179 réponses à ce sujet

[Erucolindo]

This system isn't that much different from the one in ME1 cause every gun you had had a certian number of shots before it over heated. When it did, you couldn't use it for a bit. Now you get a lot more shots but the trade off is once you run out of clips, you have to find another mini-heat sync. The thermal clip basically becomes to hot to offset anymore heat and a new one is needed.

The first system was also, technically,  a limited ammo system in terms of the material you used to fire. According to the codex entry, there was a block of mass in the gun. The gun sheers off a piece of that mass and projects it via mass effect fields. Eventually, you would need to replace that, yet we never had to. It was magically always there.

I don't care how advanced a race is, they will never create a weapon that fire an infinite number of projectiles or an infinite number of energy bolts or beams.

The new system is more realistic, and on normal there are plenty of clips lying around and dropped that you would have to be the worst shot in history to run out so much that you would need to demand an infinite ammo mod. If you are playing on insanity, well you have no excuse because insanity is designed to be extremely difficult. Part of that difficulty is obviously less ammo being dropped or laying about.

The new ammo requirement is part of the new weapons system as a whole, and needing to worry about reloading is part of making combat more tacticle. They won't change that.

[Mendelevosa]

Not to mention that the ammo count actually requires you to be more tactical and actually use your other weapons instead of just spamming endless slugs out of your AR like you could in ME1. Also if you read the codex pages, the Geth had this thermal clip technology and weapon manufactuers thought it as beneficial since you would never have to worry about overheating and then waiting 10 seconds for the weapons to cool down. They then decided to adapt this technology and now everyone in the galaxy uses this weapon technology.

Modifié par Mendelevosa, 11 février 2010 - 04:11 .

[Laterali]

I agree. I like this ammo system, I just wish they'd give ya more sniper ammo, and maybe hand cannon ammo. If they would just take off the limits, so that every thermal clip I find gives me more ammo. 10 rounds for a sniper rifle is pretty sucky...

[Sphaerus]

Heat sink system is KINDA cool, though I'm not sure how realistic I'd call it, if just because mass drivers are fairly heat-efficient and, for some reason, futuristic foldey-guns appear to made from iron or some other ungodly-ineffective conductor of heat (maybe Bakelite).

Right, that's thinking too realistically, got it.

[Roxlimn]

I like that they implemented an ammo system. I don't like that they did it this way. I could do without going over every battlefield post-fight scouring the debris for thermal clips.



Really.



What I would have preferred is for them to have instituted a global cooldown option - as in ME1, your guns have natural cooldown, it's just that the ME2 fields are so powerful and your guns so strong that it takes longer for the heat to bleed off.



In game mechanical terms, I want all guns to reset to full ammo after every encounter automatically. Also, I want guns to reset to full ammo when folded, after 30 continuous seconds of non-use. This way, you can still pick up ammo packs in-battle to renew your heat sinks, but it doesn't become a post-battle chore to be picking up thermal clips.

[banshee768]

What I didn't really get with the old system was that there were no harmful effects to overheating. Try to overheat your CPU or GPU and tell me how well it works after. Or an engine. I would have loved it if the weapon simple broke down and required repairs/replacement.

[gotthammer]

See, the problem is the bit about 'having to find more heat sinks', especially if you take into account the original system in ME1.

I agree w/ the folks who prefer a hybrid: use clips, but when you run out, it reverts to the old system where the weapon overheats. That way, there will be less accusations of 'retcon', and it would make better sense (ok, the heat sink/clip is 'more efficient', but that don't remove the 'tried and tested' method of waiting for the weapon to cooldown).

[Sphaerus]

ABOVE.

Ok, that irked the HELL out of me. What are these heat sinks made of that they don't bleed heat EVER? I know there are apparently-nigh-indestructible materials in Mass Effect, but holy hell, that's not out-and-out doing horrible bedroom antics to thermodynamics.

Taking a pistol to the end-boss-chap was not cool (but it was exciting and terrifying).

Yes, I spray and pray sometimes, it's a bad habit, I need to pulse more.

[ThePatriot101]

I personally contend that an infinite ammo system is a rookie's crutch when they can't do anything but spam bullets rather than take the time to test out other upgrades or mods to their weapons. I have used Heat Sinks or Frictionless Materials on my first time playing, but I learned how to go beyond that and use better mods.



IMHO anyone who staunchly opposes the thermal clips would be better off playing a Doom clone or something that allows the infinite ammo cheat. It'd certainly be more productive than complaining about it.

[gotthammer]

banshee768 wrote...

What I didn't really get with the old system was that there were no harmful effects to overheating. Try to overheat your CPU or GPU and tell me how well it works after. Or an engine. I would have loved it if the weapon simple broke down and required repairs/replacement.

Maybe the overheat warning was there to prevent the user from going past a certain threshold that would lead to weapon damage?

[The Real Him]

Agreed. The majority of us support this change, so don't come back to the old system Bioware.

[FlintlockJazz]

Roxlimn wrote...

I like that they implemented an ammo system. I don't like that they did it this way. I could do without going over every battlefield post-fight scouring the debris for thermal clips.

Really.

What I would have preferred is for them to have instituted a global cooldown option - as in ME1, your guns have natural cooldown, it's just that the ME2 fields are so powerful and your guns so strong that it takes longer for the heat to bleed off.

In game mechanical terms, I want all guns to reset to full ammo after every encounter automatically. Also, I want guns to reset to full ammo when folded, after 30 continuous seconds of non-use. This way, you can still pick up ammo packs in-battle to renew your heat sinks, but it doesn't become a post-battle chore to be picking up thermal clips.

This wouldn't actually be a bad compromise.  If you presume that the reason for using thermal clips is because it takes so long to cool down (think how long it takes a kettle for instance), then you could presume that they don't just chuck the clips away but keep them and that after battle they cool down and can be reused (maybe ammo bandoliers come with built in fridges to cool them faster too, but then I would insist that my character gets to include beer in with his ).

[Dethateer]

Sphaerus wrote...

ABOVE.
Ok, that irked the HELL out of me. What are these heat sinks made of that they don't bleed heat EVER? I know there are apparently-nigh-indestructible materials in Mass Effect, but holy hell, that's not out-and-out doing horrible bedroom antics to thermodynamics.

You mean, compared to ME1's mechanic of cooldown at exactly the same rate regardless of the surrounding enviroment?

[Roxlimn]

Heh. It's just a game mechanical peeve of mine. I think it'd work great that way, and it wouldn't require a huge change. Heck, it could be released in a patch, realistically speaking. Every time the game is saveable - ammo restores to full.



In terms of lore consistency, it'd be best to give all the guns continuous but slow cool down. For instance, you could allow the Vindicator Assault Rifle to regain 1 shot every 3 seconds of it not firing, allowing you to regain the entire full clip in just over a minute - OR, you can use a thermal clip.



It's not going to affect gameplay much, but it'd be a nice touch. No one's going to wait 9 seconds to fire off a single 3 round Vindicator burst.

[exboomer]

Erucolindo wrote...



This system isn't that much different from the one in ME1 cause every gun you had had a certian number of shots before it over heated. When it did, you couldn't use it for a bit. Now you get a lot more shots but the trade off is once you run out of clips, you have to find another mini-heat sync. The thermal clip basically becomes to hot to offset anymore heat and a new one is needed.

The first system was also, technically,  a limited ammo system in terms of the material you used to fire. According to the codex entry, there was a block of mass in the gun. The gun sheers off a piece of that mass and projects it via mass effect fields. Eventually, you would need to replace that, yet we never had to. It was magically always there.

I don't care how advanced a race is, they will never create a weapon that fire an infinite number of projectiles or an infinite number of energy bolts or beams.

The new system is more realistic, and on normal there are plenty of clips lying around and dropped that you would have to be the worst shot in history to run out so much that you would need to demand an infinite ammo mod. If you are playing on insanity, well you have no excuse because insanity is designed to be extremely difficult. Part of that difficulty is obviously less ammo being dropped or laying about.

The new ammo requirement is part of the new weapons system as a whole, and needing to worry about reloading is part of making combat more tacticle. They won't change that.

I have to disagree, if they can bring Shepherd back from the dead then creating a weapon with infinite ammo is child's play.

[Apexprimebest]

2 Erucolindo



1. The thing is that this ScyFy game. So weapons may not be realistic.

2. As for ingame universe - "heatsinks" is a step (a leap) back. From gun's that don't need anything (except for ammo/metal blocks) to keep working, to weapons that depend on finite amount of heatsinks...



2 The Real Him



You are not even close to majority... 100 people posting on this forums is not few millions of people (who don't even registered at this forum) who played first game and see new weapon system as a downgrade...



The perfect way for guns to work in further ME game(s) is hybrid system. You can use heatsinks to instantly cool weapon or wait a sec for it to cooldown.

[Darth Obvious]

I agree with the OP.



The old unlimited ammo thing always seemed like a cheesy cop-out. I'm glad they fixed it.

[Sphaerus]

Dethateer wrote...

Sphaerus wrote...

ABOVE.
Ok, that irked the HELL out of me. What are these heat sinks made of that they don't bleed heat EVER? I know there are apparently-nigh-indestructible materials in Mass Effect, but holy hell, that's not out-and-out doing horrible bedroom antics to thermodynamics.

You mean, compared to ME1's mechanic of cooldown at exactly the same rate regardless of the surrounding enviroment?

Eh, if you're venting 700-degree gasses, who cares if it's a little muggy outside?  That's less a thermodynamic gaff (God I'm a nerd) than ultra-futuristic guns with the worst heat sinks ever.

That being said, I could handwave guns working in space, so I'm not going to complain TOO hard.

[Whitecroc]

I personally would have preferred a hybrid model, but overall I'm not too miffed. I suspect the point of the old system was to remove ammo management, thus removing a possibly archaic mechanic (ammo hunting) as well as allowing classes and abilities to be designed around specific weapon types. Overall, I liked it, but the current system encourages more use of abilities and careful aiming, as far as I can tell.



Something that does bother me is the lack of internal consistency: heat sinks were only developed after the events of the first game, so it's a bit odd to find them all over the place when you're visiting a location that hasn't seen a new arrival since before the events of the first game.

[VironZ]

I like the new one



The unlimited ammo sucked - overheating sucked - waiting for a few minutes in combat sucked - ammo is much better.



Don't change anything in ME:3

[Dualcode]

The old System was weird i agree on that one, but i hate having to run around with absolutely no ammo left. And believe me, using Tempest without doing short bursts, you run out of ammo fast because that weapon has so much recoil, if you dont do bursts, you're out quick. The Issue i have with the new system is..why are there no Ammo/Heatsink Lockers on the Normandy? I mean seriously, there are even missions i come very close to being low on Ammo because there are no heatsinks around and too many enemies. And yet i have to take that old Ammocount over to the next mission? At least give us the option to automatically restock to full ammo on the Ship!

Modifié par Dualcode, 11 février 2010 - 04:52 .

[Apexprimebest]

Darth Obvious wrote...

The old unlimited ammo thing always seemed like a cheesy cop-out. I'm glad they fixed it.

They didn't fixed it, they cutted it... You missed the first part of my post - This is Scy-Fy... Does it says anything to you ?

P.S. I'm cheating on this "improved" system and I'm proud of it !

[Erucolindo]

Dualcode wrote...

The old System was weird i agree on that one, but i hate having to run around with absolutely no ammo left. And believe me, using Tempest without doing short bursts, you run out of ammo fast because that weapon has so much recoil, if you dont do bursts, you're out quick. The Issue i have with the new system is..why are there no Ammo/Heatsink Lockers on the Normandy? I mean seriously, there are even missions i come very close to being low on Ammo because there are no heatsinks around and too many enemies. And yet i have to take that old Ammocount over to the next mission? At least give us the option to automatically restock to full ammo on the Ship!

This i agree with, you would think the armory would have a stockpile of thermal clips.

[Roxlimn]

Dualcode:



Why peeve on that, though? How about asking the Illusive Man to spring for a few grenades or some freaking medigel? I swear, the Illusive Man might be freehanded when it comes to buying you small arms, but Cerberus needs better sourcing for healing consumables.

[Dethateer]

Sphaerus wrote...

Eh, if you're venting 700-degree gasses, who cares if it's a little muggy outside?  That's less a thermodynamic gaff (God I'm a nerd) than ultra-futuristic guns with the worst heat sinks ever.

That being said, I could handwave guns working in space, so I'm not going to complain TOO hard.

Well, being on, say, Noveria, for example, where it is cold enough for you to lose body heat through a space suit, there SHOULD be a diference.