179 réponses à ce sujet

[Dethateer]

First one I met killed me on Casual... I allowed it to get close, and the bastard bodyslammed me.

[Delta426]

New ammo system is great. The only thing I wish is that we were able to redistribute the ammo to our preference. For example trade a couple of smg clips for some sniper ones.

[The_mango55]

The new heat sinks not cooling down on their own and the ammo not being truly universal is most likely a gameplay concern. Kind of like how your shields block the laser from the oculus and punches from a Krogan even though they actually shouldn't.

[JKoopman]

Mendelevosa wrote...

I could have sworn Bioware did this so that you would actually have to use your other weapons other than spam countless bullets out of an AR. And for the people that complain about running out of ammo for AR and snipers, you have pistols and SMG as well for christ's sake. Use them. It's not Bioware's fault that you only use ARs, shotties, or snipers and refuse to use anything else.

Maybe because some people don't like being forced to use weapons they don't like using? I chose to play an Infiltrator in ME1 because I like sniping. I find it enjoyable. What I don't find enjoyable is running into knife fight range and spamming an SMG just because someone in a board room somewhere thought it would be a great idea to force me into having "more fun" with all my weapons.

I don't mind using my sidearm... when the situation calls for it. In ME1 I was a sniping master, but if I was being mobbed by a group of husks or charged by a krogan I would still whip out my pistol and start blasting because those situations don't call for the type of long-range precision that a sniper rifle provides. The difference now is that I can be in an "ideal" sniper situation and still be forced to whip out my pistol and run into close-range simply because I'm out of thermal clips. I want to choose when it's best for me to use which weapon, not have the game choose for me.

For that matter, the new rock-paper-scissors armor/shield system does a good enough job as is of encouraging the player to use a variety of weapons, so there was no need to force the issue yet again with limited ammo. This also presents the problem of potentially being out of thermal clips for the weapon that best combats the enemy I'm facing (for example, running into a shielded heavy mech when I'm out of SMG clips and all I have is a Carnifax pistol and Mantis sniper rifle). It's not tense. It's not tactical. It's just annoying.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

Delta426 wrote...

New ammo system is great. The only thing I wish is that we were able to redistribute the ammo to our preference. For example trade a couple of smg clips for some sniper ones.

I may be wrong here, but sidearms eg. non heavy weapons require heat-sinks, not AMMO. Your gun still works in the same way as Mass Effect 1, but the mechanics of cooldown have changed..that's all.

Modifié par Big_Stupid_Jelly, 11 février 2010 - 07:34 .

[Dethateer]

Delta, goddamnit...

Dethateer wrote...

Silger wrote...

Need answers..
Clips supposed to be universal. Fact. Written in codex.
Problem. Pistol out of heat clips. Bad, cant shoot.
Still have rifle heat clips, Dont want to use rifle. Need heat clips.
Enemies closing, cant use rifle heat clip for pistol? Does not compute!
Universal ammo lies! Could be. Oversight possible too.

For the last time, that happens because otherwise you'd end up like in Deus Ex: Invisible War, when if you ran out of ammo for one weapon, you ran out for all. Which sucked, since in the last level, in particular, there were no ammo drops whatsoever.

[Evil_Weasel]

Erucolindo wrote...



This system isn't that much different from the one in ME1 cause every gun you had had a certian number of shots before it over heated. When it did, you couldn't use it for a bit. Now you get a lot more shots but the trade off is once you run out of clips, you have to find another mini-heat sync. The thermal clip basically becomes to hot to offset anymore heat and a new one is needed.

The first system was also, technically,  a limited ammo system in terms of the material you used to fire. According to the codex entry, there was a block of mass in the gun. The gun sheers off a piece of that mass and projects it via mass effect fields. Eventually, you would need to replace that, yet we never had to. It was magically always there.

I don't care how advanced a race is, they will never create a weapon that fire an infinite number of projectiles or an infinite number of energy bolts or beams.

The new system is more realistic, and on normal there are plenty of clips lying around and dropped that you would have to be the worst shot in history to run out so much that you would need to demand an infinite ammo mod. If you are playing on insanity, well you have no excuse because insanity is designed to be extremely difficult. Part of that difficulty is obviously less ammo being dropped or laying about.

The new ammo requirement is part of the new weapons system as a whole, and needing to worry about reloading is part of making combat more tacticle. They won't change that.

More realistic.....
No race can make an infinate ammo gun.....

You people realize that it takes electricity to power the element zero, as I recall a negitive current makes a mass lowering field. Also it would take electricity to power the mass acelerator coils down the lenght of the barrel.

So your saying it makes more since that they couldnt make a thermal super conducting permanat heat sink that had an over heat lockout safty system, and it was more realistic than.....NEVER CHANGING THE BATERIES. Becouse aparently a race made a gun that never needs to be recarged.

Thing is this is a game, and they can have, and I quot to the best of my memory " thousands of rounds of ammo makeing amunition a non-issue in modern engagments", and guns with infinate electricity, and I dont mind the ammo thing that much, but it is a "off the third turnbuckel, flying backhand to the face retcon" which sorta ofends my sensabilities.

But I did like the ME1 system more, I dont mind the new one so much (kinda neutrel), and as far as the science ficton of the ME1 univers goes it made perfect since.

Modifié par Evil_Weasel, 11 février 2010 - 07:54 .

[Kroniker81]

The Real Him wrote...

Agreed. The majority of us support this change, so don't come back to the old system Bioware.

/rofl
You have no idea what the majority wants so refrain from making such stupid claims.
The ammo system is just a standard system which adds nothing really. Instead of improving on the heat system making it more complex and challenging they went the brain dead uncreative way and just adopted the most boring system and most used system in use since Doom.

JKoopman wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...

I
could have sworn Bioware did this so that you would actually have to
use your other weapons other than spam countless bullets out of an AR.
And for the people that complain about running out of ammo for AR and
snipers, you have pistols and SMG as well for christ's sake. Use them.
It's not Bioware's fault that you only use ARs, shotties, or snipers
and refuse to use anything else.

Maybe because some people don't like being forced
to use weapons they don't like using? I chose to play an Infiltrator in
ME1 because I like sniping. I find it enjoyable. What I don't find
enjoyable is running into knife fight range and spamming an SMG just
because someone in a board room somewhere thought it would be a great
idea to force me into having "more fun" with all my weapons.

I
don't mind using my sidearm... when the situation calls for it. In ME1
I was a sniping master, but if I was being mobbed by a group of husks
or charged by a krogan I would still whip out my pistol and start
blasting because those situations don't call for the type of long-range
precision that a sniper rifle provides. The difference now is that I
can be in an "ideal" sniper situation and still be forced to whip out
my pistol and run into close-range simply because I'm out of thermal
clips. I want to choose when it's best for me to use which weapon, not
have the game choose for me.

For that matter, the new
rock-paper-scissors armor/shield system does a good enough job as is of
encouraging the player to use a variety of weapons, so there was no
need to force the issue yet again with limited ammo. This also presents
the problem of potentially being out of thermal clips for the weapon
that best combats the enemy I'm facing (for example, running into a
shielded heavy mech when I'm out of SMG clips and all I have is a
Carnifax pistol and Mantis sniper rifle). It's not tense. It's not
tactical. It's just annoying.

Exactly.

Modifié par Kroniker81, 11 février 2010 - 08:10 .

[obie191970]

Big_Stupid_Jelly wrote...

It may be that i'm crap at shooters, well I am 41 and my reactions are slowing, but If ME3 is like this, I'll just pass and replay my Mass Effect 1 again..

Please don't equate "crap at shooters" with "41 and my reactions are slowing."  You may be crap at shooters, but being 41 has nothing to do with it.

Maybe a solution for those who dislike the system would be for you being allowed to purchase heat clips.  Money is already tight in this game, so it would hurt those that needed to buy them.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

obie191970 wrote...

Big_Stupid_Jelly wrote...

It may be that i'm crap at shooters, well I am 41 and my reactions are slowing, but If ME3 is like this, I'll just pass and replay my Mass Effect 1 again..

Please don't equate "crap at shooters" with "41 and my reactions are slowing."  You may be crap at shooters, but being 41 has nothing to do with it.

Maybe a solution for those who dislike the system would be for you being allowed to purchase heat clips.  Money is already tight in this game, so it would hurt those that needed to buy them.

I'm sure you didn't mean to be condescending there...did you?

Maybe we could have a coupon day where us poor people who can't shoot straight can be patronised by those who can.

[Dethateer]

Uh, look, no offense, but it really isn't the game's fault if you can't shoot straight...

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

Dethateer wrote...

Uh, look, no offense, but it really isn't the game's fault if you can't shoot straight...

Of course it isn't, and I mean that sincerely not sarcastically; but in the first game my character skills dictated my efficiency with a rifle, not my hand/eye co-ordination.

[Dethateer]

Which was a huge problem in the beginning, because snipers, for example wobbled around, and you had to wait for the perfect moment to press the trigger, which requires faster reflexes than this. Incidentally, I usually failed at that. My reflexes suck.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

Dethateer wrote...

Which was a huge problem in the beginning, because snipers, for example wobbled around, and you had to wait for the perfect moment to press the trigger, which requires faster reflexes than this. Incidentally, I usually failed at that. My reflexes suck.

I have to agree with you about the Sniper Rifle, but then again it didn't require a 'baby and bathwater' approach to it either.

[LoweGear]

Considering that the core mechanics for shooting and aiming weapons in ME2 is largely similar to ME1's, I'm having a hard time believing that. You still needed to be able to train your weapon on the target to be able to to hit them in ME1, which is no different from ME2. In fact, weapons are easier to aim in ME2, since you no longer need to assume a certain stance just to get maximum accuracy, and the wobble on some weapons have decreased significantly, like with Sniper Rifles.



I may have said that I also found ME1's normal difficulty easier than ME2's, but only because of the infinite ammo system.

[Darth Obvious]

Akimb0 wrote...

The idea is that the particle of metal you fire has its mass increased and it's speed adjusted for range, target and other variables. Regardless of that, the amount of metal is so small that you can have thousands of shots per block at least. There is a slight suspension of belief that you have vastly more than enough "block o' metal" to last an entire mission before reloading. 

Don't you mean 'suspension of disbelief'?

Probably shouldn't use the term "realistic" in a game with aliens, faster than light travel, AI races and mass effect fields.

Why is it so hard for some people to understand what is commonly meant by "realism" is a fictional setting? In a given sci-fi universe, there are some things which seem more realistic within the universe's constraints, and other things which seem less realistic. For example, in Star Wars it would not be "realistic" for a rebel mook to defeat a Sith Lord in a duel. When we use the word 'realistic' we are obviously referring to whether something is believable within that universe, facilitating the suspension of disbelief by the audience/player.

It's really pretty simple.

And the fact is that having precise firearms that actually need reloading every now and then just feels a hell of a lot more realistic within the ME universe than the cheesy infinite ammo crap that in part caused ME1 to receive less than stellar reviews about its combat quality..... or immersion, if you prefer.... or realism.

[JrayM16]

I'm not going to say ME1's system was broken but I do see ME2's as neither a step back nor forward. It's just different. It works.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

LoweGear wrote...

Considering that the core mechanics for shooting and aiming weapons in ME2 is largely similar to ME1's, I'm having a hard time believing that. You still needed to be able to train your weapon on the target to be able to to hit them in ME1, which is no different from ME2. In fact, weapons are easier to aim in ME2, since you no longer need to assume a certain stance just to get maximum accuracy, and the wobble on some weapons have decreased significantly, like with Sniper Rifles.

I may have said that I also found ME1's normal difficulty easier than ME2's, but only because of the infinite ammo system.

What you say may be correct, but something definitely doesnt translate from ME1 to ME2, for me anyway; something is definitely OFF, as they say,

[OneDrunkMonk]

I liked not having level 1,2,3,4,5,6,etc. ammo clutering up my inventory. As well I like having ammo type available on the HUD. However I think all ammo types should be available for all squad members. As well I dislike picking up heat sinks and prefer the old system of overheating requiring cooldown.

[obie191970]

Big_Stupid_Jelly wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

Big_Stupid_Jelly wrote...

It may be that i'm crap at shooters, well I am 41 and my reactions are slowing, but If ME3 is like this, I'll just pass and replay my Mass Effect 1 again..

Please don't equate "crap at shooters" with "41 and my reactions are slowing."  You may be crap at shooters, but being 41 has nothing to do with it.

Maybe a solution for those who dislike the system would be for you being allowed to purchase heat clips.  Money is already tight in this game, so it would hurt those that needed to buy them.

I'm sure you didn't mean to be condescending there...did you?

Maybe we could have a coupon day where us poor people who can't shoot straight can be patronised by those who can.

I wasn't being condescending at all.  My first comment was my opinion based on experience.  Myself and all the people I game with are in their forties, yet the only time I hear people complain about their reflexes slowing is on these boards in reference to the clips.

The second part was serious - All these people are coming up with hybrid solutions that would be difficult to pull off,  Just let people buy them, you may have to miss out on an upgrade or two to do it, but at least the player would have that choice.

Modifié par obie191970, 11 février 2010 - 08:58 .

[Dethateer]

Obie, you do know a hybrid system was initally used in the game, right?

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Big_Stupid_Jelly wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Which was a huge problem in the beginning, because snipers, for example wobbled around, and you had to wait for the perfect moment to press the trigger, which requires faster reflexes than this. Incidentally, I usually failed at that. My reflexes suck.

I have to agree with you about the Sniper Rifle, but then again it didn't require a 'baby and bathwater' approach to it either.

I actually quite like what they did with the sniper rifle; it's quite a bit more forgiving.

[obie191970]

Dethateer wrote...

Obie, you do know a hybrid system was initally used in the game, right?

Are you talking in ME1?  Technically it was, but it never came into play.

[Frotality]

"just spamming endless slugs out of your AR like you could in ME1"

which is exactly what i do in ME2. there is no balance in it; how is anything in sci-fi more realistic...than what? modern weapons? the psuedo-scientific explanation from ME2 over the psuedo-scientific explanation over ME1's?

no other game has ever limited a sniper as much as ME2, it doesnt encourage anything tactical, it doesnt encourage using other weapons (why is this good again? what if we like the weapon we have?), it forces me to spray everything with an smg or spam powers instead of firing my incredibly restricted sniper or pistol.

the vast majority of us arent CoD/GoW players, we dont like 30 seconds of bullets flying everywhere spread throughout the game, we dont play on an 'in the moment' basis; we like paced strategy, we like to have options in combat, we like to play it our own way, and we like strategical limitations to make it a rewarding challenge; but ME2 doesnt offer that, an ammo system doesnt immeadiately make it a better game, even if gameplay-wise it isnt much of a problem, 10 rounds for my sniper makes me feel like im running out of ammo before i ever shoot,  much worse than any classis loot system that at least rewards you, scouring the battlefield for 1-3 clips all the time is just redacting the punishment for me daring to shoot 2 enemies with my sniper, or thinking my handcannon with 24 bullets could kill a krogan in less than 12 headshots. not only is the ammo system as imbalanced and broken as the overheat, for rpg players it is much more frustrating than fun; like fuel, its a useless restriction that tests my ability to have fun more than it ever tests skill. all it really changes functionally is the ability to fire a bullet without spending 10mins thinking if its worth it or not; even on insanity it isnt actually a gameplay issue, just a frustration and tension issue; now how is frustration and tension on its own, for its own sake, with no entertaining counter a good thing? functionally its as useless as the overheat system, except instead of getting gradually boring with level and upgrades, it starts off with a frustrating and pointless limitation, and stays that way forever; that is not improvement.

[Dethateer]

obie191970 wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Obie, you do know a hybrid system was initally used in the game, right?

Are you talking in ME1?  Technically it was, but it never came into play.

No, I am talking ME2. Initially, heatsinks cooled down, and you can reenable it yourself.