211 réponses à ce sujet

[Talogrungi]

It's definately a tricky one. By creating potential scenarios where every squadmate can die, Bioware is kinda backing themselves into a narrative corner.
They can either sacrifice continuity by including (potentially) dead squadmates into the main plot. That would suck.
They can sacrifice more continuity by having imported survivors disappearing with no explanation. Suckage!
They could apply a cheese mechanic to "explain" why dead squadmates are alive. Suck.
They could put killable squadmates into Wrex style cameos. More suck.
The only thing that I think they can do to prevent the suck is to establish a canon of survivors.
They could give the "chosen dead" cameos if they survived in your import.
They could replace the "chosen living" with new squaddies if they died in your import; maybe create Samara/Morinth style choices to allow import players to sacrifice their old squadmates in favour of the new ones.

Modifié par Talogrungi, 11 février 2010 - 09:51 .

[Sharn01]

A lot of people are upset with the treatment of the ME1 cast, and a lack of continuation of their stories. I dont think there is anything wrong with keeping the squad, it just means they need to actually write a good story rather then spend most of the game sending you on recruitment mission's.

[Frotality]

i hear ya OP, bioware has set themselves up for one hell of a development process. practically, unless they dedicate more resources, time, and people than any game developer ever has, i cant see ME3 being anything other than disappointment. would love to be wrong but.....i just dont see that realistically happening.

[FlyinElk212]

Frotality wrote...

i hear ya OP, bioware has set themselves up for one hell of a development process. practically, unless they dedicate more resources, time, and people than any game developer ever has, i cant see ME3 being anything other than disappointment. would love to be wrong but.....i just dont see that realistically happening.

Glad to see another realist on the forums. Here's to hoping Bioware proves us all freakin' wrong.

@Talogrungi--That's probably one of the best summaries as to the methods in which Bioware can go about continuing ME3 I've seen.

If ME2 is any indication for what the developers do whenever they back themselves into a narrative corner, then we're all boned. Reducing all of your "difficult decisions" in ME1 to mere aesthetic differences was a real kick in the groin. I really hope they don't do it again...

"OH, DON'T WORRY! YOU SAVED THE COLLECTOR BASE...BUT IT GOT DESTROYED ACCIDENTLY A WEEK LATER! Woops."

[AGogley]

First of all, Bioware could easily write every single character out of the game without much difficulty.   The majority of the first crew is already gone.  Add enough time between ME2 and ME3 and it's that much easier to come up with a reason for them being gone.  If anything, it's more difficult to write them back in or have them return as the case may be.  And I have yet to see an actual Bioware person say that anything is for certain in ME3.  In fact, everytime I've seen a Bioware employee post, they've said that nothing is set for ME3, they haven't even started on the specific details, and that a lot of it will be driven by fan response.

I believe Tali will be back.  Even if you, like myself, think a romance with her is the most rediculous thing ever (really, you are going to have sex with a three fingered alien and you've never seen her face or for that matter, maybe not even a Quarian's face?), she is still a beloved character and the Quarians are an immensely popular plotline.  I think the relationship between the Geth and the Quarians will be a subplot in ME3.

Garrus also seems to be a particular fan favorite, so I think Bioware will bring him back.

Wrex is popular, so I expect him to be back at least in the same fashion as he was in ME2.  Grunt is boring to talk to or otherwise interact with, so I'm sure most of us wouldn't miss his being gone assuming we get another Krogan with equal combat skills.

The likely candidates for removal are Zaeed, Thane, and Samara because I don't think any of them are particularly captivating nor do any of them seem to be fan favorites.

And that comment about the ship not being big enough for 14 squad members is just silly.  This Normandy is far bigger than the last one and on the original Normandy the crew were hot-swapping in pods.  The current Normandy could easily hold all those cast members and more.

[AGogley]

Talogrungi wrote...

It's definately a tricky one. By creating potential scenarios where every squadmate can die, Bioware is kinda backing themselves into a narrative corner.
They can either sacrifice continuity by including (potentially) dead squadmates into the main plot. That would suck.
They can sacrifice more continuity by having imported survivors disappearing with no explanation. Suckage!
They could apply a cheese mechanic to "explain" why dead squadmates are alive. Suck.
They could put killable squadmates into Wrex style cameos. More suck.
The only thing that I think they can do to prevent the suck is to establish a canon of survivors.
They could give the "chosen dead" cameos if they survived in your import.
They could replace the "chosen living" with new squaddies if they died in your import; maybe create Samara/Morinth style choices to allow import players to sacrifice their old squadmates in favour of the new ones.

I liked the Wrex cameo.  I thought it was well done.  Liara sucked because there was little explanation as to why she was after the shadow broker (there was some, but it was forgettable and not at all convincing).

And aren't all the squadmates in ME2 killable?  Which ones can you not eliminate using specific choices?

[Giantevilhead]

It is possible for characters to return and not be squad members.



Mordin would be put in the lab to do research on the Reapers.

Tali would be put in engineering, she would be responsible for upgrading and repairing the Normandy.

Liara is your intelligence officer, gathering information on various missions.

Kaiden/Ashley coordinates efforts with the Alliances and helps you acquire resources and support from them.

Wrex has to rally the support of the Krogans and can't join you anyway.



That frees up five spots on your squad right there.

[Skilled Seeker]

MyKingdomCold wrote...

I think Bioware kind of has a problem in some ways too.

They have to take into consideration games where Shepard and every squad member in ME2 die. So does that mean they would introduce new characters but these new characters wouldn't be used in a game where Shepard lives? Or would the new characters be there and replace squad members from ME1 and ME2?

If Shep dies then thats the end of the story. You will have to use a default background and create a new Shep in ME3.

[AGogley]

Sharn01 wrote...

A lot of people are upset with the treatment of the ME1 cast, and a lack of continuation of their stories. I dont think there is anything wrong with keeping the squad, it just means they need to actually write a good story rather then spend most of the game sending you on recruitment mission's.

Not me...I thought they did a good job in explaining that they were gone.  What I didn't like is the way the old cast interacted with Shepherd when he did meet up with them (except for Garrus, Tali, and Wrex all of which I was thoroughly satisfied with). Liara, even as a non-LI, was disappointing.  Ashley's scene was a disaster.

[Collider]

ME2 doubled the amount of squad mates, without sacrificing character development - instead, increasing it.

Bioware can do it. The fans want it - they want ME1/2 squad mates to return full force. Bioware can go all out in the final chapter of the trilogy.



Share your opinion with Bioware. http://social.biowar...908/polls/1974/

[FlyinElk212]

AGogley wrote...

And that comment about the ship not being big enough for 14 squad members is just silly.  This Normandy is far bigger than the last one and on the original Normandy the crew were hot-swapping in pods.  The current Normandy could easily hold all those cast members and more.

That comment was a figure of speech, really. Of course they can hold 14 people, probably even more. What worries me is that if they choose to really write back all the characters, what are we left with? A game that starts with over 75% of your crew already obtained? A game that has to divide the limelight between 15+ characters (including Shepard, DLC, etc.)?

An 11 man crew was really pushing it in ME2, and look how shoddy the overall plot turned out to be because of it. Plus, starting with most of your crew already really cuts into the player's feeling of exploration. Progression. Expansion of power.

Plus, from a developing standpoint, making all characters return would really cut into the "souls" of the character. It'd be IMPOSSIBLE for Bioware to construct a way to weave all 14 members seemlessly into the story if they were crewmembers (simply due to lack of disk space, money, time, etc.).

The alternative would be to give your squadmates no real impact on the story at all, and simply include them for the sake of having them be one of your squad members. I really don't want that happening--in that case, I'd rather have some squadmates fill in the role of an important NPC (ala Wrex and his brother on Tuchunga).

[Jaron Oberyn]

The characters will return as squad members. Theres absolutely no reason for them to leave Shepard right before the big fight. In addition, ME2 was all about your squad. Getting to know them, building relationships. Bioware isn't going to throw away your team who you just went through hell and back with for a new team. They won't have you recruit another squad in ME3 when you have the most dangerous individuals in the galaxy already with you.



Just because you don't understand how Bioware will do it doesn't mean they're not. When Bioware announced ME2 and how the decisions that you made would impact it, people though that only a handful, about 3-4, would be imported. Decisions such as did the council die or did you save them? Who died on Virmire? Did you kill Wrex? Who did you choose as councilor. They didn't think Bioware could make it where a little over 100 decisions would import with your characters. But it did. So don't think that just because you don't see how its possible that they won't. All you need to know is that they will use the same method they did with Wrex. Thats the best example i can give. The game save logs whether or not he's alive. If he is, he's leader of Tuchanka and you get a good experience there, all new dialogue, everything. If he's not alive, you get a whole new experience where you aren't really welcome there, theres nobody uniting the clans like Wrex and its just a whole different feel. People didn't think Bioware could do that, but they did.



So if you assume that they will disregard all of the ME2 squad mates because they could possibly die, then 1. You know nothing of game development, and 2. I don't mean to sound rude, but that'd be a retarded assessment to throw away key squad members just for laziness - not willing to script the different sequences. You have nothing to worry about. The surviving ME2 squad will be with you as squad mates in ME3.

[Talogrungi]

AGogley wrote...

I liked the Wrex cameo.  I thought it was well done.  Liara sucked because there was little explanation as to why she was after the shadow broker (there was some, but it was forgettable and not at all convincing).

And aren't all the squadmates in ME2 killable?  Which ones can you not eliminate using specific choices?

Yeah, every squadmate in ME2 can die.

The Wrex cameo was good; but would you be happy if the ENTIRE ME2 squad only had cameos in ME3?

[FlyinElk212]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

So if you assume that they will disregard all of the ME2 squad mates because they could possibly die, then 1. You know nothing of game development, and 2. I don't mean to sound rude, but that'd be a retarded assessment to throw away key squad members just for laziness - not willing to script the different sequences. You have nothing to worry about. The surviving ME2 squad will be with you as squad mates in ME3.

You clearly didn't read my entire post, but it's fine. I'm not disagreeing with you--in fact, I'd absolutely love it if Bioware found a way to return all squadmates.

The question is HOW is Bioware exactly planning on doing this? Based on logistics, and what we've already seen Bioware do to ME1 squadmates, it seems highly unlikely that the surviving ME2 squad will all remain with you. ME3 won't have unlimited funding or unlimited disk space.  The reality is this: the more squadmates you have, the less room for an actual story there is. You want proof? Play ME2. (although to be honest, I sort of liked the story/lack thereof).

That's with 11 teammates. Wanna try it with 14 if the ME1 squaddies return?

[cpolisch]

apotheosic wrote...

................... did you really just say "Debbie Downer?"

That is all.

[AngryTigerP]

I think Tali and Garrus are pretty likely (like, 90%) if they continue their trend of being the token alien allies/friends. But that's a meta-game reason... for in-universe explanations, well, just look at any of the "I know who's returning" threads where people give the canon explanation.

Outside of that, I really don't want to make any guesses.

Modifié par AngryTigerP, 11 février 2010 - 10:59 .

[Brahlis]

Stop with these threads. Seriously, just stop. It's not hard to freakin' figure out.



Samara will leave. Zaeed will leave. That leaves two spots. Add in Liara and Ashley/Kaiden.



Boom, everyone that should be there. Everyone is happy and it's the same amount of dialogue and party members as there was in the last game.



Now shut up with these threads already.

[cpolisch]

Brahlis wrote...

Stop with these threads. Seriously, just stop. It's not hard to freakin' figure out.

Samara will leave. Zaeed will leave. That leaves two spots. Add in Liara and Ashley/Kaiden.

Boom, everyone that should be there. Everyone is happy and it's the same amount of dialogue and party members as there was in the last game.

Now shut up with these threads already.

I agree with this philosphy.  Might not be exactly correct on who leaves, but they aren't getting rid of Tali.  I mean, they'd get bombed I'm almost sure of it.  They aren't going to get rid of Garrus.  I mean, Miranda quit Cerberus for you.  A lot of work or no, Bioware set this up.  They wouldn't have done it without knowing what they were getting into.  It just makes NO sense for them to leave.  It's like "well, we got through that.  See you peeps later.  I'mma find some new people to help me."  The entire game was RECRUITING.  For them to all leave would make ME2 a complete waste of effort.  

I agree, two or three of them will leave.  Dangit, please don't be Jack or Legion.  Maybe even four, they will be replaced by Kaidan/Ash and Liara, and maybe 1 or 2 new people.  They could make the squad bigger if need be, they already said you can't carry over dead Shepard.  So if you let people die, that's your fault.  You'll still have enough people to form a field squad with 3 or 4 people.  I mean in ME, couldn't you reject Garrus or Wrex?  I thought you could.  That left you with only 4.  ME3 is going to have a LOT of variation and Bioware knows that.  For them to not include ME2 characters or make them leave, or even not bring back Liara and Kaidan/Ash would be disgraceful, they know what they did and they knew they had another game coming.  And I'd think, they'd know they's look like a bunch of morons if they deleted the entire purpose of the second game... well, almost.  I suppose the collector threat mattered a little.

So just stop with the threads... and stop saying things like "Debby Downer," you may lose friends.

[screwoffreg]

Several characters are pretty much not going to return.



Samara, Legion, Thane and possibly Grunt all have story related reasons why they cannot return for ME 3.

[FlyinElk212]

cpolisch wrote...

apotheosic wrote...

................... did you really just say "Debbie Downer?"

That is all.

Damn. Should've went with Sour Susie.

[Lord Shadowsong]

Hepzi3 wrote...

Yeah, thats why I dont think they all will come back.

I want Mordin back, but Salarians only live to 40 and someone said that he is 50.
Thane is dead. Kepral's syndrome has no cure. Hanar Healers are the very best in the galaxy, and if they cant figure it out, no one can.
I want Garrus to become a Spectre. I know he wont, because he is totally Anti Council now, But that would give Grunt or Wrex room.
I want Grunt back, But I expect him to become the Leader of the new Krogan Army that is to be made once Mordin and his various Assistants and other galactic scientists cure the Genophage.
I want Legion back,But I think he will probably end up leading a Geth Army or fighting the Quarians.
If The Geth and Quarians go to war, There is no way for both Tali and Legion to come back.
I want Jacob back, But I expect he was the Cerberus traitor. Its just how he questions almost every one of youre squadmate decisions. So many things point to it IMO.
I want Miranda back, and I expect she will come back, being a Love Interest.

I expect the following to come back and be squadmates:
Ashley Williams/Kaidan Alenko
Miranda Lawson
Garrus Vakarian
Liara T'Soni

Beyond that, the list is debatable, and very heavily so.

Your argument for Miranda is shes a LI....

Jacob, Jack, Tali, and Thane are all LI's too... sooo by your logic shouldnt they all come back regardless?

[cpolisch]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

cpolisch wrote...

apotheosic wrote...

................... did you really just say "Debbie Downer?"

That is all.

Damn. Should've went with Sour Susie.

Tough choice.  I see how you could make the mistake.

[FlyinElk212]

@Brahlis & Cpolisch--

Oh, I'm really glad you two have all the answers for us already. You know what, why don't you go ahead and stop every discussion on these forums. Not like a forum's where people discuss there thoughts or opinions on things or anything...

Seriously, simply because you two have a logical explanation for a topic doesn't mean the topic's discussion deserves to be closed. If you're really not a fan of these types of topics, just click the "Back" button on your web browser!! Wow! What a world we live in.

EDIT-- Cpolisch's still cool though. I cracked up a bit on the tough choice comment.

DOUBLE EDIT-- I don't know why that came out so mean. lol-- I'm sorry.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 11 février 2010 - 11:38 .

[dantesfire10]

is there no room for new squaddies in ME3 at all?

[Kreidian]

 The tricky part with ME3 is that the number of surviving squadmates can vary drastically for this sequel. So the number of total possible team members is impossible to pin down.

There are a few known variables however. 
Liara, Ashley/Kaiden are pretty much confirmed as squadmembers for ME3. The devs stated that they were specifically left out of recruitment for ME3 because they wanted to make sure they survived the events of ME2.
On that note the devs have also stated that they plan to continue all of your romance options in the next game in one way or another. This adds to the theory that Liara and Ash/Kaiden will be around, but it also means that all of your ME2 LIs will likely be around for ME3 as well, assuming they survive. 
That means Miranda, Jacob, and even Jack all have a good chance of coming back as squadmates. Tali and Garrus too, though being such huge fan favorites it would be pretty downright stupid of Bioware NOT to include them.
The only romance option that may not survive to ME3 is Thane, do to his illness, though there is always the possibility.

Beyond that things are entirely guesswork.
I'm guessing at least one Krogan will join you again, either Wrex or Grunt, depending on who survived. Grunt has every reason to continue working with you since you are still his battlemaster.

Zaeed, and Kasumi eventually, probably won't be ME3 squadmates. They are both DLC characters so Bioware can't assume that everyone will have them from ME2. Plus they both have reasons enough to go their own way after everything is done.

Samara I don't see coming back, she has her own responsibilities to deal with, though a cameo would definitely be more then fitting. In fact if you're renegade Samara tells you that she would be forced to kill you once she is no longer bound to you due to your renegade actions, so she probably won't make a great companion If you happen to recruit Morinth in her stead then she too will have her own reasons for not joining you, which mainly involve staying out of the limelight so she can continue hunting and killing people.

Mordin would make an awesome cameo I'm sure, but again, not a good choice for a squadmember. He's getting pretty old and will probably want to focus on other things where his age will not slow him down. He might still have a big role in the game from a purely scientific stance.

Legion on the other hand would make an excellent addition to your squad. He clearly has an interest in Shepard and wants to continue working with you to fight the "Old Machines". He will likely play a major role in ME3 as putting and end to the Quarian/Geth war and getting both of them to work together  will probably be important for fighting the Reapers. Legion already told you that he can serve as a terminal to the entire rest of the Geth, after all.

So right now from my point of view the likely scope of your ME3 squadmates stands as this:
Liara
Kaiden/Ashley
Tali
Garrus
Wrex/Grunt
Miranda
Jacob
Jack
Legion

That's 9 so far which is a pretty good sized group for the game. Of course this all assumes the people survive.  Since it's possible that everyone on that list except for the top two people are dead by the time ME3 rolls around, it's more then likely that the dev team will be adding a few more new faces to the mix as well. At the very least they'll need one or two more to fill out the team enough, as well as give people someone new to talk to. That would make up to 11 team members, which is what we have now. Possibly a 12th for a DLC character. That would be about right.

Anything more then this would mean we would start to lose prior teammembers or we wouldn't be able to spend enough time on dialog with the ones we have. Both of which would be a very bad thing in my opinion. There is already too little dialog with your own teammates in ME2, and I would hope they would add more.