25 réponses à ce sujet

[traveller_]

Well, as the topic says. I know that cleansing aura drains mana, but how much is that drain exactly? Anybody knows?

Modifié par traveller_, 11 février 2010 - 03:21 .

[mosspit]

-10mana per tick (~2secs)

[traveller_]

Wow, like SS... that's pretty harsh really. I suppose that using it in combination with SS is out of question...

Modifié par traveller_, 11 février 2010 - 04:09 .

[Critical_Error]

Its a very strong ability to be fair. Especially if you micro manage to make sure all your allies are within the AoE.

[mosspit]

imo it is a good situational talent at best. Usually, a party will have 1/2 tanks. They will be the ones taking ~80% of the dmg and requires healing. Regen and heal are way sufficient. Even at a point where the party suffers AoE, group heal does the trick.

Probably useful if the party do not have a taunting/threaten tank. I personally took it once on Wynne on 1st playthru. Saw what it does. Disappointed. It dropped off when Wynne's mana ran out. Doubly disappointed. Never took it again.

[TBastian]

It's useful for emergency healing. Turn it on if you expect to get hit by a strong AoE or if everything else you have is in cooldown, and turn it off once the party is stable again. It's not really an ability you would want to keep on indefinitely. Emergency second-wind type skill.

Modifié par TBastian, 11 février 2010 - 07:13 .

[mosspit]

TBastian wrote...

It's useful for emergency healing. Turn it on if you expect to get hit by a strong AoE or if everything else you have is in cooldown, and turn it off once the party is stable again. It's not really an ability you would want to keep on indefinitely. Emergency second-wind type skill.

I dont really agree that it is for emergency healing. Emergency healing to me is like a desperation move for healing that needs to be realized asap. Cleansing is like regenerate in terms of over time.... you cant really rely on them on them in near-death situations (which I feel are the emergencies). You rely on heal and group heal as they are almost instant.

[TBastian]

There's no reason why you can't use it along with Heal and Group Heal when your entire party is in near-death situation and all of these spells are available.
Not all emergencies happen when you party is already on its last HPs and taking gradual damage. If you foresee that your party could possibly be in a near-death situation in the next few seconds then that's still an emergency.  The problem is when this happens and Group Heal is still around 1/2 or so of its cooldown time. Depending on your party you can retreat, bait all aggro on a character, cast Force Field, etc., but if you have the mana to use Cleansing to prevent that, why not? You can just turn it off afterwards.

[mosspit]

Hmmm you are pretty defensive on Cleansing. Maybe its because it saved your butt or something?
CA is a AoE regenerate spell that has a severe mana penalty, moderate 30s cd, and can only be taken at lvl14. Advancing playthru, more effective builds will lessen the need of healing of any kind. CA really do not have very strong redeeming qualities for a tier4 talent.
Lets put it this way. If you *can* forsee an emergency issue, do not leave talents like group heal on cd. Similar to aggroing enemies, kill the enemies that post the most threat to the party like mages or scattershooting archers. Maybe it is related to my playstyle, but I cld not find reasonable practicality in CA and a Taunted Forcefield tank is cheaper than ostiluke's sphere of resilience.

[TBastian]

Hmmm you are pretty defensive on Cleansing. Maybe its because it saved your butt or something?

Yep. I actually agree with you on most counts, but I guess I'm a bit biased. And my experiences are a little different. I'm guessing you take mostly warriors for your party?

[mosspit]

I really like mages for their versatility. I played all combinations of mages in a party on separate playthrus. I just rank CA lower since there are heals/group heal/regenerate that are already relatively spammable. The talents are better used to getter another CC/Support/Dmg talents.

[x-president]

I only use it to heal injuries after the battle.  For me it drains mana way too fast.

[Sarielle]

x-president wrote...

I only use it to heal injuries after the battle.  For me it drains mana way too fast.

That's what I used it for. Free injury kits!

[FollowTheGourd]

Still need injury kits for the person using it, but that's about it. Plus injuries don't seem to really scale as you level, making them less of an issue. If anything, worse than injuries is only getting 90% of the XP if you're dead (or in camp) at the time.

The spell doesn't seem that overly useful during combat either so far.

Modifié par FollowTheGourd, 12 février 2010 - 04:51 .

[Sarielle]

^I agree. I was speaking strictly of the time I tried the skill out, lol. I wasn't especially impressed either.

[traveller_]

While I started this thread, there are some points I might disagree. It is possible to raise your mana regeneration score high enough so that you can actually keep the ability up indefinitely during combat, and in that case I suppose it might be very useful.



What disappoints me is that it cannot be effectively used while using SS at the same time, making a combination of AW and healer not as effective as the sum of the two. Sure, the other three spells might still be of use, but it is worth to choose a specialization if you don't plan to go for its tier 4? On the other hand, shapeshifter does not mix well with AW, and blood magic has RP constraints (also blood magic works better with a ranger in the party, which I don't like very much).

[Maferath]

Only ever used it after the battle, to spare injury kits...

Since some people are mentioning it, could anyone point me to a list of all mana-regeneration items in the game? my AW has Evon the Great's mail in a set with Wade's superior heavy boots and gloves, but she still cannot keep up with SS's draining effect. ):


edit: nvm. just saw the other thread x)

Modifié par Maferath, 12 février 2010 - 10:00 .

[mosspit]

Erm you shd justify taking a tier4 talent from a spec because it is good and not because the spec is taken up. Depending on your requirements for the mage, I feel it is completely fine to take low tier talents from a spec because it fits your playstyle and leave higher tiers alone.

For SH, group heal is arguably the best spell in the line followed maybe by revival. For BM, blood control is not worthwhile. AW and SS have sweet tier4 so they are worthwhile.

[traveller_]

Depending on your requirements for the mage, I feel it is completely fine to take low tier talents from a spec because it fits your playstyle and leave higher tiers alone.

That's not entirely correct. You have only two specializations to use,
so if you have already made up your mind about one (I have, AW) and then you have to choose between a specialization with 3 worthy talents, and one that holds 4 worthy talents, what would you do? From theory to practice, I like for RP purpose a AW/SH. However, due to this problem with cleansing aura I am seriously thinking to switch to AW/BM, despite it not being my favorite RP template.

For SH, group heal is arguably the best spell in the line followed maybe by revival.

Do not forget that life ward is essentially another heal spell that can be used when everything else is in cooldown.

For BM, blood control is not worthwhile.

I am curious about this. I never tested it, but I thought that a spell doing massive damage to a boss might not be a bad idea. Is the damage not that massive, maybe?

AW and SS have sweet tier4 so they are worthwhile.

But they do not mix well. At all.

Besides, I wanted to stress another point. If you pick up SH alone, cleansing aura may be worthwhile, even though it eats your mana pretty fast it's far from impossible to get enough equipment to sustain it indefinitely. But mix it with the AW and suddenly you have to choose between Cleansing aura and shimmering shield (guess which? :-)), lessening the advantage of having a SH. Not sure I like that.

[TBastian]

That's not entirely correct. You have only two specializations to use,
so if you have already made up your mind about one (I have, AW) and then you have to choose between a specialization with 3 worthy talents, and one that holds 4 worthy talents, what would you do? From theory to practice, I like for RP purpose a AW/SH. However, due to this problem with cleansing aura I am seriously thinking to switch to AW/BM, despite it not being my favorite RP template.

Although many of us disagree on the usefulness of Cleansing, all of us do agree that it's something that you should only turn on if you really need to (or take if you've run out of options). Don't make such a fuss over it just because you can't maintain it with Shimmering Shield. Why would you want to keep Shimmering Shield up indefinitely anyway? I see no point unless you want to tank everything by yourself (in which case the most you only need is Revive) or solo (then Cleansing Aura wouldn't be useful anyway).

I am curious about this. I never tested it, but I thought that a spell doing massive damage to a boss might not be a bad idea. Is the damage not that massive, maybe?

It's a good spell and it works fine, but it's more of a luxury spell. Most times you are better off casting something else. You can probably even compare it to Cleansing Aura, although depending on whether you have lots of crowd control spells and talents for your party then it might not be useful at all.

But they do not mix well. At all.

They do actually. Anyway SS is complicated.

Besides, I wanted to stress another point. If you pick up SH alone, cleansing aura may be worthwhile, even though it eats your mana pretty fast it's far from impossible to get enough equipment to sustain it indefinitely. But mix it with the AW and suddenly you have to choose between Cleansing aura and shimmering shield (guess which? :-)), lessening the advantage of having a SH. Not sure I like that.

SH is the only character with Group Heal and Revive. There is no replacing those two skills, whatever you do. There is no "lessening" the advantage of the SH as long as you have them. The AW, Blood Mage and SS have skills that some other classes can more or less make up for, yet Group Heal and Revive will always remain irreplaceable.

Modifié par TBastian, 12 février 2010 - 04:21 .

[traveller_]

Although many of us disagree on the usefulness of Cleansing, all of us do agree that it's something that you should only turn on if you really need to (or take if you've run out of options).

On which point I do not agree. With decent mana regen you could keep it up at all times on a pure spirit healer, which I think might be a nice boost to any party (and actually the only reason I would consider using it).

Why would you want to keep Shimmering Shield up indefinitely anyway?

??? Tons of people playing with SS always up, actually. The fact that you see no point doesn't mean that nobody can. Still, while talking I found a usefulness for it, which might jsutify its adoption. The same as life ward. You could use it as a second group heal if the usual one is in cooldown. Not as good as group heal actually, exactly like life ward is not as good as heal, but it's still a backup.

It's a good spell and it works fine, but it's more of a luxury spell. Most times you are better off casting something else.

Ah, now that's interesting. From some information I gathered it seems that the spell makes something like 150hp, almost double damage than blood wound, which is not exactly something negligible even against bosses. The only shortcoming that might hamper its usefulness might be a long casting time. Is the casting time long? Or it casts immediately like cleansing aura?

But they do not mix well. At all.

They do actually. Anyway SS is complicated.

This is a pretty difficult point to sustain. They are so very redundant...

SH is the only character with Group Heal and Revive. There is no replacing those two skills,

Yes. But on a AW they tend to be VERY situational (along with cleansing aura), due to the limited mana pool and high fatigue. Although I suppose that with large escorts of lyrium potions and willlpower high enough you might still be an effective healer, while still being using combat magic and sustainables. Otherwise you must resign yourself to make a situational use of your abilities. Situational flexibility would be the advantage, not combined use of all your abilities like in the AW/BM combination.

[mosspit]

traveller_ wrote...

That's not entirely correct. You have only two specializations to use,
so if you have already made up your mind about one (I have, AW) and then you have to choose between a specialization with 3 worthy talents, and one that holds 4 worthy talents, what would you do? From theory to practice, I like for RP purpose a AW/SH. However, due to this problem with cleansing aura I am seriously thinking to switch to AW/BM, despite it not being my favorite RP template.

Erm so you picked a spec because it has more useful spells? Isnt that what I said? Supposed you decided to pick a spec (ie. spec choice fixed with usefulness of spells already considered) for 2 useful spells but they tier 1 and 2, do you really wanna go ahead to take tier 3 and 4 to justify picking the spec?

On part of blood control, I heard that the dmg is glitched and never happens so either you charm your enemy or you don't. I never used it enough to see the damge... everytime I used it an enemy gets charmed nv bothered on bosses.

Modifié par mosspit, 13 février 2010 - 01:07 .

[JosieJ]

 

traveller_ wrote...

That's not entirely correct. You have only two specializations to use,
so if you have already made up your mind about one (I have, AW) and then you have to choose between a specialization with 3 worthy talents, and one that holds 4 worthy talents, what would you do? From theory to practice, I like for RP purpose a AW/SH. However, due to this problem with cleansing aura I am seriously thinking to switch to AW/BM, despite it not being my favorite RP template.

I don't see why one has to use all the talents in both specializations--or even one, for that matter.  Several times, I've picked a second specialization only for the bonuses, and never taken any of the talents in it.  Most of the time I've done this, it's been with a mage: they have so many non-spec spells to choose among, sometimes the spec spells don't really add much to the build that a regular one couldn't add just as well. 

I actually do this for Wynne all the time--she's so good as a healer, and there are so many useful spells that synergize well with that from the 4 regular schools of magic that I usually don't bother giving her any of the spells from whatever 2nd specialization I pick for her.

(Edited for clarity.)

Modifié par JosieJ, 13 février 2010 - 04:59 .

[5Warlocks]

Cleansing Aura is most useful for a Mage also specced Arcane Warrior that you want to use as your party's main tank. It generates a very high amount of threat.

[traveller_]

Cleansing Aura is most useful for a Mage also specced Arcane Warrior that you want to use as your party's main tank. It generates a very high amount of threat.

Oh, that's interesting but pretty undocumented. How did you learn it?