143 réponses à ce sujet

[Livemmo]

I honestly think that this problem will fix itself with more user created mods. I think the problem is just that there isnt enough 'good' loot in the game. I would like to see that armor and shield from the sacred ashes trailer placed in the game though.

[Ryukahn]

I completely agree. I'm level 15 and about 25 hours of gameplay, and the loot has completely sucked so far. Just about everything is the lowest of junk that only serve to fill up my bags. Now I guess I could still have quite a ways to go before the game is over (don't want to spoil anything so I'll just say I'm doing 'things' in Orzammir atm), in which case the loot could pick up, but if it's over soon, then the loot is terrible from start to finish.

[Gabo]

Again, thanks for all the feedback. I can't comment on each one, but there are a lot of great ideas here that we may be able to use in the future.

[LethalBlade]

Very fortunately, the game isn't about phat lootz. I'm sick and tired of games that shower you with loot. In action-rpgs like Diablo 2 it's fine, because that's what those types of games are all about. Bioware games are about story and character development, not loot. The best loot on the game seems to come from vendors, which I like because it forces to to save your gold and make hard purchase decisions.

[Dark83]

I have to agree with Bioware's view on loot distribution.

Back in NWN1/2 or BG1/2, everything became worthless junk very rapidly.

"Oh look, another +2 sword." Which then of course means way too much cash, which should lead to inflation but doesn't, leading to being able to buy the Sword Coast with pocket change. (My pockets can hold as much as Fort Knox, y'know.)

[Gabo]

Thanks for the feedback. While I can't comment on each one, many of these are great ideas and will help us in future development.

[Ellzedd]

Loot in Dragonage as a whole does suck, level 16 and still looting the same old tosh i was 14 levels ago. This "rare" loot isn't even that exciting. The DLC / Collectors edition loot you can obtain almost instantaniuosly and you keep it through to the end of the game.



I can't think of a single encounter (High Dragon, Brood mother, etc etc) that leaves you with anything worthwhile. Looting is not a big deal in dragonage. 95% of items sets suck, along with their bonuses. The're are maybe a small handful of individual set pieces that are any good.



I could probably obtain Beregin's honor helm, Blood Dragon armour, +1 all stats ring along with the ring from DLC and Starfang before i complete a single Treaty quet line - and then use them for the next 40+ hours of playtime



Imo Dragon Age would be WAY more fun if looting was a bigger deal, more items, better sets / bonuses and extremely powerful, but rare item drops off what are "supposedly" the tougher boss fights. Hell, "Rarespawns" in certain areas would be nice, it's a time-proven successful aspect to any rpg. Even the random encounters get kinda repetitive, throw in some tough rarespawns along with the random encounters combined with better looting and this would be truly epic. More so than it already is.



Just knowing exactly where everything is is less fun - from items to mob groups. It's always the same, every playthrough

[surrealitycheck]

It's actually pretty awesome seeing devs post in their own forums. Dipping your toe into troll-infested waters can be pretty horrible, so the effort is appreciated!

[Gabo]

 Thanks for the feedback everyone 

While I can't personally comment on each one, there are some great ideas out there and I'm sure they will help us with future development. 

[Kreidian]

Gabochido wrote...

If the game constantly gives you powerful or valuable loot, then it becomes too easy or you end up with a ton of useless cash (since you would have bought everything you needed). If we limit the number of lootable corpses and chests then you might feel there's just not enough loot!

We made DA to give you a large number of loots so you can gather a nice collection of things to use or sell, but the power and value has to be kept down so the game remains a challenge and buying items involves important choices. The special items must be rare enough to feel special otherwise they just get lost in the crow and having chests that contain generic stuff make the ones that contain special stuff all the more special.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of a loot system do you think would make the game more enjoyable and satisfying? I'm sure the feedback could come in useful for future development.

I think for the most part the loot system is fine, but there are two important improvements I feel would be more worthwhile.

I think the biggest thing I'd like to see is more armor styles, better / cooler looking stuff especially at the high end. Everything just kinda looks the same and it gets annoying and boring having everyone wearing the same thing. I've kept Morrigan with the same outfit through the entire game for the sole reason that at least she looks different. In particular I never liked any of the helms short of the Blood Dragon set or some of the very high end plate helms, none of which my rogue can use.

The second bit thing I would improve with the loot is quite simple. If someone has gone through the trouble of locking something in a chest, it's probably worth something. It gets annoying very quickly how the stuff in the locked chests are often more worthless then the stuff in the unlocked chest that anyone can grab. It doesn't have to be anything ultra powerful, or even at all useful, even just vendor trash would work, but it should be something that has some greater worth, and makes getting it worth the effort.

[Forumtroll]

Loot sucks because Duncan picked Feralden clean years ago.

[GreenMario]

Will there be thrown stones at me for saying make teh loots more like they where in Diablo for example?



Teh only thing that realyl dissapointed me was the lootsystem. I played Diablo and Baldurs Gate, both games with extreem good loot Systems. 1 Completely Random and teh other with static drops.



But in DA its realyl like others said. 90 % of teh loot is useless and just takes away backspace. You keep collecting teh stuff just to sell it.



And in equipment in endgame will always be the same because there are so few options.



Even is teh game isn supposed to be about loot like Diablo, taht doesnt mean i would not be great.



Especially for counless playtroughs.

[Tsaritsyn]

Blah. Tried to post this and it somehow slipped through the cracks - will give it another go.



The loot system bugged me for a while but I eventually came to like it. It may even scale a bit too much - by the endgame you start finding tier 5 and 6 items just laying around, which is a bit detrimental to suspension of disbelief.



I like a system where character traits are considerably more important than their equipment. Equipment matters on the margins, and the very best equipment is quite good, but you pay a whole lot more to get to that highest tier of equipment quality than you would if you just settled with the best stuff you find on things you kill, and the actual payoff is relatively slight - I suspect if I'd never bought a weapon or piece of armor in the entire game my group would be about 85-90% as effective as they ended up being anyway. May have to give that a shot, actually.



The very high cost of buying good items and the very low price you can get selling them back to Merchants makes it a big money loser to constantly be upgrading your equipment to the best available. It's a bit like buying a brand new car every six months and paying in cash. Depreciation is brutal.



The general rarity of items forces the player to make choices, and I think on balance that's desirable. You can't have all the best stuff, all the time. Lots of games eventually let you reach that point, so perhaps we players are a bit spoiled in that regard. It may be possible for you to get enough coin over the course of the game to buy the very best items in each category to equip the entire group, but I think the best strategy for doing so would mean that you would basically save your money only to buy the very highest tier items, and given loot scaling that necessarily means you wouldn't be buying much until the last third of the game or so. You can drop off grey iron daggers and elm shortbows at the Merchants all day long and still take forever be able to afford the tier 7 stuff.



What would I change? I didn't feel like there was a lot of variety - I only found one clear best option for a dagger for my rogue, for example. Maybe there's a competitor (or a match) for it somewhere but I didn't encounter it. It was also a little anticlimactic that I bought it at a merchant rather than took it from the cold, dead hand of a bitter adversary. But I do like being forced to make choices. Okay, maybe not if my main uses daggers and I have to choose between having a longsword or a greatsword made with my exotic rare metal, but still, at least Al can put it to good use.



I guess this is not directly related, but I'm a bit deranged on the issue of the Blood Dragon Armor. It drives me crazy - I will not have a character wear armor, no matter how good it is, stat-wise, that has the game's logo on it. Felt like he had sold ad space on his equipment for sponsors like a racecar. Fortunately I can turn it off - just requires a little (ugh) self-denial.

[Ellzedd]

Alrighty: Some suggestions from me

Some Variety. Some of the bigger boss fights are supposed to be exciting, the looting rewards seem anti-climatic (disappointing) and repetitive. Why not have different loot tables / possibilities for the main-plot bosses. I'd also like the good drops to jump out at you, all items on-screen share the same colour, most rpg's will use greens/blues/purples/oranges.

I remember my first high dragon kill, a full set of generic plate and some studded gloves with 5% melee crit on them, then some gold. I sold all the plate and the light leather gloves went to Leliana, they weren't great but i'd had absolutely nothing else drop for her. Definately Anti-climatic.

Rare spawns, i'd like to enter an area on my fith playthrough and see something different, not the same bears in the exact same play during the forest runtrhough, etc etc. Im not 100% clear on what mob-colour name equates to in rank but frankly, there are not enough "orange" mobs, only the ones that frequent quests you pick up. Random encounters and game zones could include random tough mob spawns

Item sets - Most individual pieces suck, the few powerful pieces you obtain usually overpower the item set pieces, especially true the further into the story you get. Set bonuses aren't even displayed so without a guide you don't even know what the bonuses are - Luckily though it's not an issue, the bonuses are, for the most part terrible.

Edit: Awesomely detailed set items (Elven set looks amazing) - then you recieve the helm - a spirit resistance. One-trait (and useless ones at that) set items that offer nothing other than a slot-filler is a real waste and a shame. Set items offer you nothing in alot of cases other than the armour they provide. And to obtain the rather lackluster bonuses (also very bad ones) you have to use all of the pieces more or less. There is no reason to use these items.

Items dont really seem to scale with level either, as you approach the last two treaty missions any set pieces you do find are usually so low in tier.. it just makes them even worse.

As for weapon variations.. Well, there arent many. If you want a sword you're spoilt for choice. But when it comes to axes/maces. Hmmm. Hard pressed to really find anything. Starfang > All else. Same with bows, i guess.

The DLC and Collectors items are awesome. But there's nothing else that's on par with these items and depending on the order of your play through and power-boosting stat requirements (strength) you can have these items right away and then use them for the entire playthrough, vendoring everything else. I don't know how to resolve this other than not rushing for these items. Perhaps if the higher you levelled and the more you progressed through the game, the better the items available to you. I know this is true with vendors to an extent.

Edit Level restrictions might help, but then you are stuck with the problem of finding something to use untill then (in some cases) - which can be an issue due to a lack of choice.

Vendor items i know improve as you level / progress through the story, but raising enough money to buy most of them can be awkward, they start to cost around 100 to 200 each and i'd be suprised if you can even raise enough cash to buy them all.

Im not sure how casters fare for gear either, i've not had one as a PC yet.. But i can say that 20+ hours into playthrough #4 and Morrigan is still using her own robes.

I think it is great that you can more or less visit any zone in any order, but when the best items become available right away - Looting becomes that much more obsolete.

I also find that consumables are generally useless, except Mana/health pots. I've never needed resistance balms, or any other buff-consumable for that matter - Nothing in the game is difficult enough to cause me any trouble. Even in Nightmare. This makes me less inclined to make traps/poisons/consumables, especially when i feel as though i need to save every penny for bags and powerful vendor items

All in all i just feel that more variety and choice around mob spawns and loot along with better item sets and bonuses. As i said, obtaining collectors pieces and DLC content loot off the bat just makes everything else redundant, especially when the two extra collectors pieces are awesome...and also costing 4g's a piece.

Modifié par Ellzedd, 19 novembre 2009 - 12:17 .

[JamesX]

The Loot system is a combination of items base stat, materials and rune enhancements.



Considering that the highest damage 1-H Sword is dmg 11 I think, a +5 dmg rune is significant bonuses.



Armor's tier is also a great bonus. At tier 1 I think the armor is defense 14, at tier 7 that defense is going to be 26. The same is true of weapons.



I have no problem with the Loot System.

[Livemmo]

JamesX wrote...

The Loot system is a combination of items base stat, materials and rune enhancements.

Considering that the highest damage 1-H Sword is dmg 11 I think, a +5 dmg rune is significant bonuses.

Armor's tier is also a great bonus. At tier 1 I think the armor is defense 14, at tier 7 that defense is going to be 26. The same is true of weapons.

I have no problem with the Loot System.

I dont think the items themselves are the issue though. I think the lack of quality on the boss drops and the overall lack of variety of items available is more of an issue. Balance however, aside from OP mages, isnt an issue in my eyes.

[Ellzedd]

Variety is an issue, the overall amount of items is another. (Killing a high dragon for a full set of generic plate and a pair of studden gloves with +5% melee/ranged crit). BOOO!



But alot of the trouble, for me, is caused by the fact that the best in-game items are all collectors and DLC. All of which you could be using before level 10.



Dragon age playthroughs thus usually result in killing Mob X for item Y. Arcane Warriors will go seeking that one sword from the Cultist overseer in Wrymling lair. Warriors and dual-rogues will force-trigger the meteoric ore encounter, then rush Warden's keep for Starfang. Massive armour users will power level strength for Blood Dragon armour and then spend 4g's on a Bergin's helm. Casters will spend 4g on Final reason staff.



It's the same for every class. Same gear, same place, every playthrough.

[Wintermist]

CaptBurn wrote...


I will gladly suggest how you can make it better!

Quit thinking that by making 'bad loot' it makes the game feel more rewarding... It doesn't. It makes it feel bland.

The solution is simple. Make the encounters more diverse and challenging so the game's mechanic supports a more diverse and stronger loot set. Then, instead of dictating to the player what they must wear and how they should play, give a MASSIVE selection of options that the _player_ can then wade through and choose to wear based on how _they_ want their character to play. They don't need to be 'over powered' or 'uber'. They just need to be DIVERSE and allow for many character options and builds. I'm actually surprised by this oversight by Bioware as NWN had a pretty good diverse built in loot table with lots of great art for the equipment whereas DA:O has a extremely limited loot pallete and most of it all uses the same art so you always have that sort of 'midevil generic' look going on. Even using the toolset it's not possible to make something truly cool looking with epic feel as the art just doesn't exist (without adding new art in). The blood dragon armor was a step in the right direction, but... well, one isn't enough.

The loot table, and it's complete lack of imagination and creativity, is actually one of my greatest pet peaves with this game. I can wear the same loot I received at level 5 and progress the entire game without any problems. The FR dragonbone set isn't even a necessity to take down the High Dragon! Wait... You can't even GET the set until you beat the only encounter that you would ever need if for!  Genius! 

It feels like you really don't need any of the upgrades and when you do get them, they really don't look or feel a whole lot different than the generic stuff. There's no real 'reward' feel to having them. There's a reason the mega epics/legendaries in WoW are completely blown out and epic looking, it's because it completely differentiates them from the generic fare... And, it works! It makes you want that uberness look (people collect the ones with bad stats even just because they look good!).

Bottomline, a more diverse loot table that allows the player creative options instead of bland, unimaginative, fodder is a far better solution. They don't need to be overpowered, but better thought out. The encounters in the game can be scaled in difficulty to accommodate if necessary (and the player can determine that anyway without penalty so who really cares at that point if they choose overpowered gear when they can just hit easy mode anytime they want to spam through any encounter?).

I just don't get why the loot table is so freakin' BAD in DA:O. Was/is a MAJOR disappointment and drawback in the game, in my opinion.

It's how I feel as well, which is the reason I wanted a loot randomizer DLC, which a friend here on the forum will be taking a look at since I'm crap at the Toolset.

What we're hoping to do is spawn variations of the normal loot, but with added bonuses. Examples:
Chainmail of Strength: +2 Strength.
Studded Leather Gloves of Spellpower: +2 Spellpower.

These are just examples and ideas. Instead of always dropping the same loot you'll not use anyway it's going to drop a few of these random ones instead, but based on the generic design.

Anyway, hopefully it's do-able. AND04 who's looking into seems very skilled, and most importanly, happy to look into the matter

[Teshronesh]

Well, not exaclty, for example Gaxkangs stuff is pretty amazing (best shield ingame I guess and very good onehand sword), but well, there are at least two characters, which don't even HAVE some good drops as far as i rembember: Dog and Shale. Every good stuff is a vendor-drop (besides ONE armor for the dog), if you want some nice crystals for shale you buy them in Orzammar. The overall loot quality is ok, but the diversity is not. You nearly have to use EVERY heavy/massive armor set for your group that is worth taking. Sten/Oghren/Alistair and a Mainchar Warrior makes 4 Massive Sets. There are Juggernaut, Wade, Blooddragon (which just looks crap), Knight-Commander (ok, very nice), Legion, Warden Commander and I think 1 oder 2 more sets. Without Blooddragon and Warden (not everybody has them) 5-6 Sets remain - for 4 Characters. That is just not enough because everybody will use the same items - and will HAVE to use the same items because there are none besides them. Some encounters really should be more rewarding. The sacred Ashes Questline was ok, but I really wondered why you got TWO nice 2hand axes. I suddenly got a bunch of two handed weapons - and nothing really useful besides. When I killed the high dragon, Leliana didn't even have a magic bow equipped - because I found none before T7 - and the first one of those was just in a chest (what was pretty surprising).

[FFLB]

I do feel that the current loot system works well in striking a relatively fine balance between super loot and garbage loot. In the setting, it does make more sense for more lower-tier loot to drop rather than high tier loot. The main problem though is in item type variety.



I think most people have realized that there aren't a lot of rings in the game that are overly useful for all characters. Since a majority of the characters are physical characters rather than magical ones, a lot of those rings go to waste. Regarding gear for mages, more robes would be nice. I found myself sticking with the Tevinter Mage Robe from about mid-game all the way up to the end of the game. There just weren't any other robes around that offered better mana regeneration, which was what I was looking for.



I guess if there was maybe one or two target items at each portion of the game, it would help to make players feel like they were achieving something or reaching a goal in regards to finding loot and legendary weapons that would fit with their level.



I do like how the lack of better items made my own character's abilities stand out rather than the gear that he owns.

[Hurbster]

Well I just finished the first of the main quests (Mages Tower) and I am still wearing the same cured studded leather armour I nicked off of Daveth in Ostagar. Not seen any better to be honest. I don't have a problem with the rarity of the good stuff, just that it all looks so samey and dull. And some hi-res textures for the blood dragon armour would be nice, the default one is pretty bad.

[FFLB]

Hurbster wrote...

Well I just finished the first of the main quests (Mages Tower) and I am still wearing the same cured studded leather armour I nicked off of Daveth in Ostagar. Not seen any better to be honest. I don't have a problem with the rarity of the good stuff, just that it all looks so samey and dull. And some hi-res textures for the blood dragon armour would be nice, the default one is pretty bad.

I agree. it really clashes when compared to some of the other armor sets... not to mention its Mass Effect 2 counterpart.

[MrGOH]

I think equipment loot could be vastly improved by providing more different-looking armors of all kinds as well as introducing more weapons/armor with significant yet unique or specialized bonuses. I understand the latter falls mainly to the trinkets and belts in DA:O so far, but I would seriously consider using a magical dagger that may not do a ton of damage, but totally bypasses all armor. Or a greatsword that doesn't add damage or effects, but increases attack speed. Or perhaps a set of light armor that hastens cool down timers on abilities. The loot already does this to an extent, but it would be nice to have even more options.

[Forsakerr]

Gabochido wrote...

If the game constantly gives you powerful or valuable loot, then it becomes too easy or you end up with a ton of useless cash (since you would have bought everything you needed). If we limit the number of lootable corpses and chests then you might feel there's just not enough loot!

We made DA to give you a large number of loots so you can gather a nice collection of things to use or sell, but the power and value has to be kept down so the game remains a challenge and buying items involves important choices. The special items must be rare enough to feel special otherwise they just get lost in the crow and having chests that contain generic stuff make the ones that contain special stuff all the more special.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of a loot system do you think would make the game more enjoyable and satisfying? I'm sure the feedback could come in useful for future development.

well for one needing lvl 4 lockpicking to find a steel dagger completely blows , make light armor sets or mage sets , there are many heavy or massive sets but close to nothing regarding light,or mage stuff , so something satisfying? nice stuff in those chests not crap in it

[jimmyw404]

Gabochido wrote...

S3RV0 wrote...
As it stands now; I'm lvl 21 playing on nightmare right at the end of the game and I'm still wearing Blood Dragon armor, Warden's Commander armor and using Starfang... all DLC items.

Well, the DLC items are supposed to be powerful and exciting. Also, you have to equip 4 party members...

(STRATEGY HINT SPOILER)

...and  you should make sure all your party members are at least adequately equipped even if they are not active, just in case...

(END OF SPOILER)

So that leaves plenty of room to use the other rare items in the game. I believe we balanced the loot quite well but, as lord Zoeller once said, there is always room for improvement and I'm sure we will be able to use some of this great feedback you guys and gals are giving. But remember that we had to make a game that would appeal to those who like a challenge just as much as to those who like feeling powerful and we tried to hit the midway point in this aspect. 

Pro-tip: Give weapons chances to proc and give items with click abilities.