14 réponses à ce sujet

[E.C.Patterson]

Is there any news on the centralized and user-friendly hosting of community-made mods, prefabs etc.?

At first glance, it does not seem to me that the Projects section is sufficiently user-friendly at this time for the purpose of file distribution : I do not see how players will easily find completed mods, there is no robust ranking system (though the absence of this could be desirable in some ways, ultimately it might  turn off would-be players by making it hard to find the "good" mods), the file size limit per project appears to be capped at 120 mb, which I would think risks being insufficient for some mods etc.

What are people's thoughts on this? And what are the plans for DA community-made content distribution, including beefing up the Projects section, if any?

A robust, user-friendly, centralized file distribution service, in my view, is essential from near-Day 1, to allow the building community to take its place and thrive.

Deep down, I just want to be reassured things are on the right track.

Thanks.

P.S.: This topic was touched upon in this thread, but there has been no resolution to the question, AFAIK.

[Proleric]

Good point.

At minimum, it would would be good to separate builder projects from playable modules, and have some sort of module classification.

The 5-star rating system may have limited value here in the forum, but it would be perfect for module rating IMO.

Some people might like a more granular rating system, but statistically I doubt whether anything more refined is meaningful.

Modifié par Proleric1, 17 octobre 2009 - 06:23 .

[Snoteye]

I don't rate on the Vault because I can never be arsed to think of something to write, but I do believe rating shouldn't be possible without also commenting. I also happen to think 10 (or even better, multiple categories, like technical quality and main storyline) is better than five.

[Capitaine NicOol]

I'm very concerned by this as well.

[E.C.Patterson]

Glad to see I`m not the only one concerned by this. Hope we get some official hints soon about what's in store for file distribution.

Transfering the star system over to the file distribution area is not a bad idea. I wonder if it can represent averages with decimals (e.g. 4 1/2 stars).

I`m fairly convince the "Popularity" ranking on projects is not a suitable content ranking system.

Modifié par E.C.Patterson, 27 octobre 2009 - 02:00 .

[Adinos]

I share your concerns.

The problem is that the site currently feels a bit disorganized - it is too hard to find what you are looking for, and I fear that will only get worse when the game is released.

With respect to custom content, my main problem is that there is no clear division between the three main categories, and the project classification system is currently not usable.

By three main categories of custom content, I mean the following:

• Playable modules or addons (Builder-to player) ready for download.
• Builder-to-Builder content.
• Projects under development.

If I am looking for modules to play, or interesting addons to the game, I have no interest in projects that are still being developed or builder-to-builder components. I want to know what is available "now", and preferably I want to see a rating system, where I can see what others think of the module.

If I am a builder, looking for something to incorporate into my own work, I may be looking for specific categories, like models, textures, music, scripts, VO samples, sound effects, Vfx, or even ready-made area layout files, like a ready-made village that I could populate and so on. The current project classification system is rather unsatisfactory in classifying the Builder-to-builder material.

Finally, if I am a builder with some spare time, and a willingness to assist others, I want to be able to look for projects that need people with specific skills - but I have no interest in projects that are already completed.

The bottom line is that currently the site is not really usable for sharing custom content, due to problems with classification and difficulty in searching for the right type of material.

I have posted my suggestions for how to fix this before, so I will not repeat those here.

Modifié par Adinos, 27 octobre 2009 - 04:01 .

[WyrinDnjargo]

I think you've all mirrored my own thoughts when I started trying to browse through the projects and groups. more categories and better organisation (and maybe archiving of ones that aren't updated) would be nice

[FalloutBoy]

Snoteye wrote...

I don't rate on the Vault because I can never be arsed to think of something to write, but I do believe rating shouldn't be possible without also commenting. I also happen to think 10 (or even better, multiple categories, like technical quality and main storyline) is better than five.

There's nothing wrong with just saying in your comment "This was good I give it a 7."

Modifié par FalloutBoy, 27 octobre 2009 - 05:03 .

[Sunjammer]

The problem with with almost any rating system is that you end with a race condition that ensures that after a short period of time the maximum is the only "acceptable" value to give or receive.

After a while on the Vault people giving carefully considered 7s for something they felt was "good" were flamed by the author for hurting their average. Similarly people would complain that system X was completely bugged and still award 10. The system was so broken that even a protest or troll vote (i.e. 1-5) represented 4% of the votes needed for the HoF and there was guaranteed to be enough people voting 10 to mask it.

The goal with any voting system is to encourage feedback and recognition. A simple thumbs up/thumbs down and optional comment would suffice and these seem to work for all these ebay/amazon/play-style marketplaces.

[fluffyamoeba]

Yup, the vault voting system was totally meaningless because essentially it was 10 if it was ok to awesome, 9 if it was ok but broken to the point of unplayable, if it sucked don't vote. So while in theory it was a 40 point scale (you could vote to the nearest 0.25), it actually ended up like those gaming magazines that score every game review in a range of 85-95%. A score out of 5 is the most detail it should go to. As sunjammer mentioned, most places that use feedback systems where money is involved go for thumbs up/down or a 5 star system (amazon uses a 5 star system ).

[Beerfish]

I don't care all that much about voting systems all that much but I do care about the ability to host modules in an easy to use, easy to get at way along with all the associated files needed for module making co-ops. Having to go off site to store modules or host files for group projects defeats the purpose of a site like this if BioWares goal is to provide an all in one site. People and groups will definitely bleed off elsewhere if their needs are not being met.

[E.C.Patterson]

Re voting system: all types have shortcomings. Even in a binary thumps up/down system, you'll have some that vote down only because they could not romance the cute elven barmaid and others who will refuse to vote thumb down at all, because they don't want to hurt the builder's feelings or average/ratio. Of course, allowing for anonymous voting would bring down many people's inhibitions

In spite of its own shortcomings and the possible lack of value of the actual score, the Vault system still produced, in my view, what was most useful: a fairly accurate ranking of mods from the best to the worst. Of course, people could argue for eternity if mod x was actually better than mod y, but overall it worked. A system based on 2, 5, 10 or 40 different possible ratings wouldn't change the end result much, IMO.

All  in all, I think I'd be happy with any voting system that can be called such. Not so sure I`d be happy with anonymous votes, but I could learn to live with that I suppose.

I will argue that an equally important role of a ranking system, if not the most important, is to make it easy for players to jump into a good game. Players will become quickly frustrated I think if they don't have a means to quickly assess what the good mods are. Asking the forums for recommendations is something only one in a couple thousand players will do.

Re user-friendly centralized file distribution: This is key!! Fragmented distribution would be terrible for the community (again, player frustration!). If perchance this site does not rise to the challenge, then we can only hope a kind soul will create a DA Vault, Cave, Chest, Hoard or whatever. Then again, the hosting requirements are huge and beyond the reach of the hobbyists themselves I'm sure.

Modifié par E.C.Patterson, 27 octobre 2009 - 08:53 .

[Challseus]

With regards to using a thumbs up/thumbs down, I just don't think it tells a potential downloader (i.e. me) that much. Sure, I can read tons and tons of user comments, but when I just want to find something to play, I want a more granuler (sp?) way of determining what is/is not good. Maybe it's just me, but if I saw something had say, 100 thumbs up, I would take it as if the module had 100 people who found it acceptable. If however, I found a module that had a score of 9.75, I would think "Damn, this must really be good". The number just tells me more...

Now, if you take a look at the current top rated list for NWN2 modules (since they have a standard, as it is) - http://nwvault.ign.c...2modulesenglish - it seems to be in order to me. In my eyes, it has perfect meaning. Is anyone else confused with this list? Things that the "community at large" deem to be good, always seem to rise to the top. Things that the "community at large" deem to be not as good, aren't even on the first page, if even on the Top Rated list at all. Btw, I put "community at large" in quotes, because too many times, I see people say that the voting system is broken, because for instance, they don't like Dark Waters, and it is rated so high. No, Dark Waters is rated high because a lot of people like it, and that is the point of the ratings!

Finally, with regards to people dealing with voters who give them, as they deem, lowball votes, well... they just have to learn to deal with it. And this is coming from someone who has released 2 modules... I have definitely had my fair share of 1's, 4's, etc. Hell, I admit I used to get pissed when I got a 7, and it brought my average down. As time went on, I accepted this, and now when I look back at the votes, I think, "Hmm, this person was actually spot on with what he/she said". I guess my point is, someone is always going to have a different opinion of what is/is not good. No matter what system we use, people are going to vote low... In my opinion, this will never change, and no matter what we do, it will be there.

Anyway, so yeah, I guess that's it I'm hungry/tired, so please excuse the rambling...

EDIT - I pretty much agree with the concerns about the hosting in general, by the way.
EDIT2 - Removed section complaining about star system. Just went to Amazon (I don't go there that much and do queries based on ratings), and it actually seems fine to me.

Modifié par Challseus, 28 octobre 2009 - 02:00 .

[Snoteye]

Challseus wrote...

Btw, I put "community at large" in quotes, because too many times, I see people say that the voting system is broken, because for instance, they don't like Dark Waters, and it is rated so high. No, Dark Waters is rated high because a lot of people like it, and that is the point of the ratings!

And yet at the same time it is sort of broken -- or rather, less than ideal. There are many games praised for their great story and/or gameplay which suffer from a high number of potentially game breaking bugs (V:tM - Bloodlines, TToEE) or something similar. I do not think games like these should have a score of 9+ because it doesn't accurately reflect the quality of the game. This applies likewise to the Vault. I do second the opinion that a percentage based score is more userfriendly (though that's purely psychological), but still think a single overall score just doesn't do content (in particular mods) justice.

[Adinos]

Well, the big issue is not really the rating system .... the organization, and the current lack of separation between different types of projects is the big one.

Getting a "better" rating system is secondary to getting a system that will allow people to find the content they are looking for - because unless you can do that, ratings are irrelevant.

Modifié par Adinos, 28 octobre 2009 - 10:39 .