211 réponses à ce sujet

[Sapienti]

Ha. "Debby Downer" that's a new one to me. Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if the roster in ME3 was 15 strong or something (being generous), with you starting the game at almost max capacity if you saved everyone in the end at ME2. Mass Effect isn't your typical RPG series. The whole second act in the trilogy was building your team, with the Collectors having the roll of motivator more than antagonist. With that in mind it would make sense to have Shepard going in to ME3 without even thinking about picking up more team members. The appeal in other games may be about starting small. But this series story spans multiple games.



That said, they aren't confined to keeping everyone around. They could easily snip a few characters, but that doesn't seem very likely. I wouldn't be surprised to see more than a couple painful choices to make room for new members, they've built attachments to the characters in ME2, they now have the ability to tear our hearts out of our chests in ME3.

[petipas1414]

Not being a fanboy or anything... but I have faith Bioware won't let us down.



If someone like Tali were not in the next game, it would get violent o.o



I really really really hope they give us a full cast of familiar facesssssss

[ebola9717]

I really hope team building is scaled back in ME3. I think at this point, with all of Shepard's accomplishments, he shouldn't be searching the galaxy for recruits and earning loyalty. We should start the game with a list of potential squadmates that consists of every character from ME1 and 2, plus maybe one or two new people, that are willing to join, and will come on with absolute loyalty. We pick and choose, say 10-12, from the list at the very start of the game, they join immediately, and then you're off to save the galaxy. No loyalty missions, no sidetracking, it's gotta be all about the Reapers. Squad interaction would take place aboard the Normandy or during the actual story missions. Individual squadmate quests would still be related to the main story. Like taking Tali to rally the quarians, Legion with the geth, Wrex/Grunt with the Krogan etc. I know I'm asking for a lot, but I think this is the best way to go.

[FlyinElk212]

IceSavage wrote...

Well you have to consider that for some people certain characters could be dead. Consider the possibility that both Jack, Samara and Miranda are dead. Basically you would have no main Biotic person. And that could cause trouble for the storyline of ME3. So there would have to be mandatory additions for such possibilities.

Wow, Ice. I didn't even consider that. If a player had a runthrough where all biotics/tech were killed, then someone HAS to be written in to compensate. If Bioware doesn't, then they're only encouraging players to go back to ME2 to save everyone. That seriously hampers individual player differences.

@ Sapienti-- That is a great point. I've rarely ever played RPG trilogy's (come to think of it, have I played any??) so who's to say what a 3rd game in a trilogy is supposed to be like? Maybe games like that are meant to have all characters readily available--focus less on a feeling of progression and focus more on overall storyline.

I originally thought that Bioware'd wanna make each game feel like an individual experience; an individual RPG w/ it's own storyarc that can be playable w/o the other two. But who's to say that that's what Bioware's gonna do? They clearly have a plan if they made ME2 as variable as it is.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Did you see the end game cut scene?



Youre gonna need all the help you can get bro

[AGogley]

The moderators here have said that they haven't even started the details on Mass Effect 3 and don't know what will happen. They are listening to feedback before make any plans.

[We Tigers]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

IceSavage wrote...

Well you have to consider that for some people certain characters could be dead. Consider the possibility that both Jack, Samara and Miranda are dead. Basically you would have no main Biotic person. And that could cause trouble for the storyline of ME3. So there would have to be mandatory additions for such possibilities.

Wow, Ice. I didn't even consider that. If a player had a runthrough where all biotics/tech were killed, then someone HAS to be written in to compensate. If Bioware doesn't, then they're only encouraging players to go back to ME2 to save everyone. That seriously hampers individual player differences.

I think this is actually one of the easier problems to solve.  Even if Bioware does let players bring back all the survivors, you have to think they'd be adding a handful of new characters anyway.  You could definitely cover all the combat specialties in even 3-4 new characters that would be included regardless of how many ME2 characters stuck around.  Biotics are particularly non-problematic since Liara can step back into that role for any player.

[Arcadionn]

RiouHotaru wrote...

MyKingdomCold wrote...

I think Bioware kind of has a problem in some ways too.

They have to take into consideration games where Shepard and every squad member in ME2 die. So does that mean they would introduce new characters but these new characters wouldn't be used in a game where Shepard lives? Or would the new characters be there and replace squad members from ME1 and ME2?

Easily solved.  If Shepard dies in ME2, you cannot import that save into ME3.  End of your story.

That is indeed what Casey Hudson already said... why is this still being debated?

He said "This is the story of commander shepard" "in mass effect 2, commander shepard can die, permanently"

do le math.

[FlyinElk212]

We Tigers wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

IceSavage wrote...

Well you have to consider that for some people certain characters could be dead. Consider the possibility that both Jack, Samara and Miranda are dead. Basically you would have no main Biotic person. And that could cause trouble for the storyline of ME3. So there would have to be mandatory additions for such possibilities.

Wow, Ice. I didn't even consider that. If a player had a runthrough where all biotics/tech were killed, then someone HAS to be written in to compensate. If Bioware doesn't, then they're only encouraging players to go back to ME2 to save everyone. That seriously hampers individual player differences.

I think this is actually one of the easier problems to solve.  Even if Bioware does let players bring back all the survivors, you have to think they'd be adding a handful of new characters anyway.  You could definitely cover all the combat specialties in even 3-4 new characters that would be included regardless of how many ME2 characters stuck around.  Biotics are particularly non-problematic since Liara can step back into that role for any player.

True enough. It isn't like there are a lot of categories of characters to fill. Had they created a non-killable Tech-ie and Soldier, that wouldn't have even made this a problem.

I still have to wonder though if bringing in new characters NOW, in the third installment, instead of expounding on previously established characters, is a good idea.

[AGogley]

good idea to whom? Good idea to fans who want every minutia of everyone's story resolved? Probably not. Good idea to the game makers who don't want to deal with 2,000 variables? Probably.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Arcadionn wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

MyKingdomCold wrote...

I think Bioware kind of has a problem in some ways too.

They have to take into consideration games where Shepard and every squad member in ME2 die. So does that mean they would introduce new characters but these new characters wouldn't be used in a game where Shepard lives? Or would the new characters be there and replace squad members from ME1 and ME2?

Easily solved.  If Shepard dies in ME2, you cannot import that save into ME3.  End of your story.

That is indeed what Casey Hudson already said... why is this still being debated?

He said "This is the story of commander shepard" "in mass effect 2, commander shepard can die, permanently"

do le math.

Wait what?

The head dev said your shep CAN die perm in ME2? Are they going to go the Cerberus 3 trillion dollar man route again?

[FlyinElk212]

@ Agogley-- Well said, though I moreso meant storywise. Bringing in new characters to the third installment of trilogies is rare. It almost seems like a cop-out in plot. "Well, this situation's getting pretty hairy, but instead of an old character finally overcoming his own story, here's X character!"

[Wynne]

AGogley wrote...

Wynne: Any of the characters can be written in or out of the storyline without much difficulty. I think Bioware is going to bring back the fan favorites or those with plotlines that heretofore have been deeply integrated into the story (the Krogan genophage, the Quarians/Geth, Garrus, for example).

Yeah, you're probably right about that... but they're going to be thinking from the perspective of character and of plot and of newcomers to the ME universe for ME3. While I'm sure their fans have some major sway with them and could probably ensure our favorites come back, I think some of these were designed with their potential death in mind and thus won't be actual squadmates. Look at Wrex, for instance.

Even though people loved Mordin, he was very old and could find some other vital thing to do, so it may be that we see him in ME3, but I'd say it's safe to bet your bum on the fact that he's not going to be a squadmate for ME3. There's too much chance of him dying because he's at the top of the squishy list in ME2.

Thane could be saved, though. It depends how many women want him back. He was very popular with the ladies, his storyline was dramatic, and I'd like to see what he's like when he's NOT talking about his wife and kid, so, APART from the family issues, as well as what he sounds like when his lungs aren't rotting from a disease--and ME3 would be the perfect place for that to happen. So they could do it for Thane, but I'm just not sure. If he wasn't recruited for ME2 or if he died during ME2, then the high chance of death may mean not too many players see him.

And though it would make me very sad, I'd rather they concentrate on making the squadmates really good  and deep than spread everything too thin. The romances felt too short to me in ME2. So if they're not going to spend much time on Thane, I'd rather have a moving goodbye in the beginning than a squadmate who talks to me like three times during the course of the entire game because they didn't want to waste time on something a lot of players may not even see.

KainrycKarr wrote...

Do you people freaking read?
...
* I think the biggest thing is first of all the resolution of all the plots, all the decisions players have made throughout. Being able to play and experience all the surviving cast members, all the characters people liked. That’s one big part of it.

Yeah, but it's Casey Hudson, man. You've got to read it carefully. He's a good guy, but he's also shifty, like a lawyer.

All the surviving cast members. Which may not include Thane because he was dying, and Mordin because he was quite old. All the characters people liked, too. So probably the most popular ones.

So while I appreciate the fact that they're thinking in that direction, I'm not convinced we're in the clear.

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

The head dev said your shep CAN die perm in ME2? Are they going to go the Cerberus 3 trillion dollar man route again?

Absolutely not, not in the slightest. Your Shepard can die permanently in ME2--but ME is the story of Commander Shepard. Meaning, if Shepard dies, you won't continue into ME3 because the story of Commander Shepard ended with Mass Effect 2 when Shepard died for the final, definitive time with no possibility of revival. That is THE END for that Shepard, finito, farewell, adios, sayonara, the Shep has sailed. That was clarified in interviews.

If your Shepard died in Mass Effect 2, you don't ever find out what happens to that universe. Probably, the Reapers win.

They CAN'T go the Cerberus 3 trillion credit Shep route because the only reason they were able to bring you back this time is that parts of you were intact. You were burned, you had internal injuries, you were pretty much cryogenically frozen because you were exposed to space--but your brain was there and intact, they just had to revive it. In ME2, your brain EXPLODES if you die. Your internal organs can't be juiced back to life because they also EXPLODED. It's over.

So don't let anybody confuse you. If your Shepard died in ME2, it was dramatic and cool, but if you want to play that character through to ME2 then you will have to reload and make other choices.

[Daveastation]

Legion is (based on your choices) at least 1000 geth, so he could be in your party quite easily in the third game, It would be great if he was killed several times, only to keep coming back.

[FlyinElk212]

Wynne wrote...

Even though people loved Mordin, he was very old and could find some other vital thing to do, so it may be that we see him in ME3, but I'd say it's safe to bet your bum on the fact that he's not going to be a squadmate for ME3. There's too much chance of him dying because he's at the top of the squishy list in ME2.

I love well thought out posts! Wynne gets a very big cookie.

I could see it coming down to this: the squadmate will return if he/she has a rate chance of survival in the suicide mission. Chracters like Miranda, who are labeled "good leaders", will return based on having a high chance of survival.

In Miranda's case, this argument works in stride. They already have CG models of her character, she's already one of the poster children for ME2, and is very important to the story.

[KainrycKarr]

I guess people won't read.

[AGogley]

Kainry:



Including yourself. The problem is you post an interview which has been contracdicted by posts by Bioware employees on this forum, which state that they haven't started the detail work yet and nothing is fixed. They have also said the details will be hashed out somewhat according to fanfare.

[AGogley]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

@ Agogley-- Well said, though I moreso meant storywise. Bringing in new characters to the third installment of trilogies is rare. It almost seems like a cop-out in plot. "Well, this situation's getting pretty hairy, but instead of an old character finally overcoming his own story, here's X character!"

The biggest problem between ME1 and ME2 is that in ME2, it's possible to kill off any single teammate.  In ME1, you cana kill off Wrex and then Ashley or Kaiden.  Everyone else lives. So there are a lot more variables to work with after the end of ME2.

I think it's fair to say Bioware is bringing back Ashley or Kaiden and Liara in some sort of role, not necessarily that of a squadmate.  They've practically said that LI from ME1 will be back.  I think Garrus is hugely popular, so they may plan for him to be around assuming he lives through your timeline.  I think the same is true with Tali.  Plus, as I've said many times, the Geth/Quarian plot is now a intergral subplot.  Everyone else is up in the air, although I do think Mordin is a strong possibility due to his popularity.

[Myounage]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

IceSavage wrote...

Well you have to consider that for some people certain characters could be dead. Consider the possibility that both Jack, Samara and Miranda are dead. Basically you would have no main Biotic person. And that could cause trouble for the storyline of ME3. So there would have to be mandatory additions for such possibilities.

Wow, Ice. I didn't even consider that. If a player had a runthrough where all biotics/tech were killed, then someone HAS to be written in to compensate. If Bioware doesn't, then they're only encouraging players to go back to ME2 to save everyone. That seriously hampers individual player differences.

@ Sapienti-- That is a great point. I've rarely ever played RPG trilogy's (come to think of it, have I played any??) so who's to say what a 3rd game in a trilogy is supposed to be like? Maybe games like that are meant to have all characters readily available--focus less on a feeling of progression and focus more on overall storyline.

I originally thought that Bioware'd wanna make each game feel like an individual experience; an individual RPG w/ it's own storyarc that can be playable w/o the other two. But who's to say that that's what Bioware's gonna do? They clearly have a plan if they made ME2 as variable as it is.

Bringing Liara back as a squadmate fixes the biotic problem.  Not sure about a tech..

[AGogley]

That's a nice thought, but that's a lot of variables. It would be the greatest RPG ever.

[FlyinElk212]

poisonoustea wrote...

Please don't kill me, but I think they'll do something a-la Chrono Cross. Not a fixed set of characters, but a whole selection of possible recruits. Character selection was expanded from 6 to 12 between ME and ME2. I bet we'll have even more in ME3, but they won't be all available. Maybe you can keep only part of them while the others take their part in the story in a different way. You might need, say, Tali on the admiralty board so you can choose to send her there and recruit another tech specialist. Or you can keep her because you feel she is necessary, and opt for another route in dealing with the Quarian admiralty. Just an example.

That way, if you lost your original characters, you have their replacements. If you want to keep 'em, you can keep 'em. If you want to send them out (and have them as NPCs) you can still replace them. And this way the dialogues and the scripts can be kept under control (you'll never have all characters involved, just a part of 'em. If the devs break the storytelling in parts like in ME2, they can predict the flow of dialogues/recruiting/etc).
This way, everybody's happy.

Nice, Poison. I wasn't convinced with the initial post, but after further explaining, I'm starting to like your idea. Bioware can take this a step further and make some "replacement" characters NPCs from the past. That way, it eliminates the need to create a new flux of individuals that suddenly appear to help Shepard at the tail end of his journey.

The biggest problem I see with this is budget and disc-space. Bioware'd need a hell of a lot of VOs if they're going to do the 14 squadmates and 14 replacements. They COULD just limit the squadmates roles, but I'd much rather them opt for less characters, more development...as I'm sure many here would.

Unfortunately, I've yet to really see a viable solution to this problem that doesn't have a vital flaw. It's usually either Bioware's resources, or...something that just plain sucks.

EDIT: Your bolding of "please don't kill me" is hilarious.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 12 février 2010 - 07:59 .

[KainrycKarr]

AGogley wrote...

Kainry:

Including yourself. The problem is you post an interview which has been contracdicted by posts by Bioware employees on this forum, which state that they haven't started the detail work yet and nothing is fixed. They have also said the details will be hashed out somewhat according to fanfare.

They have said nothing that contradicts that they intend to allow people the possibility to play and experience surviving characters.

And the fanfare makes it plainly obvious that fans want to experience and play surviving characters.

[KainrycKarr]

AGogley wrote...

Kainry:

Including yourself. The problem is you post an interview which has been contracdicted by posts by Bioware employees on this forum, which state that they haven't started the detail work yet and nothing is fixed. They have also said the details will be hashed out somewhat according to fanfare.

They have said nothing that contradicts that they intend to allow people the possibility to play and experience surviving characters.

And the fanfare makes it plainly obvious that fans want to experience and play surviving characters.