66 réponses à ce sujet

[Frumyfrenzy]

Hi

I start with my suggestions, my explanation comes after that. My suggestions:

1. Get rid of stamina bars (mana bar is debatable), rely on cooldowns to avoid the spamming of abilities. OR:
2. Adjust the stamina regen in a way that let's you use activated abilities several times in a fight.
3. Combine 1 or 2 with fights where activated abilities make a difference, i.e. longer fights.

Explanation:

I played the game a few times now and I made some observations about my playstyle: I activate all those sustained abilities and use not more than one ability per fight. This seems odd. Especially when you consider, that there are a whole lot of abilities. I'd really like to use more activated abilities, but stamina is drained too quickly and by the time you could use it a second time a regular fight is already won. At this moment the activated ability/fight ratio is 1.

I notice that abilities requiring stamina is a common idea nowadays with all those MMORPGs around. Further it makes the experience of fighting more an active one,rather than simply tactical. With activated abilities you play a character rather than giving him orders. However this only works correctly if you can use those abilities several times per fight.

What do you think of those suggestions? Are you happy with the way the activated abilities/stamina bar works?

edit: changed *energy' to 'stamina'

Modifié par Frumyfrenzy, 11 février 2010 - 05:33 .

[Mlai00]

I'm happy with the way the energy bar works currently.

And I have no idea what you're talking about. My own experience differs drastically.

[Frumyfrenzy]

I'm surpised. Really. So you can use your abilities several times per fight, such as Whirlwind? Or what exactly do you mean with 'And I have no idea what you're talking about?' ?

[cmathews03]

For starters, this isn't World of Warcraft; there is no "energy" in this game. We have "stamina". From a role-playing standpoint, having stamina makes sense. Moreover, cooldowns are only in place to offer balance.

To the point, a player isn't necessarily supposed to activate all of their sustained abilities for every fight. The fact that sustained abilities (essentially) cripple your stamina pool is designed to force a player to 'pick and choose' abilities based on party composition, individual encounters, and desired utility. You really only have yourself to blame if you're encountering problems, no offense.

I agree that each class comes equipped with a pretty extensive arsenal of talents, but not every talent is ideal or viable. Most abilities don't even make it to my Quick Bar because I find them, essentially, useless. If you approach fights with the mindset that you must use every available ability, you have a flawed misconception of how the game works. Again, no offense.

Overall, I think the stamina constraints are necessary, and (considering it isn't "hard" to increase a player's available stamina pool) I don't see why it has to be an issue.

My two copper, mind you.

Modifié par cmathews03, 11 février 2010 - 04:57 .

[Babaghanouj]

Your first post is confusing and really not clear on what you dislike about energy bars (stamina I presume) and your proposed 'fix.' Are you taking fatigue into account? I have no problem with the 'energy bar' system; I can use several talents per fight. Scarfing down a mushroom will replenish your stamina some (and someone has even made a stamina potion, which is surprisingly missing from the vanilla game). Sounds to me like you are simply overtaxing your stamina. Just because you CAN use everything doesn't mean you SHOULD. Knowing when to use a talent, be it sustained or not, is critical. Revise your talent strategy because there's almost certainly a more efficient way for you to use them.

[Eurypterid]

I haven't played a Warrior yet, so I can only speak to Rogue abilities, but I haven't found I can only use one activated ability per fight. For my dual wielding Rogue, Momentum is on pretty much 100% of the time, so that takes a piece of my Stamina pool. But I've often used combinations of Whirlwind, Dirty Fighting, Flurry, Cripple, Mark of Death, etc. in the same fight.



If you mean can you use the same ability over and over in a fight, then the answer is 'not for most regular fights' but for the bigger ones, yes, I've been able to use the same one a couple times too.



I have run out of Stamina from time to time as well, but I eventually installed the mod that adds Stamina potions (although I find I rarely use them).

[Sabriana]

Me too. My PC uses 'Momentum' as a regular sustained ability, and had no problems using the others multiple times in a battle. Although my DW/dex warrior is also greatly helped by her armor that she got in a certain place. It's a great outfit, and it has great stamina benefits.

The stamina potions do help, but she too rarely uses them, except in big fights (and in a certain place in the dwarven quest)

[Frumyfrenzy]

'For starters, this isn't World of Warcraft; there is no "energy" in this game. We have "stamina". From a role-playing standpoint, having stamina makes sense.'

I didn't want to offend anyone by using the term 'energy', sorry for that.

'The fact that sustained abilities (essentially) cripple your stamina pool is designed to force a player to 'pick and choose' abilities based on party composition, individual encounters, and desired utility. You really only have yourself to blame if you're encountering problems, no offense. '

I do understand the concept behind sustained abilities. I just think it could be improved.

'If you approach fights with the mindset that you must use every available ability, you have a flawed misconception of how the game works.'

I do not approach fights expecting to be able to use every available abilitiy. But certainly more than one per fight on average. Someone could argue: 'deactivate Momentum', but honestly, it is just too good.

'Overall, I think the stamina constraints are necessary'

In that case I think it could be improved by a substantially increased regeneration rate.

Modifié par Frumyfrenzy, 11 février 2010 - 05:18 .

[cmathews03]

(Just as an addendum, I wasn't offended. The use of the term "energy" could just be confusing to some. I apologize for my seemingly-snide reply. I, routinely, come across as a dick, which I why I often have to qualify my responses to convey otherwise.)

My only additional comment, which I only briefly touched upon in my first reply, is this: if you're running into stamina issues, try investing a few attribute points in Willpower to increase your total stamina pool. Suggesting an overhaul of an otherwise "good" system is just silly when easy adjustments could be made on your part. =)

Modifié par cmathews03, 11 février 2010 - 05:18 .

[Frumyfrenzy]

cmathews03 wrote...
My only additional comment, which I only briefly touched upon in my first reply, is this: if you're running into stamina issues, try investing a few attribute points in willpower to increase your total stamina pool. Suggesting an overhaul of an otherwise "good" system is just silly when easy adjustments could be made on your part. =)

I know that I could invest a few points in willpower to increase my total stamina. Still I think an increased regeneration rate is the better option. Coming from Neverwinter Nights and Baldurs Gate, I honestly didn't understand the need for stamina when I first started DA:Origins. I still don't.

Modifié par Frumyfrenzy, 11 février 2010 - 05:33 .

[Randomname1212]

Rejuvenation spell from a mage would prove helpful for you.

[Frumyfrenzy]

Randomname1212 wrote...

Rejuvenation spell from a mage would prove helpful for you.

Its effect needs to be increased as well in my opinion.... Well, it seems everyone else thinks it is fine the way it works now and my suggestions wouldn't improve anything, since there isn't anything to be improved. This is odd for me to recognize, since I thought to state the obvious.

[cmathews03]

I don't necessarily disagree that regeneration could stand to be increased whilst in combat; however, I don't fully see a pressing need for it, either. I (almost exclusively) play stamina-dependent characters, and I *really* don't notice any issues with the way the stamina system works at present.



I wish I could empathize more.

[Babaghanouj]

Frumyfrenzy wrote...

Randomname1212 wrote...

Rejuvenation spell from a mage would prove helpful for you.

Its effect needs to be increased as well in my opinion.... Well, it seems everyone else thinks it is fine the way it works now and my suggestions wouldn't improve anything, since there isn't anything to be improved. This is odd for me to recognize, since I thought to state the obvious.

I truly believe the problem lies solely in your use of talents (misuse is probably more fitting). Don't use all your sustainables every time. I sure don't. Part of being an elite harbinger of death is knowing when to use your abilities. I say this with all sincerity because this issue is potentially game-breaking for you.

[Frumyfrenzy]

Regarding cancelling those sustained abilities, why would my rogue want to cancel momentum? Or my warrior shield wall and threaten? There are sustained abilites which are too good to be cancelled. No single ability is worth deactivating those. This is why I find it hard to understtand this *cancel sustained abilities to free stamina* argument. I'd still prefer increasing the stamina regneration.

[Eurypterid]

You'll note I said I have Momentum on all the time and still find I can use my other abilities in combat. You can always increase your Willpower if you find you need more Stamina though, as someone noted. The suggestion was, I believe, that perhaps you have too many sustained abilities activated (although this may not be the case). It's a trade-off. You have to decide what's most important for your character to use. Basically, it's intentionally designed so you can't have it all and must decide what's the most advantageous to use in any given circumstance.

[Babaghanouj]

Because you need to think tactically. Yes in theory using everything makes sense, but that's not practical. This thread is testament to that. You simply do not have the willpower. The problem is in your use of the combat system, not the combat system itself which is just fine. I won't refute your call for better stamina regeneration, but I don't think that will make as big a difference as you do. You'll still have to manage your stamina better.

[Saberdark]

Generally I start off a battle without my sustained abilities activated, then once my stamina falls below the point where I would lose stamina I turn them on. But you really aren't supposed to just spam all your abilities as soon as possible. It's not like a mage is expected to use all of his spells in a single fight, after all. Same thing applies here, use the abilities that will benefit you most in the situation.

[cmathews03]

You'll have to forgive me, then. When you said, "I activate all those sustained abilities" I naturally assumed you had more than one sustained ability activated. If you're finding your stamina severely constrained with just a single sustained ability active, I'd say something else is terribly amiss, as that shouldn't be the case at all.

If, however, I understood you correctly, and you have more than one sustained ability activated at a time, then you need to take a step back and reevaluate your strategy. It isn't feasible to have all those sustained abilities up at one time, and (regardless of your suggestions) it'll never be the case that you'll find it as such.

To put it simply, you "cannot have your cake and eat it, too." You have to pick and choose, you have to "min and max," as some people say. At the end of the day, the system isn't flawed, but rather your understanding and execution within that system is. Again, I don't wish to sound snide, but refusing to accept that your gameplay could use some improvement (and rather suggesting that the system should be reworked to cater, specifically, to your playstyle) is a bit bold, and a bit ridiculous. Others, as you have seen, have managed to work with and within the current system with little to no issues.

Is the system perfect? Absolutely not--and I bet you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who would assert that it is. Is the system so seriously flawed that it needs to be (almost) completely revised? Absolutely not. And that, really, is just how it is.

I hope you manage to figure it out. Best of luck to you.

Modifié par cmathews03, 11 février 2010 - 06:09 .

[Frumyfrenzy]

Eurypterid wrote...

You'll note I said I have Momentum on all the time and still find I can use my other abilities in combat. You can always increase your Willpower if you find you need more Stamina though, as someone noted. The suggestion was, I believe, that perhaps you have too many sustained abilities activated (although this may not be the case). It's a trade-off. You have to decide what's most important for your character to use. Basically, it's intentionally designed so you can't have it all and must decide what's the most advantageous to use in any given circumstance.

I fear having Momentum and Dueling activated is better under almost all circumstances.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Frumyfrenzy wrote...

I activate all those sustained abilities

Well there's your problem.

Don't activate those sustained abilities at the start of the fight.  Sustained abilities reserve stamina which you can't then use for other things, but they don't actually consume any stamina.  You don't need to have any stamina to activate sustained abilities.

So, for example, with a DW Warrior, I'll use Flurry and Riposte and Dual-Weapon Sweep, and only after that will I activate Dual Striking and Momentum, because then they're free.

[Frumyfrenzy]

cmathews03 wrote...

To put it simply, you "cannot have your cake and eat it, too." You have to pick and choose, you have to "min and max," as some people say. At the end of the day, the system isn't flawed, but rather your understanding and execution within that system is. Again, I don't wish to sound snide, but refusing to accept that your gameplay could use some improvement (and rather suggesting that the system should be reworked to cater, specifically, to your playstyle) is a bit bold, and a bit ridiculous. Others, as you have seen, have managed to work with and within the current system with little to no issues.

I have no issues winning a fight in this game. But when I ask myself: 'Would it be more fun, if the use of abilities were only restricted by their cooldowns?', then I have to say 'yes'. That's all. This has nothing to do with flawed understanding and execution.

[Mordaedil]

I do not disagree with the OP, even though I have been able to use my abilities several times during a fight, it still feels like it was flawed, especially with several classes suddenly possessing mana and then suddenly needing stamina for something.

[Frumyfrenzy]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Frumyfrenzy wrote...

I activate all those sustained abilities

Well there's your problem.

Don't activate those sustained abilities at the start of the fight.  Sustained abilities reserve stamina which you can't then use for other things, but they don't actually consume any stamina.  You don't need to have any stamina to activate sustained abilities.

So, for example, with a DW Warrior, I'll use Flurry and Riposte and Dual-Weapon Sweep, and only after that will I activate Dual Striking and Momentum, because then they're free.

I haven't thought of that, will definitely try it.

[cmathews03]

Mordaedil wrote...

I do not disagree with the OP, even though I have been able to use my abilities several times during a fight, it still feels like it was flawed, especially with several classes suddenly possessing mana and then suddenly needing stamina for something.

A character cannot possess both mana- and stamina-dependent abilities.