129 réponses à ce sujet

[shadowc116]

Tom Adama wrote...

shadowc116 wrote...

I dont understand u OP. ur sayin me2 is less tactical than me1 what proof do u hav? all uve said is that u fill ur squad space with tha characters that have abilities that u dont hav. me2 is way more tactical than me1 bc 1st of all squadmates are more specialized now so u hav to pic which character to use for what the situation is. lik samara is for CC and miranda is takin out shields and barriers and etc.

and 2nd classes havnt been dumbed down bc they r designed for certain play styles. so from the sounds of it u jus dont kno what play style u r good at.

Intereseting... so from my 8 playthroughs in Mass effect one the class I chose to carry over in ME2 was wrong?

What changed between my playstyle in ME1 and ME2?

Nothings wrong its jus the classes hav been more defined. infiltrators are great for taking out armor and sniping nothin more. and i read u use tha pistol more so maybe u should try playin as tha engineer next time. it sounds lik ur type of play style since u lik to sit back and give orders

[shadowc116]

Tom Adama wrote...

Before anybody else counters my points, start a new ME2 game on hardcore with an Infiltrator class character and try out Archangel dossier when the blood pack starts infiltrating the garages and you have to close the doors. If anybody beats that section without dying more than 5 times, I will admit I suck.

BTW, I had Miranda and Mordin as squadmates.

u suck apperently...

[Tom Adama]

MassEffect762 wrote...

gr00grams wrote...

Guys, it is very, very simple;

They did not remove too many of the RPG elments.
It is just the way they 'streamlined' them.

LISTEN;

RPG fans like to tinker with everything they can.
The armor method in ME2 is great, but you cannot access it anytime, and there is definitely not enough to satisfy an RPG fan. There's not mods, however effective or ineffective they are.

It's not that it is bad in ME2, it just doesn't appeal to RPG fans.

Next, guns;

Same deal. Guns in ME2 are fine really. There just isn't anything to tinker with, compare, stat... mod...
regardless if you thought ME1's presentation of these elements was good or bad, understand that it leaves true RPG fans without anything to tinker with.

Now upgrades/mods etc.
Again, all CONTROL is taken from the player. That just doesn't fly with traditional RPG fans. Again, it's not a bad method at all, but it just doesn't fly. I farm resource, click a button, have upgrade.

That is not fun for an RPG fan. RPG fans like stats. They like comparisons, numbers, OPTIONS.
The like, yes, LIKE massive inventories etc. as hard as that may be to understand.

Those are usually the reasons they play them.

Again, ME2 isn't any less really than ME1 in terms of 'RPG' it's just how it was done. There is sweet ****** all for us to tinker with really. Everything is done for us, streamlined, whatever you want to call it.

It's not that guns are better, or worse, or that mods are better or worse, it's that we have no control. Upgrades, I don't even know what half of them do.
All I know is that I need enough resources to make any of them when they become available.
Seriously, didn't even read descriptions, because there is no need to.
Didn't read, learn etc about any guns. Didn't need to look at them. Game auto-upgrades them as you go. Hell, really I should have just auto-spent my talent points too.

Again, lastly, it's not that any elements are less of an RPG than ME1, it's we have really no control. The only control we have for the most is in the action aspects, and that does not appeal to core RPG fans.

Neither side is right nor wrong, but it is what it is.

It just seems everything aside the shooting is done for us this time around.
All my guns, upgrades, everything is pretty much done for me, and attempts to glorify itself with how it is presented, but really I have almost no control except the few armor parts I can swap in and out. Like what else is there for me to actually decide this time? the color of my helmet? (which is cool, just really is the only other option I can think of).

You put a smile on my face, I'm glad you understand the frustration of this Mass Effect fan.

Bingo! This is what Im saying.

[AoiDreamer]

gr00grams wrote...

Squadmates in ME1 were always the same if I needed pure effectiveness: Garrus and Wrex for the biotic classes, Liara and Wrex for the tech classes. There's no arguing that. They were simply, mathematically the most effective.

Just an fyi:

Garrus had no biotic abilities in ME1.
Wrex had warp, throw and barrier...

Liara had one tech ability, electronics.
Wrex had none.

There is no arguing it, it is simply, mathematically, the truth.

Liara was the best biotic squad mate, tali tech, ashley soldier. Kaiden is a sentinel, wrex a vanguard, garrus infiltrator.

I play ME1 daily with ME2. Trust me

I am beside your guys argument here, but you did make me chuckle.
I've already stated what's missing in ME2 in this thread, neither game is better or worse, there is just nothing to tinker with really.

Uh.. he's saying if you play a tech, then use those. If you play a Biotic then use those...

[Phaedra Sanguine]

This guy is full of win. I fully expected this topic to be a troll thread upon clicking it and I do believe it may just be that. I mean, apparently he knows what he's doing, yet cannot succeed. Only solution = troll!

[Tom Adama]

AoiDreamer wrote...

Tom Adama wrote...

AdamTaylor wrote...

If you're dying a lot... that means you suck at shooters.
It's nothing to be ashamed of. Several of my friends have given up on ME2 because they simply cannot play shooters. They can't hit the broad side of a barn. And after dying several times during the intro mission on the Cerberus station... they just gave up.

I've admittedly tried to help them... but they're not happy with the lack of pretty much all the RPG elements from the first game either. So, they're just walking away.

Shooters aren't for everyone.
Of course, maybe you could play with a friend? Have them do all the combat. And you make choices? Not that choices (character ones) really matter. Every character is designed for combat, and combat only.

It sucks that you can't be a support or diplomacy character anymore. But, that's just how the game is.
You can keep trying and hope you get better.

Ya, if you claim to not have died alot during the garage infiltration with Garrus's recruitment on hardcore, you are the biggest liar. Try playing on Infiltrator before you claim I suck at shooters, considering I beat Gears of war 1 and 2 without dying (which is a damn similar game to ME2).

It's funny that you complain about the infiltrator, when everyone here will tell you that it's the most overpowered class on that game that can oneshot things on insanity, or so they say.

And actually. If you bring in a level 30 character the game is alot harder than if you're just level one. Have you even played the game? Because it sounds like you're just trolling to me. Why don't you register your copy and then talk ****. People will be more likely to believe you then.

If the game's too hard, turn down the difficulty. I suck at shooters but even I can beat this game on insanity with an adept.

You played as an Adept, move along. Player biotics get the best and most varied biotics, thus the game is more fun. All you need to do is spam biotics (due to the negligent recharge times) and the game is a joke to you.

IM NOT voicing my frustration with DIFFICULTY, the game is damned easy, my first playthrough was 100% at just under 36 hours. Im complaining about indifference between classes.

Squadmates and player.

[ajgoesunlucky]

Yea, dude.....ok first and final, THE classES ARENT MEANT TO PLAY THE SAME F*CKING WAY!!!!
god, your an idiot if you think that!!!
Of course the soldier is going to breeze through harder parts!! He's a F*CKING soldier!!! One of the best ever in the galaxy!!! An inflitrator is a SNIPER class!! You cant go up and blow people away at point blank because thats not what the class is MADE FOR!!!
If you seriously dont understand why some parts are harder with some classes, then put the RPG's away and go play a regular shooter!!!
But again even there, different guns and "perks" will change the gameplay!!
So, yea quit blaming Bioware for making kick-ass RPG's and having them make sense (for the most part).

[BeyondFX]

Im trying to figure out how modding your guns ever really did anything in ME1. Oh that's right throwing a heat sink in  allowed me to run into a room and hold down the trigger until all the enemies are dead.  The only time the game was difficult was starting a new game on insanity, and then it wasnt fun difficult; it was tedious difficult. And then the moment I got my hands on spectre gear and decent armor it turned back into holding the trigger, or as another class simply spamming your powers.

And squadmate tactics? Where was that? It wasnt possible to place them individually and biotics were so overpowered you could lock anything down ranging from an armature to saren himself. Most of the time I fought collosuses on foot because it was just that easy and faster than the mako.

There was absolutely zero difference in gun classes besides how long could you keep hitting the trigger, the damage you did, and the diminishing accuracy. The same thing went with armor, the bigger the numbers on the suit the better and eventually you come to realize there's really only a couple that's worth wearing from certain manufacturers. In ME2 guns are very different from eachother and suit different playstyles such as the sniper rifle with being able to have rapid fire or very powerful single shots. While armor pieces, being one thing that could use more variety in ME2, still allow you to use pieces that suit your class such as gearing towards power bonuses for classes such as the engineer or a mix of melee and weapon damage like the vanguard.

That's another thing that has been vastly improved are the classes. They all play very differently from eachother such as the infilitrator which is extremely deadly with the sniper, or the vanguard which is able to get directly into the fray and blast enemies away with the shotgun. While its arguable some of these classes excel over another in certain areas, there is plenty of proof that every class can handle its own even on insanity.

Squad mates are also important in complementing the class you choose. Take the soldier for example, sure they can hold their own but they have no way of locking down enemies or quickly taking off shields/armor. Where as taking a biotic and tech squad mate allows you to more effectively handle situations. Or if you're a squishier class such as the adept using combat squad mates, you can lock down enemies while allowing them to dish out the damage and with the improved AI they can actually do something in this game.

Also you seem upset that anyone can hack/bypass...Going by that logic the first game would then force you to have certain squadmates even if you didnt want them. The new system allows you to better choose who suits you.

But meh whatever if you dont want to try another class that suits you better, that's fine. I know I didnt care much for the sentinel, but that didnt mean I stamped my feet and gave up on the game

Modifié par BeyondFX, 12 février 2010 - 04:06 .

[expanding panic]

First lay off the kid instead of saying he sucks why not try to do something useful and try to help him out.

Second I never played as the Infiltrator but I did play with the solider first then the vangaurd. I noticed that I had a lot of trouble trying to kill the swarms of husk that were thrown at me when I played as the solider then when I played as the vangaurd the swarms of husk were a lot easier.

Also when I first started to play as the vangaurd I would get aggravated because I would die a few times. But that was because I wasn't playing with him the vangaurd the right way. Now I love playing as the vangaurd.



So anyway what i'm trying to say is that your playing style may not be a match for the infiltrator. Try a new guy that may be better suited for your style or try a new tactic with the infiltrator.

[Tom Adama]

Paxcorpus wrote...

This guy is full of win. I fully expected this topic to be a troll thread upon clicking it and I do believe it may just be that. I mean, apparently he knows what he's doing, yet cannot succeed. Only solution = troll!

Read my review, it was very courteous and tame. If I was a troll, why would I write such a review?

This game was a dissapointment from day 1 for me, as it was for most of the fans on this board. The only people trolling here are ME2 fanboys who have the incessant urge to counter every point I make about how the game fails to achieve what the first one did.

This is my opinion, take it or leave it.

[monika26]

I've played both Infiltrator and Solider so far, and I haven't seen any amazing advantage to playing as a Soldier. Combat does go along somewhat quicker for me when playing as a Soldier, but other than that I haven't died any more or less compared to playing as an Infiltrator. Some things are easier for Soldiers and some things are easier for Infiltrators. Each class has its own strengths and weaknesses.



I enjoy playing as an Infiltrator more than as a Soldier. It requires more strategy and tactics to get things done, which happens to be fun for me. But by no means is Infiltrator or any other class "useless".



Perhaps Infiltrator and other classes just don't suit your style of play or level of skill. However, by no means is Infiltrator a useless class.

[Tom Adama]

expanding panic wrote...

First lay off the kid instead of saying he sucks why not try to do something useful and try to help him out.
Second I never played as the Infiltrator but I did play with the solider first then the vangaurd. I noticed that I had a lot of trouble trying to kill the swarms of husk that were thrown at me when I played as the solider then when I played as the vangaurd the swarms of husk were a lot easier.
Also when I first started to play as the vangaurd I would get aggravated because I would die a few times. But that was because I wasn't playing with him the vangaurd the right way. Now I love playing as the vangaurd.

So anyway what i'm trying to say is that your playing style may not be a match for the infiltrator. Try a new guy that may be better suited for your style or try a new tactic with the infiltrator.

Sovereign IFF level was fine for me, I hung back and sniped. I let the other squadmates handle the short range crap.  In ME1, I didnt HAVE to do that. I could pull my pistol out, turn on marksman and spray to get out of tight situations.

OR, I could ask Liara to lift the pressing enemy, or ask Wrex  to switch to shotgun with shredder rounds and take out the husk. All the options were available for all of my squadmates to use any gun, so if I needed Wrex to use a AR he could pull it out even though he wasn't trained.

Same for the infiltrator class... my choice of weapon wasn't handicapped because of my class, only its bonus's were.

[Tom Adama]

monika26 wrote...

I've played both Infiltrator and Solider so far, and I haven't seen any amazing advantage to playing as a Soldier. Combat does go along somewhat quicker for me when playing as a Soldier, but other than that I haven't died any more or less compared to playing as an Infiltrator. Some things are easier for Soldiers and some things are easier for Infiltrators. Each class has its own strengths and weaknesses.

I enjoy playing as an Infiltrator more than as a Soldier. It requires more strategy and tactics to get things done, which happens to be fun for me. But by no means is Infiltrator or any other class "useless".

Perhaps Infiltrator and other classes just don't suit your style of play or level of skill. However, by no means is Infiltrator a useless class.

Sigh. Again, Im not complaining about difficulty! Infiltrator IS my playstyle, I love to snipe  and play the tactician with tech weapons and ammo types. If I see armor, I use incend tech. If I see shields I switch to disruptor ammo on my sniper or use it with my SMG.

Not to mention the slow mo hand holding that gives head shots up for free.

Im complaining about class indifference, especially with squadmates.

All I am saying is the game is VERY shallow compared to ME1, that's all.

[gr00grams]

Uh.. he's saying if you play a tech, then use those. If you play a Biotic then use those...

My bad, I read it wrong



However, you could argue those selections ha!

If your a bioitic, why not ashley/tali ? that gives you every available skill?



Or if you where tech, why not ashley/liara?

Again, every possible skill.

[Tom Adama]

To everyone, I beat the damn game 4 days after I got it! It was not hard at all!

My review was one of the first on the boards... the topic I brought up is RPG in nature!

I played the game a second time today with my lvl 30 infiltrator on hardcore and got my ass handed to me during the bloodpack invasion for Garrus's dossier mission. I used Mordin and Miranda, I died 6 times before beating the right garage section. I didnt die once before or after that one particular section.

The reason that part is so hard (relative to the rest of the game) is because I had to CLOSE the damn garage door while fighting in short range with my SMG against armored Krogan and Varren. Infiltrators dont do well against Krogan/Varren/Vorcha at short ranges.

Garrus was dying (I left nobody with him) and I was loosing time to close the doors. That's all.

I was very frustrated. Then I watched my bro play as a soldier and noticed HOW LITTLE tactics and tech weapons he needed to use to finish a firefight, the battles looked so much faster then mine. And that is fine, because my style is more tactics oriented, I spend alot of time in the power wheel. 

My point here is the passive abilites of an engineer, infiltrator etc. The first game forced different squad load outs based on what your class was. This game did not.

It makes me angry to see a soldier hack the same datapads I do and get the same crap I did even though their specialization is not electronics.

Modifié par Tom Adama, 12 février 2010 - 04:32 .

[Omega-202]

gr00grams wrote...

Squadmates in ME1 were always the same if I needed pure effectiveness: Garrus and Wrex for the biotic classes, Liara and Wrex for the tech classes. There's no arguing that. They were simply, mathematically the most effective.

Just an fyi:

Garrus had no biotic abilities in ME1.
Wrex had warp, throw and barrier...

Liara had one tech ability, electronics.
Wrex had none.

There is no arguing it, it is simply, mathematically, the truth.

Liara was the best biotic squad mate, tali tech, ashley soldier. Kaiden is a sentinel, wrex a vanguard, garrus infiltrator.

I play ME1 daily with ME2. Trust me

I am beside your guys argument here, but you did make me chuckle.
I've already stated what's missing in ME2 in this thread, neither game is better or worse, there is just nothing to tinker with really.

You are dense enough to assume idiocy over assuming that you misread my intention?

Let me rephrase in idiot-proof: IF I WAS PLAYING a biotic class, I went with Garrus and Wrex.  IF I WAS PLAYING a tech class, I went with Liara and Wrex.  

Did it feel good making up a fake idiot to beat on?  

But I thank you for the good chuckle right back, except I get to laugh at a true blunder.

[shadowc116]

Maviarab wrote...

Tom Adama wrote...

To everyone, I beat the damn game 4 days after I got it! It was not hard at all!

Good for you, were all impressed. 

My review was one of the first on the boards... the topic I brought up is RPG in nature!

See above response...

I played the game a second time today with my lvl 30 infiltrator on hardcore and got my ass handed to me during the bloodpack invasion for Garrus's dossier mission. I used Mordin and Miranda, I died 6 times before beating the right garage section. I didnt die once before or after that one particular section.

The reason that part is so hard (relative to the rest of the game) is because I had to CLOSE the damn garage door while fighting in short range with my SMG against armored Krogan and Varren. Infiltrators dont do well against Krogan/Varren/Vorcha at short ranges.

Garrus was dying (I left nobody with him) and I was loosing time to close the doors. That's all.

I always leave Garrus on his own, never even comes close to dieing....
Secondly, once you have hit the button to close the door, seriously as an infiltrator....wtf are you doing staying near the door? Run away you fool, let people who can fight close up do what they do best? Or is that just too logical for this discussion? 

I was very frustrated. Then I watched my bro play as a soldier and noticed HOW LITTLE tactics and tech weapons he needed to use to finish a firefight, the battles looked so much faster then mine. And that is fine, because my style is more tactics oriented, I spend alot of time in the power wheel.

Guess you never really played NWN did you? Your going to get the standard generic reply here I'm afraid.....TACTICS! 

My point here is the passive abilites of an engineer, infiltrator etc. The first game forced different squad load outs based on what your class was. This game did not.

Ummm yes it does. Just because someone can do something, does not mean they are the best at it.... 

It makes me angry to see a soldier hack the same datapads I do and get the same crap I did even though their specialization is not electronics.

Datapads? wow, not like they hacking into fort knox...anyone 'should' be able to do it really...especially if your the type to be 'picked for a mission'....

And also, if it makes you angry, thats your issue, go play something 'you' think is designed better....or better yet, make a game yourself that works and plays out exactly how you want it too, be sure to give us a nod when its finished

this and just that classes are only for combat styles only nothin more

end of thread

[Tom Adama]

Yup, lockdown time.

[EternalWolfe]

Tom Adama wrote...

To everyone, I beat the damn game 4 days after I got it! It was not hard at all!

My review was one of the first on the boards... the topic I brought up is RPG in nature!

I played the game a second time today with my lvl 30 infiltrator on hardcore and got my ass handed to me during the bloodpack invasion for Garrus's dossier mission. I used Mordin and Miranda, I died 6 times before beating the right garage section. I didnt die once before or after that one particular section.

The reason that part is so hard (relative to the rest of the game) is because I had to CLOSE the damn garage door while fighting in short range with my SMG against armored Krogan and Varren. Infiltrators dont do well against Krogan/Varren/Vorcha at short ranges.

Garrus was dying (I left nobody with him) and I was loosing time to close the doors. That's all.

I was very frustrated. Then I watched my bro play as a soldier and noticed HOW LITTLE tactics and tech weapons he needed to use to finish a firefight, the battles looked so much faster then mine. And that is fine, because my style is more tactics oriented, I spend alot of time in the power wheel. 

My point here is the passive abilites of an engineer, infiltrator etc. The first game forced different squad load outs based on what your class was. This game did not.

It makes me angry to see a soldier hack the same datapads I do and get the same crap I did even though their specialization is not electronics.

First of all, the first game did not force you with loadouts.  A Tech team could do get through just as easily as a Combat team, or a mixed team.  And it certianly had nothing to do with passive skills like being able to hack.  You just think you were limited because you wanted to make your team extremly versatile.  Just because you think you were 'forced' into a certain team, doesn't mean you were.  This game is actually more forced on teammates, to be able to take out the proper defenses with the proper power(although tactics can overcome most things).
 
Your mad because a soldier can hack stuff too?  Really?  I mean, REALLY?

Is this your real problem, that soldiers and other non-tech classes can hack stuff?  Cause that's got nothing to do with classes being the same.  Each class has its own class skill(Infilitrators get Cloak, Soldiers get Rush, ect).  Each class has a power-setup for a certain playstyle.  Having universal hacking skills doesn't take away from that, each class is still unique.

Maybe you wish to argue that non-techs shouldn't be able to hack stuff?  Cause I'll agree with you on a RP standpoint, disagree on you from a freedom of choice standpoint, and laugh at you from a 'but I feel special having skills that the other classes can only have if they take a certain person with them . . .".

And anyways, your COMMANDER SHEPARD!  You should be suprised the datapads don't hack themselves in awe(or fear) of you!

[gr00grams]

You are dense enough to assume idiocy over assuming that you misread my intention?

Let me rephrase in idiot-proof: IF I WAS PLAYING a biotic class, I went with Garrus and Wrex. IF I WAS PLAYING a tech class, I went with Liara and Wrex.

Did it feel good making up a fake idiot to beat on?

But I thank you for the good chuckle right back, except I get to laugh at a true blunder.

I did admit my blunder a few posts back. It does read wrong, or I read it wrong.
Thanks for making it easier for us idiots.

Modifié par gr00grams, 12 février 2010 - 07:21 .

[ToJKa1]

Jaekahn wrote...

First of all, each class has its own different playstyle. To put it in other words, you could play every class in ME2 and the combat system would never be the same. I, personally, enjoy this aspect of the game. It diverses all the classes in which were formally melded together in ME1. For example, Engineer / Adept are the tactical classes. Soldier and Infiltrator are the damage dealers and Sentinel / Vanguards are the defensive ones (by defensive, I mean playstyle. After all, you could hardly play offensively by exploiting biotic charge and live to tell the tale.)

That doesn't stop me from trying, though Seriously, all it takes is some planning, a well placed Area Charge with a flamethrower is deadly.

However i completely agree with this. I've played as a Vanguard, an Infiltrator and a Soldier, they playstyles are very distinctive,as are the armor parts i'm using for them: speed and damage for Infiltrator; can't take a hit, just as i like it. Survivability for my Vanguard, her loadout is best suited for short-range combat. Ammo and health for Soldier, it's all about who fills who with metal faster. And not only can i customise the armor parts, but the coloring too: Vanguard has bright colors, Infiltrator has dark urban camo, and Soldier uses camo that fits the background. I would consider those as RPG elements. Better than in ME1 where it resulted in Colossus + Kinetic Exoskeleton + Medical Exoskeleton for everyone.

Playing as Soldier is definetly easiest, Hardened Adrenaline Rush with Revenant is deadly. But so is Widow with AP ammo and Assassination Cloak. And Vanguard's Area Charge backed up with Claymore or Flamethrower is too. This is a huge improvement over ME1 IMO, Vanguard for example was just a mix of Soldier and Adept with no unique skills, Infiltrator was a mix of Soldier and Engineer, with no unique skills either. The class diversification (?) is much better in ME2, which results in unique playstyle with each of them.

[shyzny]

all that really needs to be done IMO is remove teh silly global cooldown (or at least make it like most gcd's and make it like, a second or two, not the cooldown of whatever abil you used) and expand the weapon and armor research upgrades. Basically they need to make that like everything else, where you have to actually make choices. My problem with this system is just that you linearly improve all your weapons and armor and whatnot. would be better to have to make a choice on each upgrade similar to the ability evolving. another idea would be to have the upgrade system like it is, but make it more like it was in ME 1 where you just have slots that many different mods can be equipped to. Still using the noob friendly "no inventory" upgrade station though.

[Solling]

I have to agree with OP.

In Me 2  bioware , as some put it, have  shed off useless wieght from the first game.
That useless weight was a lot of RPG elements as in hacking the  containers and having to have a tech char with you unless you yourself had the ability, As well as a lot of different skills.
Tons of , mostley different looking armor, as well as weapons.
Now there are perhaps 3 different armor sets, and at max 3 different weapons. But its not only that. In me1 you went to the citadel after every mission and you found new people all the time.  In me2 i hardly went there.
Say what you will but the RPG elements in ME2 have been cut down compared to me1.  The combat is more fun way more fun in me2, but playing it i do miss the RPG elements of the first game.