15 réponses à ce sujet

[mrcooley]

 At this time, BioWare is not in the business of developing or publishing outside proposals or submissions for new games or software products. As a result, all unsolicited submissions, proposals or ideas relating to game concepts, story ideas, or other proposals cannot be accepted and will be destroyed upon receipt.

100% realize that the company couldn't read many of the ideas but this seems harsh and unnecessary, any comment?

[Gyrannon]

Harsh? Yup.
Confusing? Yup.
Sound like they don't want an amateur to steal their thunder? By the way they worded everything, yup.
A good way to lose future potential for their industry? Yup.
Is it pointless to tell us this "warning"? yup.

They should have just let the ideas come in, cause they'll never know when they will need the ideas for future endeavors an reputation. Now after telling the The Fans of Bioware this, I'm betting alot of them are either real angry (Because that is time wasted, few artists will put their soul into the idea an spend hours doing it) or real depressed (Cause there are the "Hardcore Fans" that follow everything by the letter, knows everything about the company, and deeply respect them - some with extreme pride. But now that hope of doing some good for a good company is shattered, an the hope of recieving thanks from the company extinguished). 
Shoulda just said "Thank you for your support, we appreciate the help" rather than "Anything submitted that is a new game concept  will not be accepted an will be destroyed upon receipt" - its like going up to someone with a book full of new ideas that he/she had just perfected, being given the book for "their thoughts" and the artist recieves his/her answer - it is torn to shreds right in front of them.

I wonder who wouldn't feel offended/upset?   

[JHorwath]

A few years ago, maybe like nine or so I wasted an entire year working on a design document. I was very naive at the time. If I knew now what I didn't know back then I wouldn't of even bothered. Publishers and Developers should be more open to professionally put together documents by outsiders to the industry. It's very ignorant to just turn a blind eye.

I can see why they have to do this in a way. They would be slammed with ideas and such but they should have a means or a department to look at copyrited material submitted by people.

For a growing industry it's still years behind other forms of media that encourage fan or outside input to produce scripts, books, movies, music, ect...


I can say that from my experience of shopping my design document around was most places never responded, some stated that they do not accept ideas from an outside source, and some said your welcome to apply.

I think your best bet is to put together a portfolio and then put applications in at the companies you would like to work for.

The problem I ran into was I wasn't really looking to work full time for a company.  I really wanted to sell my design document and consult on it through the course of development.  Hmm, I don't think that's how things get handled...

Then again, my design document may just have been crap.

Modifié par JHorwath, 05 août 2010 - 02:26 .

[A Killing Sound]

I see the reasoning for this statement. It's all about legal issues really. If they accept an idea from the outside, questions arise as to who owns the material, whether or not said game ideas/art/story infringe or are too silimar to copyrighted material from other developers etc.



Now, if one was serious about entering the industry, this could be a problem. JHorwath pretty much summed up this aspect in his post.



Really, the best thing you could do is hold onto your ideas, go to school, get hired by a game developer, then bombard your bosses with your ideas then!

[Tooneyman]

Edit: "In before the lock" comments are considered spam. I ask you stop posting them. Thank you.

Modifié par Seagloom, 05 août 2010 - 04:34 .

[Stanley Woo]

you will find that most, if not all, publishers of games, music, and prose manuscripts have similar warnings. there are two main reasons that I can see:



1. Like someone said earlier, this prevents the companies from being inundated with manuscripts and documents that someone has to read.



2. This prevents potential legal challenges to content produced by the company. If it is even hinted that the company read your submission and released a product containing concepts similar to something you sent in, you may think they "stole your idea." This creates a legal quagmire that the company would have to wade through all the time, and it's simply not worth the trouble.

[Stanley Woo]

JHorwath wrote...
A few years ago, maybe like nine or so I wasted an entire year working on a design document. I was very naive at the time. If I knew now what I didn't know back then I wouldn't of even bothered. Publishers and Developers should be more open to professionally put together documents by outsiders to the industry. It's very ignorant to just turn a blind eye.

Simply put: why? Why should they be obligated to review something that an outside considers "professional" or awesome? They are the professionals, and they worked very hard in school, at home, and in the industry to get to where they are today. Why should they be open to something a random non-professional sends in unsolicited?

I can see why they have to do this in a way. They would be slammed with ideas and such but they should have a means or a department to look at copyrited material submitted by people.

Again, why should they spend the money to support such a position or department when the company already is paying a department of talented professionals they've researched, hired, and depends on to create stories and games? why should these talented professionals support people wanting to take their jobs?

For a growing industry it's still years behind other forms of media that encourage fan or outside input to produce scripts, books, movies, music, ect...

Name me an industry that encourages random non-professionals to produce unsolicited scripts and send them in. the videogame, comic book, movie, television, music, and book industries generally do not. what else is there, and what gives you the impression that this it he way to "break into" the industry when everyone else has to work hard, pay their dues, get schooling, and apply for very competitive positions?

The problem I ran into was I wasn't really looking to work full time for a company.  I really wanted to sell my design document and consult on it through the course of development. 

Essentially, you wanted to give someone else your idea and sit at home while everyone else goes to work and works hard for a couple of years to create it while you look at the work everyone else does and sip your coffee and nod. This indicates you don't really know what game designers do for a living.

Ideas are a dime a dozen. While writing this response, I have come up wtih a dozen game ideas. Even assuming I can develop one of them into a workable design document, why would a company even look at it when I haven't shown that I can do the work required to develop those ideas into a viable, marketable game? Why would they take/but/rent by GDD over, say, guys who have actually created playable proofs of concept based on their GDDs? Why me, over guys who have released mods? Out of all of them, i would be considered to have done the least amount of work. And why would they buy your idea when they'rea already paying an entire department of designers who area already doing the job, and proven it time and again?

[Stanley Woo]

I would encourage you to read the advice columns on Tom sloper's Sloperama. It is practical advice about what it takes to get involved in the videogame industry.

[JHorwath]

Well hello Stan. No one is obligated to do anything. It's a free world.

Like I said I wrote a design document.(posibly not a good one, obviously) It wasn't just an idea. So Stan, in the time it took you to write that post you put together a full design document that consists of a few hundred pages or so? Did a bit of artwork, thought about a target audience, put together a budget, thought about the limitations of current technology and how it could effect the ideas on said idea, wrote a complete narrative, developed characters, setting, created maps, put together a complete outline of said idea, created backstory for every character, researched meanings of names to help drive a little psychological angle, thought of hundreds of power ups for character, created weapons that can be used in the game world (on paper of course), created enemies, an enemy caste system, contemplated how encounters would resolve, penned in multiple endings, devised boss encounters, designed how a character would look, talk, act, and relate to the game world, devise theoretical gameplay mechanics, and a host of other activities to complete a design document.

Hmm, you did all that in the time it took to write your post? Wow, your pretty good.

Oh, and Stan. I can go to Waldenbooks or Borders and buy a book that lists a thousand publishers and submit any amount of poems, short stories, novels, or whatever they are interested in as I see fit. Of course, there is no gaurentee that they will be read but believe it or not some publishers will take the time to look over what people submit.

Heck, Troma Studios, an independent movie studio will take homemade movies from people and view them in hopes to find talent that they can work with.



Anyway Stan, like I said I shopped the thing around for a bit and was told by some companies the route to go.  That route was just apply.

Hmm, here are two of my favorite tag lines. 

There's only one man for the job and he's not a plumber.

********(-omitted for secrecy), your terror will be realized.

*By the way, an industry insider was actually giving me some input when I decided to start the design document.  She was the person that showed me a few things about how to get started.  I do remember one thing she said, though.  Don't go to a publisher or developer until your idea is finished.  She had mentioned some horror stories she had heard.  Now that I look back on things she was really a nice person.

Besides, ideas are a dime a dozen.  A design document is a bit different though.  It's a start.  A template, blueprint, instructions, ect.  An idea is just an idea.  It has no structure, no purpose, it's just an idea, a baby, but just like babies can grow into something awesome if it's nurtured and cared for properly.

Modifié par JHorwath, 05 août 2010 - 06:24 .

[wrexingcrew]

Stanley Woo wrote...
Name me an industry that encourages random non-professionals to produce unsolicited scripts and send them in. the videogame, comic book, movie, television, music, and book industries generally do not.

Actually, significant portions of the music industry accept and even encourage unsolicited submissions - but it's true that the business models for a record label and a game developer are very different, especially now. Back in the day, record labels operated much more like BioWare, maintaining a roster of in-house talent to develop content (producers, songwriters, session musicians - think Motown's band - and engineers). Now, the content-producing side operates much more on freelance basis. Your point is well-taken...any creative firm/company/group is going to rely on their paid professional team to develop content if they have one.

Stanley Woo wrote...
2. This prevents potential legal challenges to content produced by the company. If it is even hinted that the company read your submission and released a product containing concepts similar to something you sent in, you may think they "stole your idea." This creates a legal quagmire that the company would have to wade through all the time, and it's simply not worth the trouble.

I think that's the best argument. Content developers that don't cover their bases as well on this front suffer the consequences with lawsuits, however frivolous.

[JHorwath]

Stanley Woo wrote...

...

Essentially, you wanted to give someone else your idea and sit at home while everyone else goes to work and works hard for a couple of years to create it while you look at the work everyone else does and sip your coffee and nod. This indicates you don't really know what game designers do for a living.

No.  Not give.  Sell.  If a company wanted to purchase a design document from me that would be fine.  If such a document was purchased then the people who purchased it could do what they want with it.  Geez, they could use it line their dog house for all I care.  As long as I got my money then I don't care.


*Anyway, Bioware wouldn't be a company I would even submit the thing to anyway.  Last time I checked you guys don't deal with the genre that I was working on.

Modifié par JHorwath, 05 août 2010 - 06:04 .

[JHorwath]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Again, why should they spend the money to support such a position or department when the company already is paying a department of talented professionals they've researched, hired, and depends on to create stories and games? why should these talented professionals support people wanting to take their jobs?

To make money.  As far as people supporting people to take their jobs?   Well, obviously no one will want to do that but buisness is buisness.  Companies must move on and do what they must to survive, profit, grow, ect...

Someone once told me there is always someone out there that is hungrier than you. 

Modifié par JHorwath, 05 août 2010 - 06:21 .

[JHorwath]

Stanley Woo wrote...

 This indicates you don't really know what game designers do for a living.

Now this is true.  When I started the thing I really didn't know what I was doing.  An industry insider, who will remain anonymous, packed my lunch tied my shoes and sent me on my way.  I'm not an ominpresent being or a know it all, that's for sure.  I had an idea.  Formulated things into a coherent blueprint and shopped it around.  It didn't work but it was fun to write the document.  I still have it and read it once and a while just for fun.  That brings me joy.  I laugh at it and frown but it's a good time.

[JHorwath]

Stanley Woo wrote...

And why would they buy your idea when they'rea already paying an entire department of designers who area already doing the job, and proven it time and again?

Because it might be really good or better than anything anyone in their entire department can come up with.  You really never know.  At least not until you actually see what it is...  serentiy now serenity now... Takes a deep breath.  ahhhh.  Must let it die....

Modifié par JHorwath, 05 août 2010 - 07:16 .

[Gyrannon]

A good reason to accept outside ideas from an outside source that either gives or sells said ideas:

1) Could give them a boost in future plans and research.

2) If the idea is accepted -
 a) Sold Idea: they spend a lil bit of money on an idea that could probably get a large sum of bucks
  Given Idea: the company has a lil project for their developers an if it all works out, all they have to do is give credit to the idea ( "Presenter - Mark Thomas" ), like it would really cost anything to put a made up title in the credits.

3) The company fan base will grow larger, they'll get more support, and probably won't have to spend as much (If they create a "Rules of Submitting Gaming Concepts" to make things a bit easier ).

4) If copyright isn't an issue (like its just given to them as is, without expectations), then it will help a developer if that developer is out of ideas and his/her company is expecting future plans - think of it as break rather than a nuisance.

5) Finally, Every good game has a spark, and if that spark is taken care of by a more experienced professional, it can be turned in to a masterpiece - If they accept it and want to give it a shot.

And in case Stan or someone else pesters me with tons of "why should they feel obligated" or "why risk it?" or whatever dumb "why" question: 
Personally, they aren't obligated to do anything except create a good game for their company that will bring lots of profit, sponsors, new potentials, fans, possibly a good growing series, and good future benefits.
Believe me, I understand & get the fact that they are the professionals & the ones doing the heavy load in all this, but in all honesty it really doesn't hurt to check something out that was either given or proposed to them.

And if you are still thinking "Why risk <insert sentance or word>", its like WHY should they risk doing anything at all???? They are risking millions by working on a game that may or may not be as good as they hoped. They are risking their reputation by making a game that will either give them a rating of 10 or a rating of 1. They are risking their sponsors by releasing a game that might or might not get controversy and hundreds, if not thousands of complaints (Think Rockstar an The GTA 3 Hot Coffee scandal). Why should they risk doing anything that could potentially damage their company? It's buisiness, its the way of the world, everyone is at risk of doing something bad, and if you really need to know "why" - just look at Command & Conquer 4 & Uprising and tell me if their idea was a professional move.  



    

[Stanley Woo]

Cool, thanks for the clarifications.

JHorwath wrote...
Like I said I wrote a design document.(posibly not a good one, obviously) It wasn't just an idea. So Stan, in the time it took you to write that post you put together a full design document that consists of a few hundred pages or so? Did a bit of artwork, thought about a target audience, put together a budget, thought about the limitations of current technology and how it could effect the ideas on said idea, wrote a complete narrative, developed characters, setting, created maps, put together a complete outline of said idea, created backstory for every character, researched meanings of names to help drive a little psychological angle, thought of hundreds of power ups for character, created weapons that can be used in the game world (on paper of course), created enemies, an enemy caste system, contemplated how encounters would resolve, penned in multiple endings, devised boss encounters, designed how a character would look, talk, act, and relate to the game world, devise theoretical gameplay mechanics, and a host of other activities to complete a design document.

No, I think that amount of work for a GDD is great, and I applaud your efforts on that. You are miles ahead of those folks who just "have a great idea for a game."

Oh, and Stan. I can go to Waldenbooks or Borders and buy a book that lists a thousand publishers and submit any amount of poems, short stories, novels, or whatever they are interested in as I see fit. Of course, there is no gaurentee that they will be read but believe it or not some publishers will take the time to look over what people submit.

That's as may be, but it's unlikely you could simply drop it off at or send it to a Random House or Doubleday or Penguin office unsolicited.

Heck, Troma Studios, an independent movie studio will take homemade movies from people and view them in hopes to find talent that they can work with.

Sure, they are always on the lookout for films that fit their genre. But you are giving what I believe to be the exceptions to a more general rule.

Anyway Stan, like I said I shopped the thing around for a bit and was told by some companies the route to go.  That route was just apply.

Indeed, applying to be a game developer is a good way to potentially get your game made.