114 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerdage]

fchopin wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Jory was a good fighter, it was Duncan’s fault for not explaining the joining ritual correctly.

I have to disagree. Why should Jory get the in-depth explanation of what the Joining was before he agreed to being a Grey Warden when no one else did?

Very simple, it was Duncan’s fault for every person he recruited.
 
There is not one person on the planet who would have joined if they new what it meant.

What about the legion of the dead? That's basically a death sentence but people still recruit.

[Sandtigress]

Most of the dwarves who join the Legion of the Dead do so because they have no choice - they're criminals or broke or something like that that would cause great hardship or dishonor to their families. So they join and "die" in order to help their families as well as fight the darkspawn.



The other difference I see is that the dwarves are intimately aware of the threat of the darkspawn. As they say "Your Blight is our every day." Dwarves understand why some have to go fight. The surface races tend to ignore the darkspawn until they can't anymore, then expect someone else to do the fighting.



Not to say, of course, that your point isn't valid in that there are individuals who do choose to make the sacrifice.

[Sandtigress]

Most of the dwarves who join the Legion of the Dead do so because they have no choice - they're criminals or broke or something like that that would cause great hardship or dishonor to their families. So they join and "die" in order to help their families as well as fight the darkspawn.



The other difference I see is that the dwarves are intimately aware of the threat of the darkspawn. As they say "Your Blight is our every day." Dwarves understand why some have to go fight. The surface races tend to ignore the darkspawn until they can't anymore, then expect someone else to do the fighting.



Not to say, of course, that your point isn't valid in that there are individuals who do choose to make the sacrifice.

[Jahannam]

Sandtigress wrote...

Most of the dwarves who join the Legion of the Dead do so because they have no choice - they're criminals or broke or something like that that would cause great hardship or dishonor to their families. So they join and "die" in order to help their families as well as fight the darkspawn.

Thats a choice...may not be a good one due to the consequences but it is still a choice to be legion of the dead.

[fchopin]

nerdage wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Jory was a good fighter, it was Duncan’s fault for not explaining the joining ritual correctly.

I have to disagree. Why should Jory get the in-depth explanation of what the Joining was before he agreed to being a Grey Warden when no one else did?

Very simple, it was Duncan’s fault for every person he recruited.
 
There is not one person on the planet who would have joined if they new what it meant.

What about the legion of the dead? That's basically a death sentence but people still recruit.

Are you saying if this was real life you would become a warden and become a monster like what you would be fighting so other people would come to kill you?
 
In the legion you are not a monster but a person fighting monsters.

[Jahannam]

fchopin wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Jory was a good fighter, it was Duncan’s fault for not explaining the joining ritual correctly.

I have to disagree. Why should Jory get the in-depth explanation of what the Joining was before he agreed to being a Grey Warden when no one else did?

Very simple, it was Duncan’s fault for every person he recruited.
 
There is not one person on the planet who would have joined if they new what it meant.

So...people wont do something if they know it means they may die?

I beg to differ. Look at any military thats voluntary. They know the risk...they fight wars and in war people die. Every day people put themselves in a position that they know they may not walk away from.

There are pleanty of people that would do it if they knew what it meant. People jump in rivers to sav someone drowning. Pull people from burning cars. Jump a guy with a gun robbing a store. Add your own.

Not one person would do it? Yes, you are right...there would be far more than one.

[Hayllee]

Monica21 wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Jory was a good fighter, it was Duncan’s fault for not explaining the joining ritual correctly.

I have to disagree. Why should Jory get the in-depth explanation of what the Joining was before he agreed to being a Grey Warden when no one else did?

Very simple, it was Duncan’s fault for every person he recruited.
 
There is not one person on the planet who would have joined if they new what it meant.

Considering that Grey Wardens are the only people who can stop the Blight, and everyone and everything will die without killing the Archdemon, that's an overstatement at best. There are quite a few who have nothing to lose (Daveth) and others who would see it as a legitimate sacrifice for the greater good.

I don't know if someone's already commented on this, but didn't Arl Howe simply kill everyone in Castle Highever?

[Sylvius the Mad]

fchopin wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Jory was a good fighter, it was Duncan’s fault for not explaining the joining ritual correctly.

I have to disagree. Why should Jory get the in-depth explanation of what the Joining was before he agreed to being a Grey Warden when no one else did?

Very simple, it was Duncan’s fault for every person he recruited.
 
There is not one person on the planet who would have joined if they new what it meant.

That's why it's important that he not explain it to anyone.

[fchopin]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Jory was a good fighter, it was Duncan’s fault for not explaining the joining ritual correctly.

I have to disagree. Why should Jory get the in-depth explanation of what the Joining was before he agreed to being a Grey Warden when no one else did?

Very simple, it was Duncan’s fault for every person he recruited.
 
There is not one person on the planet who would have joined if they new what it meant.

That's why it's important that he not explain it to anyone.

Yes i know that but what the wardens are doing is in effect making sure that darkspawn will never become extinct as all the wardens will eventually become similar monsters unless all of them die or commit suicide.
 
I think bioware will probably change this in the expansion and find a cure for this disease.

Edit: It is even possible that Duncan knows more than he told Alistair and there may be a cure.

Modifié par fchopin, 11 février 2010 - 09:35 .

[T-Kay]

Duncan recruited Ser Jory as a joke. I'm sure of it. Probably struck a deal with someone.



You should have the option to recruit Grey Wardens yourself. That way you can recruit everyone you don't like and when they die during the ritual you can tell them: sorry it didn't work out.

[Sarielle]

fchopin wrote...

Edit: It is even possible that Duncan knows more than he told Alistair and there may be a cure.

If that were true, I would find it hard to believe that Duncan (who admitted to having the nightmares again -- IE, getting close to his time) wouldn't have attempted to cure himself, then.

EDIT; As to Ser Jory, I'd imagine he didn't want his trip to be wasted, and Jory proved himself the most capable fighter at the tourney. Unfortunately, skill in arms isn't all that's required for a Grey Warden, but by that point, it's sort of hard for Duncan to be all "...uh, just joking guys!"

Modifié par Sarielle, 11 février 2010 - 09:47 .

[fchopin]

Jahannam wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Jory was a good fighter, it was Duncan’s fault for not explaining the joining ritual correctly.

I have to disagree. Why should Jory get the in-depth explanation of what the Joining was before he agreed to being a Grey Warden when no one else did?

Very simple, it was Duncan’s fault for every person he recruited.
 
There is not one person on the planet who would have joined if they new what it meant.

So...people wont do something if they know it means they may die?

I beg to differ. Look at any military thats voluntary. They know the risk...they fight wars and in war people die. Every day people put themselves in a position that they know they may not walk away from.

There are pleanty of people that would do it if they knew what it meant. People jump in rivers to sav someone drowning. Pull people from burning cars. Jump a guy with a gun robbing a store. Add your own.

Not one person would do it? Yes, you are right...there would be far more than one.

So you would join and after you become a monster you will be killing all the people you saved yes.
 
Who will be the first you would kill, the one you saved by jumping in the river?

[fchopin]

Sarielle wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Edit: It is even possible that Duncan knows more than he told Alistair and there may be a cure.

If that were true, I would find it hard to believe that Duncan (who admitted to having the nightmares again -- IE, getting close to his time) wouldn't have attempted to cure himself, then.

EDIT; As to Ser Jory, I'd imagine he didn't want his trip to be wasted, and Jory proved himself the most capable fighter at the tourney. Unfortunately, skill in arms isn't all that's required for a Grey Warden, but by that point, it's sort of hard for Duncan to be all "...uh, just joking guys!"

We have no idea what happened to Duncan, only bioware knows.
 
No, Duncan would not cure himself until the last minute as he needs to do his job.

[ejoslin]

Alistair really liked Ser Jory, didn't think much of Daveth, so my guess is that Jory really presented himself quite differently until actually facing the dark spawn.  Either that, or Alistair wasn't much of a judge of character (ducking).

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 février 2010 - 09:59 .

[Sarielle]

fchopin wrote...

We have no idea what happened to Duncan, only bioware knows.
 
No, Duncan would not cure himself until the last minute as he needs to do his job.

I still don't see where you got the impression there was a cure from the game. By all accounts, there isn't one.

[_Aine_]

Sarielle wrote...

[I still don't see where you got the impression there was a cure from the game. By all accounts, there isn't one.

True, i havent uncovered it ingame yet anyway lol  Now the books...different story.   I finally finished the Calling the other night.... made me wish there was a book 3 

[fchopin]

Sarielle wrote...

fchopin wrote...

We have no idea what happened to Duncan, only bioware knows.
 
No, Duncan would not cure himself until the last minute as he needs to do his job.

I still don't see where you got the impression there was a cure from the game. By all accounts, there isn't one.

I am only assuming that there is a cure because i cannot see anyone joining willingly to becoming something similar to what they are supposed to be fighting.
 
I also think bioware will have some sort of answer in the expansion or this does not make sense to me.

[Sarielle]

fchopin wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

fchopin wrote...

We have no idea what happened to Duncan, only bioware knows.
 
No, Duncan would not cure himself until the last minute as he needs to do his job.

I still don't see where you got the impression there was a cure from the game. By all accounts, there isn't one.

I am only assuming that there is a cure because i cannot see anyone joining willingly to becoming something similar to what they are supposed to be fighting.
 
I also think bioware will have some sort of answer in the expansion or this does not make sense to me.

...but that's the thing. You don't know until after you join. And that's why Wardens go to the Deep Roads after all...when they feel themselves slipping, they just end it in a blaze of glory.

[fchopin]

shantisands wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

[I still don't see where you got the impression there was a cure from the game. By all accounts, there isn't one.

True, i havent uncovered it ingame yet anyway lol  Now the books...different story.   I finally finished the Calling the other night.... made me wish there was a book 3 

Is there any sort of answer in the books?
 
I don’t want to know the answer by the way.

[Sarielle]

fchopin wrote...

shantisands wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

[I still don't see where you got the impression there was a cure from the game. By all accounts, there isn't one.

True, i havent uncovered it ingame yet anyway lol  Now the books...different story.   I finally finished the Calling the other night.... made me wish there was a book 3 

Is there any sort of answer in the books?
 
I don’t want to know the answer by the way.

Currently reading Stolen Throne. They haven't mentioned one yet! hehe.

[fchopin]

Sarielle wrote...

...but that's the thing. You don't know until after you join. And that's why Wardens go to the Deep Roads after all...when they feel themselves slipping, they just end it in a blaze of glory.

The wardens do go to the deep roads if they still have control, if they leave it late then its lunch time.
 
If there is a cure Duncan would know and it would make the joining ok to me, now it does not make sense.

[fchopin]

Sarielle wrote...


Currently reading Stolen Throne. They haven't mentioned one yet! hehe.

Maybe in the next book.

[elearon1]

>>I think bioware will probably change this in the expansion and find a cure for this disease.<<



I doubt it, that would be a serious coppout for a world that is supposed to be dark and gritty. Actually, I would have liked to see the 'do anything, no matter how horrible, to stop the blight' thing played up a little more.



The issue about the ritual: The conscripted don't have a choice, they are required to go through the binding, but if they knew it could quite possibly lead to their deaths you'd have many running off at the first opportunity - even if it meant killing their way through a Grey Warden to do so ... better to take your fate in your own hands than let it rely on chance.



For everyone else, they don't need to know. As someone else stated, if the world knew the Wardens were tainting themselves to do their duty it is quite possible they'd be labelled as monsters themselves by those who could not understand the necessity. (especially when most people have come to believe there will be no more blights) Is it unfair to those who volunteer, sure, but I do get the impression they are told becoming a Grey Warden is dangerous ... that they aren't told the whole truth isn't the issue ... even if half of all volunteers died in the joining the numbers of the Wardens increases, and that is all that is important to them.



The Wardens carry a responsibility no one else can bear - that doesn't leave a lot of room for the weak willed and bleeding heart.

[elearon1]

Okay, you know, people need to get a grip on the fact that not all endings are happy, not all diseases can be cured, not all zealots are honest. Becoming a Warden is a death sentence, but it is better than seeing the world overcome by darkspawn - you are not given a choice because to the Wardens there is no such thing ... when the darkspawn come you either die fighting or you die running ... the idea of those in power making life and death decisions for those beneath them is not new.