20 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaekahn]

I think its safe to say that Engineer and Adept are the two most tactical classes in the game. I'm not trying to say that the other classes aren't tactical, but simply implying that the Adept and Engineers specialize in manipulating the battlefield.

With that in mind, which of the two do you guys believe is most effective? You can include their synergy with squad members, but your decision has to be made based off of an entire insanity run.

Discuss.

[mattp420]

My engineer is currently a mechanic has 1 in AI hacking, 2 in overload & incinerate, 1 in neural shock (because my engineer was a medic in ME) and I don't remember the rest. The biggest thing for me is making sure I always have a drone out (oh I have 3 or 4* in drone). Then I look for something to AI hack or neural shock. If not available (due to defense), I overload or incinerate as necessary.



Squad members are usually Garrus and Miranda. I don't remember the point allocation for them, but Miranda has 4 and the +damage spec.



*if 4 I'm using exploding drone

[Awesome Helmet]

i would think an engineer is better. i havent played yet but from what i ve learned about playing some other classes, you only need one of a certain type of ability. engineers have nueral shock, and effective "biotic" ability. combat drone is probably as effective as singularity was in ME1. i havent even tried it but ive heard and seen the enemy activity it generates toward it, not to mention its a moving bomb. i dont even know what else the engineer has. i just know playing the adept means you need to see red. in most cases its only 25 % of the enemies total health. and red is the easiest layer. its bad news for adepts from ME1. and anyone who loved biotics accessibility.



like me.

[mattp420]

neural shock is a bonus talent acquired from Mordin.

[baller7345]

Red isn't only 25% of their health. It takes 1 overload/warp (200 shield/barrier damage) to take out shields/barrier and 2 incinerates(420 health damage) to take out health on most basic enemies (blue suns troopers, etc.). There are some enemies that are mostly defense (YMIR Mechs) but most of the ones I face actually had more health than defense.

Anyway my engineer had 4 ranks in overload, cryo blast, incinerate, and the drone. I took overload and incinerate to the heavy side while cryoblast was aoe. The drone is a lifesaver and after experimenting with it I decided I liked the attack drone more. I live off of the drone and cryo blast to lock enemies down so that I can advance into more advantageous positions. Oh my passive class went in the demolisher direction.  I also have one point in neural shock just for husks and stunning stuff fast (well faster than cryo) for a quick retreat.

Modifié par baller7345, 12 février 2010 - 03:57 .

[RamsenC]

I'll have to disagree and say Vanguard is the most tactical class



Anyways I would put the Adept over the Engineer just because Singularity is better than Combat Drone. Don't get me wrong I use Tali in my squad all the time for Combat Drone, but Singularity beats it out imo. Other than that Engineer can get Reave and Adept can get Energy Drain so all defenses are taken care of.

[baller7345]

RamsenC wrote...

I'll have to disagree and say Vanguard is the most tactical class

Anyways I would put the Adept over the Engineer just because Singularity is better than Combat Drone. Don't get me wrong I use Tali in my squad all the time for Combat Drone, but Singularity beats it out imo. Other than that Engineer can get Reave and Adept can get Energy Drain so all defenses are taken care of.

I do agree with singularity being better than the combat drone due to its damager over time and how it gets multiple enemies but I'd say the classes are about even due to cryo freeze giving the engineer an aoe power than takes stuff out for 6-9 seconds.  It always amazes me how useful that is.

I also think the adept gets the raw end from most people here because they are really good if you take the time to learn to play them.

[Jaekahn]

RamsenC wrote...

I'll have to disagree and say Vanguard is the most tactical class

Anyways I would put the Adept over the Engineer just because Singularity is better than Combat Drone. Don't get me wrong I use Tali in my squad all the time for Combat Drone, but Singularity beats it out imo. Other than that Engineer can get Reave and Adept can get Energy Drain so all defenses are taken care of.

I would have to agree with the fact that singularity is more tactical than Combat drone solely for the fact it can control multiple targets. However, Engineers have more tactical possibilities with the abilities they have. Since most of their abilities involve removing armor and barrier, it allows you to set up certain combination with your teammates, thus giving you an advantage by manipulating the battlefields.

In my opinion, Adept and Engineers are just about equal. They are both heavy tactical classes yet they triumph in their own separate arena. I just finished the Collossus fight on Haelstrom with my Engineer. Took me an hour and a half of constantly reloading the fight. I had Garrus and Miranda with me for full overload.. I am almost certain that specific fight would be much harder for an adept.

Regardless, I'm pleased to see that a lot of you guys actually play Engineer. I always try to instigate discussions or threads regarding the class, but majority of the people seem to play Sentinels, Soldiers or Infiltrators.

P.S, I'll admit, my opinion on the Adept vs Engineer battle is a bit bias, mainly since I am playing my Engineer on my second playthrough. I hope to start an Adept once this is over.

[Jaekahn]

baller7345 wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

I'll have to disagree and say Vanguard is the most tactical class

Anyways I would put the Adept over the Engineer just because Singularity is better than Combat Drone. Don't get me wrong I use Tali in my squad all the time for Combat Drone, but Singularity beats it out imo. Other than that Engineer can get Reave and Adept can get Energy Drain so all defenses are taken care of.

I do agree with singularity being better than the combat drone due to its damager over time and how it gets multiple enemies but I'd say the classes are about even due to cryo freeze giving the engineer an aoe power than takes stuff out for 6-9 seconds.  It always amazes me how useful that is.

I also think the adept gets the raw end from most people here because they are really good if you take the time to learn to play them.

Agreed. I guess that's why both the Adept and Engineer classes are so appealing. They are difficult to play, requires strategy, precision and a lot of micro managing between you and your squads. Every battle is a challenge, yet every battle is rewarding. No matter how amusing a slow motion headshot is, Engineer definately won the spot as my favorite class of ME2.. until I get the chance to play Adept before I can truly decide.

[coinop25]

Played Engineer on Hardcore, had fun, but found it very challenging. Maybe 3/4 done now with Adept on Hardcore, and am surprised to find myself tearing up the battlefield with ease.

The thing is, Wide Singularity plus Unstable Warp is an amazingly killer combo, especially if you've got an Assault Rifle with Warp Ammo to spray during cooldown. By the time you've got some biotic cooldown upgrades and upgrade your class skill to Bastion, you can practically spam the enemies with this AoE one-two punch.

The nice thing about Singularity is that it will sit and wait to take effect. You can shoot it near some guys (around cover, no less), whittle down one fellow's shields with your squad, and once the protection is gone, he gets sucked up into the air. His buddies are all, "Hey, Vinnie just got sucked into a singularity. But don't worry, we've all still got shields and armor." Then you hit Vinnie with an Unstable Warp, and the explosion damage busts up everyone else's protection, and THEY get sucked into the next Singularity you put down in a second. And the cycle continues.

I definitely felt like I had to work with precision when I played with an Engineer. Put down a drone in just the right place, work on the most dangerous enemy, aim right for the head, etc. Adept, in contrast, has been a game of just alternately tapping my shoulder buttons and watching guys fly around in the explosions. (I just maxed out Heavy Throw for variety, as well.)

I guess I'd say that Engineer is the most tactical class for precision ... but Adept is a kind of "wild" tactical class, at least the way I play it.

Modifié par coinop25, 12 février 2010 - 05:56 .

[Jaekahn]

coinop25 wrote...

Played Engineer on Hardcore, had fun, but found it very challenging. Maybe 3/4 done now with Adept on Hardcore, and am surprised to find myself tearing up the battlefield with ease.

The thing is, Wide Singularity plus Unstable Warp is an amazingly killer combo, especially if you've got an Assault Rifle with Warp Ammo to spray during cooldown. By the time you've got some biotic cooldown upgrades and upgrade your class skill to Bastion, you can practically spam the enemies with this AoE one-two punch.

The nice thing about Singularity is that it will sit and wait to take effect. You can shoot it near some guys (around cover, no less), whittle down one fellow's shields with your squad, and once the protection is gone, he gets sucked up into the air. His buddies are all, "Hey, Vinnie just got sucked into a singularity. But don't worry, we've all still got shields and armor." Then you hit Vinnie with an Unstable Warp, and the explosion damage busts up everyone else's protection, and THEY get sucked into the next Singularity you put down in a second. And the cycle continues.

I definitely felt like I had to work with precision when I played with an Engineer. Put down a drone in just the right place, work on the most dangerous enemy, aim right for the head, etc. Adept, in contrast, has been a game of just alternately tapping my shoulder buttons and watching guys fly around in the explosions. (I just maxed out Heavy Throw for variety, as well.)

I guess I'd say that Engineer is the most tactical class for precision ... but Adept is a kind of "wild" tactical class, at least the way I play it.

You make an interesting point. As I mention before, the two classes specialize in tactics but each have their own different playstyle. I think you were right on by saying Engineer requires precision while Adept is more wild. I think the reason why I enjoy the Engineer is because it is so challenging.

[Radahldo]

It's very tactical. I agree with you on precision. I've died a few times mistakenly putting the drone on the wrong enemy. It's interesting just how much of the Engineers survival depends on it.

I'm finding dominate to be very useful for my playstyle. It was amazing just how easily advanced through Samaras level on insanity, using a combination of dominate and hacking. What I most enjoy, is how closely the class forces you to pay attention to the oppositions positioning, and how easily it is to counter.

Modifié par Radahldo, 12 février 2010 - 06:11 .

[lockerlocke]

Having used both on Insanity, I found the Engineer to have an easier time against the toughest enemies/parts of the game (Scions in the Collector ship is a good example) thanks to the drone, but it was much faster with a Singularity spamming adept although I had a much harder time with some encounters.



It was just safer with the Engineer. But nothing is more enjoyable than singularity traps with warp detonations, especially in Insanity.

[Trefecka]

I would say which class is more tactical depends on the fight.

Vs mass number of average mooks (like you'll see for most of the game) I would agree that the Engineer is probably more tactical. While yes Singularity does require some thought to maximize effectiveness, you really don't need to optimize its efficiency when you can usually chain warp explosions to cause havoc all over the battleground. Engineers on the other hand only really have drones...which usually only control one enemy at a time.

Vs Bosses (Geth Primes, YMIR mechs, etc.) I find that the adept requires more tactical thought. Most boss fights have you fight only one tough guy with maybe a small number of support troops. The engineer can reliable lock the boss down indefinitely using combat drones, allowing you and your squad to slaughter the little support the boss might have, and essentially just stand in the open and pound away. Little thought required, since with a 3s cooldown an engineer can chain cast drones to keep the boss locked down. The adept on the other hand, while yes they could warp spam, is best done by applying some strategy to keep the enemy focused on you while your squadmates pound it into oblivion. Not exactly complex, but requires more effort than drone spam

So in summary:

Engineers are more tactical for the majority of the game.
Adepts are more tactical vs the few "boss" fights you encounter.

Modifié par Trefecka, 12 février 2010 - 06:18 .

[GeometricLol]

my first playthrough was an adept on veteran difficulty, my second an engineer on insanity. Perhaps it was the different difficulty settings, but when i play my adept from time to time on insane, it seems waaaay easier than my engineer playthrough. I missed being able to control the opponents, relying on combat drone wasnt very fun at all and involved a lot of hiding behind walls. Was especially hard on levels with lots of enemies like Horizon, or Tali's loyalty mission where geth hunters just swarm you.



from my experience, playing both adept&engineer requires a lot more synergy and coordination with your squadmates, because they act more as debuffers than damage dealers. moreso than the other 6 classes that can just blast **** away by themselves.



These 2 classes definitely feel the hardest to play, but i'd rather not play Gears of Commander Shepard

[baller7345]

GeometricLol wrote...

my first playthrough was an adept on veteran difficulty, my second an engineer on insanity. Perhaps it was the different difficulty settings, but when i play my adept from time to time on insane, it seems waaaay easier than my engineer playthrough. I missed being able to control the opponents, relying on combat drone wasnt very fun at all and involved a lot of hiding behind walls. Was especially hard on levels with lots of enemies like Horizon, or Tali's loyalty mission where geth hunters just swarm you.

from my experience, playing both adept&engineer requires a lot more synergy and coordination with your squadmates, because they act more as debuffers than damage dealers. moreso than the other 6 classes that can just blast **** away by themselves.

These 2 classes definitely feel the hardest to play, but i'd rather not play Gears of Commander Shepard

Just wondering but have you tried maxing out cryo blast.  This power is probably why I wasn't always behind some box with my engineer it really let me get agressive at times.  It really helps when there are a lot of enemies.  Although if you get over confident you can die. 

I've yet to properly try an adept but it is going to be my next playthrough.  I completely agree wiht the Gears of Commander Shepard bit.

Modifié par baller7345, 12 février 2010 - 07:04 .

[GeometricLol]

baller7345 wrote...

Just wondering but have you tried maxing out cryo blast.  This power is probably why I wasn't always behind some box with my engineer it really let me get agressive at times.  It really helps when there are a lot of enemies.  Although if you get over confident you can die. 

I've yet to properly try an adept but it is going to be my next playthrough.  I completely agree wiht the Gears of Commander Shepard bit.

good point, i didnt give cryo a try, it seemed a bit useless to me, probably the reason why my engineer was so hard hahah

[themaxzero]

Trefecka wrote...

I would say which class is more tactical depends on the fight.

Vs mass number of average mooks (like you'll see for most of the game) I would agree that the Engineer is probably more tactical. While yes Singularity does require some thought to maximize effectiveness, you really don't need to optimize its efficiency when you can usually chain warp explosions to cause havoc all over the battleground. Engineers on the other hand only really have drones...which usually only control one enemy at a time.

Vs Bosses (Geth Primes, YMIR mechs, etc.) I find that the adept requires more tactical thought. Most boss fights have you fight only one tough guy with maybe a small number of support troops. The engineer can reliable lock the boss down indefinitely using combat drones, allowing you and your squad to slaughter the little support the boss might have, and essentially just stand in the open and pound away. Little thought required, since with a 3s cooldown an engineer can chain cast drones to keep the boss locked down. The adept on the other hand, while yes they could warp spam, is best done by applying some strategy to keep the enemy focused on you while your squadmates pound it into oblivion. Not exactly complex, but requires more effort than drone spam

So in summary:

Engineers are more tactical for the majority of the game.
Adepts are more tactical vs the few "boss" fights you encounter.

I lean more towards the Engineer since the Adept tends to have problems with the worst mobs. Varren, Robot Dogs, YMRI, Praetorians are all basically immune to Singularity.

I have also noticed Drone is actually quite good versus Praetorians. I thought it sucked but they actually do a good job of distracting the Praetorian, they rarely get off a full beam giving you much more time to attack.

[baller7345]

I lean more towards the Engineer since the Adept tends to have problems with the worst mobs. Varren, Robot Dogs, YMRI, Praetorians are all basically immune to Singularity.

I have also noticed Drone is actually quite good versus Praetorians. I thought it sucked but they actually do a good job of distracting the Praetorian, they rarely get off a full beam giving you much more time to attack.

What is your secret everytime I used my drone on the praetorians they just sort of twitched toward the drone then back at me without the beam stopping.  They were one of the only enemies that I was better off straight up attacking.  They ended up being some of the more monotonous fights in the game since it pretty much became me running around a large piece of cover while telling garrus to use concussive shot and I shot at it with the SMG then incinerate.

Modifié par baller7345, 12 février 2010 - 07:34 .

[themaxzero]

baller7345 wrote...

I lean more towards the Engineer since the Adept tends to have problems with the worst mobs. Varren, Robot Dogs, YMRI, Praetorians are all basically immune to Singularity.

I have also noticed Drone is actually quite good versus Praetorians. I thought it sucked but they actually do a good job of distracting the Praetorian, they rarely get off a full beam giving you much more time to attack.

What is your secret everytime I used my drone on the praetorians they just sort of twitched toward the drone then back at me without the beam stopping.  They were one of the only enemies that I was better off straight up attacking.  They ended up being some of the more monotonous fights in the game since it pretty much became me running around a large piece of cover while telling garrus to use concussive shot and I shot at it with the SMG then incinerate.

Its flaky but I can sort of get it to work by ducking behind cover. The Beam switches to Drone then stops giving you a slightly longer window to shoot. I still have to move around but the Drone does seem to slow it down. It's not a complete lock but its better then nothing.

Praetorians are a slow pain no matter what (one of the reasons I get Reave on my Engineers). Miranda helps a lot. Add in Thane for the collectors ship and it's triple Warp/Reave fun.

Modifié par themaxzero, 12 février 2010 - 08:09 .

[baller7345]

themaxzero wrote...

baller7345 wrote...

I lean more towards the Engineer since the Adept tends to have problems with the worst mobs. Varren, Robot Dogs, YMRI, Praetorians are all basically immune to Singularity.

I have also noticed Drone is actually quite good versus Praetorians. I thought it sucked but they actually do a good job of distracting the Praetorian, they rarely get off a full beam giving you much more time to attack.

What is your secret everytime I used my drone on the praetorians they just sort of twitched toward the drone then back at me without the beam stopping.  They were one of the only enemies that I was better off straight up attacking.  They ended up being some of the more monotonous fights in the game since it pretty much became me running around a large piece of cover while telling garrus to use concussive shot and I shot at it with the SMG then incinerate.

Its flaky but I can sort of get it to work by ducking behind cover. The Beam switches to Drone then stops giving you a slightly longer window to shoot. I still have to move around but the Drone does seem to slow it down. It's not a complete lock but its better then nothing.

Praetorians are a slow pain no matter what (one of the reasons I get Reave on my Engineers). Miranda helps a lot. Add in Thane for the collectors ship and it's triple Warp/Reave fun.

Too bad it isn't a perfect lock.  I'm pretty sure the praetorian is the only enemy (aside from unreachable foes) I haven't meleed to death while my drone shocked it.  lol There went my hope of smacking everything to death.