211 réponses à ce sujet

[GenericPlayer2]

I more or less agree with the OP, but until BioWare begins to release details of ME3, we will hear every form of wishful thinking to justify people's hopes for what they want ME3 to be. And maybe that should be expected. The character with biggest fan following is often mentioned as being "too important" to the storyline for her to not be on the squad in ME3. The fact is, ME2 gives her two, not one, opportunities for her to die. She's not even a mandatory recruitment option in the pre-Horizon dossiers. Still that does not dissuade the fanatics.



Whatever happens, I want ME3 to be a great story that is not driven by fan service. Anything else is gravy.

[lastpawn]

ConVito wrote...

sodacatkun wrote...

we basicly got all our party at the begging in me1 and had an awesome game XD
btw chrono cross had 44 party members. you couldnt get all 44, cause of the different actions you take and what you do, so maybe they will do that in this one, depending on what choices you make is who joins your team, example, you stick with ceberus, ash/kai wont join back up wth you, you may even have to kill them

This certainly seems like the best course of action for BioWare, as well as for the fans' sakes.

Except we're not discussing what's "best" but what's optimally feasible. A for-profit company will always do as much as it sees necessary to make most profit with least effort. Which, if I had to guess, doesn't include writing scripts/creating animations/recording dialogue for all the playable characters so far.

[lastpawn]

Whatever happens, I want ME3 to be a great story that is not driven by fan service. Anything else is gravy.

QFT (and, um, emphasized FT, too).

[Schroing]

Forcing Shepard to pick from all of the available squadmates so that he can only have a fraction of them seems viable to me.

[shep82]

I seriously doubt Kaiden/Ashley will be a squadmate as they both make it quite clear how they feel about you and Cerberus. Liara is doubtful but a possibility. My guess is most of the people in your crew in ME 2 will be your crew in ME 3.

[SOULdi3r]

MyKingdomCold wrote...

I think Bioware kind of has a problem in some ways too.

They have to take into consideration games where Shepard and every squad member in ME2 die. So does that mean they would introduce new characters but these new characters wouldn't be used in a game where Shepard lives? Or would the new characters be there and replace squad members from ME1 and ME2?

 if shepard dies you cant import that save to ME3

[FlyinElk212]

shep82 wrote...

I seriously doubt Kaiden/Ashley will be a squadmate as they both make it quite clear how they feel about you and Cerberus. Liara is doubtful but a possibility. My guess is most of the people in your crew in ME 2 will be your crew in ME 3.

Hmm. Interesting point--I forgot that each player can either:

A. Still be loyal to Cerberus (handed over the base), or
B. Tell Cerberus to ****** off while you do your own thing (destroyed the base)

That just complicates the situation FURTHER!!! Making me believe even more that Bioware will just LOLEVERY1 DIEZ, HERE'S NEW TEAMMATEZ!! us.

Auugh!!!

[SimonTheFrog]

We will probably play the grandchild of Shepard, 60 years later...

[Qwepir]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Maybe Tali'll lead the Quarian troops.

Dunno if this has been said, but she can't lead 8 people, let alone an entire army.

[ebidebby]

Hey, I take offense to the title of this thread (not really, but my name is Debby), but I agree with the OP. There will probably either be some kind of overhaul that will make the majority of the squad you collected in ME2 irrelevant. I can't see any other way that ME3 wouldn't require infinite strings of possibilities...

Sometimes I wonder if the romance aspect is more like a James Bond type thing - different girl/guy in every edition.

Modifié par ebidebby, 22 mars 2010 - 02:59 .

[Collider]

I'd like to present my thread which presents a case for squad mates returning. People are EXAGGERATING how difficult it would be for them to return.
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/1715314

[FlyinElk212]

Double Post?

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 22 mars 2010 - 03:17 .

[FlyinElk212]

ebidebby wrote...

Hey, I take offense to the title of this
thread.

LOL! Okay, it took me a good 5 minutes to get this. I'm sorry, Debby! I use your name with the best of intentions!!

Collider wrote...

I'd like to present my thread which presents a case for squad mates returning. People are EXAGGERATING how difficult it would be for them to return.
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/1715314

It's not an issue of story relevance or functionality. It's an issue of constraints on the developer's side: time, resources, disk space, and variability are all against them.

To have everyone return could be catastrophic. Bioware could barely handle creating 12 great characters: how would they manage doing 14, and perhaps much more if they create "replacement" characters?

The only way they would is if, as I noted, they made your squad completely irrelevant to anything with limited dialogue (which would suck), or if they didn't bring everyone back, as my post and your "point D" suggests.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 22 mars 2010 - 03:12 .

[Collider]

FlyinElk212 wrote...
It's not an issue of difficulty relevance. It's an issue of constraints on the developer's side: time, resources, disk space, and variability are all against them.

Not when you put the entire game into context. The entire game took a lot of time, resources, disk space, and variability. Please read my thread if you haven't.

To have everyone return could be catastrophic.

You don't know that. Unless you're in the game industry? Probably not.

Bioware could barely handle creating 12 great characters:

You don't know whether it was barely. Unless you were watching over their shoulders while they worked sweating and shivering

how would they manage doing 14,

I know your thread is about every squad mate returning, but it still seems to me that you're exaggerating. ME2 literally doubled the amount of squad mates with no character depth sacrificed in the process. Instead of worrying about creating 10 new characters (that's the ~number of new squad mates in ME2), they have the easier task of developing existing squad mates.
 

and perhaps much more if they create "replacement" characters?

Realistically, creating replacement characters would be foolish. I can see them creating new characters, but replacement characters is too foolish a concept for me.

The only way they would is if, as I noted, they made your squad completely irrelevant to anything with limited dialogue (which would suck), or if they didn't bring everyone back, as my post and your "point D" suggests.

False. They could easily allow squad mates to affect certain plotlines if they are alive. The only thing they CANNOT do is make squad mates VITAL to the storyline so much that you cannot complete the game if they were not alive.

[Pinkflamingo22]

MyKingdomCold wrote...

I think Bioware kind of has a problem in some ways too.

They have to take into consideration games where Shepard and every squad member in ME2 die. So does that mean they would introduce new characters but these new characters wouldn't be used in a game where Shepard lives? Or would the new characters be there and replace squad members from ME1 and ME2?

If shepard dies you cannot import into me3... so no.

[Apollo Starflare]

I agree, the question of just how on earth Bioware are going to solve this little connundrum and keep as many fans happy as possible is one I doubt anyone can properly answer untill we get more info on ME3.

My thoughts on the characters (wall of text alert):

Zaeed and Kasumi: DLC characters and both with good write out clauses. Obviously havn't gotten to know Kasumi yet, but seems likely she won't just give up her day job after this is all over.

Grunt and Wrex: Considering the controversy when Grunt was announced, I honestly can't see them making a new Krogan character for ME3. Grunt ended up being okay with the fans, and with Wrex in a good position to lead the Krogan into battle I can see the younger Krogan following his battlemaster a while longer yet.

Garrus and Tali: Garrus... Well i'm biased but I really do think he will be back. His character arc has always seemed to me to be that of a protege to Shepard, and I can see that continuing to a conclusion in the finale. Not to mention he is a fan favourite. The one thing against him at this point is that we have never had another Turian squadmember, and it must be a big temptation to design a new one. Two Turian's isn't crazy of course, but still...
Tali is an odd one. She will undoubtably have a big role (there is no way Bioware will ignore the fan support for her), however it could be as a Quarian Admiral or as Tali Zorah Vas Normandy. There are options in ME2 that prevent both *shrugs*.

Miranda and Jacob: Miranda is obviously the favourite here, however I would be surprised if Jacob doesn't get a cameo ala Kaidan/Ashley or even a role in the finale. I can see Miranda being recruitable if they can work a deal out with Yvonne Strahovski.

Mordin: He is very old and definitely seems to have come to the end of his journey. He has faced his past and such, and I can see them casting a new Salarian in ME3 despite his popularity.

Thane: He is going to die... But he is also quite popular and a LI. I wouldn't write him off yet, especially as they developed him exclusively as a LI from the start.

Legion: Almost certainly going to appear, we can but hope as a squadmate! Considering how Geth download themselves and such I think he is very likely to be recruitable. I did hear Legion was written by a dev who no longer works at Bioware though, so hopefully if he does come back he'll seem like the same character.

Samara/Morinth: I think Samara will be reduced to a cameo, Morinth might not appear at all. Liara is a dead cert for a squaddie...

Jack: I'm going to be cautiously optimistic and say she'll be back. She is such a unique character it would be a terrible shame to have her only used for ME2.

Kaidan/Ashley: Strong possibility. They are still very popular and essentially take up one squad position. As they are both human heroes their role in the story could be very similar as well making it easy to create one character out of two saving resources. Of course if these two were made recruitable the Miranda/Jacob fans would want their LI to be recruitable too...

Liara: As I said earlier, I would bet anything that she will be recruitable in the third game. Her comic book even sold well I hear.

So:
Definitely - Liara, Kaidan/Ashley, Legion, Grunt, Garrus, Tali
Maybe - Jack, Thane, Miranda, Jacob
You are the weakest link, goodbye - Zaeed, Kasumi, Samara, Morinth, Mordin

The definitely+maybe pile seems like too many to me. It is possible they could combine certain ME2 characters together as well (e.g. Miranda/Jacob), but too many of those would get fiddly so I don't know. It really depends on whether they will be equally generous to each LI. Jack seems much more likely than Thane at this point, does that mean one could become recruitable but the other won't? At this point there are a whole lotta fans they can... annoy to put it lightly heh.
(wall of text ends.)

[FlyinElk212]

@ Collider--

Those are some great points, but I must admit, it's hard to defend myself if you dissect every word I say. I'll just start off by saying, I use the word "could" when discussing Bioware's development team, because I know that I "could" be wrong. I'm making a general statement--not something I necessarily believe to be fact.

I did read your post (it's a very good read, btw) and I could definitely get behind a lot of your suggestions. I do believe, however, that you are overestimating Bioware's developmental firepower when suggesting that everyone could potentially return as meaningful squadmates.

Throwing surviving characters back into the squad is well and all, but unless they create an impact to the story, their existence within the squad is meaningless. Might as well have the character dead, you know? Therefore, creating a new purpose for every returning character to the storyline, and creating variables which occur if the character no longer exists in the universe, is going to take up a LOT of disk space.

I could see the implementation being as simple as "if you kept Tali alive, you'll be able to more easily recruit the Quarians to fighting against the Reapers", which would be warmly welcomed by me. But coming up with main storyline scenarios like that for each character is something that's very difficult for me to imagine.

[screwoffreg]

I think Bioware has heard loud and clear that most people want the same squadmembers back, at least a majority of them. If you get them killed, guess what you are a horrible Commander and you pay the price.



I am sure there may be some new faces in ME 3, it mentions Bailey as a possible recruit at the end of Thane's loyalty quest, but for the most part it wouldn't make sense to shoehorn in a whole new team. The end of a trilogy is for wrapping things up not introducing whole new storylines and rushing to complete them.



Also, I think there will be room for a small handful of new recruits. Its not ensured that ME 1 characters will return though the roles they play will be significant. Kaiden/Ashley could become SPECTRES of their own and Liara may become the Shadowbroker. They are hardly able to join your team in that case.

[ebidebby]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

ebidebby wrote...

Hey, I take offense to the title of this
thread.

LOL! Okay, it took me a good 5 minutes to get this. I'm sorry, Debby! I use your name with the best of intentions!!

It's okay! I get Debby Downer a lot, along with Little Debbie and Debbie Does Dallas. Least fond of that last one.

But back on topic, Bioware can't please everyone, no matter what they do. Some people are gonna be pissed off no matter what. Some squad members will likely return, in varying degrees of importance, but from a programming perspective, I can't see how everyone would get what they want without several years of development and an expensive 5 disk game...

I'll still play it, though, whatever happens to my squad.

[Collider]

[quote]Apollo Starflare wrote...
Zaeed and Kasumi: DLC characters and both with good write out clauses. Obviously havn't gotten to know Kasumi yet, but seems likely she won't just give up her day job after this is all over.[/quote]
Yep, don't need them to return.

[quote]Garrus and Tali: Garrus...[/quote]
I consider Garrus to be the most likely to return in my opinion. He's been with Shepard for two games and doesn't have the same situation as Tali is in. He has no say in Turian politics whatsoever as far as we know. The only way I could see Garrus as leaving would be to fight more criminals (unlikely seeing as he sees the big picture) or if Shepard is very um...misbehaving. I guess.

[quote]Tali is an odd one.[/quote]
Yes she is. Could become an admiral, but then again that seems to hinge on whether she was exiled or not. It's possible that she will stay with Shepard if he romances her, though.

[quote]Miranda[/quote]
Miranda is the most likely to survive in the suicide mission, so I see her as having a larger role in ME3 than some other squad mates. She's also probably the most popular love interest in ME2.

[quote]Mordin:[/quote]
Mordin has a decade longer to live. I wouldn't mind him being an NPC on the Normandy. I just want to see him back. A lot of people loved the character.
[quote]
Thane: He is going to die... But he is also quite popular and a LI. I wouldn't write him off yet, especially as they developed him exclusively as a LI from the start.[/quote]
Indeed, I don't think Bioware will write him off.

[quote]Legion:[/quote]
Lots of potential with Legion and the Geth plot.
[quote]
Samara/Morinth:[/quote]
Seems like Samara, Zaeed, and Kasumi are the most likely not to return as squad mates. IIRC Samara either says she'll continue being a Justicar if you're paragon or she'll hunt you down later if you're renegade.

[quote]Jack: I'm going to be cautiously optimistic and say she'll be back. She is such a unique character it would be a terrible shame to have her only used for ME2.[/quote
More likely if you romanced her, otherwise I could see her on her own doing her own thing.

[Maera Imrov]

lastpawn wrote...

Whatever happens, I want ME3 to be a great story that is not driven by fan service. Anything else is gravy.

QFT (and, um, emphasized FT, too).

I want it to be great, too, above all else. However, as we were always taught in school, you do not introduce 'new' ideas, people, thoughts in the conclusions of your essays or stories, unless you want to suddenly lenghten them. Frankly, I don't like Liara or Kaidan/Ashley, and if that's the only people we're getting back, then they toss in a bunch of new people for me to try and rush to get to care about before the epic conclusion, I am going to be spectacularly underwhelmed. I understand the limitations, and that there is a budget, but there's only so much shoving aside they can do to appease the newcomers and whatnot before it guts the story.

There was no point to even putting the other characters in the game if we're going to end up with a handful from only the first, a few newbies in 3, and a bunch of half-baked-Awakenings-esque cameos for everyone else. Might as well had Shepard solo the Collector Base. I hear Red Mage/Ninja is good at soloing stuff.

[Collider]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

@ Collider--

Those are some great points, but I must admit, it's hard to defend myself if you dissect every word I say.

Lol, sorry, I have a tendency to do that. No offense intended on my part.

I'll just start off by saying, I use the word "could" when discussing Bioware's development team, because I know that I "could" be wrong. I'm making a general statement--not something I necessarily believe to be fact.

Sorry if I came off as accusing you of saying it's fact. Didn't mean too.

I did read your post (it's a very good read, btw) and I could definitely get behind a lot of your suggestions. I do believe, however, that you are overestimating Bioware's developmental firepower when suggesting that everyone could potentially return as meaningful squadmates.

I honestly don't think I'm overestimating them. The entire game was amazing in it's story. ME2 did a perfectly good job of tying squad mates to the plot yet not making any of them aside from Mordin absolutely vital.

Throwing surviving characters back into the squad is well and all, but unless they create an impact to the story, their existence within the squad is meaningless.

I'll have to disagree. Most ME2 squad mates had little direct affect on the storyline, but they are quite praised. All of the love interests aside from Miranda need not be there. But at the same time they did affect the story somewhat. Jacob helps Shepard in the beginning and also provides the armor that will prevent a squad mate from dying on the Normandy. Garrus has his Thanix Cannon which also prevents a squad mate from dying. Tali has the energy shield which also prevents a squad mate from dying. Thane contributes to the holding the line segment of the suicide mission and Jack can be used for the biotic shield.

Might as well have the character dead, you know? Therefore, creating a new purpose for every returning character to the storyline, and creating variables which occur if the character no longer exists in the universe, is going to take up a LOT of disk space.

Problem is you don't know, and you don't know the specifics. Whether a squad mate survived or not is binary. 0 or 1.

I could see the implementation being as simple as "if you kept Tali alive, you'll be able to more easily recruit the Quarians to fighting against the Reapers", which would be warmly welcomed by me. But coming up with main storyline scenarios like that for each character is something that's very difficult for me to imagine.

We don't need the squad mates to be integral or vital to the storyline. Just look at ME2. It's more work creating new characters than having them return. Why? new characters need new artwork, texturing, modeling, animating, dialogue, writing, background, storyline role, missions, voice acting (very costly). While with existing characters you've got their personality down, you've got everything at the ready.

Modifié par Collider, 22 mars 2010 - 03:42 .

[Soldier989]

ussbones wrote...

Some of the characters have easy write outs, either they are dying from a sickness (Thane) or only said they'd help you on this one mission (Zaheed, Samara) or are just to dangerous to keep on board (Jack).

For the others, however, (Garrus, Tali, Miranda, Mordin, Jacob, Grunt) some of them have pledged themselves to you for the rest of the game, in the case of Grunt, your his krantt, as well as his battlemaster. With Tali, she's now Tali'zorah vas Normandy and Miranda/Jacob both quit TIM's employ, so they are also stuck with you.

Garrus and Mordin, well Mordin is the scientist salarian, so he needs to be back and Garrus/Shepard have a bromance going on there, so he's stuck on the ship too. Also, your LI plays a BIG part in ME3, according to the devs.

So, your gurrenteed a few people to stay on (6 or 7) and you'll be able to get more squadmates in ME3. Hopefully, though they will stay true to their ME1/ME2 fans and not cater to newbies into the series, cause really, who the hell wouldn't buy ME1/ME2 and just run out and pick up ME3?

I doubt Shepard would kick Jack off the ship, I think Zaeed would stay with Shepard if you got him his revenge, and Samara is wortless, useless, and emotionless so she can be eaten by a Reaper in my opinion.

And Kasumi would probably stay with Shepard too.
  

Modifié par Soldier989, 22 mars 2010 - 03:43 .

[Collider]

I might also add this. From Gameinformer, interviewing Casey Hudson.



Q: Certain party members from the first game can be recruited in Mass Effect 2. Does that mean we'll see characters from this game make a return in ME3?

A: You will definitely be able to see characters from ME2 in ME3, as long as they're alive in the end of your story. It's a challenge for sure, but it's also going to be a huge payoff for players of the Mass Effect trilogy to see what happens with all these characters and storylines started by the first two games.