push before heading through the door. I think it was also Miranda's idea to send an escort to protect your crew on the journey back.

[CC-Tron]

Oblivious wrote...

I think it was also Miranda's idea to send an escort to protect your crew on the journey back.

No. Miranda said they couldn't afford to go back with the crew. Shepard then has the option of ignoring her and sending an escort. Miranda's decision was definitely a bad call especially if Shepard was hauling ass to the Collector base to save the crew. It would have made rescuing the crew pointless if they are then sent into a war zone unarmed.

[Breakdown Boy]

CC-Tron wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

I think it was also Miranda's idea to send an escort to protect your crew on the journey back.

No. Miranda said they couldn't afford to go back with the crew. Shepard then has the option of ignoring her and sending an escort. Miranda's decision was definitely a bad call especially if Shepard was hauling ass to the Collector base to save the crew. It would have made rescuing the crew pointless if they are then sent into a war zone unarmed.

She just states the obvious; can't go back. Wasting the opportunity to destroy the collector threat (killed hundreds of thousands of people) to make sure they save their hand full of crew members?

"Complete the mission, no matter the cost!" Shepard from ME2 launch trailer.

[CC-Tron]

Breakdown Boy wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

I think it was also Miranda's idea to send an escort to protect your crew on the journey back.

No. Miranda said they couldn't afford to go back with the crew. Shepard then has the option of ignoring her and sending an escort. Miranda's decision was definitely a bad call especially if Shepard was hauling ass to the Collector base to save the crew. It would have made rescuing the crew pointless if they are then sent into a war zone unarmed.

She just states the obvious; can't go back. Wasting the opportunity to destroy the collector threat (killed hundreds of thousands of people) to make sure they save their hand full of crew members?

"Complete the mission, no matter the cost!" Shepard from ME2 launch trailer.

Right. Why state the obvious? No one was going to send the whole squad back with the crew.

[Breakdown Boy]

Hindsight is 20/20. If you want to nitpick over an arguably 'wrong' line delivered in most important mission in human race's history then I guess that's your choice.



Anyway, make up your mind. Was it a wrong choice or an obviously correct one?

[TuringPoint]

I didn't mistake her comments as ****y.  Just... overly neutral?  Although it does suggest something about her personality that she says what she does about Samara. 

[CC-Tron]

Breakdown Boy wrote...

Hindsight is 20/20. If you want to nitpick over an arguably 'wrong' line delivered in most important mission in human race's history then I guess that's your choice.

Anyway, make up your mind. Was it a wrong choice or an obviously correct one?

It's not hindsight for me at least. I ignored her during the first play through and sent someone back with the crew.

Given those 2 choices, I would say her decision was wrong not obviously correct. Shepard's reason for going to the collector base (at least as a partial paragon) is to save the crew and destroy the base. Miranda's suggestion would have made saving the crew pointless.

[Breakdown Boy]

CC-Tron wrote...

Breakdown Boy wrote...

Hindsight is 20/20. If you want to nitpick over an arguably 'wrong' line delivered in most important mission in human race's history then I guess that's your choice.

Anyway, make up your mind. Was it a wrong choice or an obviously correct one?

It's not hindsight for me at least. I ignored her during the first play through and sent someone back with the crew.

Given those 2 choices, I would say her decision was wrong not obviously correct. Shepard's reason for going to the collector base (at least as a partial paragon) is to save the crew and destroy the base. Miranda's suggestion would have made saving the crew pointless.

Let's look at her wording again. "We can't go back Shepard." So sending someone back is Shepard's idea, but she does not go against that either. There are three choices.

Not real game choices.

1. Pause the mission to escort the crew back to the ship.
2. Letting crew fight their own path back.
3. Sending one squad member wit hthe crew back to the ship.

Miranda only makes it clear that number one is not an option as that would put the entire mission at risk. See no mistake in the statement at all. Sometimes you need to state the obvious, especially in stressfull situations and especially if you are playing a super paragon who might lean towards choice number 1.  

[Wulfram]

STG wrote...

Tali did get both of her squads killed. If Tali fans can't see that, then they're completely blind.

Shepard potentially got her unit wiped out on Akuze, lost Jenkins on Eden Prime, lost Wrex + Ash/Kaiden + the Salarians on Virmire and then got the Normandy destroyed. 

No wonder everyone thinks it's a suicide mission.

[Zing Freelancer]

What about Mordin as team leader?

[naledgeborn]

I think Miranda's job on the SM is to boost Shep's stats and to get caught by Shep when Human Reapernator bites the dust. That said, Garrus is the obvious choice for Fire/Distraction Team Lead. Miranda and Garrus not getting along is just racial tension. He might be Shep's best friend and protege but he's just another Turian merc to her and Cerberus.

[Rune-Chan]

mjwoltsknar wrote...

i found it kind of obnoxious how she randomly joins you up on that raised platform when you're giving the speech to your team right before you fight the human-reaper. i was like "what. go back down and join the rest of the team, woman." but she just stood there and acted like she was important.

It was probably the way you worded it, but I laughed out loud at that.

STG wrote...

drwells123 wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

No,
I mean Miranda says something along the lines of "Really, Shepard? She
got both of the squads that she led killed." Stupid double pronouns.

Ouch. She made herself about 80 million mortal enemies (i.e. Tali fans) with that line.

Tali did get both of her squads killed. If Tali fans can't see that, then they're completely blind.

I agree that she wouldn't be the right choice for picking as a team leader, but she didn't exactly get her teams killed in either situation.

In the first, they ran off to stop Cerberus, admittedly that shows she didn't have their loyalty to the extent that she should have. They disobeyed her because she was willing to work alongside Cerberus Operatives, but to be fair, if you asked Tali to shoot a Quarian do you really think she'd do it, despite how charismatic Shepard is supposed to be?

In the second case I do not recall seeing anything to suggest that the deaths were due to any mistakes Tali
made, they gave their lives to protect her because of who she was. Correct me if I am wrong.

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 02 février 2011 - 06:06 .

[Aedan_Cousland]

Miranda's leadership over the Lazarus Project shouldn't be downplayed. It made the most important medical breakthrough in the history of mankind. Curing Polio, Influenza, or Cancer pales in comparison to the ability to bring someone back from the dead.

As for experience with combat leadership, it is a safe bet that Miranda has that as well. Otherwise she wouldn't have been your executive officer. The Illusive Man is all about results. If Miranda wasn't up to the task he would had some other Cerberus loyalist who was up to it, installed on your ship as the XO.

That, and she had been a Cerberus operative since she was a teenager. I doubt her first time being shot at, or her first 'kill' was while on Shepard's team.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 02 février 2011 - 06:38 .

[tvr321]

I've got to replay the mission just to see her reaction to Jack being team leader



Must be lulzworthy

[Yeti13]

I pick Garrus most of the time but I don't recall her having a problem with Zaeed or Samara who both got all the team thru. Ill do anything to ****** her off anyway! Go to go pick Jack sometime

[aeetos21]

I read somewhere someone had figured out who would've lived and who would've died if Miranda was in charge and they never brought Shepard back at all. I think the end verdict was she would've succeeded and survived but just barely.

For example: Garrus and Tali likely wouldn't have joined at all so those two are right out. Neither would have Jack I believe. Grunt likely would've as without Garrus and Tali they'd be hurting for numbers and I think Miranda would've woken him just in time for Horizon - I understand if that is debatable. Legion would've been sold for scrap.

Leaves us with:
Jacob
Mordin
Grunt
Samara
Thane
*Zaeed
*Kasumi

Since she sent Jacob the intel on his father and since he's Jacob to begin with I'd say he's probably definitely loyal so he'd be the designated second fire team leader.

So w/DLC

This leaves us with the tech jobs:
-Kasumi for the vents (since Cerberus made the deal to help her with the heist its safe to say she'd be loyal).
-Crew would die, she likely wouldn't send escort.
-Samara/Morinth would do the bubble so no losses there which leaves the hold the line and baby reaper.

-Its arguable who she would bring but Zaeed would likely be loyal since he had a deal with Cerberus also so that's a plus. If she played her cards right, assigned soldier types to guard the rear door, she'd be walking out of it okay.

Now without the DLC there'd be no Kasumi or no Zaeed so there would definitely be casualties. I still think she'd get the job done but probably would get herself and her team all killed in the process.

Anyway, not necessarily on topic but it relates so I figured I'd put it out there.

Modifié par aeetos21, 02 février 2011 - 09:53 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Aeetos if your going to use 'game mechanics' as to why Zaeed and Kasumi are there then you forget one flaw in your idea. If Miranda followed game mechanics she wouldn't be able to do the suicide mission because if she is fulfilling the 'Shepard' role then she needs at least 1 more squadmate to get to the Collector ship



Let's face it Zaeed and Kasumi were planned to be in the game, they just didn't make the 'lockdown' point for the game and so got added as DLC.



For the final battle she'd probably have took Jacob and Mordin, seeing as Jacob is a Cerberus agent and she has big respect for Mordin Solus. That leaves the door defence of zaeed, grunt, samara, thane and kasumi. which means everyone gets out alive. Now even without Kasumi and Zaeed, they'd still all make it out alive because there isn't any other 'weak' squadmates on the door defence team (Kasumi would've been the only one with no Jack or Tali and Mordin in the final battle).



One thing I've always been tempted to do and I might just do it in my 'worse playthrough' is to pick Grunt as Leader, considering Miri's initial reaction to him being on the ship even in a lifepod, I bet her reaction is more funny than that of picking Jack. As for her reaction to Kasumi, I think that screams that she thinks she would've been better off as the Tech than as Leader



Just my opinion though, no need to go spreading it around