114 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

fchopin wrote...
No answer, so we are playing a game with no answers? 
What is wrong with killing, be it wardens or darkspawn, my rogue likes action.

Your answer would result in the darkspawn overrunning the world, hence it's a terrible one. Making up answers doesn't mean there is one, it just means "hey, I think it would be better if there were a cure." Well, duh, but there isn't. If you've read any of the codex entries (and I strongly suspect at this point that you haven't) then you know this is the fifth blight. There are seven old gods. Two more blights to go and the world is finished with blights but not necessarily finished with the darkspawn.

[T-Kay]

I liked Ser Jory's reasoning when he said: "I have a wife and kids, if I had known...". Seriously he's a battle hardened warrior and he's afraid he might die. If Duncan hadn't gutted him I would have.

[Cancermeat]

sometimes you can't be picky...

[FierachEredasSoulchiou]

Why the hell are you guys even trying to argue with her?

[Sarielle]

fchopin wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

fchopin wrote...

well can you come up with a better solution?

That's appallingly bad reasoning.

That
we don't have a better answer than yours is not evidence that your answer is good.  Your answer is terrible, and we don't have a better one because there isn't an answer.

No answer, so we are playing a game with no answers?
 
What is wrong with killing, be it wardens or darkspawn, my rogue likes action. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png

Because WITH the Grey Wardens, darkspawn still exist but they are contained so that few people have even ever seen one. WITHOUT Grey Wardens, the world is overrun.

Now, if that's what you want to happen, then okay, I suppose.

Monica21 wrote...

Well, duh, but there isn't. If you've read any of the codex entries (and I strongly suspect at this point that you haven't) then you know this is the fifth blight.

I also strongly suspect the poster is a child, which may account for difficulty grasping certain concepts.


-edited because of stupid forum reformatting-

Modifié par Sarielle, 12 février 2010 - 01:27 .

[fchopin]

Monica21 wrote...

fchopin wrote...
No answer, so we are playing a game with no answers? 
What is wrong with killing, be it wardens or darkspawn, my rogue likes action.

Your answer would result in the darkspawn overrunning the world, hence it's a terrible one. Making up answers doesn't mean there is one, it just means "hey, I think it would be better if there were a cure." Well, duh, but there isn't. If you've read any of the codex entries (and I strongly suspect at this point that you haven't) then you know this is the fifth blight. There are seven old gods. Two more blights to go and the world is finished with blights but not necessarily finished with the darkspawn.

If no cure it’s no problem for my rogue, ultimate sacrifice for 90% of my games, the best ending in the game for me.

[Sarielle]

FierachEredasSoulchiou wrote...

Why the hell are you guys even trying to argue with her?

Because I'm not certain it's wilful ignorance.

Modifié par Sarielle, 12 février 2010 - 01:29 .

[Sarielle]

EDIT: Augh. Doublepost.

Modifié par Sarielle, 12 février 2010 - 01:30 .

[nubbers666]

Chasedanger wrote...

He's a big dude and handy in a fight. But yes, he's a big **** when he faces the unknown. Thereby making him pretty useless as a Warden. So ummm....yeah WTF DID Duncan pick his ass, lol. He should have just told him go home the second he started whining. I can picture now...
Jory "how much farther to Ostagar now Duncan?"
Duncan: "Not far now"
Jory: "Are we there yet, these woods are quite cold?" ...
Duncan: "Oh SHUT UP you annoying son of a genlock!"

probly why he enjoyed killing him in the end lmao:devil:

[fchopin]

katie916 wrote...

Chasedanger wrote...

He's a big dude and handy in a fight. But yes, he's a big **** when he faces the unknown. Thereby making him pretty useless as a Warden. So ummm....yeah WTF DID Duncan pick his ass, lol. He should have just told him go home the second he started whining. I can picture now...
Jory "how much farther to Ostagar now Duncan?"
Duncan: "Not far now"
Jory: "Are we there yet, these woods are quite cold?" ...
Duncan: "Oh SHUT UP you annoying son of a genlock!"

probly why he enjoyed killing him in the end lmao:devil:

If the man had to die bioware could at least have given my rogue the option to do the killing.:innocent:

[draxynnus]

Sarielle wrote...

EDIT; As to Ser Jory, I'd imagine he didn't want his trip to be wasted, and Jory proved himself the most capable fighter at the tourney. Unfortunately, skill in arms isn't all that's required for a Grey Warden, but by that point, it's sort of hard for Duncan to be all "...uh, just joking guys!"

The Wardens don't have to take the winner of the tourney, though - they can take someone else if they think they're more suited (see Alistair, for instance). So unless Ser Jory really was the best of a bad lot...

My suspicion is that he wasn't a coward, but he did fail to read the proverbial fine print. While the ritual itself isn't public knowledge, it is reasonably well known that becoming a Grey Warden is something that means you can't go back to your old life - but Ser Jory clearly expected to be able to do just that if he survived the Blight (go home and raise a family with his wife). When we meet him, he's already a bit shaky from having started to come to the realisation that this isn't the case and because he's just heard of this mysterious ritual, and once he does learn what it is, and sees what happens to Daveth... at that point he cracks completely.

On the Grey Warden thing: There's no evidence that wiping out the Wardens would do anything to prevent the Darkspawn from building their numbers up, and plenty of evidence to the contrary. Killing off the Wardens is not a solution to the Darkspawn problem. Removing all of the potential Archdemons from their reach may prevent Blights, but this might just mean that they'd keep building up in the Deep Roads until they overrun the dwarves and spill out onto the surface anyway.

Probably the only solution is to try to locate every single broodmother and destroy it, and for this you need elite forces that can get into the Deep Roads and locate and slay the broodmothers without becoming ghouls in the process. At the moment, that means Grey Wardens. (While it appears that the chance of being infected in any given battle actually seems to be fairly small if the soldiers don't do anything stupid (it seems to be spread via ingestion, so just do your best not to swallow anything that came from a Darkspawn), even a small chance can become a large one if you're constantly fighting...)

Modifié par draxynnus, 12 février 2010 - 02:32 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

fchopin wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

fchopin wrote...

well can you come up with a better solution?

That's appallingly bad reasoning.

That we don't have a better answer than yours is not evidence that your answer is good.  Your answer is terrible, and we don't have a better one because there isn't an answer.

No answer, so we are playing a game with no answers?

Just like the real world.

[guytza]

Something just occurred to me.



Jory: A soldier professionally trained to fight, wins the tournament seeking the honor and glory of being one of the fabeled Grey Wardens.

Daveth: A criminal forcibly conscripted to the Wardens rather than hanging from the Gallows, he is trained in stealth and has ample time and opportunity to escape his conscription (at the very least once in the Wilds, which he admits is not far from where he grew up.)



Given the little background we are given, one would assume Daveth and not Jory would turn tail and run, thieves by their nature arent prone to self sacrifice compared to a knight. Instead Daveth is nearly unflappable in the face of darkspawn even cracking jokes ("hear that Ser Knight, they may kill us but at least we'll have warning") While Jory begins to fall apart almost immediately. Story wise the lesson is there, Grey Wardens are not made because of their strength or skill but rather their mental fortitude. Makes it all the more of a loss when Daveth dies in the joining.

[Darkannex]

While Duncan did not *have* to take Jory just because he won - there were...extenuating circumstances for him taking Alistair. For those that believe him to be Fiona's child, Ducan promised to 'look after him' which certainly precludes him from being miserable in a Chantry Templar role. (Of course-Duncan gets to have his cake and eat it too by subjecting the ever grateful Alistair to a potentially deadly induction - anything to protect Fereldan from the blight!)

For those that do NOT believe Alistair is Fiona's child - Duncan has shown some compassion so long as it does not conflict with what he wants. Thus he is willing to save the Noble PC and her/his mother so long as the PC joins the wardens. He's willing to save Daveth's life but recruits him, he saves the noble dwarf- etc etc. So saving an unhappy alistair does not fall too far from belief.



But the fact that Jory did win the tourney and was apparently 'eager' to join - why wouldn't Duncan take a proven warrior that was willing to serve and showed his bravest face towards Duncan. (Notice that Jory only whined when Duncan wasn't around? At least til the joining itself)

[Hyper Cutter]

guytza wrote...

Something just occurred to me.

Jory: A soldier professionally trained to fight, wins the tournament seeking the honor and glory of being one of the fabeled Grey Wardens.
Daveth: A criminal forcibly conscripted to the Wardens rather than hanging from the Gallows, he is trained in stealth and has ample time and opportunity to escape his conscription (at the very least once in the Wilds, which he admits is not far from where he grew up.)

Given the little background we are given, one would assume Daveth and not Jory would turn tail and run, thieves by their nature arent prone to self sacrifice compared to a knight. Instead Daveth is nearly unflappable in the face of darkspawn even cracking jokes ("hear that Ser Knight, they may kill us but at least we'll have warning") While Jory begins to fall apart almost immediately. Story wise the lesson is there, Grey Wardens are not made because of their strength or skill but rather their mental fortitude. Makes it all the more of a loss when Daveth dies in the joining.

That may have to do with the fact that Daveth had nothing to lose at that point, iirc.

[Thor Rand Al]

ervanol wrote...

Another thing I do not understand is why Soris, your companion in the City Elf origin, isn't recruited. He fights alongside you your way into the castle. I think in my game he even made the killing blow to Vaughan, yet he isn't good enough for the Grey Wardens and takes the heat of the crimes you have committed together with him.

In the HN origin I actually got to ask Duncan "What about Ser Gilmore" because when you start the game your under the impression that's why Duncan's there to recruit Gilmore.  He came right out n told me that I was the one that he was interested in.  Not sure if you got to ask Duncan that in your origin but I assume that if you did get that option it would be the same response as the HN.


As far as Jory, well Jory does say there was some kind of tournament (I believe it was Duncan's way of finding recruitments) n Jory's the 1 that won it.  Unfortunately no one find's out until later that he's not up for it.  Battling another person in a battle's completely different then fighting darkspawn n whatever else we have to come across.  Jory had enough backbone to impress Duncan but when it came right down to it, unfortunately he didn't have enough.


Edit:

Modifié par Thor Rand Al, 13 février 2010 - 05:31 .

[Stuffy38]

Thor Rand Al wrote...
As far as Jory, well Jory does say there was some kind of tournament (I believe it was Duncan's way of finding recruitments) n Jory's the 1 that won it.  Unfortunately no one find's out until later that he's not up for it.  Battling another person in a battle's completely different then fighting darkspawn n whatever else we have to come across.  Jory had enough backbone to impress Duncan but when it came right down to it, unfortunately he didn't have enough.

Yep poor Ser Jory won the booby prize I think. 

However Duncan states in the Dalish origin that he does not offer places in the Grey Wardens if he does not think the person is of the required calibre (or words to that effect).  He's been recruiting for a while and you'd have to defer to his experience in picking candidates.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

fchopin wrote...

If i was king i would sooner or later would wipe all the wardens and make sure none would be left, or find a cure to stop this disease.
 

Well, we did sort of have a quasi-king who thought this was a brilliant idea. His name was Loghain.
And well, as we see in game, it didn't turn out to well for anyone.

Darkspawn come from broodmothers. Broodmothers come from females that have been corrupted and transformed through unusual means. it takes more than simply having a darkspawn taint to become one. Weird things are done to the unlucky female first. Almost all of these females are simple non-Warden types who were dragged off alive from the surface or dwarf settlements and taken to the deep roads where they get...broodmothered.

A grey warden female will not simply turn into a brood mother because she has the taint. it is a far more involved process than that.

[fchopin]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

fchopin wrote...

If i was king i would sooner or later would wipe all the wardens and make sure none would be left, or find a cure to stop this disease.
 

Well, we did sort of have a quasi-king who thought this was a brilliant idea. His name was Loghain.
And well, as we see in game, it didn't turn out to well for anyone.

Darkspawn come from broodmothers. Broodmothers come from females that have been corrupted and transformed through unusual means. it takes more than simply having a darkspawn taint to become one. Weird things are done to the unlucky female first. Almost all of these females are simple non-Warden types who were dragged off alive from the surface or dwarf settlements and taken to the deep roads where they get...broodmothered.

A grey warden female will not simply turn into a brood mother because she has the taint. it is a far more involved process than that.

Yes i agree with you and i know that it takes more effort to turn the pc in to a broodmother if you play as a female.
 
But it does not change the fact that Duncan was manipulative and although i like him and he is a great character i don’t like being tricked in to becoming a monster.
 
I don’t see any difference from being bitten by a vampire, you turn in a few days from a vampire but it takes a few years from the ritual. In the end you still become a monster, this is not anything new it has been done before many times.
 
I  would never accept this no matter the reason, this being a game it makes it acceptable as it is not real life so we enjoy the game but i expect better answers from the expansion.
 
For Loghain i always kill him the first chance i get not because he wants to kill the wardens but because he promised to help the king and then left everyone to die.

[Sabriana]

fchopin wrote...

Is there any sort of answer in the books?
 
I don’t want to know the answer by the way.

Yeah. Sort of. I can't say any more, that would spoil it.

[Aratham Darksight]

I think Jory would have made a passable Warden. Not great, definitely not leadership material, but good enough. He got over his fear of fighting Darkspawn and was more level-headed in dealing with Flemeth than Daveth was. The only real mistake was not making him drink first.

You only need to drink once and then the worst is over. Even if he's upset about the effects of the taint, he can't run from it. Just tell him the truth when he has time to freak out without endangering anything and he'd accept it eventually, I think. He's slow to adjust, but with some firm leadership, he'd have done his duty.

[fchopin]

Sabriana wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Is there any sort of answer in the books?
 
I don’t want to know the answer by the way.

Yeah. Sort of. I can't say any more, that would spoil it.

Thank you for the info.

[Maria Caliban]

Curlain wrote...

Poor Jory, he suffers from becoming a plot point to make sure we understand there is no turning back. I'm sure he has a red tunic on underneath that armour :-)

If it wasn't red to begin with...

Edit: Also, there is a cure for the taint.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 13 février 2010 - 01:32 .

[marbatico]

Monica21 wrote...

fchopin wrote...
No answer, so we are playing a game with no answers? 
What is wrong with killing, be it wardens or darkspawn, my rogue likes action.

Your answer would result in the darkspawn overrunning the world, hence it's a terrible one. Making up answers doesn't mean there is one, it just means "hey, I think it would be better if there were a cure." Well, duh, but there isn't. If you've read any of the codex entries (and I strongly suspect at this point that you haven't) then you know this is the fifth blight. There are seven old gods. Two more blights to go and the world is finished with blights but not necessarily finished with the darkspawn.

but there is a cure, remember the kennel master at ostagar? he asks you to find a flower in wilds for a cure for the hound.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

fchopin wrote...




Yes i agree with you and i know that it takes more effort to turn the pc in to a broodmother if you play as a female.
 
But it does not change the fact that Duncan was manipulative and although i like him and he is a great character i don’t like being tricked in to becoming a monster.
 
I don’t see any difference from being bitten by a vampire, you turn in a few days from a vampire but it takes a few years from the ritual. In the end you still become a monster, this is not anything new it has been done before many times.
 
I  would never accept this no matter the reason, this being a game it makes it acceptable as it is not real life so we enjoy the game but i expect better answers from the expansion.
 
For Loghain i always kill him the first chance i get not because he wants to kill the wardens but because he promised to help the king and then left everyone to die.

Manipulative? Yes, I agree, especially in the Human noble origin. And not telling anyone about the Joining and what happens? Throws acid on the wound.

But while you may not like it, it is necessary, because making more Grey Wardens is necessary. The alternative is leaving the world to a fate akin to full scale nuclear warfare. Dead, barren, toxic wastelands, animals and people who grow sick, mutate, and die horribly. Extinction of all life.

For that, poisoning a few people with a slow working poison is a small price to pay, whethere they want to or not.