164 réponses à ce sujet

[ritchie89]

for the next poll i think a good question would be if zaeeds lack of interactive conversations affected peoples scores

[XX55XX]

Edit: Post deleted - table wasn't right.

Modifié par XX55XX, 12 février 2010 - 03:00 .

[DigitalMaster37]

XX55XX wrote...

Deltaboys, surveys like these are always going to be subjective. In fact, the original survey was hardly objective at all - we were asking people how they were feeling about certain characters on a 1-10 scale. There is nothing objective about that.

In my analysis, it seems that the act of people taking the survey multiple times is having limited affect on the means. Overall, the means are slightly down from the first survey, but they are all within the ballpark.

IDK, and I peacefully disagree. Yet I agree that "casual" polls should be, but all we need is more "false" fuel to go to people who are "fanboys". This forum needs a little more peace .

I think polls are to be objective and not subjective, because if it is subjective, then it is obsolete at best. If you ask 1000 people their preference and *said LI war* has been going on. The reality is that a ton of Tali fans have boostered their Tali vote (obvious and perfectly fine) but also dug a hole and packed *opposing* LI into the ground in the other vote.

I'm gonna be honest where others arent and tell you the theaters of war here:

Tali vs Liara vs Miranda vs all of the others - whoever denies that this is true happens to be living under a rock or don't frequent these boards too often.

So as a result, any poll, any thread that has anything to do with choosing an LI anything, will soon be filled with word bombs, name calling and LI cheapshots. The poll in particular happens to have the ordinance called 1's being thrown around like a the "shock and awe campaign". So let's face it, if we don't do something, then somebody else (ME1 or ME2 Character) will be a casualty of the war, instead of getting a real idea of objectivity for all of these wonderful characters. Honestly we're really saying BioWare failed in making a wonderful cast of characters. BioWare has yet to make a character that deserves a 1. Even the characters you hate had to have enough character to cause you to hate them. That deserves at least a 3 for the effort they put into making you hate them. geez!

/long rant

Modifié par Deltaboy37-1, 12 février 2010 - 03:04 .

[marshalleck]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

So as a result, any poll, any thread that has anything to do with choosing an LI anything, will soon be filled with word bombs, name calling and LI cheapshots.
 

Ironic then that you're one of the few (only?) people in the thread to start accusations of fanboyism. <_<

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 février 2010 - 03:07 .

[DigitalMaster37]

marshalleck wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

So as a result, any poll, any thread that has anything to do with choosing an LI anything, will soon be filled with word bombs, name calling and LI cheapshots.
 

Ironic then that you're one of the few (only?) people in the thread to start accusations of fanboyism. <_<

I humbly tell you that I am indeed a HUGE!!!! fan of Liara's but I am no fanboy! When it comes time to be rational and give an objective opinion, I am evenmore grounded. Now due to how bad I've been victimized from Tali fans for my love for Liara, not once did I rate her a 1. Why, because I personally like Tali and even though she is low on my voting totem pole, I wouln'd give her a 1, because all in all she is a good character. I also gave Zaeed a 3. I never use him and neither do I care to talk to him, but he is a decently thought out character, but objectively he is not completely crap. He's my least favorite character, but by no means is he a 1.

Again, I'll just say that it might help for us survey creators to specify what the number respresent.

I think people should be more honest with themselves. I'm being totally transparent.

And how do I become a fanboy because I get curious as to why you are so defensive of them??? It's seems you are making an accusation and in the mood of peace, I simply tell you--no, I am not a fanboy. But just like you, I really, really like a specific character. But the question should be, which character am I gonna crush to push my personal agenda??? my answer is no character, what is yours?

Unlike the majority of Tali fans, most other LI fans have multiple favorites. That has to say something. If BioWare really made all the other LIs that bad, then why wouldn't everybody else see the same thing you Tali fans see?

To me its a matter of clear fanboyism and in most cases it's perfectly fine as it is you and your life, but when that begins to interfere with everyone else, it becomes not only sickening, but

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narcissistic.

Modifié par Deltaboy37-1, 12 février 2010 - 03:20 .

[XX55XX]

Hmm, according to the coefficients of variation, the new poll doesn't demonstrate as much skewing as we once thought. The coefficients of variation are only a few percentage points higher overall.

Modifié par XX55XX, 12 février 2010 - 03:28 .

[marshalleck]

It's just an opinion survey. It's not like we're deciding the futures of our respective countries here. Even the most rabid fanboys should have their opinions counted--once. That's really the bigger problem here, but XX55XX seems to think multiple responses are not having as disproportionate effect as they could, so I'm willing to take that at face value.

Delta, I never called you a fanboy. You're the only person to have used that word in this thread, and you started leveling it against others.

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 février 2010 - 03:22 .

[DigitalMaster37]

marshalleck wrote...

It's just an opinion survey. It's not like we're deciding the futures of our respective countries here. Even the most rabid fanboys should have their opinions counted--once. That's really the bigger problem here, but XX55XX seems to think it's not having as disproportionate effect as it could, so I'm willing to take that at face value.

Delta, I never called you a fanboy. You're the only person to have used that word in this thread, and you started leveling it against others.

I never directly accused you, if anything I asked you. I said, and I quote "it seems you are defending fanboys". that is far from a direct accusation. I'll take your word for it. Plus the fact that this dialog hasn't taken a turn for the worse should say a lot about both of us, so I say again, I'll take your word for it. I have seen and been on the recieving end of enough flame wars and fanboy battles to last a lifetime on these boards going back to 2006-07, so I know how to navigate my way out of a few impending battles, but never once have I been a fanboy. Granted I can debate and have been called passionate on multiple occasions, but never have been a fanboy, thank you very much.

I just think, if we're gonna have a poll, why not get a objective view on people's preferences, and if a person can't be objective, then we really don't need their input, but that is just me talking, maybe others feel like you do. I know I at least heard one person see it from my POV in this thread.

Hey at the end of the day, no one has to take my survey, they can just take XX55XX's survey and that solves your problem. But I will still make one and offer it to all who wish to complete it.

[onlyonesock]

I'm more then willing to bet Tali fans voted more then once and probably lowered the ratings of characters that may have been higher because they saw that Tali wasn't #1 on the other poll.

[SurfaceBeneath]

I had no idea that there was fanboy/girl drama on these forums.



Does that happen in those relationship or "X character LOVE" threads that I so meticulously avoid?

[XX55XX]

onlyonesock wrote...

I'm more then willing to bet Tali fans voted more then once and probably lowered the ratings of characters that may have been higher because they saw that Tali wasn't #1 on the other poll.

Tali's median score of 9 is really high for a character with a mean score of 7.90. You may be right. Lots of people gave her 10's.

Anyways, Deltaboy, relax. It's a simple survey. I just did this because I loved doing statistics in high school. I am also doing statistics in college right now, so I thought creating a survey would help me review these concepts (like standard deviation, coefficient of variation, standardization, etc.)

[DigitalMaster37]

onlyonesock wrote...

I'm more then willing to bet Tali fans voted more then once and probably lowered the ratings of characters that may have been higher because they saw that Tali wasn't #1 on the other poll.

being one who looked at the votes face to face, I can tell you that I know for a fact that was the case. looking at every time Tali recieved a 10 vote, there was alwasy another LI (ironically) that got a 1. It was like clockwork. The reason Tali even scored as high as she did, was because other LI fans (ironically) voted high as well for Tali. Goes to show who is the more objective voter. Thats why I was making such a fuss about it. Tali fans are funny, they are soooo scared she won't return they are trying to sell to BioWare that no other LI matter except their beloved Tali. It's getting rather rediculous and truthfully their futile attempts is only going to backfire on them, BioWare reads the boards just as we do. I promist BioWare looks at certain factors that some may not think they do.

[Eclesis]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

I humbly tell you that I am indeed a HUGE!!!! fan of Liara's but I am no fanboy! When it comes time to be rational and give an objective opinion, I am evenmore grounded. Now due to how bad I've been victimized from Tali fans for my love for Liara, not once did I rate her a 1. Why, because I personally like Tali and even though she is low on my voting totem pole, I wouln'd give her a 1, because all in all she is a good character. I also gave Zaeed a 3. I never use him and neither do I care to talk to him, but he is a decently thought out character, but objectively he is not completely crap. He's my least favorite character, but by no means is he a 1.

Again, I'll just say that it might help for us survey creators to specify what the number respresent.

If that's your objective you should probably go into a little more detail; as it currently stands, the survey seems to be "how much do you like the characters", not "how well-written you thought they were", even if the two are related. For example, I gave Morinth a 1, because she's a crazy sociopath and I didn't want anything to do with her. Was she well-written? Probably, but that wasn't the question of the poll. You need to make it absolutely clear that you want a slightly different opinion than just "do you like this character", if you are going to be shifting results like that. If you really want to prevent bias, the only way to do it is figure out something to prevent people from voting twice. No matter what the agenda of, say, the Tali fanboys are, their opinion is still their valid opinion, as long as they're not stuffing the polls by voting multiple times.

[DigitalMaster37]

XX55XX wrote...

onlyonesock wrote...

I'm more then willing to bet Tali fans voted more then once and probably lowered the ratings of characters that may have been higher because they saw that Tali wasn't #1 on the other poll.

Tali's median score of 9 is really high for a character with a mean score of 7.90. You may be right. Lots of people gave her 10's.

Anyways, Deltaboy, relax. It's a simple survey. I just did this because I loved doing statistics in high school. I am also doing statistics in college right now, so I thought creating a survey would help me review these concepts (like standard deviation, coefficient of variation, standardization, etc.)

I don't mean to be so vocal, but it just gets a little funny and childish when you can;t even do a survey without fanboys ruining it. That's my idea of fun, actually putting something together everyone can get some actual accurate info from. That's what "was" making it fun for me.


BTW, good luck in college, I am in college too, so this is sorta like practice for me too. I like numbers and being an accounting/finance major, it can only help.

Modifié par Deltaboy37-1, 12 février 2010 - 03:35 .

[XX55XX]

Eclesis wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

I humbly tell you that I am indeed a HUGE!!!! fan of Liara's but I am no fanboy! When it comes time to be rational and give an objective opinion, I am evenmore grounded. Now due to how bad I've been victimized from Tali fans for my love for Liara, not once did I rate her a 1. Why, because I personally like Tali and even though she is low on my voting totem pole, I wouln'd give her a 1, because all in all she is a good character. I also gave Zaeed a 3. I never use him and neither do I care to talk to him, but he is a decently thought out character, but objectively he is not completely crap. He's my least favorite character, but by no means is he a 1.

Again, I'll just say that it might help for us survey creators to specify what the number respresent.

If that's your objective you should probably go into a little more detail; as it currently stands, the survey seems to be "how much do you like the characters", not "how well-written you thought they were", even if the two are related. For example, I gave Morinth a 1, because she's a crazy sociopath and I didn't want anything to do with her. Was she well-written? Probably, but that wasn't the question of the poll. You need to make it absolutely clear that you want a slightly different opinion than just "do you like this character", if you are going to be shifting results like that. If you really want to prevent bias, the only way to do it is figure out something to prevent people from voting twice. No matter what the agenda of, say, the Tali fanboys are, their opinion is still their valid opinion, as long as they're not stuffing the polls by voting multiple times.

Well said. I could not have said it any better. When I set off on doing this survey, I actually wanted people to rate the characters based on how much they liked them - and the results weren't too far off the mark, in my opinion. Zaeed and Morinth were at the bottom of the barrel, as expected, and Mordin and Garrus were on top. Completely expected, but I just wanted to put these opinions into numbers.

[DigitalMaster37]

Eclesis wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

I humbly tell you that I am indeed a HUGE!!!! fan of Liara's but I am no fanboy! When it comes time to be rational and give an objective opinion, I am evenmore grounded. Now due to how bad I've been victimized from Tali fans for my love for Liara, not once did I rate her a 1. Why, because I personally like Tali and even though she is low on my voting totem pole, I wouln'd give her a 1, because all in all she is a good character. I also gave Zaeed a 3. I never use him and neither do I care to talk to him, but he is a decently thought out character, but objectively he is not completely crap. He's my least favorite character, but by no means is he a 1.

Again, I'll just say that it might help for us survey creators to specify what the number respresent.

If that's your objective you should probably go into a little more detail; as it currently stands, the survey seems to be "how much do you like the characters", not "how well-written you thought they were", even if the two are related. For example, I gave Morinth a 1, because she's a crazy sociopath and I didn't want anything to do with her. Was she well-written? Probably, but that wasn't the question of the poll. You need to make it absolutely clear that you want a slightly different opinion than just "do you like this character", if you are going to be shifting results like that. If you really want to prevent bias, the only way to do it is figure out something to prevent people from voting twice. No matter what the agenda of, say, the Tali fanboys are, their opinion is still their valid opinion, as long as they're not stuffing the polls by voting multiple times.

I like this argument and I do agree. I agree that finding a way to limit the votes is priority one. That was actually my initial thought and request following the latest results. So I totally agree with you. Also you are right, even as I have said, the survey creators (XX55XX, me and whoever else) need to specify what the survey is really for and what the numbers actually mean.

[XX55XX]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

onlyonesock wrote...

I'm more then willing to bet Tali fans voted more then once and probably lowered the ratings of characters that may have been higher because they saw that Tali wasn't #1 on the other poll.

Tali's median score of 9 is really high for a character with a mean score of 7.90. You may be right. Lots of people gave her 10's.

Anyways, Deltaboy, relax. It's a simple survey. I just did this because I loved doing statistics in high school. I am also doing statistics in college right now, so I thought creating a survey would help me review these concepts (like standard deviation, coefficient of variation, standardization, etc.)

I don't mean to be so vocal, but it just gets a little funny and childish when you can;t even do a survey without fanboys ruining it. That's my idea of fun, actually putting something together everyone can get some actual accurate info from. That's what "was" making it fun for me.

BTW, good luck in college, I am in college too, so this is sorta like practice for me too. I like numbers and being an accounting/finance major, it can only help.

Fanboys aren't ruining the survey too much. Again, going on the coefficients of variation for each character, it seems that they only had a mild affect on the numbers.

[onlyonesock]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

onlyonesock wrote...

I'm more then willing to bet Tali fans voted more then once and probably lowered the ratings of characters that may have been higher because they saw that Tali wasn't #1 on the other poll.

being one who looked at the votes face to face, I can tell you that I know for a fact that was the case. looking at every time Tali recieved a 10 vote, there was alwasy another LI (ironically) that got a 1. It was like clockwork. The reason Tali even scored as high as she did, was because other LI fans (ironically) voted high as well for Tali. Goes to show who is the more objective voter. Thats why I was making such a fuss about it. Tali fans are funny, they are soooo scared she won't return they are trying to sell to BioWare that no other LI matter except their beloved Tali. It's getting rather rediculous and truthfully their futile attempts is only going to backfire on them, BioWare reads the boards just as we do. I promist BioWare looks at certain factors that some may not think they do.

Are you guys already done with it? Or are you doing a report on it like the last one?

[marshalleck]

Eclesis wrote...

No matter what the agenda of, say, the Tali fanboys are, their opinion is still their valid opinion, as long as they're not stuffing the polls by voting multiple times.

Precisely. There's a huge difference between saying multiple responses from individuals need to be purged, and the opinions of people whom we disagree with need to be purged.

[XX55XX]

onlyonesock wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

onlyonesock wrote...

I'm more then willing to bet Tali fans voted more then once and probably lowered the ratings of characters that may have been higher because they saw that Tali wasn't #1 on the other poll.

being one who looked at the votes face to face, I can tell you that I know for a fact that was the case. looking at every time Tali recieved a 10 vote, there was alwasy another LI (ironically) that got a 1. It was like clockwork. The reason Tali even scored as high as she did, was because other LI fans (ironically) voted high as well for Tali. Goes to show who is the more objective voter. Thats why I was making such a fuss about it. Tali fans are funny, they are soooo scared she won't return they are trying to sell to BioWare that no other LI matter except their beloved Tali. It's getting rather rediculous and truthfully their futile attempts is only going to backfire on them, BioWare reads the boards just as we do. I promist BioWare looks at certain factors that some may not think they do.

Are you guys already done with it? Or are you doing a report on it like the last one?

It's quite late, but I do already have the numbers on hand. I just need to write a report over the weekend (on top of that history paper I have!)

Personally, I like to see version 2.0 of this survey as a mere pilot. Version 3.0 is in the works and will be out in a day or two.

[DigitalMaster37]

XX55XX wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

onlyonesock wrote...

I'm more then willing to bet Tali fans voted more then once and probably lowered the ratings of characters that may have been higher because they saw that Tali wasn't #1 on the other poll.

Tali's median score of 9 is really high for a character with a mean score of 7.90. You may be right. Lots of people gave her 10's.

Anyways, Deltaboy, relax. It's a simple survey. I just did this because I loved doing statistics in high school. I am also doing statistics in college right now, so I thought creating a survey would help me review these concepts (like standard deviation, coefficient of variation, standardization, etc.)

I don't mean to be so vocal, but it just gets a little funny and childish when you can;t even do a survey without fanboys ruining it. That's my idea of fun, actually putting something together everyone can get some actual accurate info from. That's what "was" making it fun for me.

BTW, good luck in college, I am in college too, so this is sorta like practice for me too. I like numbers and being an accounting/finance major, it can only help.

Fanboys aren't ruining the survey too much. Again, going on the coefficients of variation for each character, it seems that they only had a mild affect on the numbers.

well that refreshing. I take it that is due to the high number of votes, but in my calculations of the 514 , it did have a significant effect. Yet Tali ended up being in 3-4th place showing that it didn't have as such a neative affect as initially thought.

I really think once we get the double entry situation fixed, it will make the results a tad more accurate.

[onlyonesock]

How do you fix that double entry thing?

[XX55XX]

well that refreshing. I take it that is due to the high number of votes,
but in my calculations of the 514 , it did have a significant effect.
Yet Tali ended up being in 3-4th place showing that it didn't have as
such a neative affect as initially thought.

I really think once
we get the double entry situation fixed, it will make the results a tad
more accurate.

Have you checked the coeffcients of variation in comparison with the last survey? It seems that the variability of the results has only been mildly affected by people taking the survey multiple times.

[XX55XX]

onlyonesock wrote...

How do you fix that double entry thing?

Can't be fixed, unfortunately. We must rely on the good faith of others.

[DigitalMaster37]

XX55XX wrote...

well that refreshing. I take it that is due to the high number of votes,
but in my calculations of the 514 , it did have a significant effect.
Yet Tali ended up being in 3-4th place showing that it didn't have as
such a neative affect as initially thought.

I really think once
we get the double entry situation fixed, it will make the results a tad
more accurate.

Have you checked the coeffcients of variation in comparison with the last survey? It seems that the variability of the results has only been mildly affected by people taking the survey multiple times.

I haven't, that is one calculation I didn't make, I took the more difficult route and skimmed through all of them. At that time it was only 514. I singled out the "funny" votes and still used them, but did a count and it was high.