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[Thalorin1919]

So I just finished up my human noble origin ending with me marrying Anora. I'm quiet excited to see how it pans out comes Awakening.

But since were married, my duty is now to produce an heir to carry on the royal blood line.

The thing is, Anora and Cailan were married for five years. And he seemed like the kind of guy who could get the job done. Did she marry Cailan to gain political power? Did she actually love Cailan? Was it both?

Did he have his mistresses while she ruled? Its just something I'm rather curious about. I just think it would be cool when Awakening comes and she has a big belly.

[Sarielle]

Thalorin1919 wrote...

So I just finished up my human noble origin ending with me marrying Anora. I'm quiet excited to see how it pans out comes Awakening.

But since were married, my duty is now to produce an heir to carry on the royal blood line.

The thing is, Anora and Cailan were married for five years. And he seemed like the kind of guy who could get the job done. Did she marry Cailan to gain political power? Did she actually love Cailan? Was it both?

Did he have his mistresses while she ruled? Its just something I'm rather curious about. I just think it would be cool when Awakening comes and she has a big belly.

They married because they were promised to each other as children. It does seem that she also loved him.

If you talk to her, she mentions mistresses, that he kept discrete. I dunno if you've played RTO (or plan on it) but there are spoilers there that suggest that at least ONE of them (Cailan or Anora) had problems begetting an heir.

[melkathi]

Sarielle wrote...
<snip>
 but there are spoilers there that suggest that at least ONE of them (Cailan or Anora) had problems begetting an heir.

I love how the npcs, being part of a patriarchal society imediatly assume Anora is the one who can't produce an heir and Cailan should remarry.
Who's to say that Cailan could get another woman pregnant? Especially if he has mistresses and no bastard offspring...
Maybe neither have a problem. For all we know, he was so stressed out with all the pressure of ruling Ferelden, living up to his father's example and getting pressured by Eamon on one side and Loghain on the other, that he just couldn't perform as well as he'd like :innocent:

[errant_knight]

melkathi wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

 but there are spoilers there that suggest that at least ONE of them (Cailan or Anora) had problems begetting an heir.

I love how the npcs, being part of a patriarchal society imediatly assume Anora is the one who can't produce an heir and Cailan should remarry.
Who's to say that Cailan could get another woman pregnant? Especially if he has mistresses and no bastard offspring...
Maybe neither have a problem. For all we know, he was so stressed out with all the pressure of ruling Ferelden, living up to his father's example and getting pressured by Eamon on one side and Loghain on the other, that he just couldn't perform as well as he'd like :innocent:

While this is true, of course, the fact that the story is set up so that any potential ruler(s) of the kingdom are indicated to have problems when it comes to heirs makes me think that it's a future plot point. I don't think we'll be seeing big bellies from anyone.

[Curlain]

errant_knight wrote...

melkathi wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

 but there are spoilers there that suggest that at least ONE of them (Cailan or Anora) had problems begetting an heir.

I love how the npcs, being part of a patriarchal society imediatly assume Anora is the one who can't produce an heir and Cailan should remarry.
Who's to say that Cailan could get another woman pregnant? Especially if he has mistresses and no bastard offspring...
Maybe neither have a problem. For all we know, he was so stressed out with all the pressure of ruling Ferelden, living up to his father's example and getting pressured by Eamon on one side and Loghain on the other, that he just couldn't perform as well as he'd like :innocent:

While this is true, of course, the fact that the story is set up so that any potential ruler(s) of the kingdom are indicated to have problems when it comes to heirs makes me think that it's a future plot point. I don't think we'll be seeing big bellies from anyone.

Unless Sten gets to many cookies 

[Thalorin1919]

Hmm, I wasnt aware that Cailan had mistresses, or possibly. I guess all kings cant be loyal to there queens.



If the Anora and the Grey Warden do try to make an heir, there shouldnt be any problems if she isnt the in-fertile one. Since he has the ability to get Morrigan pregnant if he wanted too.

[melkathi]

Thalorin1919 wrote...

Hmm, I wasnt aware that Cailan had mistresses, or possibly. I guess all kings cant be loyal to there queens.

If the Anora and the Grey Warden do try to make an heir, there shouldnt be any problems if she isnt the in-fertile one. Since he has the ability to get Morrigan pregnant if he wanted too.

Cailan is way too much like Maric. A really nice guy who has no clue that infidelity might actually hurt his wife, even though it was an arranged marriage and they know eachother since childhood and thought, as kids, that the idea of them marrying was silly.

[errant_knight]

We have no proof that Cailan was adulterous except Anora's word. He may have been, but the conversation where Anora lets that tidbit slip is one where her entire goal is manipulation, so I think it has to be taken with a grain or salt.

[Stuffy38]

@errant_knight - I think this is the bit of conversation you're referring to (female PC with Anora, PC is romancing Alistair. The conversation is about Anora marrying Alistair.)



Anora: And what of you, Warden? What will become of you once I am married?

PC: What do you mean?

Anora: Cailan had his women. He was thoughtful enough to keep them discreet, but I always knew.

[errant_knight]

Thalorin1919 wrote...
If the Anora and the Grey Warden do try to make an heir, there shouldnt be any problems if she isnt the in-fertile one. Since he has the ability to get Morrigan pregnant if he wanted too.

The chances are very poor when there's one grey warden involved, virtually impossible when there are two. Anora never marries if she isn't convinced to marry Alistair, so no matter what you do there, she's married to a warden if she's married at all. It was carefully arranged so the chance of a ruler having children is slim to none.

Stuffy38 wrote...

@errant_knight - I think this is the bit of conversation you're referring to (female PC with Anora, PC is romancing Alistair. The conversation is about Anora marrying Alistair.)

Anora: And what of you, Warden? What will become of you once I am married?
PC: What do you mean?
Anora: Cailan had his women. He was thoughtful enough to keep them discreet, but I always knew.

That's it, thanks! That could just as easily be Anora attempting to make sure the female PC goes away.

Modifié par errant_knight, 12 février 2010 - 01:54 .

[highcastle]

I don't know if Anora's word can be taken at face value, since she has something to gain with the admission (basically, she'll guilt the PC into not getting in the middle of the marriage). However, with RtO, it looks very much like Cailan was at the very least considering marrying the Orlesian Empress. I have no idea if the two had a physical affair, however.



I do think it would be interesting for Cailan to have had mistresses and bastards of his own, however. It would add more political intrigue into the next game, particularly if you put Alistair on the throne and ANOTHER royal bastard wants to cause issues down the line.

[errant_knight]

highcastle wrote...

I don't know if Anora's word can be taken at face value, since she has something to gain with the admission (basically, she'll guilt the PC into not getting in the middle of the marriage). However, with RtO, it looks very much like Cailan was at the very least considering marrying the Orlesian Empress. I have no idea if the two had a physical affair, however.

I do think it would be interesting for Cailan to have had mistresses and bastards of his own, however. It would add more political intrigue into the next game, particularly if you put Alistair on the throne and ANOTHER royal bastard wants to cause issues down the line.

There's nothing to say that there's any connection between Eamon's letter to Cailan, and Celene's corrosponance with Cailan. Yes, the tone is 'familiar', but that's hardly evidence of an affair except in Loghain's paranoid mind. It's possible, sure, but all the proof here is that  the letters are found in the same place. Cailan probably kept all his corrospondance in the same place.

Given that it appears unlikely that there will be any legitimate heirs no matter who rules, I think the probability is high that someone's bastard child will show up. I think it will probably be another one of Maric's, though.

[mousestalker]

With any luck we'll stumble across the 'Village of Maric's bastard children'.

Modifié par mousestalker, 12 février 2010 - 03:10 .

[maxernst]

I don't see any particular reason to assume Anora is barren, even though the woman was traditionally blamed in these situations. In actual fact, I think that men are more likely to be sterile than women. Anyone know for sure?



I think it's very likely that Callan had other women, as did many Kings. Royal marriages were for political purposes, and kings rarely faced public censure for having mistresses. Many were very open about it. Women would face a double standard, of course, since the Queen's bastard would inherit the throne, while the King's generally would not.

[errant_knight]

mousestalker wrote...

With any luck we'll stumble across the 'Village of Maric's bastard children'.

*Snicker* Yeah, I bet his Pappy liked that town....

[Sarielle]

errant_knight wrote...

That's it, thanks! That could just as easily be Anora attempting to make sure the female PC goes away.

I took it as genuine...because she refused the marriage if my PC did not agree to step aside, so to speak.

[MishenNikara]

Thalorin1919 wrote...

Hmm, I wasnt aware that Cailan had mistresses, or possibly. I guess all kings cant be loyal to there queens.

If the Anora and the Grey Warden do try to make an heir, there shouldnt be any problems if she isnt the in-fertile one. Since he has the ability to get Morrigan pregnant if he wanted too.

Morrigan was a special case...she cheated used magic to ensure she would get pregnant.

[Stuffy38]

maxernst wrote...
I don't see any particular reason to assume Anora is barren, even though the woman was traditionally blamed in these situations. In actual fact, I think that men are more likely to be sterile than women. Anyone know for sure?

Just FYI.
Women become more infertile as they get older.
Amongst infertile couples the infertile partner ratio is 25% male, 50% female and 25% unknown.  Source is the wikipedia article on infertility so it's probably not tremendously authoritative.  Take it with a grain of salt.  We see this sort of stuff at work but I'd never bothered to look up the ratios.

[errant_knight]

Sarielle wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

That's it, thanks! That could just as easily be Anora attempting to make sure the female PC goes away.

I took it as genuine...because she refused the marriage if my PC did not agree to step aside, so to speak.

It may very well be true, but I tend to live by reporter's rules when it comes to true/not true. If you can't get the info from three unrelated sources, then it can't be taken as fact. Although in fiction, I guess I'd be willing to accept two sources if one of them had no vested interest.

[Vicious]

Surprising that this thread isn't dripping with the standard anora hate and bile. Anyway, no proof that she is barren, except she's older than Cailan and in her late 20's. Regardless, an heir is just as much benefit to her as it is the MHN, whom by all dialogue accounts, she desires very much. Even if you don't get one, any future kid by Fergus [who can certainly have children and will] will be fairly close to access to the throne.



It's pretty much the reason Eamon doesn't show up if you marry Anora... you basically removed any pretentions he may have had towards controlling the throne. He tried with Cailan, didn't work out so well since Cailan refused to leave Anora. Alistair was his last gasp.





Oh, and there's zero evidence against Anora, her lack of children could have any number of explanations before you throw infertility into the mix. More like Eamon was trying to put some pressure on Cailan.

[ejoslin]

Sarielle wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

That's it, thanks! That could just as easily be Anora attempting to make sure the female PC goes away.

I took it as genuine...because she refused the marriage if my PC did not agree to step aside, so to speak.

Hmmmm, she accepted that my PC would always be in the picture when I went that route -- she appreciated my PC's honesty, though she wasn't crazy about the fact that the marriage would never be anything more than political.

[jsachun]

Loghain's mages kept a chasity belt around Anora. Pity Cailan wasn't a Templar or he would've tasted the forbidden fruit.

Modifié par jsachun, 12 février 2010 - 12:49 .

[Eudaemonium]

ejoslin wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

That's it, thanks! That could just as easily be Anora attempting to make sure the female PC goes away.

I took it as genuine...because she refused the marriage if my PC did not agree to step aside, so to speak.

Hmmmm, she accepted that my PC would always be in the picture when I went that route -- she appreciated my PC's honesty, though she wasn't crazy about the fact that the marriage would never be anything more than political.

Mine too. She just sighed and told us to keep it discreet. I had an amusing epilogue slide where it said that Alistair spent much time in Denerim with his love, much to Anora's discomfort. Ironically, when I married them and went back the Grey Wardens it said that Alistair ran off with me to train wardens, and was glad to be away from the court. Poor Anora seems to get the short end of the stick there.

[ArcanistLibram]

If push comes to shove, you can always go back for another pinch of Andraste's Ashes.

[Herr Uhl]

That they have not yet produced an heir is problematic, and that people (Eamon) supposes her infertile might be optimism that he can continue the bloodline. If Cailan was shooting blanks, there is a much bigger problem.



And that Cailan had his women seems pretty likely to me. Unless he went for money-shots or used medieval condoms, there ought to be a couple of bastards unless he shot blanks. Which may very well be the case (him shooting blanks).