222 réponses à ce sujet

[Destrier77]

I missed the duck, i summoned a pig and there were lots of invisible dogs in teh cities but never one duck I feel let down.

[_Aine_]

I have no strong feelings for or against DLC other than what positive feeling I have for it stems from the fact that I want to use it to extend my game experience. That of course is also where my concerns would lay: does the DLC actually offer an extension of the experience and not just the location/characters in name.

I own all the DLC for DA:O and for the most part was happy with it. I cannot say that I felt RTO *fit* the voice of the main game. Yes, it provided the locale, the story, the characters, but the voice to me felt off. Did this mean the $5 was not worth it? No. Does it mean I am now anti-DLC? Not at all. I would still love it if it could, and would be willing to pay good $ for it to, extend the story i came to enjoy spending my time with. I *will* be more careful about which DLC i get in the future, not for length or transferability, but solely for what I feel is an authentic representation of the game world I came to enjoy. That does not mean a REPRODUCTION of the same old situations or anything of the sort, but I would like the characters to remain authentically in the voice I have come to know them.  ( I would, frankly, rather new characters I have to get to know, than hollow versions of ones who were brilliant in the first place.) 

I think the long term viability of the DLC market within an RPG setting such as this has less to do with frequency or cost, or even *gasps* value but rather in giving people authentic extensions of the main. Sometimes authentic is defined by:  what people want along the vein of the old, and sometimes its a new direction altogether, but they should fit seamlessly in terms of mood, voice and general approach. Come off as a child-unit of the parent. RTO was very close, but it didn't hit that *for me* and I star that, because I am aware I am speaking only for myself there.

Hope that makes sense.

Modifié par shantisands, 17 février 2010 - 01:29 .

[purplesunset]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I definitely appreciate Mr.Gaider's blunt honesty.

It's just that I saw much of my former self in that post  which I quoted and I wanted "Sabriana" to learn from it.

[DragonDefender]

David Gaider wrote...

kyles3 wrote...
it was probably addressed to you because (whether or not you have the answers people are looking for) nobody else at bioware seems to be listening.

If by "listening" you mean "doing what I personally want", then I suppose you're correct. If by "listening" you mean "willing to come here and engage in a debate about it", then you're also correct -- the matter isn't up for debate. If, however, by "listening" you mean "aware of how some community members feel", then you're wrong. That's the point of the forums, to allow people to express their opinions, and we'll always take them into consideration when we can.

 No mister Gaider when the poster said listening he did not just mean himself personaly, but to the masses of people who are telling you what the would like to see. Not just DLC but over direction of the game, remember yes you have creative control but if you go from a place where your customers are happy to completely pissing them off in a matter of months then unfortunately you will lose money. Am I just saying this no Sir I completely took your advice and had a refund issued for a paid in full pre-order.

[David Gaider]

DragonDefender wrote...
No mister Gaider when the poster said listening he did not just mean himself personaly, but to the masses of people who are telling you what the would like to see. Not just DLC but over direction of the game, remember yes you have creative control but if you go from a place where your customers are happy to completely pissing them off in a matter of months then unfortunately you will lose money. Am I just saying this no Sir I completely took your advice and had a refund issued for a paid in full pre-order.

As you wish. That is your right -- and you are absolutely correct: if we put out something that nobody enjoys, we will lose money. Happily, we do put out stuff that people enjoy -- or you wouldn't be here. And we love making it. Hopefully you end up playing Awakening and enjoy it (I'm assuming that's what you're referring to) but you are indeed free to spend your money however you like.

[DragonDefender]

Agreed Mr. Gaider I think my panties are just in a bunch over the DLC content I am sure a week after DA:A releases that I will be kicking myself in the arse for getting my refund.

 And no matter how hard this community critisizes Bioware you or any other dev, we do respect the work that goes into these game. I believe alot of us old school gamers are afraid we are seeing Bioware going the way of some other software giants. To alot of us who saw these companies grow it is always rending when you see it go under because of any kind of disconnect from the developer and their fans.

 

[Bibdy]

Its ironic. Just like the World of Warcraft forums, the more developers talk on the forums, the more the so-called community (i.e. a few loud-mouthed idiots dispersed amongst the rest of us) complain that the devs aren't listening to their feedback.

Its always better to just read the forums, get feedback, develop from those ideas and implement it, rather than do a personal exchange between forum-goers. If you talk about subject A, they're not likely to give a damn about subject A, they're just going to complain about the fact that during your spiel about subject A, you didn't mention subjects B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z.

[darkmax1974]

art is always a double-edge sword.

[DragonDefender]

Nah I was just trying to vent my frustration was all, and calling people idiots is pretty much showing yourself as one no matter how loud mouthed they are.

[grieferbastard]

So, given that Dragon Age has been pushed as a 'full spectrum franchise', is there anything else in the wish list for DA than just DA2 and maybe DA3? A non-Grey Warden series? Some Tevinter vs Qunari vs Everyone Else sort of story would be epic. I'd love to get out of Ferelden some day. A search for the original home of the Elves.

I'm a big fan of the DLC. If I didn't trust BioWare to make quality story for me to play in on principle I wouldn't have picked up DA to begin with. The only reason I'm playing less now than before is the release of the Dragon Age RPG from Green Ronin - which, while not quite the format I'd pick for myself seems pointed at people who didn't pick up the CRPG. Rather cunning, that. If it was intentional anyway. They've made a new system for it too that seems rock solid. Their forums are a little ironic, all the DA:O fans are complaining that it's too sparse and all the people who've never played the CRPG say it's perfect and everyone else should just relax.

Obviously a movie would be awesome but that's a dream all its own. Other game concepts? With Tiger Woods in trouble maybe EA would be willing to pick up Alistair as their new face-man for the golf franchise. You could do a little DLC about him ambling around the links after the main story line is all over, complaining about his women troubles and blaming missed putts on the Darkspawn. 'If I make par we go to war with Orlais, if I miss par we go to war with the Imperium. Fair?' Make it canon and *boom*! Segue into a golf franchise!

Joking aside is there even speculation about continuing the franchise beyond this initial storyline?

[0LunarEclipse0]

David Gaider wrote...

DragonDefender wrote...
No mister Gaider when the poster said listening he did not just mean himself personaly, but to the masses of people who are telling you what the would like to see. Not just DLC but over direction of the game, remember yes you have creative control but if you go from a place where your customers are happy to completely pissing them off in a matter of months then unfortunately you will lose money. Am I just saying this no Sir I completely took your advice and had a refund issued for a paid in full pre-order.

As you wish. That is your right -- and you are absolutely correct: if we put out something that nobody enjoys, we will lose money. Happily, we do put out stuff that people enjoy -- or you wouldn't be here. And we love making it. Hopefully you end up playing Awakening and enjoy it (I'm assuming that's what you're referring to) but you are indeed free to spend your money however you like.

I hope that you David and the rest of the team never get discouraged by the negativity here. Though I angrily and impaitiently wait for RtO, I appreciate the art form that you at Bioware create. I appreciate that you for the most part put our minds at ease when we have question. All and all Bioware is the best company I have ever "done buisness" with. So know that my walet waits for more product. My heart waits for more story and my PS3 still waits for RtO.

Thank you for being a part of this community.

*salutes*

Lunar

[David Gaider]

DragonDefender wrote...
Agreed Mr. Gaider I think my panties are just in a bunch over the DLC content I am sure a week after DA:A releases that I will be kicking myself in the arse for getting my refund.

Maybe so.

Some people have their hearts on getting very particular things from the expansion. I get that, and in a way it's a compliment because of how very invested they are in what's gone before. It's very difficult to imagine liking new characters or new stories until they're right there in front of you -- why, hello there! They and you will have to decide whether they want to jump in, though.

And no matter how hard this community critisizes Bioware you or any other dev, we do respect the work that goes into these game. I believe alot of us old school gamers are afraid we are seeing Bioware going the way of some other software giants. To alot of us who saw these companies grow it is always rending when you see it go under because of any kind of disconnect from the developer and their fans.

While I don't doubt that's possible, I have to say I don't really see a lot of developers going under because of a disconnect with their fans. Mostly you see developers going under because they don't take care of the business end of things -- sometimes despite how much their games are enjoyed. I don`t want to think of making games as ``just business`` any more than you all do... this is something I love to do, and it will never be ``just business`` to me... but treating it as if it isn`t a business at all would be foolish. That business side is what keeps us creating. With any luck we can find that happy medium.

[FieryDove]

David Gaider wrote...

 With any luck we can find that happy medium.

A happy medium is great, but they tend to be rare in most companies "to do lists". Then again you folk are not most companies...or were. (Yes having EA overlords still worry me).

[Realmzmaster]

The bottomline is that EA/BioWare is a business. A business that makes no money is out of business. That is the harsh reality. Anyone remember Iron Lore Entertainment (Titan Quest) who could not obtain funding for its next project and disappeared. LIke it or not EA provides the funding for BioWare which can be liberating and confining all at the same time. Liberating because BioWare does not have to look for funding itself. Confining because BioWare now answers to another entity.

Games are now bigtime entertainment costing millions to make. CRPGs are a niche market, which BioWare is trying to grow. Companies expect to hopefully breakeven and make a profit. Many games and ideas never see the light of day they die in development. So that R & D must be covered somehow.

BioWare developers are listening to the forums, but in the end the developers must balance the game between established base and increasing the base which can only come by attracting newcomers to the niche.

Mr. Gaider is telling us how things are, not how we want them to be.

No one forces anyone to buy anything. The gamers choose to buy and have the right to voice their opinion, but in the end it all comes down to a business decision.

Just like the gamer who chooses to buy DA:O, the DLC or not. It is a decision.

[MOTpoetryION]

The proof may not be in the pudding , but Liliana sure was/is. She might be hiding the formula can anyone say , "strip search" ... doh : )

[Kalfear]

DragonDefender wrote...

Agreed Mr. Gaider I think my panties are just in a bunch over the DLC content I am sure a week after DA:A releases that I will be kicking myself in the arse for getting my refund.

 And no matter how hard this community critisizes Bioware you or any other dev, we do respect the work that goes into these game. I believe alot of us old school gamers are afraid we are seeing Bioware going the way of some other software giants. To alot of us who saw these companies grow it is always rending when you see it go under because of any kind of disconnect from the developer and their fans.

 

I agree with that to some degree.
I been a Bioware fan since their very first days as a company and always respected their honesty and connection with their fan base.
I will admit, David Gaider interaction aside, Bioware has changed their tune somewhat since the EA take over and that worries me (and no im not a "EA is the devil" type person).
I noticed it first with how Bioware Austin presents themselves but hoped that was just a regional/nationalitty thing. Then the press releases for DA:O came out and while a awsome and great game (seriously, I love the game and books), they were in many cases misleading or outright false. ME2 continued this trend sadly.
I also look around the forums and see the type of fan they attracting in many cases and that also worries me (and those fans being rewarded for blind devotion, which I wont go into to).
There was a great many fans trying to give feedback for ME2 after ME1 but now it seems only a certain portion were listened to (and the game suffered because of it).

So yup, as a old school gamer Im definately seeing a disconnent from the developer to their long term fans. and that saddens me.

As for the DLC nonsence. DLC is a new concept that could be great for the gaming industry or terrible depending on how it goes and is handled. Sadly I personally will not be buying any more DLC as it was made crystal clear that Bioware and EA veiw this as a revenue source only and (and I quote) "as long as people willing to pay $5.00 for 40 minutes to a hour of content. We will continue to deliver on those terms".

As a customer I have exactly 2 voices to be heard, my forum voice and my purchase voice. I stated my dislike, I got a answer from Bioware. There in no sence in whining about it now, unlike others doing still. I will not be buying anymore DLC until a time were Bioware feels they should deliver more content for the consumers dollar value. 
But AGAIN, Bioware answered this question loud and clear. Thats all I (or anyone) could (or should) ask for and am not going to fill up forums complaining because I didnt like the answer.

ME2 on the other hand, the mass majority has spoken and Bioware hasnt answered as of yet so I will continue to push my agenda there until I receive a official answer on my concerns. 
Oh sure a vocal minority of Bioware yes fans have stated THEIR opinions, but those worth even less then mine cause at least I have a majority of posters on my side for that topic.
All you can do is ask for a answer and HOPE AND PRAY some dev takes your opinion into account the next time he/she looks at the topic. No dev (Bioware or anyone) owes anyone anything though.
To many "kids" use words like boycott and petition to much like its their god given right to influence a games developement. The only real right you have is to state your case and be heard, thats all, end of line. No promises made.

Please note: When I say kid(s) in my posts im not actually talking age (although its obvious this forum filled with 12-17 years olds anyways), im talking maturity. Which isnt gauged by your spelling ability and how loyal you are to a company that doesnt pay you, contrary to some posters opinions. Its direct reference to your problem solving abilities and common sence levels. Just so thats clear.

[DragonDefender]

Yeah I had got my panties in a bunch over what some DLC content, oh well time to move on. * Rolls the dead horse out of the forums. Takes the stick and puts it in the corner*. I know a week after DA:A release I will be picking it up.



I just have to trust Mr. Gaider and his Devs vision of things in this series to give me a great expansion. Well enough from the complaining side of me I will just keep an open mind till after I play DA:A.

[TheMadCat]

I just have to trust Mr. Gaider and his Devs vision of things in this series to give me a great expansion. Well enough from the complaining side of me I will just keep an open mind till after I play DA:A.

A sensible attitude. Bioware has pumped out high quality AAA products for over 10 years, they've got some of the best storytellers in the business and one of the better development attitudes. I think it's fair to give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to design choices and story/game direction until we can sit back and judge it for ourselves.

[Feraele]

exorzist wrote...

Is David Gaider BioWare's unofficial figurehead, or is he just a sharp-tongued nuisance?

Anybody who has spent a significant amount of time on BioWare’s Social Network, will have witnessed at leastone of the regular exchanges between Community members and BioWare employees. Whether it is a complaint about the price of DLC, the near-vapour-ware status of PS3-RtO, or how Dragon Age is inferior to Baldur’s Gate 2, the Community is there to post–and so are BioWare.

In the experience of this Warden, having a forum where you can regularly converse with the game’s creators is a significant point to note. Not only does this activity make the Community feel more involved in the object of their interest, but it also allows the creators to see first-hand reactions to their creation. In an ideal world, Community and Creator would live alongside each other, exchanging well thought out remarks and feedback. Striving, in a land of butterflies, exploding toffees and popcorn, to produce–in union–examples of gaming zenith.
Of course in the real world such does not occur (excluding, of course, my self-detonating home-made toffees).
More often than not certain vocal members of the Community are found at loggerheads with BioWare’s representatives. The Social Network becomes a proverbial boxing ring of complaints and counter-arguments; of
bad-spelling and an ill-used caps lock.

With Victor Wachter employed as BioWare’s Community Facilitator it may come as a surprise to find that, more often than not, it is David Gaider who hoists BioWare’s banner. Just a glance at their profiles tells a tale: Wachter has his ten visible posts spread out across 12 days, while all ten of Gaider’s have been made within the past 20-hours.

Read the rest of the article here and debate.

Why??  are we picking on Mr Gaider?  hehe

I guess I am one of those few people who appreciates ..HONESTY.    Sometimes it could possibly tempered with a little more tact...maybe, but sometimes I think its warranted, given what goes on in these forums.

Give the guy some credit, he cares...if he didn't ..he wouldn't be here posting.    If you didn't care..you wouldn't be here posting either.

If nobody cared..they wouldn't be playing the game.

Its bound to happen that people will disagree, not every opinion jives with every other opinion.   Differences occur.

Variety is the spice of life.

Wouldn't that be lame if we all thought exactly alike...did exactly the same thing at the same time all the time?

Viva la difference!

[Feraele]

If you criticize someone's work, they have the right to respond to your criticism. An honest person will say that sometimes the criticism is spot on, and sometimes, its way off base. That's all I've seen here. If sometimes the post comes off as sarcastic or snarky...well....look at DA:O. There's plenty of that in the writing, so we should be surprised if occasionally the authors bring it here too? I'd say its only to be expected, and makes the argument that much more fun, if you can respond in kind.



----------------END QUOTE



AND...quoted for emphasis........I dare anyone here to create ANY kind of work of art, from their heart and soul...and then allow thousands of people to rip it apart ..stomp all over ...but



Sit there and take it without a word?



I don't think so.......

[Feraele]

soteria wrote...

When I was playing WoW, one of the developers spoke on their forums. And everytime he did, usually to post some harmless change or suggestion, people went crazy at him. He generated a lot of emotions just for posting in his own time and trying to add a depth to the forum and community.



Eventually he made a post to say it seemed he was doing more harm than good. And everyone who was complaining about him just 5 minutes before were "omg, like who's going to do your job now? noone? but wait... don't go..."



Was just funny. These guys are game developers, they are real people and they post here to benefit us. As long as they don't say anything that can get them fired, its surely better to have them than not, even if you don't always like/agree with what they have to say?

I think the funniest post I've seen by David was his smacking down someone who said something like, "You can't disagree with me! Didn't they teach you in marketing school, the customer is always right?!" David: (paraphrase) "No, actually, the customer can definitely be wrong. Besides, didn't you already say you aren't buying Awakening? So you aren't a customer." Pwnt.

Oh, and I didn't visit your stupid website, so there.

Neither did I ...wasn't that interested in promoting ..his/her agenda.

[Feraele]

David Gaider wrote...

Hmm.

I don't know how to feel about the implication that I am either a figurehead or a "sharp-tongued nuisance", but GreyWardens.com is usually a pretty decent site. Despite how some of you might feel about this article, I wouldn't judge the site by it alone.

It seems as if I should post less than I do. I knew that some people took me as Bioware Man, as if I represented and was responsible for everything Bioware simply by way of my visibility, but sharp-tongued figurehead wasn't exactly what I was going for.

Peace.

Neither...just like I told Wynne...you are a person.

Post whereever and whenever ...thats your right.  Isn't it?  

Just because someone disagrees with you..doesn't mean the rest of us..should have to go without the information you provide.   And the sometimes funny responses.

And to those who respond to me.."oh fangurl"....etc

Darn tootin' I am ...so put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[Hulk Hsieh]

Kalfear wrote...
[/i]As a customer I have exactly 2 voices to be heard, my forum voice and my purchase voice. I stated my dislike, I got a answer from Bioware. There in no sence in whining about it now, unlike others doing still. I will not be buying anymore DLC until a time were Bioware feels they should deliver more content for the consumers dollar value. 
But AGAIN, Bioware answered this question loud and clear. Thats all I (or anyone) could (or should) ask for and am not going to fill up forums complaining because I didnt like the answer.

Don't forget that people also have Facebook voice, Twitter voice, and calling-your-friends voices.

By that you may make more impact on both opinion and money side.