21 réponses à ce sujet

[T-Kay]

Just finished running through this DLC and am fairly disappointed. I already knew story wasn't Dragon Age's strong point, but this DLC contains no story at all. Less than Wardens keep which at least had some sort of fluff. What a let down. The title already gives away the fact that you're going to be visiting places you've been to before, but seriously. Ostagar camp -> Tower of Ishal -> Dalish Elf origin tunnel -> 10 by 10 foot battlefield. WTF?

On top of that, I already couldn't care less for King Cailen to begin with, but allowing the four companions to burn the sucker on a ritual bed of fire without actually anyone there to care is pretty pointless. I'd at least have expected the warden to be able to bring the body back to the Arl of Redcliffe.

BioWare, put some effort into your work next time.

[Darkannex]

Well - the dlc was 5.00. While I found it pretty thin myself I think it wasn't as bad as being made out to be. You get okay armor, and hear some interesting tidbits from some characters (Loghain especially), you can turn in a key you get from Ost in the beginning for a better staff-and at least wrap up some threads.



It would be nice if you could return Cailan's body-but it is a stand alone DLC, making it impact the main game would be more problematic (since the stone prisoner was apparently not really a dlc but an unfinished part of the game proper I hear).



The best way to complain is to refrain from buying it next time

[Kimarous]

T-Kay wrote...

I already knew story wasn't Dragon Age's strong point,

Stopped reading there.

[T-Kay]

Darkannex wrote...

Well - the dlc was 5.00. While I found it pretty thin myself I think it wasn't as bad as being made out to be. You get okay armor, and hear some interesting tidbits from some characters (Loghain especially), you can turn in a key you get from Ost in the beginning for a better staff-and at least wrap up some threads.

It would be nice if you could return Cailan's body-but it is a stand alone DLC, making it impact the main game would be more problematic (since the stone prisoner was apparently not really a dlc but an unfinished part of the game proper I hear).

The best way to complain is to refrain from buying it next time

True that, but still for 5 bucks you would hope there was at least a person to talk to or an actual quest.

[Eudaemonium]

The vanilla game installs a bunch of Shale-related files (I noticed this when re-installing it), which hints that at least a lot of it was already there (probably Shale's responses, the Deep-Road conversation, so the DLC basically adds Honnleath and Cadash Thaig, but most of Shale's impact in main game was already there).

I similarly found RtO a bit lacking, but not as bad as its made out to be. And, I mean, in Britain its a bit more than the price of a beer. Its definitely worth the price of a beer. Could it have been more, though? Most definitely. But I don't regret my purchase.

[darkshadow136]

T-Kay wrote...

Just finished running through this DLC and am fairly disappointed. I already knew story wasn't Dragon Age's strong point, but this DLC contains no story at all. Less than Wardens keep which at least had some sort of fluff. What a let down. The title already gives away the fact that you're going to be visiting places you've been to before, but seriously. Ostagar camp -> Tower of Ishal -> Dalish Elf origin tunnel -> 10 by 10 foot battlefield. WTF?

On top of that, I already couldn't care less for King Cailen to begin with, but allowing the four companions to burn the sucker on a ritual bed of fire without actually anyone there to care is pretty pointless. I'd at least have expected the warden to be able to bring the body back to the Arl of Redcliffe.

BioWare, put some effort into your work next time.

I agree it was a major disappointment. I have no idea why it took so long to get this DLC out as short as it was, and as far as voice acting goes as little as there was they could have pieced it together with sound bites from the game, and achieved the same end. 4 delays for something that in my opinion a modding group could have done a better job on.

[T-Kay]

Kimarous wrote...

T-Kay wrote...

I already knew story wasn't Dragon Age's strong point,

Stopped reading there.

Yea, Dragon Age: Origins is basically a big dungeon crawler. Sure, there's a lot of people to talk to and there's tons of quests, but seriously what story is there? Ending a blight? Would have been more interesting if they didn't tell you at the start of the game what you would be doing for the next 50-60 hours. I myself stopped paying attention to the story after Lothering. None of it surprised me. Stand alone, the locations are interesting. Combined, they are shallow and feel designed to push you towards your ultimate goal -> killing a boring dragon.

[Maximus741000]

You know, sounds like this game just has not satisfied you the way it worked it's allure on us, perhaps the game is not for you and that you may have to look elsewhere.

[T-Kay]

Maximus741000 wrote...

You know, sounds like this game just has not satisfied you the way it worked it's allure on us, perhaps the game is not for you and that you may have to look elsewhere.

Not really. I have played many RPG's and have read far too many fantasy stories so I have spoiled myself with that. Most of DA:O is a rip-off from other stories. It's no biggie, I enjoyed the game enough to get my money's worth. I am more disappointed in BioWare for not providing a story that is equal to Mass Effect or it's predecessor Baldurs Gate. DA:O could be so much more interesting if they'd done something different to the story. The blight is never really frightening, and knowing what is going to happen from the start puts me off the most. At least give the players some plot twists. Most JRPG's have more depth.

Modifié par T-Kay, 11 février 2010 - 11:07 .

[T-Kay]

All I'm saying the game would be 100 times better if you the Grey Warden (The player) had no clue to what he/she had to do. It's like reading a book when you already know what's going to happen. It's a disappointment any which way you go about it.



The fact that a sentient machine race destroys the galaxy every 50,000 years might not be comepletely original, but it's much more interesting than what DA:O did. (Mako point taken and agreed). Morrigan was right in Lothering. Go find this Loghain and kill him. Just because Alistair with his IQ of 70 disagrees doesn't mean it isn't a good idea. It would also have been much more interesting if the Warden actually couldn't recruit an army and that Ferelden would be slaughtered. THAT would have made an impact. THAT would make for a more epic story. It's like the Darkspawn waited to attack Denerim until you had your army of average fighters ready. and then when you get there you get to kill a bunch of level 10 Darkspawn and run through some dragon. No it could have been much better since the game had so much potential.

[AndreaDraco]

T-Kay wrote...

All I'm saying the game would be 100 times better if you the Grey Warden (The player) had no clue to what he/she had to do. It's like reading a book when you already know what's going to happen. It's a disappointment any which way you go about it.

Didn't Frodo knew about Mount Doom from halfway through the first book of the trilogy?

Jokes aside, I found this criticism dull. A story is not valued by the surprises it delivers. At least, by me. I value a well-told story, full of compelling characters, tons of moral choices, plenty of intriguing background details that make the world feel alive.

[T-Kay]

True, but that's not giving credit to DA:O which rips off not only the setting but the complete set-up from LOTR as well. so not only is it predictable, it's also unoriginal.



I agree on the way it is brought, it's done very well for the most part. The characters are alive and you do get to poke around with different choices. None of which have too much impact on the story though. Having a main character that's basically a mute doesn't really add to the experience. That was a bummer. It's like the warden character is not a real character. I felt no attachment at all.



A story is not solely valued by it's surprises no of course not. I never said any of the sort. But having a story chewed out for you straight off the bat and then following that line to the letter is not the way to tell a story either. At least LOTR delivered some entertaining twists and yea the last book was the worst in the trilogy. I doubt many will disagree on that.

[Thalorin1919]

T-Kay wrote...

True, but that's not giving credit to DA:O which rips off not only the setting but the complete set-up from LOTR as well. so not only is it predictable, it's also unoriginal.

I agree on the way it is brought, it's done very well for the most part. The characters are alive and you do get to poke around with different choices. None of which have too much impact on the story though. Having a main character that's basically a mute doesn't really add to the experience. That was a bummer. It's like the warden character is not a real character. I felt no attachment at all.

A story is not solely valued by it's surprises no of course not. I never said any of the sort. But having a story chewed out for you straight off the bat and then following that line to the letter is not the way to tell a story either. At least LOTR delivered some entertaining twists and yea the last book was the worst in the trilogy. I doubt many will disagree on that.

You do realize that LOTR is an influence to alot of peoples work when writing about fantasy. I dont think DA:O was ripping off of LOTR at all. What fantasy doesnt have dwarves, knights, magic, and dragons? Tolkien didnt make up all this stuff himself you know, even though he is a brilliant writer.

Yes, the story does give you the main objective at the beginning. Recruit an army, and end the blight. But you claim it was so average and predictable, which I think is crap.

I wasnt predicting that I would basically decide who the next King of the dwarves or Leader of Ferelden would be, or that the Mages were becoming abominations, or that Werewolves are attacking Dalish Elves.

DA:O delivered very good storytelling. The characters were great. And there were some very good twists. I wasnt expecting that whoever killed the Archdemon would die, and so I had to make a choice on that.

Just because the game is in a fantasy setting, doesnt make it "un-original".

[T-Kay]

The areas on their own were compelling in terms of story. But overall, like I said before, they are just a means to an end and that is what they feel like. The whole assault on Ostagar is an exact copy of the assault on Helms Deep in the second LOTR movie. I don't mind fantasy having fantasy elements, that would be rediculous and defeating the purpose of being fantasy wouldn't it. Still you can do something original with said elements. The Death Gate Cycle books is such an example.



you gaining allies doesn't really have an impact either. It doesn't matter who you recruit either. Hell, I didn't even use them end-game. The whole assault on Denerim was kind of a let down.



I know I will get a lot of bad comments because I point out flaws in the game. But just because you enjoy something doesn't mean everything about it is FFing awesome. It's like saying you go to watch Avatar because of the incredible story. You don't, you go watch it for "the ride". It's quite similar with DA:O. I was expecting less fluff, less flash and more actual story telling.

[Sinferno]

I read some reviews for the Return to Ostagar dlc and many said it wasn't worthwhile and the gear was only decent(not that gear in this game is a big thing for me)



I assumed it would be small if not smaller then Wardens Keep. I was already disapointed with Wardens Keep and refused to buy any more DLC unless it has the content or qaulity of an expansion. Can you imagine if Stone Keeper DLC was seperate from the game? That one area and quest as well as the one quest 20 minute area of Warden's Keep plus return to Ostagar = almost 30 dollars thats -10 dollars less as much as the supposedly ~100 hours of the upcoming expansion. You buy a DLC that's only 5-10 dollars its not going to be what you expect it to be. Then the next one will come out and it will suck and you'll realize you just speant on enough DLC's that you could have bought a game. Its a Ripoff and a way to make money while keping the interest of the players happy with new 10-20 minute content. Its a good thing for players that will pay for more content as long as its more content and a disapointment for the players that were expecting more effort for thir money.



Dragon age: Origins story was great in my opinion. I understand what your saying though T-Kay. It sounds to me that your bored of the whole LOTR setting and this is a LOTR setting. You want plot twists like Lost. Leiana attitude changes into a more gothed up chick like Morigan and sets chantries on fire and she only wanted to join your party so she could steal all you're rare daggers to stab you in the back with.



The fact your character doesn't have a voice makes you feel insignificant compared to your companions. Thats one of the reason you hear people trying to solo this game on Nightmare because they like the challange or because in a group they're main character feels boring with your companions always randomly chatting and responding and all you have is your story telling imagination.



Dragon Age: Origins can be better. The castless dwarf tattoo's was an awesome idea. It might just be me but i want to make my character look like the kind of person who would make these kinds of decisions but even with imagination its hard to like or even care about your character when theres so much more depth in others. Choosing your characters voice should be a bigger impact and have voice actors interpret the answers you picked for a delima in their own way. Theres some extra replay value right there. You clicking on responses and only hearing one person talk the whole time does feel a bit unnatural. Not a problem for some but im sure more people would enjoy the game if they saw their character acually perform the intimidation abuse then understand why that girl would be crying and giving up the epic neckpiece you wanted.



I'm getting offtrack. The game is good but it can be better. Theres an expansion coming out and the story continues on. Perhaps there will be more twists? There should be since its based off your previous experiences.

[Rocket_Propelled_Grenade]

Well, addressing the first post by the OP only, so as not to fill those post with expletives, I'm going to say that there is definitely story in RtO, and the fault is that its possible to complete the DLC without experiencing its fullness. The DLC is fundamentally flawed in that you can play it without Loghain.

I did it with Alistair and Wynne first. Cute and amusing at some times, kind of touching at others, but nothing spectacular, just the normal voice acting quality. Then I reloaded from my Pre-Landsmeet save, picked up Loghain to get the last ending, and went to Ostagar. And now I hate Cailan. I used to think he was a giant puppy. No longer.

[Sidney]

T-Kay wrote...

All I'm saying the game would be 100 times better if you the Grey Warden (The player) had no clue to what he/she had to do. It's like reading a book when you already know what's going to happen. It's a disappointment any which way you go about it.

Well of course the gag here is that you don't kow what you really have to do. Kill the AD, yes but there's some critical need to know info that didn't get shared with you.

Plus, seriously call it a Reaper or an Archdemon or a horrible Wizard or a Sith you know bloody good and well you and your intrepid band of followers are going to be off to save the world. The templates doesn't matter how well that template is executed is what matters - go tell me how many orginal storoes Shakespeare pumped out in his career- and DAO did a very nice job of laying out the world you are trying to save and how you will go about saving it.

[Appolo90]

What's all the fuss about? I enjoyed my 2 hours of Return to Ostagar gameplay. I just opted to get this DLC today instead of a Big Mac meal.

[Darkannex]

T-Kay wrote...

All I'm saying the game would be 100 times better if you the Grey Warden (The player) had no clue to what he/she had to do. It's like reading a book when you already know what's going to happen. It's a disappointment any which way you go about it.

With Duncan dead - this is essentially the position you are in. Granted you're handed the treaties which give you a direction to go - but you have no way of knowing what is going on at each location or what your reception will be. It is classic RPG boilerplate. You know that things are not going to be as easy as they seem and sure enough once you arrive at each treaty area you are deluged with side-quests before you can get back to the original thread. 

The fact that a sentient machine race destroys the galaxy every 50,000 years might not be comepletely original, but it's much more interesting than what DA:O did. (Mako point taken and agreed).

Actually it seems pretty similar - the darkspawn find and corrupt an old god which causes a blight - there's no timeframe involved - it just happens when it does. Again, classic RPG boilerplate. You have to save the world from the creepy crawly things. 

Morrigan was right in  Lothering. Go find this Loghain and kill him. Just because Alistair with his IQ of 70 disagrees doesn't mean it isn't a good idea. It would also have been much more interesting if the Warden actually couldn't recruit an army and that Ferelden would be slaughtered. THAT would have made an impact. THAT would make for a more epic story.

That would have made for a very short game too. You might as well just die right out of the gates. I agree that losing just Lothering lacked real sense of pathos - but there are choices that you can make that cause disaster. If you leave Redcliffe before defending you come back to a destroyed town. You can wipe out the Dalish elf camp, you can wipe out the werewolves. Admittedly you have more control over the minor plots than the major ones, but what you do does have an impact on the world. 
As for killing Loghain right out of the gate - you're assuming you and Alistair and Morrigan can get through the guards on your own little 3 some. And supposing you do, and kill Loghain - how does that stop the Blight? Not only would you be the killer of King Cailan - you'd have killed the regent as well. That's definitely not going to win you brownie points  - the nobles are there for the Landsmeet - it's not like you can challenge him before that point. 

It's like the Darkspawn waited to attack Denerim until you had your army of average fighters ready. and then when you get there you get to kill a bunch of level 10 Darkspawn and run through some dragon. No it could have been much better since the game had so much potential.

The game scales to you, I think. And there are difficulty settings. This should make it more or less a challenge. I admit alot of the dungeon crawling lacks real ingenuity, but it's far from the disaster you claim. 
Bioware seems to have gone the route of appealing to as many as possible. You have a very central focused game that you can complete quickly and cleanly if that is your want. You have sidequests galore if that's what you want. You have codex entries and historical documents if that's what you want. You have relationships if that's what you want. 
But when you cater to as large a group as they have - you run the risk of not any one group being 100% pleased. I feel that you are very critical about many aspects, some of which I agree and some which I do not. That is  your choice as a customer, but I also feel that sometimes you do not realize the limitations of a game and entirely how far they can go in regards to programming without making the entire experience moot. 

Modifié par Darkannex, 12 février 2010 - 02:08 .

[TrinityDivine]

I should have timed myself, which I didn't, but it felt like I finished the episode in 30 minutes, not 2 hours! But hey, I've spent way more than $5 for something worth less than 30 minutes so no regrets.

As for the rest of the discussion, I think if you all step back and think about it, the story really wasn't all that original or amazing but it's the way in which the story is told that makes the difference. I'd compare it to Da Vinci Code (sorry Dan Brown fans) or John Grisham's novels. The stories aren't great and in the case of DVC, it's full of holes, but the way in which it's told keeps you riveted until the ending.

To me, that makes it worth the money I paid for it.

EDIT: Actually, I should have apologized to the authors of DAO for comparing it to Da Vinci Code lol. I take that back, my apologies.

Modifié par TrinityDivine, 12 février 2010 - 02:31 .

[Appolo90]

TrinityDivine wrote...

I should have timed myself, which I didn't, but it felt like I finished the episode in 30 minutes, not 2 hours! But hey, I've spent way more than $5 for something worth less than 30 minutes so no regrets.

As for the rest of the discussion, I think if you all step back and think about it, the story really wasn't all that original or amazing but it's the way in which the story is told that makes the difference. I'd compare it to Da Vinci Code (sorry Dan Brown fans) or John Grisham's novels. The stories aren't great and in the case of DVC, it's full of holes, but the way in which it's told keeps you riveted until the ending.

To me, that makes it worth the money I paid for it.

EDIT: Actually, I should have apologized to the authors of DAO for comparing it to Da Vinci Code lol. I take that back, my apologies.

Well, I play on Nightmare difficulty now, so I died a few times. That would extend the gameplay time.

Also, I view DA as pretty much the polar opposite of Da Vinci Code in quality. Da Vinci Code had a really interesting idea as a foundation, but the delivery, storytelling techniques, and sometimes even basic sentence mechanics were god awful. Then I look at Dragon Age with the well-developed characters, convincing and realistic dialog, and masterful storytelling. However, I find DA's underlying story as relatively 'been there done that'. I think BioWare was just trying to stay true to classic RPG adventure lore.

Edit: After re-reading your post it seems like I pretty much repeated what you just said without even realizing

Modifié par Appolo90, 12 février 2010 - 03:16 .