66 réponses à ce sujet

[Mordaedil]

cmathews03 wrote...

Mordaedil wrote...

I do not disagree with the OP, even though I have been able to use my abilities several times during a fight, it still feels like it was flawed, especially with several classes suddenly possessing mana and then suddenly needing stamina for something.

A character cannot possess both mana- and stamina-dependent abilities. 

Arcane Warrior? Templar?

[NightmarezAbound]

Stamina=Mana. two names for the exact same thing, as it/they both come off the Will score. should have just called it one thing.



and personally have never had an issue not using more than one talent/spell in a fight even with my sustains going sounds like some wish to just spam say for example Whirlwind over and over. have too many other talents to use flurry cripple, sweep such a nice wide variety. and I'd use most of them in every fight.

[AlanC9]

Mordaedil, are you saying that AWs and Templars do have both types of abilities, or that they should.



There is a distinction between stamina and mana. Lyrium will replenish one, but not the other, right?

[DraconisCombine]

Stamina is linked to armor fatigue as well.WIllpower regenerates said stamina or mana pool.Otherwise youll have mages walking around in full plate mail which would be quite retarded and wrong.I have no trouble managing mana /stamina pools.It takes some time getting used to but otherwise makes sense to me.

Sustained abilities seem good the way they are.Ive used some from certain areas and none for others depending on how i want to tackle different situations.Only mages can use lyrium potions.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Please leave both bars where they are. I really need them. I am also glad that both values of the currently selected character show up on my Logitech G13 display. Very cool.

[Frumyfrenzy]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Please leave both bars where they are. I really need them. I am also glad that both values of the currently selected character show up on my Logitech G13 display. Very cool.

Cool. Maybe I should get a G13 to appreciate the stamina bar more

[CrillanK]

I think you put too much weight into the special activated abilities. They're meant for special purposes and you'll almost always do more damage just by auto-attacking. For example, you don't want to keep using dual weapon sweep just because it pops. Only use it when you can hit multiple enemies with it. Same with whirlwind. You only need to use stuns/knockdowns when you need to control an enemy or minimize damage taken. Save any skill that gives a critical hit for frozen enemies.

Your primary damage is from auto-attack which is affected by sustained abilities like momentum.  This is how I play and I rarely have a problem with an ability not being available because I ran out of stamina.  Having said that, I don't really have a problem using abilities multiple times in longer fights either.

Modifié par CrillanK, 11 février 2010 - 09:23 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Frumyfrenzy wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Please leave both bars where they are. I really need them. I am also glad that both values of the currently selected character show up on my Logitech G13 display. Very cool.

Cool. Maybe I should get a G13 to appreciate the stamina bar more

Hehe. Well... They show up as numeric values... Like 200/255 (first number is the current value, second number is the max value).

G13 Advanced Gameboard.

What I like about this is that I can control the movement with my left hand thumb by fiddling with a small stick (instead of pushing WASD) and that leaves the fingers of that hand free to  push the other buttons. The right hand still controls the mouse as usual. No need for the large keyboard.

Cool that BioWare supported the LCD display on that device.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 11 février 2010 - 09:34 .

[Frumyfrenzy]

I seem to give the impression that I do not like the combat system of Dragon Age, but I do. I just think  that it could be even more enjoyable. Maybe I started this thread the wrong way, maybe I should have (truthfully!) written:

Hi!

I really love Dragon Age, it definitely is one of the best games I've played the last few years. Great detailed world, great playtime, outstanding characters, the combat is well done, the animations first class and watching your group slaying through enemies is like sex for your eyes. But wouldn't it be even more awesome, if cool stuff like whirlwind would only be restricted by its cooldown without  stamina requirements? So that you could use your abilities more often?

thx for reading!

P.S.
reading 'The Calling' at the moment, looking forward to Awakening!

[Babaghanouj]

But many of us are saying we don't have a problem with it. They're special abilities and they're only special because you have to choose when to use them. If you could use them over and over and over, well that'd be pretty boring and unspecial.

[CrillanK]

My point is why would you want to keep using whirlwind if there aren't multiple enemies around you? It does less damage than you can do to one enemy in the same amount of time as auto-attack. Most of the time when you have multiple enemies, they'll mostly die off before you can use whirlwind again.

You can't realistically expect to just spam whirlwind until everything dies. That would be a little overpowered I think. Once or twice is just enough to kill most groups of enemies combined with the rest of the group damage and that's a good thing. Especially if you have 2 rogues alternating whirlwind and sweep, you'd be able to take out large groups of enemies very fast. That's just unbalanced.

Modifié par CrillanK, 11 février 2010 - 10:01 .

[Gavranko]

I say leave the stamina bar. The fighting system is fine at least for me.

CrillanK wrote...
You can't realistically expect to just spam whirlwind until everything dies. That would be a little overpowered I think. Once or twice is just enough to kill most groups of enemies combined with the rest of the group damage and that's a good thing. Especially if you have 2 rogues alternating whirlwind and sweep, you'd be able to take out large groups of enemies very fast. That's just unbalanced.

Exactly. One of my characters is Rogue and I think it would be very unbalanced. We don't want to have things too easy, do we? 

[Frumyfrenzy]

Gavranko wrote...

I say leave the stamina bar. The fighting system is fine at least for me.

CrillanK wrote...
You can't realistically expect to just spam whirlwind until everything dies. That would be a little overpowered I think. Once or twice is just enough to kill most groups of enemies combined with the rest of the group damage and that's a good thing. Especially if you have 2 rogues alternating whirlwind and sweep, you'd be able to take out large groups of enemies very fast. That's just unbalanced.

Exactly. One of my characters is Rogue and I think it would be very unbalanced. We don't want to have things too easy, do we? 

I didn't say spam, I just suggested: cooldown yes, stamina no.

[Spitz6860]

i actually think that skill cooldowns would be a good idea for stamina based classes, and no stamina and mana are not the same thing at all, one can be replenished with lyrium and the other can only rely on regeneration and certain spells. right now all 2 handed warrior characters usually use up all their stamina within 10-20 secs of a battle and wack their way through the rest, it's inconsistent. a potion that boosts your stamina regen rate would solve the problem mostly, if you go the cooldown route, you 'd have to figure out what to do with the sustained abilities, should they increase the cooldowns of other skills when activated or something else?

also one reason i think mages are overpowered in this game is because that there is no shortage of mana as long as you have lyrium, in my opinion lyriums should give you a certain amount of mana over a period of time, not replenish your mana instantly.

[Frumyfrenzy]

Babaghanouj wrote...

But many of us are saying we don't have a problem with it. They're special abilities and they're only special because you have to choose when to use them. If you could use them over and over and over, well that'd be pretty boring and unspecial.

If the cooldown is 15 seconds, what exactly is the objection?

[CrillanK]

What's the difference between a longer cooldown and waiting for stamina to regen? You still wait. At least with stamina you can adjust how much you have with skill points and how much it regens with gear and spells. With a long cooldown, you can't change it.

[Frumyfrenzy]

Spitz6860 wrote...

also one reason i think mages are overpowered in this game is because that there is no shortage of mana as long as you have lyrium, in my opinion lyriums should give you a certain amount of mana over a period of time, not replenish your mana instantly.

Good point. Further: If stamina had its own refilling potions, abilities were in fact only restricted by their cooldowns.

Modifié par Frumyfrenzy, 11 février 2010 - 10:44 .

[Frumyfrenzy]

CrillanK wrote...

What's the difference between a longer cooldown and waiting for stamina to regen? You still wait. At least with stamina you can adjust how much you have with skill points and how much it regens with gear and spells. With a long cooldown, you can't change it.

The difference is, that you can activate different abilities each with their own (or shared) cooldown. Stamina is an additional requirement. So even if some abilities are ready (regarding their cooldowns), you can't activate them because they all have additional stamina costs. I'm asking myself, if one requirement restricting the spamming of abilities isn't enough.

Modifié par Frumyfrenzy, 11 février 2010 - 10:43 .

[soteria]

If the cooldown is 15 seconds, what exactly is the objection?

I'd say a problem with it is that then gameplay starts to feel more like whack-a-mole than tactical. Then you're just watching all your abilities and hitting them as they come off cooldown, rather than having to weigh the benefit vs stamina cost and future opportunities lost from the cooldown. I think it's a good system, but I do wish they had implemented stamina potions as well as lyrium potions. It's not as though warriors and rogues would have become unstoppable killing machines with them...

To put it another way, they're both necessary to keep combat interesting and to keep the abilities balanced.  If it were only a stamina cost with no cooldown, you could spam an ability like Punisher or Whirlwind and dish out loads of damage in a burst, and get stamina back with deathblow.  You would probably be too powerful with stamina, and not powerful enough without it.

Modifié par soteria, 11 février 2010 - 10:47 .

[Wicked 702]

DraconisCombine wrote...

Stamina is linked to armor fatigue as well.WIllpower regenerates said stamina or mana pool.Otherwise youll have mages walking around in full plate mail which would be quite retarded and wrong.I have no trouble managing mana /stamina pools.It takes some time getting used to but otherwise makes sense to me.
Sustained abilities seem good the way they are.Ive used some from certain areas and none for others depending on how i want to tackle different situations.Only mages can use lyrium potions.

You do. They are called Arcane Warriors. I have one now. He wears heavy armor boots with +50 to stamina. Gives me 50 mana instead since I'm a mage. The game treats both stamina and mana as the same thing. The only difference between them being that mages have a potion and others don't (without mod of course).

[Frumyfrenzy]

soteria wrote...

If the cooldown is 15 seconds, what exactly is the objection?

I'd say a problem with it is that then gameplay starts to feel more like whack-a-mole than tactical. Then you're just watching all your abilities and hitting them as they come off cooldown, rather than having to weigh the benefit vs stamina cost and future opportunities lost from the cooldown. I think it's a good system, but I do wish they had implemented stamina potions as well as lyrium potions. It's not as though warriors and rogues would have become unstoppable killing machines with them...

To put it another way, they're both necessary to keep combat interesting and to keep the abilities balanced.  If it were only a stamina cost with no cooldown, you could spam an ability like Punisher or Whirlwind and dish out loads of damage in a burst, and get stamina back with deathblow.  You would probably be too powerful with stamina, and not powerful enough without it.

As it is you are waiting for the cooldowns of abilities and the coodown all abilities share, i.e. the time it takes to regenerate enough stamina. So technically, each ability has their own cooldown and a cooldown shared with all other abilities. It's just one cooldown too much for my taste. To avoid slashing through everything with whirlwind and sweep, you could let all area-damage abilities share one cooldown. So if you use whirlwind, sweep can't be used either, until their shared cooldown is ready. But you can use flurry.
Stamina potions would enable you to sweep/whirlwind through everything however.

Modifié par Frumyfrenzy, 11 février 2010 - 10:59 .

[Frumyfrenzy]

distinguetraces wrote...

If the stamina bar were removed, would increased willpower result in faster cooldowns?

If not, what would willpower mean for warriors?

At the moment, you can put points in willpower to gain access to your talents more often, or put points in strength for harder-hitting basic attacks. Get rid of stamina and that choice is gone, making warrior builds more uniform.

It is not uncommon for stats to have no real effect for a certain class. Magic isn't interesting for warriors either. They still have: constitution, strength, dexterity, cunning. At least two of those stats are useless for mages.

[Spitz6860]

one game that the skill cooldown mechanic work well is Diablo, because you can invest multiple skill points into a single skill, thus reducing its cooldown time. furthermore, you can calculate the cooldown time of multiple skills and chain them together, which require you to invest skills points into each skill accordingly instead of just, oh i like this skill so i'll max it out. so in this case cooldowns actually benefit the player for being strategic in skill point investment and adds another level of depth in terms of character leveling. sadly in Dragon Age all cooldown does is limit your options, but it could still work, if balanced properly.