66 réponses à ce sujet

[soteria]

As it is you are waiting for the cooldowns of abilities and the coodown all abilities share, i.e. the time it takes to regenerate enough stamina. So technically, each ability has their own cooldown and a cooldown shared with all other abilities. It's just one cooldown too much for my taste. To avoid slashing through everything with whirlwind and sweep, you could let all area-damage abilities share one cooldown. So if you use whirlwind, sweep can't be used either, until their shared cooldown is ready. But you can use flurry.

I don't like that solution at all. Basically the result is I have to pick the better ability and use that all the time, and will deal even less damage. Besides, in this example, dw sweep has almost 1/3 the cooldown of whirlwind. Your solution to give different abilities of the same class a shared cooldown is a direct nerf. Instead of having the option of chaining a bunch of abilities to kill a key opponent quickly, I would be limited in what I can use.



I haven't really had issues with stamina regen on my warriors--by the time I have enough abilities that I can hit buttons fast enough to run through my stamina, I have deathblow. It's only a "shared cooldown" with other abilities if you try to hit too many buttons too fast.

[Sylixe]

Frumyfrenzy wrote...

Hi

I start with my suggestions, my explanation comes after that. My suggestions:

1. Get rid of stamina bars (mana bar is debatable), rely on cooldowns to avoid the spamming of abilities. OR:
2. Adjust the stamina regen in a way that let's you use activated abilities several times in a fight.
3. Combine 1 or 2 with fights where activated abilities make a difference, i.e. longer fights.

Explanation:

I played the game a few times now and I made some observations about my playstyle: I activate all those sustained abilities and use not more than one ability per fight. This seems odd. Especially when you consider, that there are a whole lot of abilities. I'd really like to use more activated abilities, but stamina is drained too quickly and by the time you could use it a second time a regular fight is already won. At this moment the activated ability/fight ratio is 1.

I notice that abilities requiring stamina is a common idea nowadays with all those MMORPGs around. Further it makes the experience of fighting more an active one,rather than simply tactical. With activated abilities you play a character rather than giving him orders. However this only works correctly if you can use those abilities several times per fight.

What do you think of those suggestions? Are you happy with the way the activated abilities/stamina bar works?

edit: changed *energy' to 'stamina'

You want to know why the game is setup like this OP?  It's setup to look like an MMO and play like an MMO, with spamable abilities.  It also helps drop the difficulty level of the game since you don;t have to worry about how many uses per day you get to use an ability.  If MMO's have proven one thing it's that most players would rather have a game with an easy spam fest of the same ability repeatedly as opposed to actually being forced to think on their feet.

Get used to this style because it's what is easiest to build and it's what the majority wants in their games.

[Wicked 702]

Sylixe wrote...

You want to know why the game is setup like this OP?  It's setup to look like an MMO and play like an MMO, with spamable abilities.  It also helps drop the difficulty level of the game since you don;t have to worry about how many uses per day you get to use an ability.  If MMO's have proven one thing it's that most players would rather have a game with an easy spam fest of the same ability repeatedly as opposed to actually being forced to think on their feet.

Get used to this style because it's what is easiest to build and it's what the majority wants in their games.

Totally disagree with you. I play a mage. What ability can I spam exactly? I use flame blast, winter's grasp, cone of cold, drain life, arcane bolt, and many others. (Not necessarily in that order.) I generally have to go through all 5 of those spells before the first one is ready to go again. That's not spamming one ability. My rogue only used about 3 actual abilities. But not more than once per battle. Where's the spam.

MMOs are built so that each class has to specialize in something, forcing them to be useless as a lone character, hence the need for interaction with others. The fact that you can solo this game with any of the three classes on nightmare with some solid gameplay means this is not like an MMO at all.

Modifié par Wicked 702, 12 février 2010 - 04:07 .

[Frumyfrenzy]

soteria wrote...

As it is you are waiting for the cooldowns of abilities and the coodown all abilities share, i.e. the time it takes to regenerate enough stamina. So technically, each ability has their own cooldown and a cooldown shared with all other abilities. It's just one cooldown too much for my taste. To avoid slashing through everything with whirlwind and sweep, you could let all area-damage abilities share one cooldown. So if you use whirlwind, sweep can't be used either, until their shared cooldown is ready. But you can use flurry.

I don't like that solution at all. Basically the result is I have to pick the better ability and use that all the time, and will deal even less damage. Besides, in this example, dw sweep has almost 1/3 the cooldown of whirlwind. Your solution to give different abilities of the same class a shared cooldown is a direct nerf. Instead of having the option of chaining a bunch of abilities to kill a key opponent quickly, I would be limited in what I can use.

I haven't really had issues with stamina regen on my warriors--by the time I have enough abilities that I can hit buttons fast enough to run through my stamina, I have deathblow. It's only a "shared cooldown" with other abilities if you try to hit too many buttons too fast.

What's wrong with wanting to pick the better ability all the time? Do you pick the worse ability all the time? Or half of the time? What kind of argument is that? Further, if you read carefully, you still can chain abilities which do not share a cooldown and you are not fuirther restricted in doing so in a game without stamina bar.  In fact, I want to chain abilities even then, when you can't do a thing because you have no stamina.

I've completed Dragon Age with my rogue and warrior will be next, an ugly dwarf I want to have sex with Morrigan, no matter her disapproval. Maybe then I'll re-evaluate my opinion on this matter.

Modifié par Frumyfrenzy, 12 février 2010 - 07:34 .

[Frumyfrenzy]

distinguetraces wrote...

It's not uncommon, no, but I think it's lazy game design. DA:O already partially suffers from this weakness -- and I think the suggestion in this thread would make the problem worse.

One of the things that makes the Mage class unblanced is that they really can just pump a couple of stats and ignore the rest.

It is the easy way, yes. That's why I made two suggestions, get rid of the stamina bar or increase stamina regeneration substantially. The regeneration rate could be bound to willpower in addition to the increase of total stamina. Then the only stat warriors/rogues don't need the slightest would be magic. What would you do about mages? There are two stats mages do not benefit from: Strength and Dexterity.

[Babaghanouj]

Basically you want to be Superman.

[IRMcGhee]

Or get the Death Blow skill.

[Frumyfrenzy]

Babaghanouj wrote...

Basically you want to be Superman.

No. I just want to do something about stamina to be able to use abilities more often.

[Frumyfrenzy]

IRMcGhee wrote...

Or get the Death Blow skill.

A warrior is my next character, will try that.

[JanHenDAO]

Everything is working perfect, why fix something that isn't broken?

[Frumyfrenzy]

JanHenDAO wrote...

Everything is working perfect, why fix something that isn't broken?

I didn't say something is broken. I said, that I think it could be improved.

[Mlai00]

You want a character who specializes in special attacks? You know how it can be improved?

It can be improved by you tweaking your character correctly in your inventory menu and in your level-up menu.

In your inventory menu, equip armors and accessories which don't have high fatigue costs, and which give you bonuses to willpower and in-combat stamina regen.

In your level-up menu, invest more points into Willpower. When choosing your next new skill, actually read the tooltips and consider how much the new abilities' mana/stamina costs are. And think about going for abilities which allow you to recoup mana/stamina, or steal them from enemies.

Do this, and suddenly you will have a character who can use abilities *often*, just like the rest of us.

If you have a Rogue whose DEX is 50 and whose WIL is 15, and who is wearing chain mail, then yeah, you run dry before a long fight is over. That doesn't mean you ask for a system overhaul which would make the game broken (too exploitative) for the rest of us.

[soteria]

What's wrong with wanting to pick the better ability all the time? Do you pick the worse ability all the time? Or half of the time? What kind of argument is that? Further, if you read carefully, you still can chain abilities which do not share a cooldown and you are not fuirther restricted in doing so in a game without stamina bar. In fact, I want to chain abilities even then, when you can't do a thing because you have no stamina.

Not sure what's hard to understand about this. You want to be hitting MORE actives, but putting the abilities on shared cooldowns forces you to use FEWER actives. As it is, I can choose to spend my stamina on Punisher *and* Flurry (which presumably would share a cooldown for your system). With your "fix" now I'm just going to use Punisher 100% of the time. I may as well take Flurry off my bar.   Right now I can actually use all 5 or 6 activated abilities in sequence.  Your "fix" kills that.

Yes, I use "worse" abilities all the time. Why wouldn't I? Unlike you, I have the stamina, because I'm not starting every fight with all my stamina reserved in sustains. Activate them once you're low on stamina, get deathblow, and you'll realize that this issue you're complaining about not being able to use many abilities in combat is a personal problem, not a problem with the game.

Modifié par soteria, 12 février 2010 - 03:10 .

[Frumyfrenzy]

Mlai00 wrote...

You want a character who specializes in special attacks? You know how it can be improved?
It can be improved by you tweaking your character correctly in your inventory menu and in your level-up menu.
In your inventory menu, equip armors and accessories which don't have high fatigue costs, and which give you bonuses to willpower and in-combat stamina regen.
In your level-up menu, invest more points into Willpower. When choosing your next new skill, actually read the tooltips and consider how much the new abilities' mana/stamina costs are. And think about going for abilities which allow you to recoup mana/stamina, or steal them from enemies.
Do this, and suddenly you will have a character who can use abilities *often*, just like the rest of us.
If you have a Rogue whose DEX is 50 and whose WIL is 15, and who is wearing chain mail, then yeah, you run dry before a long fight is over. That doesn't mean you ask for a system overhaul which would make the game broken (too exploitative) for the rest of us.

You're being sarcastic, please stop that. It doesn't help anyone and it surely isn't polite. You do want to be polite, don't you? I know all those things you write. We just disagree if it should work that way or another.

[Frumyfrenzy]

soteria wrote...

Not sure what's hard to understand about this. You want to be hitting MORE actives, but putting the abilities on shared cooldowns forces you to use FEWER actives. As it is, I can choose to spend my stamina on Punisher *and* Flurry (which presumably would share a cooldown for your system). With your "fix" now I'm just going to use Punisher 100% of the time. I may as well take Flurry off my bar.   Right now I can actually use all 5 or 6 activated abilities in sequence.  Your "fix" kills that.
.

I suggested a shared cooldown for Sweep and Whirwind, because someone mentioned this could be to good a combination. Nowhere I said something about Flurry and Punisher. This is why I don't follow your argument.

Since I only played a rogue and will try a warrior now, I definitely try deathblow. And yes, I always thought I only could activate sustained abilities if I have enough stamina.

Modifié par Frumyfrenzy, 12 février 2010 - 04:11 .

[Sylixe]

Wicked 702 wrote...

Sylixe wrote...

You want to know why the game is setup like this OP?  It's setup to look like an MMO and play like an MMO, with spamable abilities.  It also helps drop the difficulty level of the game since you don;t have to worry about how many uses per day you get to use an ability.  If MMO's have proven one thing it's that most players would rather have a game with an easy spam fest of the same ability repeatedly as opposed to actually being forced to think on their feet.

Get used to this style because it's what is easiest to build and it's what the majority wants in their games.

Totally disagree with you. I play a mage. What ability can I spam exactly? I use flame blast, winter's grasp, cone of cold, drain life, arcane bolt, and many others. (Not necessarily in that order.) I generally have to go through all 5 of those spells before the first one is ready to go again. That's not spamming one ability. My rogue only used about 3 actual abilities. But not more than once per battle. Where's the spam.

MMOs are built so that each class has to specialize in something, forcing them to be useless as a lone character, hence the need for interaction with others. The fact that you can solo this game with any of the three classes on nightmare with some solid gameplay means this is not like an MMO at all.

You don't play many MMO's do you?

I have played a mage straight through solo and done almost all the fights using one AoE.  You do realise you can shoot through walls and not agro mobs right?  I mean the AI is really that bad.  In a group all a mage has to do is spam some heals and put a bubble on the taunting tank.  Rinse and repeat for your loot as required.

Using three abilities repeatedly is spam.  It means you are just using the same retarded cooldown cycle every combat and don't have to vary it up at all regardless of the encounter.  You do not need solid game play to play nigtmare either.  The game is a complete and utter joke when it comes to needing any real tactics to beat an encounter.

If you want no spamming you use a D&D rules set where you have a finite amount of uses on a spell per day.  Then you cannot spam the same "best in slot" spell repeatedly.  If you use a cooldown model where an ability is only dependent upon a continuously regenerating resources you are using an MMO model.  If you couldn't spam abilities in DAO the encounters would be a lot more difficult and tactics would be required to defeat them.