179 réponses à ce sujet

[Dethateer]

Both systems are retarded from a physics point of view, NOW CAN THIS THREAD DIE? PLEASE?

[OnizukaBlues]

Screw the realism, I enjoyed ME1's ammo system so much more and when added with those heat reducing ammo types you'd be able to shoot no-stop.



This is the only thing I didn't enjoy about ME2; the new ammo, weapons and armour difference.

[TobiasRieper]

I like the way it changed the combat (except for having to search for ammo) but it's most definitely not realistic.

No military force would change to something with a limited amount of ammunition if the other was available, logistically just ridiculous. And how every weapon system uses the same heat sink clip in the entire game (even in the collector's ships you find them for Christ's sake), while it wasn't even among the most advanced technology in the last game (Spectre gear) makes no sense at all.

I'd rather have had them limit the amount of rounds by the quantity of metal in your rifle, and get something along the lines of 'Cerberus tweaked the weapons on board of the Normandy to chip off more metal for each slug so you can do more damage'. And have you pick up metal blocks in the game (which could actually be implemented and spread more easily than complicated heat sinks).

Give each block about 100-200 rounds, include the overheating system of ME 1 and voila. You're problem is fixed while staying true to the canon from the first game.

And instead of the ammo pack upgrade, you just get room for one or two metal blocks on your suit.

Modifié par TobiasRieper, 12 février 2010 - 05:06 .

[Sibbwolf]

TobiasRieper wrote...

I like the way it changed the combat (except for having to search for ammo) but it's most definitely not realistic.

No military force would change to something with a limited amount of ammunition if the other was available,

Lorewise, it's not the ammo that's limited. Just the heatsink degrades or something.

That's not saying the new system is even close to 'perfect'.

Modifié par Sibbwolf, 12 février 2010 - 05:08 .

[DESTRUCT D]

YEAHH!!! AMMO RULES

[Sibbwolf]

/facepalm



The circle will start again...

[TobiasRieper]

Sibbwolf wrote...

TobiasRieper wrote...

I like the way it changed the combat (except for having to search for ammo) but it's most definitely not realistic.

No military force would change to something with a limited amount of ammunition if the other was available,

Lorewise, it's not the ammo that's limited. Just the heatsink degrades or something.

That's not saying the new system is even close to 'perfect'.

I know, but you know what I mean.

Even making it so that the gun would heat up and cool down a lot slower (like, a whole minute or something) and then having the heatsink swappable would've been more believable.

Just don't make it that when I shoot two shots in ten minutes it actually affects the condition of the heatsink, would be rediculous compared to the heatsinks in the first game.

[Dethateer]

Stanley Woo, for the love of all that you hold sacred, by Satan's glorious name I ask of thee to lock this thread and all future ones on this topic.
The thread is going nowhere fast, and the exact same things are argued over and over again.

Modifié par Dethateer, 12 février 2010 - 05:55 .

[Sibbwolf]

TobiasRieper wrote...

Sibbwolf wrote...

TobiasRieper wrote...

I like the way it changed the combat (except for having to search for ammo) but it's most definitely not realistic.

No military force would change to something with a limited amount of ammunition if the other was available,

Lorewise, it's not the ammo that's limited. Just the heatsink degrades or something.

That's not saying the new system is even close to 'perfect'.

I know, but you know what I mean.

Even making it so that the gun would heat up and cool down a lot slower (like, a whole minute or something) and then having the heatsink swappable would've been more believable.

Just don't make it that when I shoot two shots in ten minutes it actually affects the condition of the heatsink, would be rediculous compared to the heatsinks in the first game.

Yeah, myself and Akimb0 talked about this kind of solution in another thread, with it aimed at favouring the sacrificial system for rate of fire, but there always being the internal heat sink (ME1) to fall back on.

Unfortunatly, all progress was lost when extremists popped in to say 'hi'.

[Dethateer]

Extremists pop in to say "hi" because you two seem to think you have OMFG AWESOME IDEA GUISE which has been thought of by at least four dozen people (some in this very thread, iirc), not to mention the old boards and the devs themselves.

[Sibbwolf]

Dethateer wrote...

Extremists pop in to say "hi" because you two seem to think you have OMFG AWESOME IDEA GUISE which has been thought of by at least four dozen people (some in this very thread, iirc), not to mention the old boards and the devs themselves.

Yes. I believe you even talked about a solution, which only works on the PC version, and for people bothered enough to mess with the game files.. We wanted a solution that is legit, unforced, and available for the game on ALL platforms and without messing with game files. We are allowed to discuss it.

Modifié par Sibbwolf, 12 février 2010 - 05:56 .

[TobiasRieper]

Well, I just hope some of the devs got a few looks at some of the 'proper' ideas mentioned in these threads. Might change it again in ME 3 (although that might anger even more people ^^). Although I guess it's hard to find relative information in the mass of comments here. (I've been whining about it myself too much already, and actually didn't read this entire thread, I'm sure plenty of ppl have already mentioned all these things before, but hey, I can still voice my opinion ^^)

Still think it's mighty brave of Bioware to make such a large modification in order to improve game dynamics and combat intensity. I can only applaud them for at least trying to make it believable (although I think they kinda failed on that part).

Modifié par TobiasRieper, 12 février 2010 - 05:58 .

[Dethateer]

Sibbwolf wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Extremists pop in to say "hi" because you two seem to think you have OMFG AWESOME IDEA GUISE which has been thought of by at least four dozen people (some in this very thread, iirc), not to mention the old boards and the devs themselves.

Yes. I believe you even talked about a solution, which only works on the PC version, and for people bothered enough to mess with the game files.. We wanted a solution that is legit, unforced, and available for the game on ALL platforms and without messing with game files. We are allowed to discuss it.

My point in that message was that you are not the first to think of the hybrid ammo system.

[Sibbwolf]

Dethateer wrote...

My point in that message was that you are not the first to think of the hybrid ammo system.

And my point was that you saying that dosen't mean "we" can't discuss it. You don't have to read our posts. You don't have to respond.

[Dethateer]

I didn't say you can't discuss it, I just said you should stop saying it's "your idea" or, "a better ammo system you've come up with".

[ShepMania]

Dethateer wrote...

Both systems are retarded from a physics point of view, NOW CAN THIS THREAD DIE? PLEASE?

If you don't mind the retcon aspect, the ME2 system makes perfect sense from the physics standpoint.  Consider that the weapons must generate massive amounts of heat - more then can be dissipated to air in a few hours.  Put a clip in the weapon containing a solid with a high latent heat of fusion.  Fire a few shots, the solid absorbs massive amounts of energy - but once it's melted the clip's spent (as it'll take hours, who knows, days to cool down), eject it, repeat.

The retcon throws a spanner in the works though as clearly in the first one air was sufficient cooling.... but who cares, the new system is more fun .

[Sibbwolf]

Dethateer wrote...

I didn't say you can't discuss it, I just said you should stop saying it's "your idea" or, "a better ammo system you've come up with".

Err.. "talked about", "discussed". Not to mention I'd seen mentions of the "hybrid system" but no real detail. We throw around our ideas, mix with other peoples to arrive at a possible solution. Or do the meanings of "discussion" and "debate" vanish whe you're around?

[Dethateer]

ShepMania wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Both systems are retarded from a physics point of view, NOW CAN THIS THREAD DIE? PLEASE?

If you don't mind the retcon aspect, the ME2 system makes perfect sense from the physics standpoint.  Consider that the weapons must generate massive amounts of heat - more then can be dissipated to air in a few hours.  Put a clip in the weapon containing a solid with a high latent heat of fusion.  Fire a few shots, the solid absorbs massive amounts of energy - but once it's melted the clip's spent (as it'll take hours, who knows, days to cool down), eject it, repeat.

The retcon throws a spanner in the works though as clearly in the first one air was sufficient cooling.... but who cares, the new system is more fun .

Heat dissipates rather fast, actually, even if something is several hundred degrees (and the sinks obviously aren't excessively hot, in the thousand degree-range, if they were they'd damage the weapons), it will cool down to acceptable levels in a few hours (metal cools fast enough to lose the heat glow in a matter of minutes, that's why blacksmithing is hard work). You could say that the thermal clips get damaged and can't take the same amount of heat next time, though.

Sibbwolf wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

I
didn't say you can't discuss it, I just said you should stop saying it's
"your idea" or, "a better ammo system you've come up with".

Err..
"talked about", "discussed". Not to mention I'd seen mentions of the
"hybrid system" but no real detail. We throw around our ideas, mix with
other peoples to arrive at a possible solution. Or do the meanings of
"discussion" and "debate" vanish whe you're around?

Each and every single time, that system has been detailed in the exact same way you guys have.

Modifié par Dethateer, 12 février 2010 - 06:47 .

[Sibbwolf]

Dethateer wrote...

Each and every single time, that system has been detailed in the exact same way you guys have.

Then we'll have to disagree here. I have yet to see anyone else go to that level of detail. Now drop it, since you've already admitted people have the right to discuss it.

[Zem_]

Sibbwolf wrote...

/facepalm

The circle will start again...

No way!  Someone is going to WIN this argument.  You'll see!!

[EvilChani]

Dethateer wrote...

You DO realize Shep was an elite soldier trained in the use of every single weapon, right? There is no excuse for him being unable to hit the broad side of a barn.
And that's exactly the point, as an infiltrator, for example, for at least 10 levels you couldn't hit a damned thing with the rifle.

Oh, I'm well aware of that, but that's what you get with a RPG. No matter how good a fighter you supposedly are before the game begins, you begin a game without the ability to walk and chew gum at the same time and can barely handle a weapon without hurting yourself. No matter how rich you were, you don't have a damned dime to your name. It has always irked me - I think you should begin a RPG with a set of skills, a good amount of cash, and some resources unless there is some reasonable explanation given in the story why you don't have those things - but I let it go because I know that's simply how RPGs are. And, since I'd rather play a RPG than a shooter and, therefore, prefer my character's abilities to rely on the character rather than my ability with a controller, I had no problem waiting ten levels before Shepard could actually make a shot with the sniper rifle. Until the skill was developed enough, I used a pistol and spent the rest of the time either using Overload every chance I got or running around in an attempt to avoid getting my head blown off.

[Dethateer]

Sibbwolf wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Each and every single time, that system has been detailed in the exact same way you guys have.

Then we'll have to disagree here. I have yet to see anyone else go to that level of detail.

One (even more detailed than yours)
Two
And these are only the ones I didn't miss, last posted in within 3 days, and, as per your request, detailed.

[yowave]

Erucolindo wrote...



This system isn't that much different from the one in ME1 cause every gun you had had a certian number of shots before it over heated. When it did, you couldn't use it for a bit. Now you get a lot more shots but the trade off is once you run out of clips, you have to find another mini-heat sync. The thermal clip basically becomes to hot to offset anymore heat and a new one is needed.

The first system was also, technically,  a limited ammo system in terms of the material you used to fire. According to the codex entry, there was a block of mass in the gun. The gun sheers off a piece of that mass and projects it via mass effect fields. Eventually, you would need to replace that, yet we never had to. It was magically always there.

I don't care how advanced a race is, they will never create a weapon that fire an infinite number of projectiles or an infinite number of energy bolts or beams.

The new system is more realistic, and on normal there are plenty of clips lying around and dropped that you would have to be the worst shot in history to run out so much that you would need to demand an infinite ammo mod. If you are playing on insanity, well you have no excuse because insanity is designed to be extremely difficult. Part of that difficulty is obviously less ammo being dropped or laying about.

The new ammo requirement is part of the new weapons system as a whole, and needing to worry about reloading is part of making combat more tacticle. They won't change that.

Behold, the truth...
Agree with you, it's a good change.

[Sibbwolf]

Dethateer wrote...

Sibbwolf wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Each and every single time, that system has been detailed in the exact same way you guys have.

Then we'll have to disagree here. I have yet to see anyone else go to that level of detail.

One (even more detailed than yours)

Posted 10 days ago.

Also not posted as talking about ammo. I've not been paying attention to other threads since most of the gameplay I've had no quarrels with.

Also, he talks about a much wider use of the ammo, not just sticking to providing a solution to this "problem".

Two

Is not more detailed, also takes a different approach.

Thus why our discussion is just as valid as any other.

Anyway, thanks for completely and pointlessly derailing a perfectly civil discussion (there was a lot of less-than-civil on those two). Bye now!

Modifié par Sibbwolf, 12 février 2010 - 09:21 .

[yowave]

Thermal Clips are good for your health

On normal you can find them at every corner!

Still playing on my first run (Hardcore), 54Hours of gameplay -

I am having fun like no one else, playing like 2-6 hours each day that pass by.

Today i am downloading BattleStar Galactica, what do you say about this show?