43 réponses à ce sujet

[T-Kay]

So after becoming a Grey Warden you live about 30 years and then you die, or you go to the deep roads and get yourself killed.

Now the game tells you that the last blight was 400 years ago. Does that mean they went on pointlessly creating new Grey Wardens for that entire time? Is there a single line of Grey Wardens that continues for the sake of preserving the knowledge of the ritual involved in creating Grey Wardens? How many Grey Warden stock do they keep over the years, knowing they will never be needed?

You'd expect the Grey Wardens to have waned from common knowledge and be more of a trump card in the game. Instead they parade around the world as if they've always been there. I know the game sort of builds on it, but being a Grey Warden certainly doesn't feel as special as does being a "Spectre" in Mass Effect.

[Sandtigress]

Why would it be pointless? No one knew when the next Archdemon would appear - it could have been 4 years, 40 years, 400, or 4000. The point is they would be needed at some point, so the order needed to exist to combat the Blight whenever it appeared.



Hence that part of the Warden motto. "In peace, vigilance"

[T-Kay]

All that is true, but does that mean they kept creating Grey Wardens every 30 years or did some people, like the "watchers" in Highlander keep the knowledge and executed the ritual when they were needed. Seriously killing off people in case they might be needed isn't a good reason if it can be circumvented. According to the story, Duncan had been a Grey Warden for years, even before the blight actually started. This makes it plausible that plenty of people died as Grey Wardens needlessly. A Grey Warden is only needed when an Archdemon is dug up.

[Demx]

I'm sure as time went on, they recruited smaller groups of people.

[T-Kay]

Siradix wrote...

I'm sure as time went on, they recruited smaller groups of people.

yes, but for what purpose? Because the Grey Warden ritual is "secret"?

[Eudaemonium]

Besides which, its not as if there were *no* darkspawn in the intervening 400 years. The Wardens travel around fighting darkspawn, Blight or no.

[T-Kay]

You don't need to be a Grey Warden to kill darkspawn. You only need a Grey Warden to kill the archdemon.

[Demx]

The military has the reserves, why can't the Grey Wardens be the reserves?

[Sarielle]

It's for the greater good, and all that.

[Victor Wachter]

Even without a blight, the Darkspawn are still a constant threat. And while people who have not gone through the joining are perfectly capable of battling Darkspawn, the Grey Wardens are still necessary to keep their numbers minimal, being uniquely adapted to sense their movements.

[T-Kay]

Siradix wrote...

The military has the reserves, why can't the Grey Wardens be the reserves?

You don't have reserves that die without actually doing anything.

Victor Wachter wrote...

Even without a blight, the Darkspawn are still a constant threat. And while people who have not gone through the joining are perfectly capable of battling Darkspawn, the Grey Wardens are still necessary to keep their numbers minimal, being uniquely adapted to sense their movements.

The dwarves seem to do fine without Grey Wardens. I understand the "sensing" part, but that alone doesn't really justify going through a possibly fatal ritual and then mayhaps kill two or three darkspawn in your entire life. Knowing you'll pay the piper 20 years before your time would be up.

Perhaps I was expecting the Darkspawn to be tougher.

Modifié par T-Kay, 11 février 2010 - 09:46 .

[Maria Caliban]

T-Kay wrote...

You don't need to be a Grey Warden to kill darkspawn.

But if you fight darkspawn and aren't a Grey Warden, you'll die of the taint or become a ghoul within about a month.

T-Kay wrote...
The dwarves seem to do fine without Grey Wardens.

The dwarves are doing terribly. They’re constantly losing ground and by the time the next Blight rolls around it’s very possible Orzammar itself will be gone.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 11 février 2010 - 09:47 .

[T-Kay]

Maria Caliban wrote...

T-Kay wrote...

You don't need to be a Grey Warden to kill darkspawn.

But if you fight darkspawn and aren't a Grey Warden, you'll die of the taint or become a ghoul within about a month.

Interesting, I remember this part of the fluf, but that doesn't really happen in the game. All your party members are fine.

Modifié par T-Kay, 11 février 2010 - 09:47 .

[Sarielle]

T-Kay wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

T-Kay wrote...

You don't need to be a Grey Warden to kill darkspawn.

But if you fight darkspawn and aren't a Grey Warden, you'll die of the taint or become a ghoul within about a month.

Interesting, I remember this part of the fluf, but that doesn't really happen in the game. All your party members are fine.

I believe you have to get their blood in you somehow, right? IE, swallow some accidentally (like the dogs) or get some in your own open wound, etc. Right?

[T-Kay]

Sarielle wrote...

T-Kay wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

T-Kay wrote...

You don't need to be a Grey Warden to kill darkspawn.

But if you fight darkspawn and aren't a Grey Warden, you'll die of the taint or become a ghoul within about a month.

Interesting, I remember this part of the fluf, but that doesn't really happen in the game. All your party members are fine.

I believe you have to get their blood in you somehow, right? IE, swallow some accidentally (like the dogs) or get some in your own open wound, etc. Right?

The way your party is splattered in blood and getting hit all the time would indicate that this happens throughout the game. It's virtually impossible not to get any DS blood in you. So either the game is incorrect or that part of the fluff is incorrect.

[T-Kay]

Maria Caliban wrote...

T-Kay wrote...
The dwarves seem to do fine without Grey Wardens.

The dwarves are doing terribly. They’re constantly losing ground and by the time the next Blight rolls around it’s very possible Orzammar itself will be gone.

I never got that impression. Even the legion of the dead was surviving the deep roads.

[Sarielle]

T-Kay wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

T-Kay wrote...
The dwarves seem to do fine without Grey Wardens.

The dwarves are doing terribly. They’re constantly losing ground and by the time the next Blight rolls around it’s very possible Orzammar itself will be gone.

I never got that impression. Even the legion of the dead was surviving the deep roads.

The Legion of the Dead are pretty damn leet compared to most dwarves.

As to your party getting bloodspattered...I agree. It would be nice to see them sicken or get a debuff at least or something, because realistically, they should have.

EDIT: But, of course, the possibility of an Archdemon appearing unexpectedly is always a good enough reason (imo) to keep making Grey Wardens.

Modifié par Sarielle, 11 février 2010 - 09:54 .

[ejoslin]

T-Kay wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

T-Kay wrote...
The dwarves seem to do fine without Grey Wardens.

The dwarves are doing terribly. They’re constantly losing ground and by the time the next Blight rolls around it’s very possible Orzammar itself will be gone.

I never got that impression. Even the legion of the dead was surviving the deep roads.

No, there are several places where people comment that Orzammar is dying, that they can't reproduce quickly enough to replace the people they're losing.

That said, you are right about the companions being fine.  They certainly are not dying of the taint, and you know they're getting the blood in their system either through swallowing or their own wounds.  It's actually never explained satisfactorily.

[Ambeth]

If you look at the life expectancy of people in, say, the middle ages, you will find that men had a life expectancy of around 50 years or so (women had this distressing tendancy to die due to childbirth, which throws off life expectancy for women). So, if you accept that DAO is set in something like the middle ages, then becoming a GW at about 20 wouldn't have really cut you life expectancy short by much.

[T-Kay]

Sarielle wrote...

EDIT: But, of course, the possibility of an Archdemon appearing unexpectedly is always a good enough reason (imo) to keep making Grey Wardens.

Come to think of it, only Grey Wardens can sense an Archdemon. So waiting for one to be dug up is impossible since no one would know when to create a Grey Warden to sense it until it was probably too late.

Sucks, being a Grey warden after a blight then. You know you're going to be a "just-in-case-tool". Still, they never really give any details about the Grey Wardens at all.

Modifié par T-Kay, 11 février 2010 - 10:02 .

[FierachEredasSoulchiou]

Well, if your companions sickened and died from encountering Darkspawn, at the very finale, you'd prolly be fighting the archdemon alongside just Alistair/Loghain. Maker forbid.

That part's just a game mechanic. Alternatively, you can turn off blood splatter.

Modifié par FierachEredasSoulchiou, 12 février 2010 - 01:55 .

[T-Kay]

FierachEredasSoulchiou wrote...

Well, if your companions sickened and died from encountering Darkspawn, at the very finale, you'd prolly be fighting the archdemon alongside just Alistair/Loghain. Maker forbid.

That part's just a game mechanic. Alternatively, you can turn off blood splatter.

I'm pretty sure Alistair and the warden main character can take on the Archdemon fine with just the two of them.

Still having a game mechanic that thwarts the fluff is pretty pointless. no character in the game you meet has any trouble beating darkspawn or is even bothered by the taint. Everyone is so lighthearted about the blight that it doesn't even feel like a threat. Sure they're ugly and they hit you with some random encounters, but overall I found the Darkspawn lacking in "fear us" department.

why not go with the fluff and let your partymembers and NPC's die? You'll stay true to the fluff and you'll have a more interesting game alltogether. I think the Dalish origin story involves tainting by darkspawn and having the Grey Warden ritual being the cure. So all in all you could still make Grey Wardens out of your party if they became tainted. I still wonder why none of them were set up to become Grey Wardens. Like Morrigan said, even Alistair became one.

[FierachEredasSoulchiou]

Probably for the same reason Jowan isn't recruitable, the women can't marry Bann Teagan, and you can't just ****smack Alistair during his tantrum at the Landsmeet.



Its still a game, with limitations.



Although, I'll come back to you on that when they make Dragon Age 3

[DPSSOC]

T-Kay wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

T-Kay wrote...
The dwarves seem to do fine without Grey Wardens.

The dwarves are doing terribly. They’re constantly losing ground and by the time the next Blight rolls around it’s very possible Orzammar itself will be gone.

I never got that impression. Even the legion of the dead was surviving the deep roads.

The Dwarves used to be spread all throughout Thedas, they now have two cities left, I think that's a strong indication of how badly they're doing.

As for the Legion of the Dead, no man is more dangerous than he who is not afraid to die.  The Legion have resigned themselves to death, it is only a matter of time, as such they fight without fear, without restraint, and they do a lot of damage in the process.

[T-Kay]

DPSSOC wrote...

T-Kay wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

T-Kay wrote...
The dwarves seem to do fine without Grey Wardens.

The dwarves are doing terribly. They’re constantly losing ground and by the time the next Blight rolls around it’s very possible Orzammar itself will be gone.

I never got that impression. Even the legion of the dead was surviving the deep roads.

The Dwarves used to be spread all throughout Thedas, they now have two cities left, I think that's a strong indication of how badly they're doing.

As for the Legion of the Dead, no man is more dangerous than he who is not afraid to die.  The Legion have resigned themselves to death, it is only a matter of time, as such they fight without fear, without restraint, and they do a lot of damage in the process.

Those are all facts, but I still don't get the impression of urgency or fear of being overrun. You never see the dwarves actually having to defend Orzammar. They're all bussier with their quarrels and their politics. It's part of the fluff I realize that, but with demons knocking on your door a sane person would bar the door before complaining to his wife the food is cold no?